Which guitar?

Subject: Which guitar?
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 17 Oct 02 - 07:18 PM

I know that there have been many threads on guitars, and my mate is still toying with building one. But this is an opinion request.

If I had about £500-600 to spend on buying an acoustic guitar or electro Acoustic, which would you suggest and why?

I am not a brilliant player, I play a mixture of celiedh tunes and other folk tunes. I sometimes finger pick, mostly I use plectrums for flat picking or strumming. The guitar has to have a good volume, not be too middle or treble biased, with a good booming bass.It does not need to be an electro acoustic, as on rare occasions it can be miked up.

I assume the UK because unless I know someone who can get one and bring it in from the states, I am stuck to high UK prices

Thanks

Eric

What fits the bill in your experience?

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: Midchuck
Date: 17 Oct 02 - 07:58 PM

At that price level, Martin 000-15S.

12-fret, round-shoulder, slothead, with wider (1 3/4" at nut) neck. 000- size is the largest of the small bodies - just a half an inch narrower at the lower bout than a dreadnought, but narrow waist, so it looks a lot smaller.

The 15s are Martin's cheapest line that're all solid woods. They're all mahogany, even the tops. Perhaps a little "darker" (that's the best word I can think of) sounding than a spruce top, but I love the sound. And the 000-15s is sort of a freak, in terms of the amount of power it produces from the size of the instrument. 12-fret slotheads tend to be louder than 14-fret solid heads the same size and quality. There are several theories why.

To see specifics, go here, click on "15 series" at the left, then on "000-15S" when the list comes up.

I got one, new from a dealer, here in the States, for US$650.00, more or less. That would be 420 or 430 or so British Pounds. I don't know how much the markup is crossing the ocean, but I guess it's a lot.

Just one opinion.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 03:05 AM

I'll second the 15 series Martin idea. I have two of them: a 00 and a 12 string J. I've played the 000 slot-head and like it a lot. If I had the money to spare, I'd buy one. But, for an all-round general purpose axe my vote would go to the six-string J-15. I love Martin's J body and could kick myself squarely in the ass for missing a chance to buy a J-40 for $1,200 USD a couple of years ago. If you're not familiar with this body size, don't let the "J for Jumbo" designator fool you. It is not the same size as Gibson or Guild's big jumbos (like the J-200). It's quite a bit smaller. The volume of air in the box is about the same as a dreadnought, but it has a more pronounced waist which makes it a more comfortable guitar to play and makes it much more suitable for finger-picking than a D.

If all of my guitars were stolen tomorrow and I had to go buy just one guitar, the J-15 would be it.

Bruce

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: mooman
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 04:02 AM

Eric...I think the Lakewood M-1 and D-1 might come in at around that price and are excellent value for a totally solid wood guitar.

Best regards,

Richard

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: mooman
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 04:04 AM

Another excellent make at that price is Alhambra (made in Spain). I tried several recently here in Brussels and was very impressed.

Richard

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: mooman
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 04:17 AM

Eric, here are some blickables:

Alhambra acoustic guitars

Lakewood guitars

Cheers mate!

Richard

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: 53
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 09:47 AM

Try a Taylor Big Baby.

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 09:54 AM

The esteemed Spot the Dog has played a Yamaha for many a year and swears by it. He has also just purchased another one (Electro Accoustic - APX 6?) for ceilidh band work. Have a word with him if you are over at Swinton.

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: GUEST,Les in Manchester
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 01:30 PM

Go to the biggest guitar shop you can find that will let you play lots of guitars and play them til you find the one you like. Hobgoblin, Manchester is brilliant. Sound Control, Salford are pretty good

I think Martins are overpriced. Lots of others are just as good and sometimes better.

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 01:34 PM

I have a good sounding (despite Brussels!!) Yamaha DW 4SC which i love, the Mrs thinks I'm nutty to want ANOTHER guitar. I always wanted a Gibson hummingbird, but can't afford. The Yamaha compass series appeals, and SO does a Martin. Richard you have excellent guitars. Was it your Lakewood? I was playing in May?

Thanks everyone, keep em coming-Christmas isn't far away!!!!

?Will I take it to Groningen?

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 01:36 PM

Would I be better off going new or second hand?

Why do we pay so much in the UK?

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: Wesley S
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 01:56 PM

I'm a big fan of the OM size. I hope you have a chance to play a few of those. To me it's a great all round guitar. If I could only have one guitar { heaven forbid } that had to do everything I think I'd pick an OM. Good luck and let us know what you end up with.

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: ChanteyMatt
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 03:22 PM

I concur with Les is Manchester, play as many guitars as you can. It doesn't matter whether it's new or used. You'll find an instrument that "speaks" to you. You'll know it when you find it. Be patient. I've bought several "adequate" guitars. Now, I'm having one made just for me. It's more than I can easily afford but....

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: Allan Dennehy
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 06:34 PM

Erik, we pay more for American guitars over here in Europe because there's an extra duty on goods from outside the EU. But basically you are looking for the best guitar at the right price. I would buy used if I was you. You might get a used Lowden from Northern Ireland at that price. Have a look at the Martins as well. And most important of all, BE PATIENT!!

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 18 Oct 02 - 06:39 PM

Oh, I am patient believe me. I waited years and years to buy my Yamaha- After wanting an unaffordable Humingbird, I always wanted an ovation, but when I played both of them side by side-the Yam, came out on top for purely acoustic work.

I know why we pay more, but if you go around europe many guitars are priced less than the UK. The UK is well overpriced for most things!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: 53
Date: 19 Oct 02 - 10:39 AM

Taylor Big Baby, I'm sure that you'll like it.

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 19 Oct 02 - 10:47 AM

My thirty year old D35 went away for a lot of time consuming work so I was looking for a temporary replacement/spare guitar.I looked quite
hard at the Canadians (Thingy and Patrick) who do some nice built-in
pick-up acustics,but finished up with a Tanglewood Earth series.The
one I got is the top of the range,cut away, Fishman electrics,gold plate and yards of abalone,but I am a known Poseur so all the flash is not important to most people.The Earth series start at about £350

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 19 Oct 02 - 04:04 PM

Thankyou. I might have a look at the Martin, though a 2nd hand Lowden sounds good. Simon Patrick make nice stuff- I know you have to try before you buy, and I might consider the compass series Yam, which spot plays, and let me have a go at. I don't want flash! (sit in the corner that's me!)

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 19 Oct 02 - 05:24 PM

The lower range of Earths arent flash,but the one I bought is.

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: GUEST,The Ultimate Les Paul
Date: 19 Oct 02 - 08:04 PM

The Ultimate Les Paul ? - A Stringkiller guitar gallery
http://www.ifrance.com/parkerguitar/index.htm

Stringkiller Guitar review -
The Ultimate Les Paul
http://www.ifrance.com/parkerguitar/tokai.html


Enjoy
Bruce
Bruce Stringkiller -- Dr Pickup Vocals and Guitar
http://www.geocities.com/drpickup/
Tel [phone] Fax [phone] .

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: GUEST,Stingkiller
Date: 19 Oct 02 - 08:09 PM

Check this Telecaster Shoot out, with sound files
http://www.geocities.com/alecds/tsintro.html

You can see and hear
the winner of Stringkiller's Telecaster shootout ;-)
Tom Anderson Hollow T 1994
Fender Telecaster 52 Reissue model (1990)
Thibaut's Telecaster 1999
Fender Telecaster Custom 62 Reissue model
G&L ASAT Early 90s model

Comments and feedback apreciated ;-)
Stringkiller

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: GUEST,Miss Parker
Date: 19 Oct 02 - 08:14 PM

Parker Fly guitar - check out this review
Pictures http://www.geocities.com/alecds/index.htm
Text http://www.ifrance.com/parkerguitar/mp.html
[e-mail]
www.geocities.com/stringkiller

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 20 Oct 02 - 07:48 PM

Anybody know anything about Wesley cedar guitars? Supposed to be hand build in Korea.

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 22 Oct 02 - 07:22 PM

Well today-I'm off to start looking. The LL series from Yamaha look intersting as well.Is a bottom end Martin a better guitar than a mid, to top range guitar from other manufacturers?

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 22 Oct 02 - 08:35 PM

Is a bottom end Martin a better guitar than a mid, to top range guitar from other manufacturers?

An impossible question to answer. It would depend entirely on who the other manufacturer is. But, since you mention Yamahas... IMHO Yamaha's better guitars are at least as good as any Martin priced below the Standard Series (D-18, D-28 etc.) and some folks think that their top-of-the line guitars are as good as anything Martin makes.

Bruce

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 23 Oct 02 - 02:33 PM

Having spent an afternoon playing various guitars, from Martin, S&P, Art Luthier, Seagull, through Takamine and Tanglewoods- I picked up a Yam LD- I was so familiar with it I nearly got it there and then. I do like the Yams, and this sounded good (maybe I didn't, but the guitar did) Still want to try a LL series. There seemed to be little difference between the Saegull/S&P's and Art L, maybe because they are all made by the same people. Still looking.

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 05 Nov 02 - 05:24 PM

Still working on this, but can anyone in the US tell me the cost out there of;The Seagull 20th aniversaire guitar, I comes complete with a "Fort"EPP case-they won't ship them over here until 2003-just enquiring

Thanks

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: CraigS
Date: 05 Nov 02 - 06:32 PM

There's a 30% import duty on non-EEC goods, but the real reason we pay higher prices in the UK is that there are two more middleman stages for the goods to go through. The old adage is pounds for dollars - the dollar price is what you pay in pounds when it gets to this side of the pond. This works similarly for discounts, so if you find a discounted US price on the net, the cheapest price you will find in UK will be the same in pounds. The Seagulls and Michael & Patricks are better value in the UK than the big US makes because the supply line is shorter (two men and a typewriter in Huddersfield - no big offices to pay for).

It is almost always better to buy second-hand, but you do need to know what you are buying, and you can't always trust that "friend who knows about guitars" . I know that from the day I bought one for a friend which had a "lifted" bridge -and I had not noticed!


Buying from the US -
There are difficulties in buying second-hand from the US because the Americans tend to forgive repaired cracks, which we do not in the UK. Youi may find a crack unacceptable that an American would just put down to the climate. I remember looking at Dave Van Ronk's old Guild once, and thinking that in GB it would have to be stood on to look that bad! On the other hand, if you buy from a trustworthy supplier in the US there should not be too much trouble, particularly if you buy new. You do not have the opportunity, however, to try the stock and find the really good ones. The real trick in buying a guitar from the US and importing it yourself is in evading the customs duty. This is illegal, and you should be ashamed for even contemplating it. But some people do it by making sure that the transit insurance from the US end is really low, like $200 on a $2700 guitar. The customs men rate the duty on the insured value, so the duty you pay is lower. You can insure the goods from the UK end, so if there's a mishap you are properly insured. There are a few (two or three) customs men who are trained to spot this dodge by valuing the instrument properly, and they work at Heathrow and Dover, so if you import your instruments via Birmingham/ Manchester/Luton/Glasgow they are unlikely to pick up on it. The savings of buying a US guitar direct are so good that it is worth the risk - if you don't like it, you can probably sell it privately for what you paid for it.

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: Mr Furrow
Date: 05 Nov 02 - 06:38 PM

I have to add my support for the Martin 15 series. We recently fell in love with (and just had to acquire) a D15 which is a Dreadnought with solid mahogany top, back and sides. For a new uitar this thing has a stunningly "big" sound with a deep hearty mid-bass and bell-like upper register. The neck is a dream to play and if your fingers get too sore to play it - you can just smell it --mmmmmmmmmhhhhhhh!

Very reasonable price too.

Cheers
Jon

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Nov 02 - 09:49 PM

Lots of good suggestions here, but I still think a really GOOD Yamaha is a better deal for the money than anything else out there. It comes down to each individual guitar though. You've just gotta find one you really like.

- LH

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: Willie-O
Date: 05 Nov 02 - 10:20 PM

I don't entirely get it...if there's this big whacking protectionist tariff on imported instruments, isn't there a reason for that other than to complicate your life and give customs officers a rationale for special training in guitar valuation fraud???

And wouldn't the reason be to encourage a domestic guitar manufacture industry, at all price levels, somewhere in the EU?

So are those good medium price European guitars out there, or is this just counterproductive protectionism? (I'm fine with protectionism if it serves a useful purpose.)

I know about Lowdens and Fyldes, aren't there more?

I've often wondered, what do the customs people do if you "repatriate" a used guitar to its country of origin?

W-O

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: GUEST,Richie
Date: 05 Nov 02 - 10:31 PM

If caught you are sent to guitar purgatory where you jam with Milton and his Paradise Lost Band. You'll probably need to learn "Down by the River" by Neil Young and some songs by STYX.

Please be careful,

-Richie

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 02:16 PM

Now, now lads. I wasn't suggesting anything illegal, and am aware of the pitfalls of import. It was a simple question about comparative prices. Your replies are really helpful for which I thankyou. I am still in a mind for the Yam LL series, they sound good, are well made and as I have said my DWS 4 is a lovelly guitar.There are some good european guitars. Guitar buyer was really singing the praise of a Czech made one this month. It would seem to give most a run for their money. I am still not of one mind yet, which to go for.So please keep up the thoughts and comments, they are helpful from such an well informed bunch as found on the cat.

Cheers

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: GUEST,Chaz
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 07:28 PM

I couldn't say which new guitar...I paid $250 to have a 1930's Martin f-hole repaired and it plays just fine.

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: GUEST,Joe Random
Date: 10 Dec 08 - 11:27 PM

I have a Gibson B-25. Astounding instrument. Having said that, I am about to buy my son his first guitar and I am looking at used Yamahaa. Compass is my first choice for him.

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 03:10 AM

On the topic of importing guitars from outside the EC:-

The duty on guitars imported from the USA is about 4%, not 30%. But there's also VAT to add (was 17.5%, now 15%), and that's calculated on what you paid for the guitar, plus the shipping charges, plus the duty. Bummer!

Bu-u-u-u-t-t-t, when the X-Rate was good (like last year when it was around GBP 1.00 = USD 2.00) it was still a lot cheaper to buy from the States and have the guitar shipped. Now, with the X-Rate down to 1.45-ish, it's not such an attractive proposition.

The main reason Martins are so expensive in the UK is that UK dealers won't give the large discounts that US dealers do. I got 40% off list when I bought my OM from MFG in Naples, Florida. That, coupled with a fantastic X-Rate made it a great bargain, even with the extra Duty and VAT added.

And on the topic of Duty/VAT evasion, my advice is........DON'T! If you're caught, you'll have to pay the Duty and VAT, plus a large fine, AND they have the right to confiscate the guitar. What kinda half-arsed idea is that?

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 05:24 AM

If you've got that kind of brass to spend, try a Tanglewood.

I paid about 400 (GBP) for mine, and I wouldn't swap her for anything. She might have been hand-luthiered for me.

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: Chris Green
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 07:20 AM

I've just had one built for me by Rob Armstrong. It's light and tactile, but sounds like a symphony orchestra. It's also hands down the best guitar I've ever played. I would unhesitatingly recommmend him to anyone!

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: Bru
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 01:46 PM

We've had the importing guitars one before, and I've done it. Bought a Martin 12 stringer a couple of years ago. Best price I could find here at the time was about £860 for the DM12. Found a guy in New York selling one S/H for $795 - which worked out around £396. The insured postage set me back 68 quid. It left NY on Thursday afternoon, was in Coventry 24 hours later being assesed for customs. They had it until Monday, and I picked it up in my local Parcel Force Depot in Cheshire on the Tuesday. Cost me a further £115 in VAT, Duty (4%) and handling (12 quid).

Although I thought it was bit much paying VAT on the postage, it still came as a very cheap Martin guitar, in perfect condition, original Martin case, and with the original paperwork from the factory. 10 out of 10 for the seller.

Another good guitar I bought earlier this year was one of the new Guild GAD12. Bought it cheaply from a guy who couldn't get on with a 12 stringer. Unbelievable build quality and finish.

Subject: RE: Which guitar?
From: Nick
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 04:42 PM

I also have a Tanglewood that I love.

Very reasonably priced, nice sound, great action, neck feels lovely - a friend who plays a Martin D18 loves it and can't believe what I paid for it.

Mind you we haven't swapped guitars yet :) so he's no idiot