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Heading into the Studio
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Subject: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 02 Nov 02 - 08:48 AM Well, I'm heading into the studio at the end of November. I have a great top of the ladder producer, and a great little record company, creating this dream for me. It's my first CD, though, and any helpful advice on what to say, think or do while recording is welcome please. I am used to singing WITH other people....in the classes I teach, or at song circle, or on acoustic open stages. This is so different. How can I relax into that 'live' feeling when it's not a 'live' CD? ~black walnut |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: Charley Noble Date: 02 Nov 02 - 09:46 AM Bring some friends with you to sing to. Avoid overprocessing what is recorded; it's far better to record it just the way you think it should be directly than have some techie to recreate "what you think you should sound like" from what you actually sing. And you should save a lot of money in the process. The actual recording space can be critical as well. If you're looking for a "bright live sound" such as you might expect in a small church hall, you don't want to be in an accoustically baffled cubicle. Charley Noble, who's been there! |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 02 Nov 02 - 11:34 AM If I can't bring the friends in with their skins on, I might take some photos of them with me and tape them up on the walls. Involving friends somehow is a really good idea, Charley. It's all going to take place in the studio, not in a lively room, I'm afraid. It's just not practical in this case to move things around. So I'm looking for advice on pacing, on what to think about or imagine....how to keep thinking good thoughts and not become submerged in the newness of the technical process. For instance, Shelly Posen suggested I practice singing into a stationary pop bottle while keeping loose and dancey in the rest of my body. ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: GUEST,Billy Date: 03 Nov 02 - 12:16 AM From my experience, studios are the worst places to record folk music. The very nature of the genre needs an audience. Some studios have "live" rooms (all wood walls and ceilings) but most rely on electronic sound processors. To me, the absolute example of this is the great Stan Rogers' overproduced studio albums vs. his "Live In Halifax". If you perform better in an audience setting, hire an engineer who will haul his gear out to a a concert setting and invite friends to attend. Tell them to wait five seconds before starting to applaud and expect to hear the same song several times. Buy them a few beers. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: Peg Date: 03 Nov 02 - 01:18 AM get comfortable in the place. Spend some time there if at all possible before you are "on the clock." Chat with and get comfortable with the engineers and technicians if at all possible. This can help you relax more and perhaps visualize in the way you need to to create that comfy publike feeling... good luck! Keep us posted. Peg |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: Stephen L. Rich Date: 03 Nov 02 - 03:03 AM Have a solid idea of what you want to do and how you want it done (material, arrangements, etc.) BEFORE you set foot in the studio. figuring it out when you get there costs money! Don't worry too much if the first playback of a given track sounds a little flat (audio-wise, I mean). Concentrate on getting a lively performance. You can tweak the audio later when you're doing the final mix. When you do the final mix adjust track by track. Listen to the rhythm track seperately and get it as good as you can. Then listen to the guitar track (or guitar and vocal track if you've done it that way) get THAT as good as you can. Then listen to both tracks and balance them against one another.Do the with each track until you are finished with evrey track. As you go you or the engineer should be writing down (or logging into the computer) which audio settings were used for which sequence on which track when you get to the final mix you know what you're adjusting from or to. Prepare to spend a LOOONG, BOOOORRRRRING time on this part. It is the most detailed and labor intensive portion of the whole project. It can also be the part that makes or breaks the project. It's amazing how much can be fixed or rescued in the mixing and editing phase. If your instrument has a pickup USE IT! Plug directly into the board AND mike it. This gives you a wider range of audio fraquencies to work with when you get to a final mix. It gives you options at the other end. Break a leg! Stephen Lee |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 03 Nov 02 - 07:50 AM Thank you so much for all the good thoughts and ideas. It's obvious that you know the process well. This one is going to be an early childhood music CD....a lot of traditional, some original material, and a couple of songs we're paying royalties to record. It will be fairly simple and clean....so no bubbly pub feeling! I'll be singing, playing my celtic harp, and some piano, but a variety of other instruments will be added later. I have a superb producer-engineer duo and I'm told that the best thing for me to do is to put myself in their hands. I will be there for the mixing and helping out, but they are the sound team. The first time I was in the studio, to select a mic (a fun process!), I got a bad headache from the lighting. I didn't realize that there was a dimmer on the lights, until someone told me afterward. Hopefully that experience will have taught me to speak up if there are any physical issues that are bothering me. You know, I was thinking....a 'live' album, with squealing babies and chatting parents in the background, might make for an interesting listen.....or not. ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: alanabit Date: 03 Nov 02 - 08:05 AM I never used to like recording. Most studios I knew were underground, because it was easier and cheaper for the soundproofing. I used to come out with a ringing headache from the lack of light and the strain of trying to achieve simple accuracy. Practising with a metronome beforehand can save a lot of time and frustration in the studio - for you and the techs. You need them on your side. The best advice that has come up here so far though is to do it with friends. If you and the studio people get on with each other the time will go by much faster. Good luck. Alan. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 03 Nov 02 - 09:04 AM Practicing with a metronome is a great idea....it's a comfortable one for me, too, with my classical music background. Tony Burns came over and played guitar for me the other evening while I just sang that songs. That helped too. It took me away from only listening to myself in a room all alone. I always sing better when I'm singing with my musical friends. That's probably one of the biggest issues for me with the recording process...the apparent need to separate out the voices and the various instruments from one another so much. That's why I think I'm going to have to somehow imagine that they're there all playing along with me at the same time. Another issue is, as some of you have pegged it, the 'atmosphere' of the studio. It doesn't exactly have the comfort factor of a singaround in somebody's living room. I may have to redecorate.... ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: Willie-O Date: 03 Nov 02 - 09:26 AM A studio is a different type of environment but it is one that is designed to record music in, which should go a long way towards making it comfortable, when working with a sympathetic producer/engineer (and why work with any other kind?) It's nice to get a more live room feeling, but a good engineer can get that sound by using a "room mike". Do everything you can to not get headaches or other distractions. Micro-managing your comfort is part of the job. Friendlier lighting, pillows, whatever. You will be happy with the results. And in regards to guest Billy's comments about Stan Rogers' albums, some of the studio albums are live-feeling and some are heavily produced--this was by design. Fogarty's Cove and For the Family, in particular, being the former. It's all a matter of production approach, not of whether they were studio-recorded. You'll do fine. W-O |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 05 Nov 02 - 08:54 AM Very encouraging! Thanks, W. ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: C-flat Date: 05 Nov 02 - 01:36 PM Studios can be very dry and punishing on the vocal chords. Make sure you've got something to keep your throat refreshed. As already mentioned, it's a laborious process so be patient and relaxed. Good luck. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 14 Nov 02 - 03:33 PM Thanks. I'll need it. And much more than luck. I just found out that I have cysts on what's left of my thyroid (I had a partial thyroidectomy for the same reason 5 years ago). Now I know why it's been so difficult to sing for the past while. It is quite worrisome. No decisions made yet as to how to proceed, but I do know that we will still begin recording in just a little over a week. I didn't say this above, but Ken Whitely is producing this, along with Kathy Reid-Naiman (wife of Arnie), for Merriweather Records. Ken is amazing. He has helped me to come up with some very fun and creative arrangements. I'll be singing, and we'll be playing, between us, everything from piano to harp to dulcimer to the red-backed boinger! What an incredible experience! ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 17 Nov 02 - 10:37 AM Update: Good news! The nodules are very small and non-threatening. I will be going to talk with the surgeon in January, but seriously doubt that any direct action will be taken. ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: Rick Fielding Date: 17 Nov 02 - 10:58 AM That is SUCH great news Walnut. You had me worried there. All the luck in the world on your project. Rick |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 26 Nov 02 - 08:54 AM Day One yesterday. Calm and relaxed. It was great. We did the bedtracks for 7 songs already. ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: MMario Date: 26 Nov 02 - 08:56 AM great to hear. (Note to self - TALK to the studio! Schedule a time! Do it!) |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 28 Nov 02 - 07:48 AM Yes, MMario....listen to yourself! Yesterday was awesome. Ben Grossman came in to do some percussion. He and Ken and I played the bedtrack instrumental together for the title song, and Ben then added percussion to several songs we'd recorded earlier. The learning curve is huge....I now know the meaning of the words "punch", "tag", and "turnaround" and "push". I have my favourite earphones, and I know the importance of prying off my clicky wedding ring before playing the piano. The bright lights are off....we just use lamps. I'm trying to learn how to sing into a mic without being self-conscious. I'm primarily a music teacher in real life,and singing into a mic is very different from singing to a room full of responsive and participating chldren and grownups. I'll probably get the hang of it by the time it's all over. Today Kirk Elliot and Arnie Naiman are going to play some fiddle and banjo. It is such a joy to hear my tunes and songs come alive like this. ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: gwonya Date: 28 Nov 02 - 09:13 AM Really nice thread to follow BW...keep us posted eh! - God knows you have some amazing musicians helping you out over there. Giver! |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 29 Nov 02 - 08:30 AM Thanks gwonya! Yesterday Kirk played violin, fiddle (I don't have to tell you the difference, do I?) and Irish whistle. He made the wind whistle through the trees on "Far in the Wood"....lovely! Kirk is one of the funniest people on the planet. He knows children's music very well, having played for many years with Sharon Lois & Bram, and Kirk & Magoo. What fun to have him be part of this project. Arnie Naiman came in later in the day to play fretless and fretted banjos. I know that a lot of you Mudcatters already know that Arnie is one of the top of the ladder banjo players on this planet. I heard a bit from his new CD produced in the same studio only a few days back...it is fabulous! As much as I am thrilled to my fillings and with the brilliant musicians playing on my CD, I have to say that my favourite part of yesterday was doing the sound effects with Ken for "Here's a cup and here's a cup, and here's a pot of tea....Pour a cup and pour a cup, and drink it up with me (slurp), and drink it up with me (slurp)." Ken and I each held cups and saucers which rattled, and he poured the tea into them. It worked perfectly the very first time. It sounds so funny! Last month I had a bad bout of laryngitis....no singing or speaking voice at all for a week and a half. It's taken a while to feel that I can sing with a sense of freedom again, but my voice is co-operating better every day. We usually end the day at 5 o'clock. Yesterday, at 10 minutes to 5, I felt inspired to sing the vocals to the bedtrack of the title track, "Up and Over the Moon". It just felt like the right time for my voice to sing that song. So we did it. It went quickly in just a couple of takes and I feel really good about it. Today, Jeff Morrison is coming by with his guitar. Jeff is one of the best guitar players with a day job I've ever known. He's been my music partner and friend for 5 or so years now. It's a pleasure to know you, Jeff. ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: Willie-O Date: 29 Nov 02 - 08:45 AM You really have the cream of Toronto's crop there. Kirk is a complete riot. And very conversant with the fiddle/violin dichotomy. If he comes by again tell him to make sure to get to Blue Skies this year. W-O |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: Guy Wolff Date: 29 Nov 02 - 11:01 AM It sounds like your having a good time and that is as inportant as anything.. It is people who will hear it in the end and relate to it..Even if you have a great prodution team it is helpful to get this little idea into your thinking.. : when you are on stage and playing with people the music made is three dementional.. Emagine that in the studio you are putting music under a flat sheet of glass . everything becomes TWO Dementional.. All the additions that sound great on stage take space away from your bigger theame so everything becomes clouded if "over produced".. Less, most times , is more in this invirnment. Thats where the briliance of Guys like Ry Cooder and Martin Carthy come through and inspire us so..THe people you have helping are top notch so I'm shore you are already there . I cant wait to hear the finished product.. Great luck and keep having fun with it.. I agree that the process of making a cd is as educatioal as anything else Ive done in my music life.. Watch out ,though , the process is Habit Forming !!!!! All the best Guy Wolff <><><><><><><><><><><><><><> |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: Rick Fielding Date: 29 Nov 02 - 11:04 AM It's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, ain't it? Keep having fun! Rick |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 29 Nov 02 - 10:26 PM Hey, Rick, I used to work with a guy who used to talk about the joy of chewing glass. Seriously folks, it's total fun. I have the greatest producer (Ken and I compare socks first thing every morning), and the best engineer (Nik Tjelios, mandolin player with Jughead), that I could have ever imagined. Kathy (a.k.a. Merriweather Records) is my personal cheerleader and friend. My excellent hub is dealing with the homefront with finesse, leaving me able to concentrate on things in the studio instead of what's for supper and whether the sweaters came out of the washing machine. Skipping back to earlier in the week, I realize that I didn't mention that we made history in this particular basement studio when we recorded 3 dulcimers playing together. Kathy, Ken and I did Little Tommy Tinker, as a round. I played a low voice on my 4rth squeakless Larkin string. I think the trio sounds great. And I didn't say much about Ben Grossman, did I? What to say, in just a few words? His talent is mezmerizing. He is someone whose music I've admired for many years from a distance. To play with Ben and Ken on one track (me on piano, Ben on zarb, and Ken on bass fiddle) was a few minutes of heaven. On other songs he's added bodhran, drum, triangle, and shaker. Everything he does is tasteful and musical. And he's SUCH A NICE GUY! Well, 5 full and enthusiastic days behind us, and all but one bedtrack completed. More overdubs and resings next week. I must brush up on my harp glissandos this weekend.... ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 29 Nov 02 - 10:28 PM I just remembered - Ben played tambourine too (just for the record). And brilliant it was. ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 03 Dec 02 - 08:55 AM Yesterday I added lever harp in the morning to a couple of bedtracks, and in the afternoon jazz flute and sax player, Ernie Tollar, came in. I marvel at the ability of studio musicians (he plays in many live ensembles as well) to learn new songs so quickly and add wonderful licks in just the right spots. Ben played the bones too (must keep the record accurate!). ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: GUEST,Sam Pirt Date: 03 Dec 02 - 02:03 PM Hi Well congrats on the record. My advice is have someone there listening you can trust. That way they will help you decide to keep a take or not. You want it fresh, well avoide if you can put the instruments on individually. This can really take the guts out of it sometimes. Relax and enjoy, so what if you have to sing it again it WILL BE WORTH IT. BE HAPPY with the core recording before they are mastered or mixed that way you will know the ingredients are fine, you now have to be selective with the decorations on top, and all you need for that is good taste, often simplisity not too much reverb!!! happy recording, Sam Just think, you also end up with a momento or 1000!! afterwards!!! |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 04 Dec 02 - 08:10 AM Ernie Tollar did more playing yesterday morning. In the afternoon, Eve Goldberg and Kathy Reid-Naiman came in to record some harmonies. At one point we had Eve, Kathy, Ken and I all singing into one mic. We are all having so much fun in the studio....I'm sure it will spill over into the songs. ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 04 Dec 02 - 09:10 AM Just picking up on something that Sam Pirt said above..."so what if you have to sing it again it WILL BE WORTH IT." I am learning the truth of that. When I first sang, I felt like every second mattered. But after being there through all of the seasoned studio musician's performances, I have been able to see that the "starting and stopping and doing it again" is all part of the regular flow of the studio, and not something they were just doing for me (or to me). Once I got that into my head, I started to relax more. Thank you to everyone who has been offering suggestions here. I think that this thread could be very helpful down the road to others who might be thinking about doing a first recording. ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 07 Dec 02 - 10:22 AM WE'RE MIXING! Geez, just when I thought it was winding down, there's so much more to learn! I have to learn how to listen to this all over again. Objectively. I'd always thought that mixing was something that engineers and producers did behind closed doors. I didn't know that I might have an influence on the end product at this stage. Because of my need to get back to work next week, the rest of the work will take place in bits and pieces until early January. And I'll begin to concentrate on the booklet. 2 songs are finished. It's really happening. My heart won't stop pounding. (Or is that just the coffee.....?!) ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 11 Dec 02 - 01:59 PM It takes a lot longer on this end of the project. Mixing, artwork, booklet, design, printing....ETA of finished product is late March 2003. And then ~ a party! ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: dwditty Date: 11 Dec 02 - 08:00 PM Thanks for this thread, walnut. I will record in a studio for the first time in just about a week from now. It will just be me and my guitar, so I guess that pretty much limits where I can place the blame if the results are less than I expect. The tips here are great. I like the idea of taking a few pics of those I often sing to. I have been doing my homework....setting up a list of songs in the order of what I hope to get down first. Practicing (although I will now find an online metronome to use for this last week), practicing, and more practicing. I am so looking forward to seeing what, if anything, I can get to stick to tape. And thanks to all who contributed here. It is indeed a useful thread for others, as you suspected, Walnut. dw |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 12 Dec 02 - 09:22 AM That's fantastic, dw! I hope you have as much fun as I did. I had that advantage of lots of people playing instruments, including the producer, so that took a lot of the pressure off. I'm not sure that making a list of the order of the songs is so important....you might want to sing the song that feels right to sing at the time. The order can change later on the CD. I took little photo albums with me, with pictures of friends I like to sing with, and who make me laugh when I'm with them. That always put me in a good mood, and helped me to not take myself too seriously. Be sure to get some outside walks...the sunshine is precious these days north of the equator, and it really does make you feel better to get real rays and some exercise! Remember that nothing is permanent until it's permanent. You can always sing it/ play it again. That's the fun of recording.... Enjoy!!! ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 12 Dec 02 - 07:40 PM Today we mixed at the studio again, and as always, I felt blessed to be there with Kathy, Ken and Nik, three very generous and talented musicians and friends. They've taken these simple songs and added quite a bit of their own love and magic. Thanks to everyone. Kathy, Ken, Nik, Eve, Kirk, Arnie, Ben, Ernie, Jeff, Bill, Kevin, Lisa, Tony, Ellen, BenW, Marilyn, Art, Sharon, Jodie..... ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 13 Dec 02 - 07:27 AM ...and Eileen and Katherine. ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 11 Jan 03 - 09:30 AM Update: Everything is mixed now. We finished that process two days ago. Now we have 29 tracks (I kid you not...this is an early childhood CD and a few of the tracks are very short) and over the next few days we have to try to put into a good sequence. This is so difficult! There are many factors to consider - theme, key, style, instruments, and length of each track. Everytime I move one song to a new position it's like playing dominos; something else needs to get changed as well. Fortunately we have a few of the beginning and ending songs settled. The first 3 songs set up the tone of the whole CD (title song which is an upbeat lullabye "Up and Over the Moon", then a dance song, followed by a fun little song with lots of sound effects). The ending songs are lullabyes, so in a sense the CD goes full circle. The last track is a medley, and it's very instrumental, and so sleepy, and so beautiful, ending with violin and harp. So, once the whole order of tracks is decided, I can finish the booklet, get the booklet, artwork and photo to the designer, and then take a deep breath. We are still aiming for a completion date in mid to late March . No more days in the studio for this project. I'm really going to miss it. Ken's place is full of creativity and fun and challenge. I can't believe what's happened there in only a few weeks....songs, instruments, arrangements, falafels....and now it's almost all finished! ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: GUEST,Gwonya Date: 11 Jan 03 - 01:55 PM Congrats BW. Hope to hear more about your release party. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 31 Jan 03 - 07:59 AM Booklet is almost ready and will be sent to the designer this weekend. (Many hours of work - finally seeing the end of the tunnel). Photos are done. (I'll finally put one into the Mudcat Member Photos!) Disc is nearly mastered. (Can't wait to hear the finished product.) Due date is mid to late March. It really is like having a baby! Oh, I'll certainly have to have some kind of a celebration when it's all finished. Jeff and I are opening for Curry, Perlman and Stevens in March, and although it's a 'grownups' concert, I hope to have the CD ready for that, and sing a couple of songs from it. Any other ideas? ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: sian, west wales Date: 31 Jan 03 - 08:10 AM Hmmm ... perhaps the Mudcat CD series should have a special one for early childhood ... ? sian |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 31 Jan 03 - 02:13 PM WOW! What a fun idea! Wouldn't that be something?! ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 03 Feb 03 - 11:37 AM To anyone contemplating putting out a CD...give yourself LOADS of time to prepare the booklet. It takes many many long hours to get it right, especially if you are going to include lyrics and photos. ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: p.j. Date: 03 Feb 03 - 01:43 PM Congratulations darlin'! Sounds like you had a great time in the process, and learned a lot as well, what a terrific experience. I hope you keep on having fun through the release and promotion phase. I bet you will, with the great attitude you've shown so far. With all the bumps, it's still a great ride, huh? Please keep us posted on how and when we can get it! And when are you touring the CD in California....? p.j. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 03 Feb 03 - 02:15 PM All expenses paid? I'll come to CA today; there's a freezing rain warning here!! Thanks, p.j.! Stay tuned for www.debbiecarroll.com. It's in the works. ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 13 Feb 03 - 09:39 AM An observation about waiting. The time between recording the CD and having the finished product in one's hands seems very long. It isn't that long, of course - there is so much to do and nobody's wasting any time doing it. But that wonderful time in the studio happened way back in 2002, and that seems like a long time ago. Since then, there's been the mixing, the mastering, and the preparation of the booklet. The designer sent me the proofs yesterday for the cover and the booklet. We have to look them over carefully and he'll make whatever changes are necessary. And there's the manufacturing process. Methinks the crocuses will be in bloom by the time we are done! It makes me remember the many times I've seen performers go on stage and get really excited when they talk about their newly-released CDs. As a listener you kind of take it all for granted - until you go through the process yourself. ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 25 Feb 03 - 04:36 PM The booklet is ready for the printer!!!! Everything has been checked and revised and rechecked many times. Kirk Elliott has 2 t's. ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 05 Mar 03 - 02:34 PM And now the CD is mastered and gone for production. This thread began last November when the CD was still nothing but an idea in a few people's heads. And now it's almost wrapped in plastic. Everything in between has been fantastic....I've grown as a musician, and learned some things about design and how to proofread over and over and over again. Most importantly, I had a great time in the studio, thanks in part to the support and good advice of you people here at Mudcat. THANK YOU! Oh, when I actually have a finished CD in my hands, in a couple of weeks, I'll say it in a new thread. What should I call that one..."Heading OUT of the Studio"?! ~b.w. |
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Subject: RE: Heading into the Studio From: black walnut Date: 17 Mar 03 - 12:00 PM IT'S FINISHED!!! (and on St. Patrick's Day, too....how perfect is that??!) ~black o'walnut |
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