BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)

Subject: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 06:24 PM

Bobert? Any of you others who re-enact and/or know your stuff, help please!*bg*

I am transcribing old family documents, many of which came from my great-great-grandfather, Abraham Forsythe, who was a Rebel scout/spy. Near as I can tell he was with either Hounshell's Battallion and/ Thurmond's Partisan Rangers.

BUT, my question has to do with old-fashioned handwriting and place names for the Union in WVa, I think. What I am stumped on is a Pass for my ggreat-grandmother to pass safely through enemy lines. It is printed with the blanks filled in by hand. Ah, there's the rub! I can read everything except the name of the town or camp. It looks like maybe "Hawk Fairly?" It is definitely WVa. It is hand-dated May 1862. It gives the place name with this printed above it: "No. 83 Head-Quarters(sic), Mountain Department."

The reason I think it is a Union pass is it says, in part, "This pass is given with the understanding that if the party receiving it be found hereafter in arms against the Government of the United States, or aiding or abetting its enemies, the penalty will be death."

Anyway, do any of you know anything about place names for Union headquarters in the mountains, there? Or, does that unlikely name ring a bell? I could email the image to anyone who might be able to decipher it. I have always been good at that from my days of transcribing doctors' prescriptions into a record book, but this one has me stumped. I've also not gotten anywhere on the usual genealogy sites.

It could also be Hauf/s Gairly? The Gairly looks really definite, but I know that must be wrong!

THANKS!

katpuzzled&cross-eyed:-)

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: ballpienhammer
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 06:38 PM

howdy kat, how about Harper's Ferry? That's about as close as I can guess from your post. I will get you a GOOD ACW site here in a minute...bph from Hallowed Ground

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: GUEST,Chicken Charlie
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 06:39 PM

Katlaughing--

Does "Hacker Valley" fit? Or "Harper's Ferry?" Those would seem to be your best choices.

This is coming from the W VA map index in the World Book Encyc. There are lots of other H's, but those are the only two 4-syllable place names with Ha at the beginning and y at the end.

CC

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: ballpienhammer
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 06:45 PM

ok, try these:
www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/3680/cw/cw-wv.html---and...
www.civilwararchive.com

the second I have used frequently. I haven't tried the first...(but am about to)...hope we helped!

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 06:49 PM

For a while at least, HQ Mountain Dist. was at Harpers Ferry. I have correspondence and orders from the Ferry that a greatgrandfather kept.

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: Kim C
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 07:21 PM

Remember, too, West Virginia wasn't WEST Virginia until 1863. They were part of Virginia, and the Confederacy, till they seceded back INTO the Union.

Harpers Ferry is probably a pretty good guess.

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 07:31 PM

Thanks, all! I thought of Haper's Ferry, too, but the second word on mine, definitely is not Ferry. I have another capital "F" to compair it to and the do not match, it looks like "G." ON the first work, it doesn't look at all like Harper's, sorry.:-) It looks like it has 4-5 letters and the first letter I am just guessing on. The last letter of the first word could be an "f" or "t."

I'll check out those websites bph, thanks! It's frustrating because I've done so well on reading the rest of the stuff! There are lots of mentions of Sewell's Mtn. and Alderson's Ferry.

Guest, Q, aren't the old papers interesting? I have an IOU to my ggranddad from someone named "Poteet." I've posted it to the Pottet family genforum and promised them a copy, without collecting, no interest even.:-)

Thanks a bunch!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Nov 02 - 07:32 PM

Kim, sorry, I meant to say Good Point! Thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: NicoleC
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 12:26 AM

Just a guess -- Harper's Ford?   Some of the places we know as ____'s Ferry were originally known as Ford's. Even at the time, it'd be an old-fashioned way of referring to it.

Kat, if you want to email me the image of the word, I'll take a whack at it. I have some copies of CW-era maps I may be able to compare it to.   And if you've got time on you hands you could try the GNIS server; it's pretty good about have old local names in the database.

They've been moving stuff around -- you'll have to look for the Place Names Database at www.usgs.gov

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: NicoleC
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 01:02 AM

Here ya go, I found the sucker. The free stuff gets harder and harder to find:

USGS GNIS (Geographic Names Information System

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 11:18 AM

Wow, what a resource, Nicole, thank you! Don't know why I've never run into that before.:-)

I didn't have any luck, though, so...I'll PM you for your email addy and take you up on your offer. The other option I think I cna use is to track the Lt. Col. who signed the pass and see where all he is listed for battles, etc. He was L.S. Elliott. It is also signed by somebody M. Taylor, Adjutant.

I will also look for my ggranddad in the Union rolls, something I've not done before. My dad says that picture of him in the old book showed him in a complete Union uniform and had his name under it. It is said that he regularly infiltrated the Union in his roll as a "scout," and it was a Union cap and ball which he brought home and has been passed down.

Thansk, again!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: NicoleC
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 12:33 PM

Well then, you may have the luck of having an ancestor with BOTH Union and Confederate military records! (he may have even applied for pensions from both...)

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 12:55 PM

Kat: I'm sorry but I can't be of much help. Harpers Ferry would make sense is it was Union, then Confederate, then Union again. This entire area shares that similarity so passes were probably used extensively in and around Harpers Ferry.

Harpers Ferry is kind of an interesting battle, for lack of a better word. Stonewall Jackson took a much smaller Confederate force and set cannons up on Maryland Heights (accross the Potomac River in Maryland)
and Loudoun Heights (accross the Shanandoah River in Virginia) and bluffed some 11,000 Union troops into thinking they were surrounded by a large Confederate force who surrendered Harpers Ferry to Jackson.
Sneaky, sneaky.

Ahhh, as fir re-enactments, they are big everywhere around this area, especially over in Northern Virginia.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 01:05 PM

I just got off the phone with the curators section of Harpers Ferry National Park. Since this area was fought over on numerous occasions with each side taking the ground four or five times, Ms. Melinda Day suggests that the printing was often hurried and the spelling very poor. She recommends that you send a clear xerox copy to Mr. John King or Nancy Hatcher at the Harpers Ferry National Park, PO BOX 65, Harpers Ferry, WV 25425. She can be reached at [phone]. Even if the pass was generated at some other location, they will be able to send you in the right direction, and clear the path to the best people to help you. Good Luck!

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 01:18 PM

Wow, thanks, very much, Claymore! I will do.

Nicole, just sent you the image.

Bobert...interesting...I've known next to nothing about that area of the Civil War, so everything I read is of interest. I did find some fantastic write-ups on line, including journals of soldiers, etc.

Sounds like my ol' Abe was in the thick of things.

Thanks, again, you folks are great!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: NicoleC
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 02:06 PM

The folks at the Harper's Ferry would be the best ones to help -- I've encountered some amazingly helpful folks at little historical museums in WV.

Got your email kat -- the handwriting is terrible and looks very hurried.

I *think* the second word is Ferry, spelled "Fairy." The "y" has an abnormally long first stroke, but it still matches the shape of the other y's in the document. Since the concept of "correct' spelling was in it's infancy, you can't really count on it. Phoenetically, it matches. I'm not sold on that first "F" though.

The first word though... wow. That one's tough; it looks like there wasn't quite enough ink on the pen. It's not "Harper's" I don't think, and the last letter is definately not a "k." It might be an h? The first letter looks incomplete -- the writer starts most capital letters with a downstroke (like M and W) with a flourish, but it's not an upstroke either. If I had to guess at something, it's be G or I, the G makes more sense; it doesn't look anything like the other H's in the document. The second letter is an A or O, the third and fourth letters don't have a tail, but could be almost anything.

Best guesses:
Go__h Fairy
Ga__h Fairy
Ga__t Fairy
Go__t Fairy

Is there a Garrett Ferry in the area? It doesn't show up in the GNIS, but that doesn't mean there wasn't one and the name has fallen out of usage.

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: SharonA
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 02:56 PM

I'm just guessing here, not having seen the document or knowing about the Civil War in West Virginia but just looking at some WV town names besides Harper's Ferry:

Gallipolis Ferry? (if that last upstroke of the first word is an "l" with a scribble for the "is" after it?)

Camden on Gauley?

Hacker Valley?

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: NicoleC
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 03:22 PM

There's no v's for reference, but it doesn't look like a V at the beginning of the second word. In modern cursive it looks like a G -- big loop counter-clockwise, small upstroke, small, thin bottom loop clockwise. I think the first loop is a flourish.

I thought about Gallipolis Ferry, but it's just too long, I think. How do the locals pronounce "Gallipolis?"

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 04:06 PM

Wow, that is really helpful, even though we aren't quite there, yet! I just couldn't see anything else, I think because I'd been staring at it too long. I thought that first letter of the first word looked like the number 4, but of course it isn't. Maybe it could be a C? The rest of the word looks like an "au" or "aur" or "arr?" The last one could be a "y", but none of the other y's go up that high. At first I thought it was on old fashioned "s."

On the second word, first letter, I don't think it's an F by comparison to the F in Forsythe just below it. Fairy sounds good as Ferry, but it just doesn't loook like an F. Immediately following the F looks like an "air."

Off to call the reference at Harper's Ferry. Thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 04:18 PM

Could it be Gauly Ferry on the Kanawha? Where Gauly Bridge is now.

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 04:21 PM

Guest, Q! Could be! One of the other receipts I have has "Falls of Kanawha."

Thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: SharonA
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 04:25 PM

Kat: Actually, I have a pretty good track record for deciphering handwriting (though I'm still stumped by doctors' prescriptions!). If you'd like to have me look at the document, please PM me and I'll be happy to take a crack at figuring it out.

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 04:33 PM

I still think the best chance is with the curators and document people at Harpers Ferry. One of the things I was told was that they have a data base that searches names and military units and gives the locations, and the dates at that location, for each of those units. I suspect they may be able to provide the story behind this pass within short order.

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 04:45 PM

Claymore, I just spoke with Linda Day and am going to email it to her in just a few moments. Thanks, again, for that lead!

On second thought, since it really was not West Va, yet, I am wondering if the letters just after the two we can't read, might be Mt for Mountai, rather than a fancy W for West. Then it would be something, something mountain, VA.

Anyway, thanks Sharon for the offer, but I think I'll wait and see what the Harper's Ferry folk have to say. Or, is it Faerie Folk?**BG**

kat

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: NicoleC
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 04:52 PM

You're right, kat! I just looked at it again -- it looks like an M and a tiny "t" mashed up against the VA.

Let us know what the Harper's Ferry folk say -- if they can't decipher it either, maybe the "Mt" will help get some hits in the GNIS.

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 04:56 PM

Thanks, Nicole, for confirming that. You bet I'll keep you all posted. It's a lot of fun to be able to share it with such kind people as you all!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: SharonA
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 04:56 PM

Cool, Kat. Good luck!

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 07:00 PM

Well that's weird. I just posted this twice and it didn't show up! Try again:

Sheesh! I've already received an answer! Claymore, thanks, again! GUEST, Q was spot on. Sharon had a mention of this, too, plus Nicole was on the right track and I even had a couple of good guesses. Here's the reply form the Harper's Ferry folk:

Subject: Re: image
To: Kat LaFrance

Branch Historian John King just walked in the office and provided the following:

Your pass says "Camp Gauley Mt."    This is named after a camp in West
Virginia. There is a town there today and famous for white water boating.

At the bottom is Lt Col Commanding Post rather than Connely.

Good luck in your research efforts,

Melinda Day
Period Exhibits Branch

Now, that tells dad and me more about an old story about my gggranddad Abe. It seems he and a couple of cousins were in the middle of some white water when they lost a paddle or it broke. This left them without any way to navigate and they were fast coming up to some falls. Along about then, one of them yelled, "Abe, if you know any prayers, ya better say 'em now!" Well, ol' Abe couldn't think of anything but the following, so he yelled it out, "Here's your bread, here's your meat, now, you sonsabitches, eat!" Along about that time, some old boy on shore saw them and threw them a rope, thus saving them from the jaws of the falls.

Ever since I can remember that has been a "prayer" in our family. Now I will have to see if Camp Gauley Mtn. and Kanawha Falls are near one another and I may have the location of the story!

I love Mudcat!! Thank you so very much!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 07:34 PM

About ten miles south of Gauly Bridge, and extending further south for some distance, is the New River Gorge National River Park stretch where white water rafting has been famous, apparently, since your great graddad's day.

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: NicoleC
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 07:50 PM

heh heh ... it only goes to show they're the pros for a reason!
Lessee -- I got two letters right :)

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: GUEST,Walking Eagle
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 11:35 PM

How about Hawks Nest WVA? There were many skirmishes up and down the New and Kanawha Valleys. Ole Robert E. Lee hisself fit along there.

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 12:01 AM

Walking Eagle, thanks, but the experts took a look and said it is Camp Gauly Mountain, as noted in my earlier posting. I had thought of Hawk's Nest, too, as my gggranddad's second wife was a Miss Mary Westlake of Hawk's Nest. It seems obvious that my ancestor was right around in that area a lot, from the sounds of it.

Thank you all, very much. This has been fun! I have only started so maybe there will be more!Hahaha!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: Banjer
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 09:31 PM

As for this part of it:

The reason I think it is a Union pass is it says, in part, "This pass is given with the understanding that if the party receiving it be found hereafter in arms against the Government of the United States, or aiding or abetting its enemies, the penalty will be death."

It sounds more like a release for a Confederate POW. Often times men were realeased after taking an oath of allegiance to the Union and promising not to take up arms again. Most interesting.....

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 12:02 AM

Kat said it was a pass for her Greatgrandmother. Is her name on it?
I would guess that these passes had multiple uses. May 1862 would be early for a prisoner release, but I am guessing. WV was admitted in June 1863, but I don't know the details of how it was set up or how loyalties were determined or how people entering the new state were checked. The filled-in blanks would probably tell more.

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 12:34 AM

Near as I can tell, this was for my greatx2grandmother, sorry it was my mistake listing her as only greatx1.

Here it is, in its entirety. The italics denote filled in blanks:

No. 83 Head-Quarters, Mountain Department.
Camp Gauley Va May 5th(?) 1862
All guards, lines, posts, stations will pass safely Mrs. Abe Forsythe untill (sic)
further orders
Description.
Complexion - Dark
Hair - Black
Height - Feet- Inches 5 -4
Eyes - Hazel
Age - 36yrs
Whiskers

This pass being given with the understanding that is the party receiving it be found hereafter in arms against the Government of the United States, or aiding or abetting its enemies, the penalty will be death.
???M. Taylor, Adjt.
By order of L.S. Elliott, Lt. Col Commanding Post

Thanks, ya'll...

katontheprowlforancestors

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: Janie
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 09:35 PM

Kat,

The Falls of the Kanawha are just a short distance downstream from where the Gauly and New rivers merge and become the Kanawha River. (In the "for what it's worth department", the Kanawha River should actually be considered the lower part of the New River.) Gauly Bridge (the town at the confluence of the Gauly and the New rivers) is more or less on the border between the mountains and the Appalachian Plateau. The New River Gorge ends there. There are a number of historically interesting sites in that area, and it is rich in Civil War history and lore.

Good luck with your continued research on your family.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: WVA-Civil War history buffs - help!:-)
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 09:44 PM

Thank you, Janie, that is most interesting!

I scored big time in the wee hours of the morning, today. In the past few months when I didn't have access to ancestry.com someone what looks like the complete family tree for this Forsythe branch of my family which will go a long way in sorting out my THREE Abrahams!:-)

Thanks to all of you for indulging me. It's been fun to share and I hope to get back there to WVa, someday, to see some of these places.

kat