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Lyr Add: Calico Printer's Clerk

DigiTrad:
THE CALICO PRINTER'S CLARK


In Mudcat MIDIs:
The Calico Printer's Clerk [Harry Clifton & Charles Coote]


01 Jun 98 - 04:48 PM
Bob Bolton 01 Jun 98 - 08:43 PM
Bob Bolton 01 Jun 98 - 08:56 PM
John Hill 02 Jun 98 - 03:55 AM
02 Jun 98 - 03:59 AM
jehill 02 Jun 98 - 05:30 PM
Joe Offer 02 Jun 98 - 08:29 PM
Bob Bolton 02 Jun 98 - 08:48 PM
jehill 03 Jun 98 - 04:05 AM
Pete M 03 Jun 98 - 05:27 AM
jehill 03 Jun 98 - 02:53 PM
jehill 03 Jun 98 - 05:07 PM
tdustdum@aol.com 24 Oct 98 - 08:40 AM
mike cahill 24 Oct 98 - 09:59 AM
tdustdum@aol.com 24 Oct 98 - 11:47 AM
Durham Lad 12 Oct 99 - 05:38 PM
KathWestra 12 Oct 99 - 05:41 PM
Llanfair 12 Oct 99 - 05:45 PM
Doctor John 12 Oct 99 - 05:56 PM
lamarca 12 Oct 99 - 05:58 PM
lamarca 12 Oct 99 - 07:01 PM
bill\sables 12 Oct 99 - 07:35 PM
Stewie 12 Oct 99 - 07:39 PM
lamarca 12 Oct 99 - 08:15 PM
Durham Lad 13 Oct 99 - 02:47 PM
bobby's girl 13 Oct 99 - 07:03 PM
bobby's girl 13 Oct 99 - 07:05 PM
bill\sables 13 Oct 99 - 09:05 PM
Durham Lad 14 Oct 99 - 03:21 PM
Susanne (skw) 14 Oct 99 - 07:57 PM
GUEST,Paul UK 04 Jul 00 - 06:58 PM
Anglo 04 Jul 00 - 10:20 PM
GUEST,Paul UK 05 Jul 00 - 04:45 PM
JohnB 05 Jul 00 - 10:08 PM
TamthebamfraeScotland 30 Nov 00 - 04:35 PM
Orac 16 Jun 01 - 08:05 AM
IanC 18 Jun 01 - 04:21 AM
nutty 29 Oct 01 - 10:30 AM
GUEST,MCP 31 Oct 01 - 03:47 PM
Susanne (skw) 31 Oct 01 - 05:54 PM
Herga Kitty 31 Oct 01 - 06:00 PM
GUEST,Ambermel@southsurf.com 20 Apr 04 - 05:28 AM
breezy 20 Apr 04 - 05:44 AM
Kevin Sheils 20 Apr 04 - 05:57 AM
GUEST,MCP 20 Apr 04 - 06:01 AM
pavane 20 Apr 04 - 12:29 PM
GeoffLawes 20 Apr 04 - 05:48 PM
Bob Bolton 21 Apr 04 - 02:43 AM
Bob Bolton 21 Apr 04 - 05:09 AM
Bob Bolton 21 Apr 04 - 09:14 PM
Big Al Whittle 22 Apr 04 - 07:01 PM
Malcolm Douglas 22 Apr 04 - 07:26 PM
Artful Codger 14 May 10 - 03:45 AM
Artful Codger 14 May 10 - 04:03 AM
Artful Codger 14 May 10 - 04:15 AM
Anglo 14 May 10 - 11:35 AM
Joe Offer 14 May 10 - 05:03 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 14 May 10 - 05:18 PM
Tootler 14 May 10 - 06:29 PM
Artful Codger 14 May 10 - 08:15 PM
Anglo 15 May 10 - 03:45 PM
Tootler 15 May 10 - 07:39 PM
Artful Codger 15 May 10 - 09:35 PM
Joe Offer 15 May 10 - 11:14 PM
Artful Codger 16 May 10 - 01:10 AM
GUEST 10 Feb 13 - 09:22 AM
GUEST,kenny 10 Feb 13 - 02:56 PM
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE CALICO PRINTER'S CLERK
From:
Date: 01 Jun 98 - 04:48 PM

There is one word in the lyrics as I know them for this song that I'm not happy about

THE CALICO PRINTER'S CLERK

In Manchester that city of cotton, twist and twills
Lived the subject of me song, the cause of all me ills
She was handsome, young and twenty and her eyes were azure blue
Admirers she had plenty and her name was Dorothy Drew

Chorus
She was very fond of dancing but allow me to remark
That one fine day she danced away with the calico printer's clerk

At a private ball I met her in eighteen sixty-three
I never will forget her though she wasn't kind to me
I was dressed in the pink of fashion and me lavender gloves were new
And I danced the Waltz at Cassion with the charming Dorothy Drew

Chorus

We Schottished and we Polka'd to the tunes the band did play
We Waltzed and we Mazurka'd and she waltzed my heart away
And I whispered in this fashion as around the room we flew
A-doing the Waltz Silvania "Oh I love you Dorothy Drew"

Chorus

For months and months attention unto her I did pay
To win her condescension I gave me heart away
And the money I expended I'm ashamed to tell to you
But I'll tell you how it ended with meself and Dorothy Drew

Chorus

I had an intimation she'd a visit for to pay
Unto some near relations who lived not far away
In a month she'd be returning I must bid a short adieu
But her love for me was burning Oh deceiptful Dorothy Drew

Chorus

At nine o'clock next morning to breakfast I sat down
And the smile on me face adorning soon turned into a frown
For in the morning papers a paragraph met my view
That Jones, the calico printer's clerk had married Dorothy Drew

Chorus

It is a great song that was sung a lot in the seventies. I suspect that it isn't "traditional" perhaps someone knows who wrote it. My problem is in the second verse. I don't believe the "the waltz at cassion" is correct. Does anyone know what this word should be. I've listened to a couple of different versions but they both sound the same to me.

Regards

John Hill

Click here for related thread



Thread #22963   Message #251922
Posted By: Anglo
04-Jul-00 - 10:20 PM
Thread Name: Tune Req: Calico Printers Clerk
Subject: RE: Tune Req: Calico Printers Clerk

So I've decided to learn ABC, and here's an opportunity to practice.
Try this:

X:1
T:Calico Printer's Clerk
C: tune by Dave Moran
M:4/4
L:1/4
K:g
G|GGGG|d d2 d |ccBB|A4|e> e dd|ccB>B|AGFG|A4|
eeee|d d2 d/d/|c>BAB|c3G|GGBd|edcB|AAA/B/c|B2GG|
eeee|d d2 d/d/|cBAB|c3G|GGBd|edcB/B/|A/A/GFA|G3||

It's apparently an 1860s broadside, set by Dave Moran of the Halliard (wot Nic Jones used to sing in when we were all a lot younger).


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Subject: RE: calico printer's clerk
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 01 Jun 98 - 08:43 PM

G'day John,

This is just a punt on the right word - it's a decade or two since I heard the song last - but just by context and fashion, it may be "the Waltz Cotillion" (strictly, the French is "cotillon", more or less the same as petticoat.

As we play it, the Waltz Cotillion should be brisk enough for the petticoats to swing out (yet another sin of the shameful waltz!). The actual dance is rather more complex that a modern round waltz - being a detached figure from a quadrille (The Alberts, offhand). This not only involved moving about the quadrille set searately and in a couple waltz, but has a grand chain in waltz time (which we push to more of a mazurka rhythm).

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: calico printer's clerk
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 01 Jun 98 - 08:56 PM

G'day again,

I got carried away with irrelevantly describing dance steps.

I also meant to say that I have heard a song, published in an Australian songbook of the late 19th century, which has a form and phrasing that suggests it is parodied on the Calico Printer's Clerk. If this is so, then the Calico Printer's Clerk (or some common ancestor of both) must be no later than 1870s.

The dances listed would suggest the period before these rhythmic couple dances (Polka, Schottische, Mazurka) were smothered by schmaltzy waltzes. On the same line, your "Waltz Sylvania" is probably "Waltz of Vienna" - a late corruption of Varsovienne (usually pronounced "Varsovienna" in colonial Australia).

This is a dance that the French named (c. 1845)for the Poles: (woman)of Varsovie - Warsaw) despite the fact that the dance (and its best and most complex versions) are probably Swedish! Are well, the Froggies are not always right.

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: calico printer's clerk
From: John Hill
Date: 02 Jun 98 - 03:55 AM

G'day Bob

My!! you do seem to know your dances. I just can't comment on whether any of your suggestions are correct. We'll just have to see if anyone else knows the words. There are so many songs now that have been written in a "traditional" form its difficult to know which are "genuine". Not that it really matters if its a good song. I was surprised that it wasn't in the DT but then again I guess the majority of songs here have been deposited by Americans and perhaps it isn't known over there.
Know doubt No doubt someone will put me right about that.

Regards

John


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Subject: RE: calico printer's clerk
From:
Date: 02 Jun 98 - 03:59 AM

OK!! so my fingers got carried away with me.

That should have said "no doubt" but then you can't go back and change it.

Never mind eh!


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Subject: RE: calico printer's clerk
From: jehill
Date: 02 Jun 98 - 05:30 PM

G'day again Bob

I have two recordings of this song one by Dave Goulder & Liz Dyer and the other by The Ripley Wayfarers. As you can imagine I have been listening to both of them to see if you are right. "The Waltz Silvania" that I had is as you say "The Varsovienne". So thanks for that. The other "The Waltz at Cassion" actually sounds like "The Waltz Surcassion" or "The Waltz Zurgassion" if that means anything to you. It doesn't sound anything like your "Waltz Cotillion" unfortunately. The song itself sounds like a Polka to me but then I'm no judge. Both records state that it is "traditional" so you are right about that too.

Regards

John


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Subject: RE: calico printer's clerk
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Jun 98 - 08:29 PM

Yeah, John, you can't erase here. You have to cross out your mistakes (grin).
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: calico printer's clerk
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 02 Jun 98 - 08:48 PM

G'day again John,

Your are probably right about the song being in polka time. The tune I seem to remember could be played as a decent polka. My tentative dating actually sets the song in the middle of the late 1880s revival of the polka, so it seems likely.

There is a non-waltz dance of that period (or a little earlier) called the Circassian Circle. There may well be a Circassian Waltz - or Valse Circassienne - as well. During the 19th century the French ballroom dancing masters systematically plundered the northern European folk dance traditions and reworked many peasant dances to refined ballroom versions. Generally they were given names indicating their peasant origins - even if the French were not always scrupulously accurate in ascription.

This can be of great interest to dance collectors here in Australia. They sometimes find identifiable versions from both ballroom and folk traditions showing that the original dance often came out with migrants who settled in rural areas and did not get involved in the flash ballroom scene.

I hope this helps,

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: calico printer's clerk
From: jehill
Date: 03 Jun 98 - 04:05 AM

Strewth Bob!! You really are a mine of info. This obviously is your subject. "Valse Circassienne" certainly sounds like the record although I suspect the singer is saying "Waltz Circassion" But it makes little difference either way.

I've been trying to sort this out for yonks, I quite like "doing" this one myself because its a good chorus song that folks can join in with.

Thanks for your trouble.

John


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Subject: RE: calico printer's clerk
From: Pete M
Date: 03 Jun 98 - 05:27 AM

I can't be definitive, but I've always understood the words to be the "bold Circassian" which ties in with Bob's reasoning.

Pete M


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Subject: RE: calico printer's clerk
From: jehill
Date: 03 Jun 98 - 02:53 PM

Well I've listened to my two recordings yet again. On the Goulder/Dyer recording Liz Dyer definitely sings "Waltz Circassion", on the Ripley Wayfarer's version Mick Peat could well be singing "Bold Circassion" or it could be something else.... I've no way of knowing whether either are correct anyway. Lets see if anyone else is any more certain.
All suggestions gratefully received
Regards

John


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Subject: RE: calico printer's clerk
From: jehill
Date: 03 Jun 98 - 05:07 PM

OK Joe....I keep looking at your disappearing grin
How do ya do it?
John


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Subject: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: tdustdum@aol.com
Date: 24 Oct 98 - 08:40 AM

Words for the song anyone?


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE CALICO PRINTER'S CLERK
From: mike cahill
Date: 24 Oct 98 - 09:59 AM

This is from a book called The Mike Harding Collection, Folk Songs of Lancashire.It's got lot's of good songs in it

The Calico Printer's Clerk

In Manchester that city of cotton twist and twills
There lived the subject of my song, the cause of all my ills.
She was handsome, young and twenty and her eyes were azure blue
Admirers she had plenty and her name was Dorothy Drew.
Chorus
She was very fond of dancing but allow me to remark,
One fine day she danced away with the Calico printers clerk.
At a private ball I met her in 1863
I never can forget her though she proved unkind to me,
I was dressed in pink of fashion, my leather gloves were new
And I danced the valse circasian with champion Dorothy Drew.

We schottished and we polka'd to the strains the band did play
We valsed and we mazurka'd till she valsed my heart away.
I whispered in this fashion as round the room we flew
Doing the varsovinia "I love you Dorothy Drew".

For months and months attention unto her I did play
Till, with her condescension, she led me quite astray.
The money I expended, I'm asshamed to tell to you
But I'll tell you how it ended with myself and Dorothy Drew.

I received an intimation she a visit meant to pay
Unto a near relation who lived some miles away
In a month she'd be returning, I must make a short adieu
But her love for me was burning, oh, deceitful Dorothy Drew.

At nine o'clock next morning to breakfast I sat down
The smile my face adorning soon turned into a frown.
For in the morning paper, a paragraph met my view
Jones the Calico printers clerk had married Dorothy Drew.


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Subject: RE: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: tdustdum@aol.com
Date: 24 Oct 98 - 11:47 AM

Many Thanks Mike


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Subject: Calico Printers Clerk
From: Durham Lad
Date: 12 Oct 99 - 05:38 PM

I heard this song about twenty years ago and still hum the tune. Unfortunately I only know half of a verse! In order to save a marriage can any one help?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Calico Printers Clerk
From: KathWestra
Date: 12 Oct 99 - 05:41 PM

Send a personal e-mail message to Lamarca, who has been performing this song for a couple of years with her husband, George Stephens. They do a terrific job of it!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Calico Printers Clerk
From: Llanfair
Date: 12 Oct 99 - 05:45 PM

I can remember most of it, which bits do you need? It doesn't seem to be on the database.
She was very fond of dancing,
But allow me to remark,
That one fine day she danced away
With a calico printer's clerk.
That's the chorus. Hwyl, Bron.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Calico Printers Clerk
From: Doctor John
Date: 12 Oct 99 - 05:56 PM

I have this sung by Dave Moran on CD, The Halliard: Jon Raven/Jolly Machine. No. MR77 available direct from Mike Raven at "Yew Tree Cottage", Jug Bank, Ashley, Market Drayton, Shropshire, TF9 4NJ England. He will be pleased to hear from you. Dr John


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE CALICO PRINTER'S CLERK
From: lamarca
Date: 12 Oct 99 - 05:58 PM

My husband and I sing this as a duet - we learned it from a Yorkshire/American couple named John and Rosie Goucher(?) and blended in some of the version sung by Mike Raven of The Halliard. It's been folk processed a bit by coming over to the USA, but here's the words we sing:

The Calico Printer's Clark


a broadside ballad from late 1800's

In Manchester, that city, of cotton, twist and twills
There's a girl who's young and pretty, she's the cause of all me ills
Years she has but twenty and her eyes are azure blue
Admirers she's got plenty and her name is Dorothy Drew.

Chorus:

    She was very fond of dancing,
    But allow me to remark
    One fine day she danced away
    With the calico printer's clark.

It was at a dance I met her in 1863
And I never will forget her, though she was unkind to me
I was dressed in the pink of fashion, all me clothes and shoes were new
And we danced the Waltz Circassian with the lovely Dorothy Drew.

We Schottisched and we Polka'd to the tunes the band did play
We Waltzed and we Mazurka'd, til she waltzed my heart away
I whispered in this manner as around the room we flew
Doing the Varsovianna, "How I love you, Dorothy Drew."

verse missing here that we don't sing - will add when I get home

She wrote to me a letter that a call she meant to pay
Unto some dear relations, who lived some miles away
In a week she'd be returning, I must bid a short adieu
And her heart for me was burning, oh, deceitful Dorothy Drew!

It was early the next morning, to my breakfast I sat down
The smile my face adorning was soon turned into a frown
For in the morning paper, a paragraph I did view
That Jones, the calico printer's clark, had married Dorothy Drew.

In Manchester, that city, of cotton, twist and twills
There's a girl who's young and pretty, she's the cause of all me ills
Years she has but twenty and her eyes are azure blue
Admirers she's got plenty and her name was Dorothy Drew.
^^


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE CALICO PRINTER'S CLERK
From: lamarca
Date: 12 Oct 99 - 07:01 PM

Here's the missing verse:

For months and months attention unto her I did pay,
'Til with her condescension, she led me quite astray;
For the money I expended, I'm ashamed to tell to you
I'll inform you how it ended with meself and Dorothy Drew.

Dr. John is correct; Dave Moran sang lead on this one with Halliard. I didn't know the full version when I first learned the song, so I kept the bits I liked about the Goucher's version and added in the bits I liked from Halliard's version once I got the CD re-release Dr. John mentions above. Have fun!


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE CALICO PRINTER'S CLERK
From: bill\sables
Date: 12 Oct 99 - 07:35 PM

Hi Durham Lad, If you heard it in Durham it was possibly this version which I learned from Barry Skinner around 1966 in Shotley Bridge Co Durham. It is much like the version from lamarca but one or two words are diferent.

In Manchester a city of cotton twist and twills
Lived the subject of my song the cause of all my ills
She was hansome young and twenty and her eyes were azure blue
Admirers she had plenty and they called her Dorothy Drew

She was very fond of dancing but allow me to remark
One fine day she danced away with the calico printers clerk

At a private ball I met her in eighteen sixty three
I never will forget her though she's been unkind to me
Dressed in the peak of fashion my lavender gloves were new
I danced the waltz "Cartesian" with the charming Dorothy Drew

We Schottisched and we polka'd to the tunes the band did play
We Waltzed and we Mazurke'd she danced my heart away
I knew that in this fashion as round the room we flew
That during the Waltz "Sylvanians" I loved that Dorothy Drew

Well months and months attention unto her I did pay
To win her condescension she led me quite astray
The money I expended I'm ashamed to tell to you
But I'll tell you how it ended 'tween myself and Dorothy Drew

I recieved an invitation she'd a message then to pay
Unto some near relation who lived quite a while away
In a month she'd be returning I must bid a short adeau
Her love for me was burning Oh the single Dorothy Drew

At nine o'clock next morning to breakfast I sat down
The smiling face upon me well it soon changed to a frown
For in the morning paper a paragraph caught my view
That Jones the calico printers clerk had married Dorothy Drew

Cheers Bill


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Calico Printers Clerk
From: Stewie
Date: 12 Oct 99 - 07:39 PM

Bill, that's pretty much word for word the version on the Halliard album also.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Calico Printers Clerk
From: lamarca
Date: 12 Oct 99 - 08:15 PM

The dance names mentioned in the song were popular dances of the Nineteenth century; one description is at a Web site here:
    Another form of quadrille drew popularity not only because it included familiar figures but also because it provided opportunity to perform the waltz , polka, schottish, Esmerelda, or mazurka. Numerous manuals presented directions for these quadrille variants...The Paris publisher Roret's Nouveau manuel complet de la danse of 1866 also included a Varsovianna Quadrille, after the popular waltz variation of that name. In 1889, Herman A. Strassburg, Jr.'s Call book of modern quadrilles described three waltz quadrilles, including a curious example for three couples (rather than the usual four).

The "Waltz Circassian" may have been a variant of the Circassian Circle Dance - anyway, I liked the way the song gives the actual names of real dances from the 1860's...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Calico Printers Clerk
From: Durham Lad
Date: 13 Oct 99 - 02:47 PM

Thank you all for contributing. This was my first visit to the site and I'm totally amazed at the resource.

I first heard this song around 1969 and it was being performed by a group around the Darlington area, the Candlelighters I think. Anyone know anything about them?

I know realise it was the chorus I was singing so if anyone can help with the tune for the verse I'd be very grateful. I'll probably inflict my local club with it on Friday...........


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Calico Printers Clerk
From: bobby's girl
Date: 13 Oct 99 - 07:03 PM

I heard this song many years ago sung by the Spinners, so its possible that there may be a record by them which has it on - if a)you can still get the records, and b) you have something which will play them!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Calico Printers Clerk
From: bobby's girl
Date: 13 Oct 99 - 07:05 PM

By the way - forgot to say WELCOME TO THE MUDCAT - ENJOY!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Calico Printers Clerk
From: bill\sables
Date: 13 Oct 99 - 09:05 PM

Durham Lad, If you email me bill@sables48.freeserve.co.uk I will give you my phone number and then I can sing the tune over the phone. I am near Selby North Yorks Cheers Bill


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Calico Printers Clerk
From: Durham Lad
Date: 14 Oct 99 - 03:21 PM

I'm going to take Bill up on his offer. Thanks all for your help. I guess this thread is closed


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Calico Printers Clerk
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 14 Oct 99 - 07:57 PM

The Spinners recorded the song on '.. At the London Palladium' (1974). If you send me a tape I'll tape it for you. - Susanne (skw@worldmusic.de)


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Subject: Calico Printers Clerk
From: GUEST,Paul UK
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 06:58 PM

Anyone got the tune to The Calico Printers Clerk? I believe the song was very popular in the UK Clubs about 15 years ago.


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Subject: Tune Add: THE CALICO PRINTER'S CLERK
From: Anglo
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 10:20 PM

So I've decided to learn ABC, and here's an opportunity to practice.
Try this:

X:1
T:Calico Printer's Clerk
C: tune by Dave Moran
M:4/4
L:1/4
K:g
G|GGGG|d d2 d |ccBB|A4|e> e dd|ccB>B|AGFG|A4|
eeee|d d2 d/d/|c>BAB|c3G|GGBd|edcB|AAA/B/c|B2GG|
eeee|d d2 d/d/|cBAB|c3G|GGBd|edcB/B/|A/A/GFA|G3||

It's apparently an 1860s broadside, set by Dave Moran of the Halliard (wot Nic Jones used to sing in when we were all a lot younger).


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Calico Printers Clerk
From: GUEST,Paul UK
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 04:45 PM

Many thanks to all for your help. Have passed the tune on to my friend who is going to 'give it a go' tomorrow. Cheers Paul UK


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Calico Printers Clerk
From: JohnB
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 10:08 PM

The whole song is printed in "The Mike Harding collection Folk Songs of Lancashire" if you can obtain a copy of it. Try a Library. Published by "the Whitethorn Press" 1980 ISBN 0 9506055 3 0 My copy says 3 pound 65, I expect it's gone up a bit since then though.


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Subject: RE: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: TamthebamfraeScotland
Date: 30 Nov 00 - 04:35 PM

Thank you for the lyrics to Calico Printer's clerk


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Calico Printers Clerk
From: Orac
Date: 16 Jun 01 - 08:05 AM

I don't know where Mike Harding got some of his lyrics from as it should be Lavender gloves not leather gloves. Here are the original words from 1865 .. hope the link works. Click here


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Calico Printers Clerk
From: IanC
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 04:21 AM

Orac

Clearly not "The Original" as it says copies of This Popular Song on the broadside. Must be older then ...


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Subject: RE: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: nutty
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 10:30 AM

If anyone is interested. Here is an 1865 broadside from the Bodleian Library

CALICO PRINTERS CLERK


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Subject: RE: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 03:47 PM

The tune (IIRC) was written by Dave Moran of The Halliard (the group Nic Jones sang with in his early days) from a broadside copy in Preston(?) library.

nutty's broadside reference also confirms the dances (Valse Circassian and Varsovienne/Varsoviana) discussed in the other threads.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 05:54 PM

MCP, you seem to remember correctly because that's exactly what Steve Winick said in the June-July 2001 issue of Dirty Linen in a review of the 'Halliard' reissue. (Just to add a 'proper' source for future reference.)


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Subject: RE: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 31 Oct 01 - 06:00 PM

As Mick says, it's credited on Mike Raven's reissue of a Halliard LP to the Harkness Broadside Collection, held in the Reference Library at Preston. The Notes to the Songs say, "printed in the late 1860s or early 1870s". And yes, the tune is credited to Dave Moran.

Kitty


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Subject: RE: calico printer's clerk
From: GUEST,Ambermel@southsurf.com
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 05:28 AM

Dances queried as follows:

Waltz Silvania should be the "Varsovianna"

Waltz at Cassion sholuld be "Waltz Circassian"

Hope this clears it up.

Melanie


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Subject: RE: calico printer's clerk
From: breezy
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 05:44 AM

and thats what I've been singing these 25-35 years too

igot a few variants as there is no dfinitive

v1 Her eyes SHONE az u do

v2 I met her at a Privt ball


v2 'Though she did prove false to me

v 24 'Early the next morning, to me brekkers I sat down

great fun to sing and I involve the audience a lttle more by encouraging them to shout out
'THAT'
during the chorus


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Subject: RE: calico printer's clerk
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 05:57 AM

My understanding is that the words are from a broadsheet and the tune was put to it by Nic Jones (and/or) Dave Moran who performed in way back when they were The Halliard. Whether the tune was composed by Nic or based on another tune I'm not sure.


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Subject: RE: calico printer's clerk
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 06:01 AM

The dance information has already been discussed (with the same results) in Calico Printer's Clerk

Mick


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Subject: RE: calico printer's clerk
From: pavane
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 12:29 PM

According to the thread on Rocky Road to Dublin, Calico Printer's Clerk was written by Harry Clifton


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 05:48 PM

Yes, according to Michael Kilgarriff's SING US ONE OF THE OLD SONGS, A Guide To Popular Song 1860-1920, it was written by the prolific English music hall composer and performer Harry Clifton (1824-1872). There is no date given for this song but all the dates that are given for his songs are between 1862 and 1870. This is an excellent reference book containing 18,000 song titles in various forms of list, and is a good starting point for finding the provenance of popular British and American songs although, being extensive (848 pages),there isn't any detail and it costs thirty five pounds


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 21 Apr 04 - 02:43 AM

G'day Geoff,

Thanks for you dating information ... it fits in well with my guess of nearly 6 years back:
" ... then the Calico Printer's Clerk (or some common ancestor of both) must be no later than 1870s."

(I guess that I really ought to stump up with the Australian song I mantioned then ... now, I just have to remember which one that was ... I have just been nagged, quite separately, about my failure to post words to an Australian song related to another song discussed in some totally different thread in 1999!)

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 21 Apr 04 - 05:09 AM

G'day again,

I now remember that the Australian song, obviously using this same tune was called Carrotty Kate - a tale of a faithless barmaid of that name - and a horse riding proclivity ... and it has the chorus:
She was very fond of riding, as you can plainly see
For one fine day she rode away, with a chap from the Native Bee.


This has to be a parody, roughly contemporary with the Australian popularity of The Calico Printer's Clerk ... it appears in Douglas Stewart and Nancy Keesing's expanded version of 'Banjo' Paterson's 1905/1912 book Old Bush Songs - and is gleaned from "Bill Bowyang's" Australian Bush Recitations.

With any luck (and some perserverance) I should be able to scan it in ... after tonight's Committee Meeting ... maybe ...

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: Lyr Add: CARROTY KATE (same tune)
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 21 Apr 04 - 09:14 PM

G'day yet again,

Well, I did get the scan done, but the Mudcat stayed down on the Delta bottom! Anyway, here are the words to an Australian poem / song clearly using the form, style (and tune) of The Calico Printer's Clerk:

CARROTY KATE
Anon.

It was at a back-track shanty where I was on the spree,
The ladies they were scanty, but the barmaid did for me.
Her hair was the colour of ginger, she could reckon you up on a slate,
My colonial, she was a swinger, and they called her Carroty Kate.
Chorus:
        She was very fond of riding, as you can plainly see
        For one fine day she rode away, with a chap from the
Native Bee.

Now the shearing it was finished, and the rowdies rolling in,
My cheque had much diminished for Kate had got my tin.
I told her I'd burst like a bubble, if I didn't get her for a mate,
But, oh she saved me the trouble, did deceitful Carroty Kate.

I had bought her a pigskin saddle, a pretty piebald hack,
I "pitched" my sheep and cattle, for the station was just Outback:
When I asked her for to marry, I saw her hesitate,
For a fellow they call Flash Harry had been spooning with Carroty Kate.

Now he kept pitching nuggets and I kept pitching stock,
He pitched the biggest druggets and to my pitching he put a stop:
Now whether 'twas the gold or the riches that down the gully he'd rake
Or whether it was his boots or breeches-but he'd "pinched" my Carroty Kate.

From "Bill Bowyang's" Australian Bush Recitations

I reckon we might need a bit of "Glossary" of the 'Australianisms':

Shanty: A knockabout, usually unlicensed, grogshop in the outback regions ... usually dedicated to depriving seasonal workers of the whole season's pay cheque - and often using drugged grog to make the process faster, surer ... and cheaper.

My Colonial: Short for "My Colonial Oath" ... and generally a euphemism for some stronger 'Colonial' (native-born Australian) oath!

Native Bee: Presumably the name of the Station (rural property - farm / ranch) owned by 'Flash Harry'.

Tin: Money, cash.

"Pitched": Offered as an inducement (in this case, to marriage ... or something like that).

Nuggets ... stock: Presumably 'Flash Harry' was offering more in the way of riches ... and our hero was putting up his station and livestock.

Druggets: "Drugget" is a coarse cloth used in those days for rough floor and table coverings. Presumably it's used here to suggest 'Flash Harry' laying out his wealth for 'Carroty Kate'.

"Bill Bowyang" was a pen-name of journalist Alexander Vindex Vennard (1884 - 1947) whose column On the Track in the North Queensland Register published poems / songs sent in by readers between 1922 and 1947. Many of these were published in a series of nine books known as the Bill Bowyang Reciters. Together, these books constitute one of the best resources for 'folk songs' from the period before modern collectors, armed with tape-recorders, began to seek out old performers.

(A "Bowyang" is one of a pair of straps / bands / strings tied around trouser legs, below the knee to either hitch them up in rough ground ... or to limit how far small wildlife can climb!)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 07:01 PM

I have e-mailed Mick Peat at Radio Derby and asked him what his understanding of the lyric is


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 07:26 PM

Broadside editions of the period are perfectly clear. Valse Circassian.


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Subject: Lyr Add: SHE WAS VERY FOND OF DANCING (H Clifton)
From: Artful Codger
Date: 14 May 10 - 03:45 AM

Here is a transcription of the lyrics from Harry Clifton's authorized sheet music (scans provided by Steve Gardham):


"She Was Very Fond of Dancing."
    or, The Calico Printer's Clerk.
    Written and Sung by Harry Clifton. [1865]
    Composed by C. Coote, Jun.

1. In Manchester, that city Of Cotton, Twist, and Twills,
Liv'd the subject of my ditty, And the cause of all my ills.
She was handsome, young and twenty, Her eyes were azure blue.
Admirers she had plenty, And her name was Dorothy Drew.

        CHORUS.
    She was very fond of dancing, But allow me to remark
    That one fine day she danc'd away with the Calico Printer's Clerk.
        [repeat]

2. At a private ball I met her In eighteen sixty-three.
I never can forget her, Tho' she was unkind to me.
I was dress'd in Pink of Fashion, My lavender gloves were new.
I danc'd the Valse Circassion With charming Dorothy Drew.

3. We Schottisch'd and we Polka's To the strains the band did play.
We Valsed, and we Mazourka'd, Till she Valsed my heart away.
I whisper'd in this manner, As round the room we flew
Doing Varsoviana, "I love you, Dorothy Drew."

4. For months and months attention Unto her I did pay
Till with her condescension She led me quite astray.
The money I expended I'm asham'd to tell to you.
I'll inform you how it ended With myself and Dorothy Drew.

5. I receiv'd an intimation She a visit meant to pay
Unto a near relation, Who liv'd some miles away.
In a month she'd be returning, I must take a short adieu,
But her love for me was burning, Deceiful Dorothy Drew.

6. At nine o'clock next morning, To breakfast I sat down.
The smile my face adorning Was soon chang'd to a frown,
For in the morning paper, A paragraph met my view
That Jones, a Calico Printer's clerk, Had married Miss Dorothy Drew.


Source: period sheet music, 1865, provided by Steve Gardham.

Notes by Steve Gardham:
Cover details.
The Calico Printer's Clerk 'She Was Very Fond Of dancing'
Written and sung with the greatest success by HARRY CLIFTON At his concerts on his tour through England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales.
London
Hopwood & Crew 42 New Bond Street W

Litho is of Clifton in character dressed as a sailor? with a copy of the Manchester Examiner in his hand, and the background is presumably of Manchester with lots of smoky factory chimneys

Inside
She was very fond of Dancing or The Calico Printer's Clerk.
Written and Sung by Harry Clifton, Composed by C(harles) Coote Jun.
Stock number H&C 732

Re dating
Obviously the song mentions 1863 and I have a Glasgow Poets Box printing of 7th October 1865. I'd say c1864 was a safe bet.
[AC: A notice from 1865, quoted by Sminky in the "Harry Clifton songwriter" thread, calls this one of Clifton's latest three songs.]

It was sung in the 60s by Harry Boardman, Robin Dransfield and Stefan Sobell if I recall correctly. Dransfield definitely.

Click to play


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Subject: ABC: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: Artful Codger
Date: 14 May 10 - 04:03 AM

Here's a polyphonic transcription of the music in ABC. I've only done the intro, first verse, chorus and bridge, since the remainder consists of repetitions of the verse section, slightly modified to accommodate different words.

This ABC can be pasted into Concertina.net's ABC Convert-A-Matic to generate a PDF score (thought the extended features I use defeat their MIDI converter). I've sent a MIDI to Joe Offer, who will post it here shortly. I generated the MIDI using Barfly.

If desired, I can post a melody-only ABC transcription, which should be usable with more programs.


X:1
T:The Calico Printer's Clerk
T:or, "She was very fond of dancing"
C:Written by Harry Clifton, 1865.
C:Composed by Charles Coote, Jun.
M:6/8
L:1/8
Q:2/8=120 " Moderato"
V:V1 treble program 1 73         % Voice
V:P1 treble program 1 1          % Piano, upper
V:P2 bass m=d t=-24 program 1 1 % Piano, lower
%%MIDI program V1 73
%%MIDI program P1 1
%%MIDI program P2 1
%%MIDI gchordoff
K:A
V:1
%
% Piano intro
%
%%score {P1|P2}
[V:V1] z|z6|z6|z6|z6|
[V:P1] (c/d/) | "A"(e2c')(b2a) | "Bm"(b2f)(b2a) | "E7"(g2d)(g2f) | "A"e3-e z(c/d/) |
[V:P2] z | A[eac'][eac'] A[eac'][eac'] | d[fb][fb] d[fb][fb] | \
e[gbd'][gbd'] e[gbd'][gbd'] | A[eac'][eac'] A[eac'][eac'] |
%
[V:V1] z6|z6|z6|z5||
[V:P1] (e2c')(b2a) | "Bm"(b2f)(b2a) | "E7"(g^^fg)c'2b | "A"a3-a2 ||
%   Last note of measure 2 corrected from "g" to "a", as everywhere else.
[V:P2] A[eac'][eac'] A[eac'][eac'] | d[fb][fb] d[fb][fb] |\
e[gbd'][gbd'] e[gbd'][gbd'] | a[c'e'][c'e'] a2 ||
%
% Verses
%%score V1 {P1|P2}
%
[V:V1] (C/D/) | "A"E2cB2A | "Bm"BF2(B2A) | "E7"G2DG2F | "A"E3-E z C/ D/ |
w: 1.~In* Man-ches-ter that ci-ty Of_ Cot-ton, Twist, and Twills_ Liv'd the
w: 2.~At a pri-vate ball I met her In_ eigh-teen six-ty- three._ I*
[V:P1] z | z[E,A,C][E,A,C]z[E,A,C][E,A,C] | z[F,B,D][F,B,D]z[F,B,D][F,B,D] | \
z[E,G,B,D][E,G,B,D]z[E,G,B,D][E,G,B,D] | z[E,A,C][E,A,C]z[E,A,C][E,A,C] |
[V:P2] z | A3 A3 | D3 D3 | E3 E3 | A3 A3 |
%
[V:V1] E2cB2A | "Bm"BF2B2A | "E"(G^^F) G c2B | "A"A3-A z A/ A/ |
w: sub-ject of my dit-ty, And the cause* of all my ills._ She was
w: ne-ver can for-get her, Tho' she was* un-kind to me._ I was
[V:P1] z[E,A,C][E,A,C]z[E,A,C][E,A,C] | z[F,B,D][F,B,D]z[F,B,D][F,B,D] | \
z[E,G,D][E,G,D]z[E,G,D][E,G,D] | z[E,A,C][E,A,C]z[E,A,C][E,A,C] |
[V:P2] A3 A3 | d3 D3 | E3 E3 | A3 A3 |
%
[V:V1] "D"d2d "E7"c2^B | "A"(cA2)z2A | "Bm"(B B) F "E7"G2F | "A"E3-E2 A |
w: hand-some, young and twen-ty, Her eyes* were a-zure blue._ Ad-
w: dress'd in Pink of Fa-shion, My la-ven-der gloves were new._ I
[V:P1] z[A,DF][A,DF] z[B,DG][B,DG] | z[CEA][CEA]z[CEA][CEA] | \
z[DFB][DFB] z[B,DG][B,DG] | z[A,CE][A,CE]z[A,CE][A,CE] |
[V:P2] (d3 e3 | a3) A3 | d3 e3 | a3 a3 |
%
[V:V1] "D"d2d "E7"c2B | "A"cc3 z A/ A/ | "B7"B2B ^d d d | "E"e3-e2 H||
w: mi-rers she had plen-ty, And her name was Do-ro-thy Drew._
w: danc'd the Valse Cir-cas-sion. With* char-ming Do-ro-thy Drew._
[V:P1] z[A,DF][A,DF] z[B,DG][B,DG] | z[CEA][CEA] z[CEA][CEA] | \
z[B,^DA][B,DA] z[B,DA][B,DA] | z[B,EG][B,EG] [B,2E2G2] H||
[V:P2] d3 e3 | a3 A3 | B3 B3 | e3-e2 H||
%
% Chorus
[V:V1] "^Chorus." C/ D/ |: "A"E2cB2A | "Bm"B2FB2A | "E"G2DG2F | "A"E3-Ez (C/D/) |
w: She was ve-ry fond of dan-cing, But al-low me to re-mark_ That*
[V:P1] (c/d/) |: (e2c')(b2a) | (b2f)(b2a) | (g2d)g2f | e3-e z(c/d/) |
[V:P2] z |: A[eac'][eac'] A[eac'][eac'] | d[fb][fb] d[fb][fb] | \
e[gbd'][gbd'] e[gbd'][gbd'] | A[eac'][eac'] A[eac'][eac'] |
%
[V:V1] E2cB2A | "Bm"B2F B B A | "E"G ^^F G c2B | "A"A3-A2 [1 C/ D/ :|
w: one fine day she danc'd a-way With the Ca-li-co Prin-ter's Clerk._ She was
[V:P1] (e2c')(b2a) | (b2f)(b2a) | g(^^fg)c'2b | a3-a2 [1 (c/d/) :|
[V:P2] A[eac'][eac'] A[eac'][eac'] | d[fb][fb] d[fb][fb] | \
e[gbd'][gbd'] e[gbd'][gbd'] | a[c'e'][c'e'] a2 [1 z :|
%
% Piano break
%%score {P1|P2}
[V:V1] [2 z|z6|z6|z6|z6|]
[V:P1] [2 c/d/ |"A"(e2c')(b2a) | "Bm"(b2f)(b2a) | "E"(g^^fg)c'2b | "A"a3-a2 z |]
[V:P2] [2 z| A[eac'][eac'] A[eac'][eac'] | d[fb][fb] d[fb][fb] | \
e[gbd'][gbd'] e[gbd'][gbd'] | (a[c'e'])[c'e'] a2 z |]

Click to play

To play or display ABC tunes, try concertina.net


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Subject: Chords: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: Artful Codger
Date: 14 May 10 - 04:15 AM

Here are the chords (which are also present in my ABC transcription, and thus will show up in a generated score):

Key: A

Verse:
In [A]Manchester, that [Bm]city Of [E7]Cotton, Twist, and [A]Twills,
Liv'd the [A]subject of my [Bm]ditty, And the [E]cause of all my [A]ills.
She was [D]handsome, [E7]young and [A]twenty, Her [Bm]eyes were [E7]azure [A]blue.
Ad[D]mirers [E7]she had [A]plenty, And her [B7]name was Dorothy [E]Drew.

Chorus:
She was [A]very fond of [Bm]dancing, But al[E]low me to re[A]mark
That [A]one fine day she [Bm]danc'd away with the [E]Calico Printer's [A]Clerk.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: Anglo
Date: 14 May 10 - 11:35 AM

Can't read the ABC, I'm afraid. Barfly (on my Mac) tells me there is an error associated with the V: fields in the tune.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 May 10 - 05:03 PM

Artful Codger's tune added for Calico Printer's Clerk. Thanks, AC.

Click to play


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 14 May 10 - 05:18 PM

Anglo

The only problem with the abc seems to be the z5 in line 27; it's liable to be compained at as not representable (with dotted notes). Try changing it to z3 z2.

Mick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: Tootler
Date: 14 May 10 - 06:29 PM

I learnt this from Benny Graham at a Folkworks Caedmon class. He commented at the time that although the words as written are "Doing the Varsoviana..." almost everyone actually sings "Varsovania" because it scans slightly better.

This almost certainly explains some of the confusion early on in the thread.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: Artful Codger
Date: 14 May 10 - 08:15 PM

That's curious, Anglo, considering I used Barfly to create the MIDI. Anyway, you should still be able to generate a score through Concertina.net, and download a MIDI from here. So unless you need to transpose...

Mick, thanks for catching the z5. (Sounds like a train.)

Tootler, if you sing Varsoviana as "-so-vyah-na" (as implied by the syllabification in the music), it scans equally well, and without corruption. It also better matches "Valse"; one tony enough to say "valse" would know the proper pronunciation of "Varsoviana/Varsouviana".

If Varsovania near Pottsylvania?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: Anglo
Date: 15 May 10 - 03:45 PM

Curious indeed. An upgrade to the latest version of BarFly didn't help, but the convert-a-matic did the job nicely. I must say, Codg, that's a remarkable ABC. Very nice work. I posted a simplified version of Dave Moran's tune near the top of this thread, and that's about as complex as I get. I've sung it for years, having got to know the Halliard in the old days.

But I rather like the original tune, so I'll maybe work on an alternative version now I have the words straight (I'd always heard it as "Waltz Sylvania").


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: Tootler
Date: 15 May 10 - 07:39 PM

Codger, you may be technically correct in what you say.

However it does not alter the fact that what many people actually sing is "Varsovania".

While Varsoviana may well scan, nevertheless, it is slightly awkward and does not flow comfortably - at least with the Dave Moran tune which is the one I am familiar with - and so when singing it gets altered - quite possibly unconsciously.

I have not heard the original tune but it may be that it flows better.

I was not trying to justify, simply trying to explain - a point you did not seem to get.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: Artful Codger
Date: 15 May 10 - 09:35 PM

I got it--I wasn't contesting that people often do sing it that way, just as mondegreens by one singer propagate to others, but I doubt it was a difference in "flow" that caused the corruption, but simple misreading. We're more accustomed to "-ania" words than "-iana" words.

And I was only trying to counter-explain, a point that you didn't seem to get.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 May 10 - 11:14 PM

Artful Codger has been sending in some very nice MIDI files for posting recently.
Thanks, AC.
-Joe-

(if you want MIDI files posted, send them to joe@mudcat.org)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: Artful Codger
Date: 16 May 10 - 01:10 AM

Anglo, you may think me daft, but I never figured out how to display a score in Barfly. But when I actually bothered to read the documentation, I discovered split-screen mode, and encountered the same error.

The cause of the problem is simple: delete the "V:1" line right after the "K:A" line. I had earlier used simple numbers (1, 2, 3) for voice identifiers, then switched to prefixed ids (V1, P1, P2). That line was a holdover I neglected to remove.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Feb 13 - 09:22 AM

Thanks for all this help. I've been trying to work out the words from an old Houghton Weavers LP (especially the names of the dances). They however have "Dorothy Drew" (rather than "I") dressed in the pink of fashion. Is it likely that the male author has "lavender gloves"? Chris Sheffield


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Calico Printer's Clerk
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 10 Feb 13 - 02:56 PM

Many people might be surprised to know that I first heard this song sung by the late Michael Marra [ RIP ], and a fine job he made of it too. I've always liked it ever since. Before writing his own songs and playing mainly piano, Michael used to sing and play guitar in a duo with another fine gentleman from Dundee by the name of Gus Foy, alas, also sadly no longer with us. They appeared several times at the Blairgowrie Folk Club, in the early 1970s.


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