BS: Shania Twain

Subject: BS: Shania Twain
From: 53
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 08:16 AM

Shania Twain on the CMA Awards show what did you think?

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: ballpienhammer
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 08:17 AM

YUK!

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: Oaklet
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 08:48 AM

Don't impress me much.

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 09:05 AM

Her music videos are about as non-sequitur and clueless in relation to her song material as one can get. Her latest Sci-fi production is a joke when you leave the sound "on".

She's been going through the same phase of gross over-production as Mariah Carey did before the stupidity of it all collapsed and what Christina Aguillera is going through now.
Look at the new Britney Spears"Pop-slut" image Leanne Rhimes has chosen for herself.
Shania can be charitibly considered to be an "overgrown" pop-Diva at this point behaving like a backwoods "hick'" with all this money. Being Canadian sure hasn't made any difference.

In this phase the core music "always" suffers.

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: 53
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 09:20 AM

I don't know what to think.

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: Mooh
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 09:40 AM

Well...she still looks okay with the sound off. But as they say about that other Canadian shame Celine Dion, "How can we miss her when she won't go away?".

Pop marketing is the anti-folk.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 10:45 AM

I'd rather listen to MARK Twain.

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: irishajo
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 11:18 AM

I did not watch the CMA awards, so I did not see her performance. What was it like?

I think some of her songs are catchy, but I don't like to watch her due to feelings of jealousy.

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: Willie-O
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 11:32 AM

I agree with Taliesn except I haven't noticed the stupidity-driven collapse phenomenon. Stupid over-the-top-of-the-top production seems to be just building on itself.

The gal from Timmins has gone a long way. Won't be back, I'm sure.
Stashes herself and her money in Switzerland.

I too am curious--did she do something to outdo her usual "highest-paid lapdancer in Nashville" (Steve Earle's comment) schtick?

W-O

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 11:34 AM

Shania is pretty well known in Ontario, Canada, since she hails from a small north Ontario town, and I know at least one person who came out of the same school she did, and has met her on numerous occasions at school reunions and such. What all these people agree on (those who've actually met her, I mean...and grown up in the same town) is that Shania is a very nice, unpretentious person, very likeable. She is extremely popular in the town where she grew up...in fact she's the local hero.

Now, I agree entirely with the criticisms expressed above as to how the industry has marketed her! Entirely. The pop music industry is crap, and they misuse and abuse everything they touch. They are constantly on the lookout for beautiful young women whom they can market like soft-porn stars to an obliging public who will go out and buy CD's full of essentially meaningless, overproduced love songs.

None of this is Shania's fault. In fact, you could say that she has become the victim of it. She could do the Sinead O'Connor thing, be a total rebel, and defy them by not playing the game the way they want...OR....she could just walk away from it all and abandon her career. What would you do in her position? I don't get the impression she is a rebellious person by nature.

Once you're on that roller coaster, folks, it is not so easy to get off. Fame imprisons people, while offering them substantial inducements to remain imprisoned.

Consider the case of Winona Ryder, who has just gone through far more hassle over a shoplifting charge than the average shoplifter ever would...and who is clearly no threat to society, but probably was suffering from a severe depression at the time and not thinking rationally (she has a history of depression).

I consider the kind of music Shania does as catchy...but vapid. I consider Shania herself to be a very nice, harmless person in an unusual situation.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: C-flat
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 12:10 PM

Well said Little Hawk,
I expect that is true of many "popular" performers today. I'm as guilty as the next person for critising the music business but, given the breaks, how many of us would have jumped at the chance to get that much exposure, even if it meant dancing to the record companys' tune.

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: Mooh
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 12:46 PM

Mr. Little Hawk sir, those were alot more words than I would have ever contributed to the subject, and I could never have done so with your wisdom. Thanks for putting it all in perspective!

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: YOR
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 01:09 PM

Nope, I missed that performance. Did she show her belly button?

That Mutt's a lucky dog!

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 01:23 PM

(quote)
"I agree with Taliesn except I haven't noticed the stupidity-driven collapse phenomenon."

Willie-O

The exact point was " ..gross over-production as Mariah Carey did before the stupidity of it all collapsed ."

I was referring to Mariah Carey's self-puffery to the point of producing the gawd-awful movie "Sparkle" which crached & burned at the box office and she's been ,since ,licking her over-marketed wounds while trying to lose excess poundage.

Maria Carey stiill has a fantastic gift of a voice ,but her material and then its over-indulgent production got out ahead of her.
Would love to hear her drop the Pop-crap and pretend to grow up ( she's in her 30's now ) and do some Jazz . Diane Krall has proven that classy performances of classy material has a very enthusiastic audience qand Carey's voice is definitely there.

So , too ,with Shania whom hasn't done a movie yet , but if her over-produced videos are any indication then you've seen the pattern.
That's what I meant.

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 05:20 PM

Don't Twain and Carey think of themselves as songwriters and write much of the junk they perform. I've often wondered what Carey would sound like if she sang a real song. Neither is that bad to look at and I too prefer their on-screen performnaces without the sound.

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 05:34 PM

(quote)
"Neither is that bad to look at and I too prefer their on-screen performnaces without the sound. "

To finish the thought might i suggest that the true test of a song's appeal from either Pop-diva is how much the song works *without* benefit of the accompanying video.

Unfortunately I find too many of Shanaia's material totally dependent upon what new outlandish Playboy-suited outfit
she can wriggle in while in a scenario ever-further disconnected from what the song is supposed to be about.
I guess call it the Micheal/ Janet Jackson Syndrome of showing off how much of a superstar you are by flaunting evermore expensive videos.
Shania's already gone way past good taste. That forgetable song with her wearing that ridiculous leopard outfit was the point of no return. Just another Pop-tart now ; Britany with a genuinely talented voice. Not much more.

Let 'em perform "unplugged" as that's the only time any real talent shows through.

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 02 - 07:34 PM

I entirely share your low estimation of the way that girl is marketed. The music industry stinks.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 02:54 AM

All you critics should find a little time to both read some of this lady's lyrics and also learn a little of her life story.

She made a huge contirbution to her Family after the loss of her parents at a very young age. She is humble as a person and very very nice to everyone she meets.

Take away the packaging that the "BigBoys" present and you have an incredible person and talent. Do a little investigating folks. Then make an opinion.

I've heard several of her tunes at Folk Festivals of late. Stripped down they show heaps of heart.

Your worse than armchair quarterbacks!

later

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 09:01 AM

Heard her interviewed on UK television a couple of days back. The interviewer asked something on the lines of what her favourite song was. I think it turned out to be a Dolly Parton one. She was then asked if she would sing some of it, and after a moments thought went straight into a verse of the song.
Yes - the videos are overproduced and the Country-Pop thing doesn't suit many of us, but unlike most of the pop world these days, she actally CAN sing live.
Quack!

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: Willie-O
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 10:10 AM

Point is well taken Guest, and LH. Ms Twain is a real person, with a working-class background--anyone who grew up in the tree-planting business in North Ontario knows all about real work--and good family values.   (My own contacts in Timmins say not everyone there loves her, though. Like most ambitious people, she left some of her roots and people who got her started behind). When I first heard her, I was pre-disposed to like her precisely because of what I had heard about her background. And I did enjoy the music, at first.

But I am certain she has been a willing participant in her own marketing. She wouldn't have to do anything as rebellious and controversial as Sinead O'Connor did just to try putting out a lower-key unplugged kind of album that didn't rely on dumb outfits on video, and super-crunchy production. I just don't buy the victim-of-industry picture, any more than I do with Madonna.

And she is a decent, tolerable singer, but NOT a great one. Incidentally there is a Shania tribute act making the country fair and small-town arena circuit in Ontario, called Shania Twin. Unlike Diana Krall, what Shania does is eminently imitatable.   

I find myself feeling apologetic for being critical, but hey, that's the way I see it.
W-O

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: Peter T.
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 11:42 AM

The problem in Canada is that with Canadian content laws (Which I support!!!) we have to listen to at least twice the Shania Twain that the rest of the world listens to (and don't get me started on Celine Dion). This is really depressing, and makes us jaded. yours, Peter T. P.S. Every other song played on Canadian radio these days is "Complicated" by Avril, simply because she had the misfortune to be born in Gananoque.

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: Willie-O
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 11:53 AM

Frankly Peter, I don't think Shania gets much of a Canadian content sticker these days. She lives in Switzerland, has an American husband/producer, and god knows where she records but I doubt its here.

If you listen to "new country" radio, they might be fulfilling the CanCon regulations by the letter, but they do it by playing wannabe Americans so as not to upset their artistic focus.

I'll give Shania Twain credit for this: she has her own style and doesn't sound like she's trying to imitate anyone in particular.

W-O

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 01:01 PM

I heard you on my wireless back in '52
Lying awake intent on tuning in on you
If I was young it didn't stop you coming through

Oh-a-oh

They took the credit for your second symphony
Rewritten by machine on new technology
And now I understand the supernova scene

Oh-a-oh
I met your children
Oh-a-oh
What did you tell them?

Video killed the radio star
Video killed the radio star
In my mind and in my car, we can't rewind we've gone too far
Wow

And now we meet in an abandoned studio
You hear the playback and it seems so long ago
And you remember, the jingles used to go,

Oh-a-oh
You were the first one
Oh-a-oh
You were the last one

Video killed the radio star
Video killed the radio star
Cause in my mind and in my car, we can't rewind we've gone too far
To far!

Alright

Video killed the radio star
Video killed the radio star
Cause in my mind and in my car, we can't rewind we've gone too far
Pictures came and broke your heart
So put all the blame on VCR

You are the radio star
You are the radio star
Video killed the radio star
Video killed the radio star
Video killed the radio star
Video killed the radio star
Video killed the radio star
Video killed the radio star
Video killed the radio star
Video killed that radio star yes it did

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 04:37 PM

Actually her husband Robert John Lange was born in South Africa (or maybe Rhodesia) before becoming famous as a record producer in the late '70s in England, working with the likes of The Boomtown Rats and Graham Parker & The Rumour.
Quack!

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: Willie-O
Date: 08 Nov 02 - 04:58 PM

Well, thanks for the info Geoff. What the hell do I know. He does know how to tweak them knobs, without a doubt.

W-O

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 12:56 AM

(quote)
"All you critics should find a little time to both read some of this lady's lyrics and also learn a little of her life story."

Oh dooo forgive me , but I have more important things to research than some Pop-diva's life story and lyrics.
BTW: MTV ,VH1 and CMTV have all done their one hour packaged documentary w/ interviews on her . I've seen quite enough sitting through just *one* thank you very much.
She's a Pop-diva like Mariah Carey with way too much make-up
and way too slim-pickings in the way of writing.

If I *had* to chose a voice & writing from the Country Music managerie Shania-the product can't touch Martina MacBride or Allison Kraus. Shania makes money and that's what being a Pop-diva is all about. She has about as much depth as Elton John; clear & sober or coked-up and flaming.

They were perfect doing a song of her's together live.
it's all about selling coca-cola and/or Pepsi. She's more musically talented than Britany ,but then that's a pretty *low* bar to surpass.

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 05:17 AM

Whilst agreeing with Little Hawk's assessment of the music industry in general, I suspect Shania has a lot more say in her marketing than the average pop puppet. After all, she's married to her producer and co-writer!

BJ

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 12:58 PM

Shania is probably just a rather conventional girl who thinks that the kind of music she's doing is the real thing... :-) If so, she's just reflecting the mainstream values she grew up with all around her. I call that a kind of innocence.

If you want to listen to an absolutely phenomenal female folk/country singer and songwriter who can write and sing circles around most people and has NOT gone the pop-diva route...put on Mary Chapin-Carpenter.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Shania Twain
From: SlickerBill
Date: 09 Nov 02 - 03:34 PM

Twain is a pop artist and writes pop songs. Pop songs are pop songs,and therefore are usually on the vapid side. So she goes to Nashville, with her voice and her looks to try to make a living in the music industry, she pulls it off, hitching up with Mutt and eventually getting to perform her own tunes. And, yeah, the "industry" does it all up in diva fashion to make money. Well that's what any industry DOES, make money. Hey, listen, I don't see me running out to buy her cd's, but I'll tell ya, there's alot worse out there than some nice looking woman singing some catchy pop love songs. Sure there's tons of folks out there who write better songs than Shania, but the mass market is too stupid and lazy to ever give em that kind of success, with some notable exceptions along the way. I mean alot, if not most cd buyers aren't really looking for thoughtful, witty, etc, when they're looking for music. So she's making a nice living off of it. Who can blame her? sb