Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals

Subject: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 02:13 PM

I know Follow the Drinking Gourd... are there other songs that have something to say about the history of those who call themselves African-Americans that aren't"negro spirituals?" I need a list, preferably with lyrics, especially those that can be sung by elementary-school-ged children (5-10 or so). Thanks, all!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 02:16 PM

While we're at it, is there a difference between a "spiritual" and a "hymn?"

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: MMario
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 02:18 PM

Mrzzy - do you have this link?

url=http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/award97/rpbhtml/aasmhome.html

African-American Sheet Music 1850-1920

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: MMario
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 02:19 PM

re: difference - not much

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 02:51 PM

Links to all of these are in the SPIRITUALS PERMATHREAD.

Ain't No More Cane
All De Friend I Had Is Dead And Gone
Death, Oh Death
Green Sally Up Field Song
Hard Times In Ol' Virginia
I Am A-Trouble In De Mind
I Can't Stay Away (I Wish I Had Died In Egypt Land)
Is Massa Gwine Sell Us Tomorrow
Many T'ousand Gone
Motherless Child Sees A Hard Time

OK, Mrr, that's from just the first half of the index of links in the permathread. You can look throough the second half and find more.... there are a lot of good discussions even in the ones that are "spiritual," about the history. And the history DID include spirituals, so....

There are also good links in the permathread that are links to all sorts of non-spiritual stuff.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 02:55 PM

Also in the permathread, go there if you want to use the links:

Hymns/spirituals: What are authentic African-American Spirituals?
CLICK HERE for History of Spirituals.

How do spirituals relate to social change movements?
CLICK HERE for Gospel Origin-- Civil Rights & Labor Songs.

Did the blues spring from spirituals?
CLICK HERE for Blues Related to Spirituals.
CLICK HERE for Gary Davis Songs.

Where can I learn more about Spirituals, online?
CLICK HERE for Links on Spirituals.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 03:21 PM

Hard to find songs in which Negros sang about history directly. There are many songs in which they compare their condition to that of their white masters, or, later, whites in general.

Henry Clay Work's Kingdom Coming (Year of Jubilo) was revised in many ways by black folk singers and can be considered a song about history.

Songs about conditions or comparisons include all the hundreds of "just the same" verses:
White gal rides in automobile,
Yellow gal does the same,
Black gal rides in an old ox cart
But she gets there just the same.


The blue jay has the wings so blue,
The butterfly has the same,
The bed bug ain't got no wings at all,
But he gets there just the same.

Also many little rhymes:
Down in the hollow 'pon my knees,
Prayin' to the Lord to send me cheese.

Spirituals once were defined as the old slavery time songs, found in Allen, etc. John W. Work recognized three forms; call and response, the slow, sustained long phrase melody, and syncopated, segmented melody. Hymns were composed pieces, by whites, following strict European meters. The distinction has become blurred by modern revisionists. Almost any religious song is now called "spiritual."

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 03:29 PM

Thread 48667- Kingdom Coming: Kingdom

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 06:55 PM

AKA Year of Jubilo.

Jubilo (Jubilee) and the Kingdom are both Biblical references. The song implies that for such things to come to pass as are indicated in the song, either the Second Coming of Christ has arrived or a Jubilee Year has been declared, or both. The idea is that these wold happen before massa would do/act as described.

Great tune, though.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 08:27 PM

Susan-
Hate to disagree, but the Year of De Jubilo refers to emancipation. Work was a devout Abolitionist.

Subject: Lyr Add: HARVEST SONG
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 08:27 PM

Life was too close for blacks to be much concerned about history in our sense. Just as the poor whites, things immediate and close to home were sung about, such as:

HARVEST SONG

Las' year wuz a good crop year
An' we raised beans and 'maters.
We didn't make much cotton an' co'n;
But, goodness life, de taters!

You can plow dat ole gray hoss,
I'se gwineter plow dat mule;
An' when we's geddered in de crops,
I'se gwine down to see Julie.

I hain't grineter wo'k on de railroad,
I hates to wo'k on de fahm.
I jes wants to set in de cool shade,
Wid my head on my Julie's ahm.

You sing Lou an' I'll swing Sue.
Dere hain't no diffunce 'tween dese two.
You swing Lou, I'll swing my beau;
I'se gwineter buy my gal red calico.

From Thomas W. Talley, Negro Folk Rhymes. rev. ed. These verses used in several songs. Also in the songs of the southern whites.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 08:38 PM

There are a number of songs about the Civil War in dialect, but those I have seen are overtly patriotic white and/or minstrel efforts. Work succeeded in putting the Negro feelings about the possibility of freedom into these terms, thus reaching a large audience, black as well as white. It is heads above most of the others.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 09:17 PM

One place I'd start is the music of Leadbelly (Huddie Ledbetter). He does lots of kids songs. If you need details let me know. He does lots of African-American folk songs. There are some history lesson type songs:

"Cotton Song," WORK-

"We Shall Be Free," EMANCIPATION-

"Bourgeois Blues" STATUS-

"Hitler Song" WWII


Let me know if you need any more help,

-Richie

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: wysiwyg
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 09:31 PM

Dick, that meaning is of course the point of the song, but the phrasing of it is Biblical.

~S~

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Oct 02 - 11:22 PM

The words Kingdom and Jubilo in the chorus may be biblical references, but they are presented in burlesque. I can't see that the song is in biblical terms.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 12:31 AM

Mrrzy is very specific here that she wants songs minus any religious overtone at all. Given her past postings, I'm letting her know this one will probably not fit her bill. Let it go, please.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 03:17 PM

I'll look for those Leadbelly ones, thanks!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 03:23 PM

Also, I'm not looking for songs ABOUT history, necessarily, just those that illustrate it without being spirituals. "Hushabye" or "All the pretty little horses" would fit the bill - the line "way down yonder in the meadow, poor little baby crying mama" is supposed to be the lament of the slave nurse being forced to neglect her own child to care for Massa's baby. That says something about their history, but isn't a spiritual.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 03:31 PM

Particular questions: Are there any sea chanteys about being on the ships as cargo? Are there any songs about the religions they left behind, usually animism (or possibly Islam, Christianity being the slavers' religion, repudiated by a lot of the black Americans I know for that very reason)? Are there any songs like No more auction block for me about being sold away from one's family, or having one's family sold away from one? Are there any other underground railroad songs besides Follow the Drinking Gourd? What about the movie Roots - did it have a soundtrack that would fit, I can't seem to find anything musical about it?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 03:38 PM

Mrr, with all due respect, USE THE LINKS in the permathread that will take you to many useful sources which will lead you to still more. We already DID a lot of the work of finding things-- and it's all there at your disposal. In the links we found and collected, there are discussions of all kinds of stuff. It's not all religious. Please, look around in there.

What you will find is that spirituality (all forms) is so woven into the black experience, and was all along, that to look at it without considering that is to try to discuss Native American history (and how it was experienced) without reference to their sense of the Great Spirit permeating all things.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 03:42 PM

Yes, I've looked at the links, and sorry, I should have said Thanks! Also, note that (news to me) No more auction block is considered a spiritual, even though there is no mention anywhere of anything supernatural - so what makes it a spiritual, eh? AFTER looking at the links I was wondering about my specific questions, as I didn't find those particular songs there. Sorry! You guys are great, didn't mean to seem unappreciative!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 04:39 PM

Around the world, the whole body of song of that period and culture is often known as "spirituals"-- so we kept it quite broad. Most people studying them nowadays are looking for the folk and historical value, not the religious expression; the interest in religion has brought a group of well-known spirituals into hymnals, but beyond that group most people are not primarily looking for worship music when they pick up a songbook of spirituals, or share them around a campfire at a festival.

We tossed in anything that was part of the slave tradtion, because the verses so often float back and forth between the songs so often. It might be about work one day, or God the next, the way they used the music to get through the day. Also, even the ones that sound totally religious were also used in the context of code language under the white bosses' noses. In addition, even a "secular" song (like what we know as blues) awas, to many, a form of prayer, where even if no deity is mentioned, the lamentations are felt prayerfully.

Of course, steering around any mention of God, in a school setting, is awful tricky these days, even in the interest of honest history.

It would help if you said more about what you are trying to do, in what setting and with what goal. I have a one-page songsheet I could send you, of sample spirituals, that lays out the opportunity to make up one's own verses like they used to do in the fields on a long workday. I may have some other resources too-- work songs for instance that appear in one of my songbooks-- that I could scan and e-mail you. But I don't know what you are trying to DO with these, so I would not be sure what to choose.

Assume you looked at DT keywords to see what might be in there to find?

~Susan

Subject: Lyr Add: MAMMY, IS MASSA GWINE TO SELL ME TOMORROW
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 05:04 PM

I think Mrrzy can speak for herself. It is not easy to find what she wants in the welter of material that has been posted, mostly spirituals and gospel. Here is one about being sold away from Talley, "Negro Folk Songs.":

MAMMY, IS MASSA GWINE TO SELL ME TOMORROW?

Mammy, is masser gwine to sell me tomorrow?
Yes, yes, yes.
(Repeat three times)
Then water and pray.

Mammy, is Masser gwine to sell me down Georgia?
Yes, yes, yes.
(Repeat three times)
Then water and pray.

Mammy, oh farewell, I will meet you in Heaben.
Yes, yes, yes.
(Repeat three times) Oh, water and pray.
There are one or two similar songs. Songs by whites of the time of Foster are the best known expressions of the loss and sorrow caused by these separations.

Underground songs supposedly giving directions are hard to find. There is one, I can't remember the title, which perhaps(?) gives a sketchy means of following a stream, take a particular branch, and then go on to another branch. It has been discussed in Mudcat, but I can't find it- perhaps someone has made a note of it.
The need for such songs is doubtful- the location of the next safe haven was apparently all that was passed on to the escapees. At that site, they would receive directions to the next one.
Other religions? Perhaps some of the songs associated with the supernatural that still survive in Louisiana, but the meanings have become mixed up with Catholicism. In Jamaica, the Johnkannaus (John Canoe festival) has roots in African beliefs (it also was present in North Carolina but apparently died out at the time of the Civil War). The revival and growth of Muslim beliefs among blacks is a 20th century development.

Roots was partly fictional (a docudrama). Nevertheless, it may be useful. Unfortunately, the disruption in the lives of blacks brought into slavery was so complete that their roots were lost. Some descendents have been lucky enough to find plantation and other records that allow them to find their probable ancestral area in Africa.
Chanteys? Undoubtedly the blackbird sailors did sing about their cargos, but where to find them, if they did, indeed survive?

Finally, to get informed comment, I recommend Dena J. Epstein, "Sinful Tunes and Spirituals, Black Folk Music to the Civil War," 1977, Univ. Illinois Press.

One important song with a biblical background is "Go Down Moses," which developed into a freedom song in 1861, the song of the "contrabands."
The story of Captain Cuthbert who was taken by Union soldiers as he came from St. Helena Island with a number of his slaves is one that schoolchildren would like, but it is seldom told. His freed slaves sang;
De northmen dey's got massa now,
De northmen dey's got massa now,
De northmen dey's got massa now,
Glory Hallelujah!
A newspaper account said the freed slaves made up verses as they went along (each line sung thrice, followed by Hallelujah!);

O Massa a rebel, we row him to prison, Hallelujah!
Massa no whip us any more, Hallelujah
We have no massa now, we free, Hallelujah
We have the Yankees, who no run away, Hallelujah
O! All our old massas run away, Hallelujah
O! Massa going to prison now, Hallelujah!

The stories of "Go Down Moses," and that about Captain Cuthbert, are told in "Sinful Tunes and Spirituals."

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 05:21 PM

Guest, the very well-known song you are referring to is "Follow the Drinking Gourd," listed and linked in the permathread. The thread is a wealth of material itself, as well as giving links to other discussions of the song and the period. Directions (referenced in code in the song) are translated into the local geography.

Mrr, look for the bibliography in the History of Spirituals thread. As many of the spirituals appeared in books of negro folk music, there are many good ones listed and you might want to PM people who have them to ask for excerpts.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 06:26 PM

Still many questions about the authenticity of the "Drinking Gourd." I thought that there was another one that mentioned river forks, but I could have got it mixed up with stories I was reading at the time.
The whole existence of code songs for escape routes seems far-fetched to me. The immediate geography of a region would be known to at least some slaves on any plantation, and could be imparted to those who did not travel with massa's goods, crops and supplies. After all, who drove the wagons, transported supplies, loaded the boats? Were there any slaves stupid enough that they did not know the Big Dipper? Follow the Drinking Gourd and get lost on the prairie.
Little sketch maps drawn in the dust and erased are much more useful than a song that could lead anywhere once the immediate area is left. All the detail in the song versions seems to have been added in the 20th century.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 06:35 PM

Mrrzy, check out the album Sweet Honey in the Rock did for children. I can't find the name of it in my head, now, and I'm at work.

Oops. I didn't send your twister game, did I. I have good excuses, but won't waste your time with 'em. Let me know if you want me to look around for my tape of above and I'll include it in the package. I think you'll find some of what you're looking for.

Dani

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Oct 02 - 09:27 PM

Slaves from plantation X could talk openly with fellow slaves from plantation X, but a chance to talk with slaves from plantation Z usually went along with white folks being present too-- goin to a segregated but parallel camp meeting, going into town, and so forth. Ways were needed to conduct business openly but not out in the open.

And the song made a way to remember a complex set of directions over a long period of time, or for free blacks going out and about to transmit the message. The legend I heard included a free man (white or black) going around passing the song. To do that in front of slave owners would have been suicide. But this was jes' a lil song, see?

The singing of the song, in the slave quarters, must have been really exhilarating, too, as preparations for the Big Day of escape for this one or that one would be made over a period of time. Imagine singing it just after a few had slipped away, knowing someday it might be your turn to see the same sights along the trail and gain the same goal.

Some other songs were used for code messages, but not in giving directions-- more general or more convoluted meanings could be taken from some of them. Some of them were just codes for "Gee I really think this life sucks, don't you, (Yes, Lord) and What an asshole the massa is" (Yes my Lord!) and "We can endure this" (Tell it brother!)... and so forth.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 Oct 02 - 01:18 PM

Reminds me of the Gaelic choruses that turned into "mouth music" but were originally the equivalent of "Robin at the Gallow's Oak!"

Dani, no excuses needed, I didn't furnish any for leaving it there, did I? But that tape sounds great!

I think I will suggest:
-No more auction block for me
-Follow the Drinking Gourd
-We Shall Overcome, and
-Hushabye. I don't think they'll need more than that. Meanwhile I have spoken to the school board, who are very interested in who chose those songs as it is against city policy, hee hee!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Black American History Non-Spirituals
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Oct 02 - 01:46 PM

Have FUN and make sure the kids know they can make up their own verses!!!!!!!!!!!!

~S~

Subject: Lyr Add: AMELIA'S SONG
From: fretless
Date: 07 Oct 02 - 02:13 PM

Toepke, Alvaro and Serrano, Angel, The Language You Cry In (Video) (California Newsreel 1998): tells an amazing scholarly detective story reaching across hundreds of years and thousands of miles from 18th-century Sierra Leone to the Gullah people of present-day Georgia. It recounts the even more remarkable saga of how African Americans retained links with their African past through the horrors of the middle passage, slavery and segregation. The film dramatically demonstrates the contribution of contemporary scholarship to restoring what narrator Vertamae Grosvenor calls the 'non-history' imposed on African Americans: 'This is a story of memory, how the memory of a family was pieced together though a song with legendary powers to connect those who sang it with their roots.'

"The Language You Cry In traces the history of this song, a burial hymn of the Mende people brought by slaves to the rice plantations of the Southest coast [of the United States] more than two hundred years ago. It was preserved there for generations, though the meaning of the words were forgotten until a pioneering Black linguist, Lorenzo Turner, recognized its origin in the 1930s. In the 1990s contemporary scholars Joe Opala and Cynthia Schmidt discovered that the song was still remembered in a remote village in Sierra Leone. An old woman had learned it from her grandmother who made the remarkable prediction that this song would help her recognize some long-lost kinfolk. The film concludes with the moving homecoming of the Gullah family which had preserved the song in America to the Mende villagers who reenact the ancient burial ritual for them."

AMELIA'S SONG


Ah wakuh muh monuh kambay yah lee luh lay tambay
Ah wakuh muh monuh kambay yah lee luh lay kah.
Ha suh wileego seehai yuh gbangah lilly
Ha suh wileego dwelin duh kwen
Ha suh wileego seehi uh kwendaiyah.


Everyone come together, let us work hard;
the grave is not yet finished; let his heart be perfectly at peace.
Everyone come together, let us work hard:
the grave is not yet finished; let his heart be at peace at once.
Sudden death commands everyone's attention,
like a firing gun.
Sudden death commands everyone's attention,
oh elders, oh heads of family
Sudden death commands everyone's attention,
like a distant drum beat.


(translated by Tazieff Koroma, Edward Benya and Joseph Opala)


Take a look also at White, Shane and Graham White, "Hearing Slavery: Recovering the role of sound in African American slave culture," Common-Place 1:4 (2001). Accessible at http://www.common-place.org/vol-01/no-04/slavery/white.shtml.