Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?

Subject: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: GUEST,Marion
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 04:53 PM

Hello all. I'm working on a song about the life of my friend's great-grandfather, who was orphaned and sent to Canada.

I don't know how his father died, and I'd like to include a historically sensible theory of how he might have died in the song.

The great-great-grandfather, who lived in the Isle of Wight, died sometime around 1900. His oldest child was 5, so he couldn't have been that old.

Can anyone suggest a popular but dangerous occupation that would be appropriate for the time and place?

Thanks, Marion

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: Bert
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 04:56 PM

Fishing?

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: Amos
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 05:07 PM

Being a seaman, a collier, a dockworker, a hauler of goods, a firebox coal shoveler, a foretopman, working a sawmill, a bricklayer, a construction worker...goodness me, given the state of medical science at the time, he could have been carried off by tuberculosis, or cholera, or pneumonia any year no matter what he did. It is really a matter of deciding on what is likely considering what sort of work was available on the Isle of Wight 100 years ago.

A

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: Hrothgar
Date: 27 Sep 02 - 11:01 PM

Might even have been killed in the Boer War, like the father of the narrator of "The Old Man's Song."

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 02 - 03:30 AM

Shot in the back of the head by a 25 year old jealous husband when you are 93 would be my guess... ;-)

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Sep 02 - 03:35 AM

No GUEST, that would be your WISH!

I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather.... not screaming and struggling like his passengers!!!

LTS

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 02 - 04:05 AM

Aww Liz...On the understanding that there is truly no "good way to die" When you are driving fast, you are either trying to get away from something; or you are in a bloody great hurry to get somewhere. Getting shot in the back of the head, during or after sex with a beautifull young lady, is (in my humble but honest opinion) a good way for any man to die.
My wish is to die in my sleep at 110 years of age, after just having great sex with a young woman. (but that is truly just a fantasy) I might only make it to 93; and with my luck get shot by a jealous wife ;-)

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: greg stephens
Date: 28 Sep 02 - 06:46 AM

To be a little site-spcific, how about an accident while crewing the Prince of Wales' yacht, or possibly a nasty fall while trying to climb one of the Needles.

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: okthen
Date: 28 Sep 02 - 11:39 AM

If you have a name you should be able to obtain a copy of the death certificate from the family records office and that should give a cause of death, failing that, the 1901 census is now online, that might list an occupation. there should be several ways you could ascertain a real cause of death without having to resort to invention.

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: Morticia
Date: 28 Sep 02 - 01:34 PM

Just as a matter of interest, how do you know it wasn't an illness of some kind?Much more likely in those times, if not as exciting a lyric.

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 11:39 AM

I think that the Boer War is a good suggestion. There were many volunteers from the part-time soldiers who went out there, joining the regular battalions. And not all casualties in war died in action. Very many of them died from disease.

But it would be nice for the old man's sake to get the actual cause of death. We also don't know what happened to his mother. A bit of research could lead to an interesting story.

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 11:47 AM

A bit of research tells me that the Second Battallion, the Hampshire Regiment were at the capture of Johannesburg on 31 May 1900. They would have been known as the Second Hants (as Hampshire is abbreviated).

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 02:04 PM

Having a child aged five, even if it was your first, wouldn't necessarily mean he was particularly young.

If you chase around on the net's genealogical sites I wouldn't be surprised if you mightn't actually be able to find a record of the death certificate somewhere.

Here is a site for the 1901 UK census - though I think the tight-fisted sods charge for some services. But I'm sure one way and another you get information about life in the Isle of Wight in 1900. It was one of Queen Victoria's favourite places - perhaps he got run over by a royal carriage...Most likely a farmer I'd imagine, and that can be dangerous enough.

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: GUEST,cookieless vectis
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 06:26 PM

He probably fished if he lived near the coast.
Most people died by falling down the stairs in those days.
The majority of islanders earned their living by farming until after WW2 so he could have been gored by a bull or been killed (shot) by a rich twit whilst beating for game at a shooting party.
Most people then could not swim so he may have fallen off the Solent ferry to Southampton, Portsmouth or Lymington.
I can't remember the exact dates but there were a number of flu epidemics that killed loads of poorer folk in the early 1900's.
He could have been a crewman of a lifeboat and died valliantly durin a stormy rescue of a wrecked ship.
I would check the census like Kevin suggested and see if the family are in there, this would give you their trades which might suggest a suitable death.
Good luck

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 07:52 PM

I don't think you could trace an individual from the census; but a birth certificate would give the trade of the father of a child; and a death certifucate would give a cause of death.

And here is a site that might help - The Isle of Wight History Centre (Google is amazing!)

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Sep 02 - 08:27 PM

And more specifically Isle of Wight Family History Society

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Sep 02 - 01:38 AM

Over here you can trace an individual by the census from 1860 on when all persons in a household were listed by name, age, "colour," whether free or slave, occupation, country of birth and country of parents' birth, or it may have been just the father's on that last bit. From there it is usually easier to follow any of the children listed every ten years and see where they'd got up to...don't know if yours is like that or not, though.

Mortuary records are helpful on cause of death, too, as well as cemetery records, sometimes.

There were two great influenza epidemics in 1918 and 1923; I lost great-grandparents to both.

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: GUEST,Marion
Date: 30 Sep 02 - 03:25 PM

Thanks for the input all.

Faling down the stairs, Vectis?

Marion

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: GUEST,Mad Axe Murderer
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 10:58 AM

How about eaten by a dinosaur?

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: vectis
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 03:38 PM

Sorry it's boring but true. The commonest cause of death in Europe from the middle ages until recently was falling down stairs/steps/off ladders.

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 04:30 PM

Since most people lived on the ground floor, I doubt that statistic, especially if it's cause of death, rather than cause of "death by accident". I'd think up until a few generations back the most common cause of death in adulthood would have been childbirth - though obviously that wouldn't apply here.

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 06:57 PM

Maybe he fell down the whorehouse steps trying to run away without paying?

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 07:03 PM

Fire?

~S~

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: okthen
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 02:02 AM

what was the name of this poor unfortunate soul?Full name and names of children ages etc.

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: Marion
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 04:37 PM

Okthen, I know the name of the great-grandfather (my song's hero, the one who came to Canada) and his descendants but not his parents' or siblings' names. I plan to follow McGrath's suggestions for searching, but if you have some access to info that you're offering me, I'll PM you with the name. Thanks.

Vectis, so what cause of death eventually beat out falling downstairs? Slipping in the shower?

Be careful everybody,

Marion

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: vectis
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 05:43 PM

Traffic accidents, including bicycles, motorcycles, horses and motor vehicles probably.
Kevin might scoff but, straight up, it's true.

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: Micca
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 06:10 PM

Tetanus, blood poisoning/septicemia or shock from trauma after simple accidents like a broken limb, drowning, in the sea or Oedema(on dry land) take yer pick.

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: Gareth
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 06:48 PM

Presumably that excludes being fallen of a ladder or scaffold with a rope around yer neck.
Gareth

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 07:21 PM

Check out the Burial registers of your local church, usually available on written request or by appointment at the local Records office.. Most of the later entries (1880's onwards) will give some short reason for death - there are some interesting ones there and some really quite commonplace reasons too... Falling off a ladder or down stairs wasn't that hard because let's face it, how many Tudor bungalows have you seen around? Think about it.

LTS

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: Pneumony
Date: 03 Oct 02 - 08:53 AM

SORRY! BUT WHO CARES??????????????????????

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: okthen
Date: 03 Oct 02 - 10:54 AM

Only the living relatives as the deceased have turned to

DUST PNEUEMONY

I'll get me coat

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: Teribus
Date: 03 Oct 02 - 11:04 AM

Hi Vectis,

As to Kevin's rational for doubting the statistic you quoted above, I would venture that even if they was all livin' in 'ovels ( an' they was the lucky ones), like he fondly imagines, there are a whole host of jobs that involve climbing ladders, albeit that the tumbler, in person might be an' 'ovel dweller.

LTS - Liked the crack about Tudor Bungalows!! LOL!!!!

Another thing that has just struck me is this. If Kevin's candidate for most common cause of death is true, looking at it one way, there would be nobody here. Oh I see it's only the Mother that dies.

Guest Marion:

How about a Railroad worker - found this intro to a book about Isle of Wight Railways, when I went looking after I had the idea.

"Born with hopes of becoming the main, if not only, railway in the Isle of Wight, this history of the Isle of Wight Railway has almost everything. Victorian entrepreneurs tried to build their dream railway only to become embroiled in a financial crisis that almost bankrupted their fledgling company. Accidents, typical of Britain`s railways at the time, pepper the history, while the inevitable staff problems and infighting with other railways in the Island added spice to the proceedings."

Lots of scope for built in skullduggery in that lot.

Good luck with the project anyway!!!

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 03 Oct 02 - 11:20 AM

Died when a hemorrhoid broke free and lodged in hisheart.

Either that or he died in a pie eating contest----------when the cow sat on him.

;-)

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 03 Oct 02 - 11:40 AM

What about getting trampled to death by the pony in the treadmill, when he went to get a bucket of water at Carisbrook Castle ?

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: GUEST,vectis sans cookie.
Date: 03 Oct 02 - 05:27 PM

Donkey in the treadmill as I remember.

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Oct 02 - 08:13 PM

And that was after they stopped using (usually French) prisoners.....

LTS

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Oct 02 - 08:38 PM

Might have been a warder at Parkhurst Jail on the Island and killed in a break-out...

As for the falling down stairs, I make it a point of principle never to believe anything that strikes me as unlikely which I come across on the net, unless the source of the information is given. And all my instincts tell me that most people in most times don't die in accidents, they die of various forms of illness (including those related to malnutrition etc.)

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 04 Oct 02 - 06:27 AM

Your instinct is spot on, McGrath. There is no statistic even remotely similar to what vectis has posted. 'Number one cause of accidental death', that's possible (I haven't checked that) but without the word 'accidental' in there, it is simply wrong.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: vectis
Date: 04 Oct 02 - 07:35 AM

Sorry I've checked back and realised that I left out the crucial word

accidental.

Wolfgang's right. I did mean to trype...commonest cause of accidental/sudden death was:-

falling down stairs

remembering that a lot of stairs in them days were identical to todays ladders.

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Oct 02 - 09:48 AM

Well that seems a lot more likely. After all they didn't have cars and electric power in those days. And it'd tie in with the way we talk about illness as "falling ill".

But even before motor cars people got run over frequently enough - though in 1900 it would have been quite possible to be run over by one of those damnable infernal combustion engines that were appearing on the roads. Possibly even a royal one, since Queen Victoria had a favourite residence on the Isle, Osborne House (which is where she died in 1901.)

Subject: RE: Good way to die in I.of Wight in 1900?
From: Marion
Date: 04 Oct 02 - 05:17 PM

Like McGrath, I found Vectis' first claim about falling downstairs hard to believe, though I can't offer any statistics to the contrary.

But it seems to me that there's an inherent lack of clarity in such a discussion because you have to decide how much to group similar causes of death together and how much to consider them on their own. I mean, maybe "falling off things" was more common than any one disease, but disease in general would be more common than falling. And there's more than one way for a woman to die in childbirth - that's a grouping too.

I remember seeing a commercial claiming that more Americans die because of cigarettes each year than from drunk driving accidents, murder, and suicide combined. But of course there's more than one way for cigarettes to kill you.

Be careful anyway everybody,
Marion