Should I put this song on my Xmas CD?

Subject: Should I put this song on my Xmas CD?
From: SharonA
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 04:41 PM

Hi, everyone! To date, I have six Christmas songs that I've written but have never put onto a CD. I also have a co-worker (also a musician, coincidentally) who's been pestering me for years – literally – to record his particular favorite. Today he decided to push me along a bit: he called up a friend of his at a recording studio who said he'd charge $250 to make a six-song demo CD, nicely mixed and all that. I know nothing (zippo, zero, nada) about studio rates, so I don't know if this price is good or bad, but now I think I'd better get the songs recorded there or somewhere before my co-worker resorts to setting up microphones at my office desk!

Most of the songs are pretty conventional stuff – some feel-good fluff, some humor, some typical singer-songwriter angst – but there's one song that has been known to offend a few people, and I'm undecided as to whether to do the "ballsy" thing and include the song on the CD, or to do the polite thing and leave it off.

No, it's not my song about celebrating both Christmas and Hanukah when I had a Jewish boyfriend! I suppose some people might be offended by that song, too, but that one's definitely "in".

No, I'm talking about my song that tells the Christmas story from Joseph's point of view (I didn't think he'd been getting enough press!). It follows the Biblical tale closely, but when I was writing it I tried to imagine the very-human emotions that Joseph might have felt upon hearing the news of Mary's pregnancy, and to convey his anger and bitterness in some pretty strong words... words that some might consider sacrilegious.

Of course, the story turns out all right in the end (after the angel gives Joseph a good talking-to)! Most folks who hear the song understand that I was trying to portray "my" Joseph character as a real person, with shortcomings included, but a few don't like to think of him as being any less holy than the other members of the Holy Family.

Ever since one Catholic friend of mine yelled at me over the song, I've been careful to preface my performances with an explanation of what the audience is about to hear. I would definitely print something to the same effect in the CD liner notes and put some sort of alert on the outer cover, but of course some folks might miss seeing it before listening!

I don't want to print out the lyrics on the thread, but I suppose I could PM them to anyone who's interested in reading them. So what do you think? Should the song go in or stay out? Will reviewers at radio stations, etc., reject my stuff because of one song like this... or will they be positively impressed that I've dared to share it with them? Should I be naughty or nice?!? :^)

Thanks in advance for your input,
Sharon

Subject: RE: Should I put this song on my Xmas CD?
From: MMario
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 04:43 PM

Your decision of course - and YES! I'd like to see the lyrics.

Subject: RE: Should I put this song on my Xmas CD?
From: mg
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 04:53 PM

I would like to see the lyrics. I agree with a warning of some sort. We were not allowed to sing the Cherry Tree Carol because it is not respectful of St. Joseph. I think there should be a song from his perspective. mg

Subject: RE: Should I put this song on my Xmas CD?
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 05:16 PM

One of the hymnals used by the UCC church has a song from Joseph's point of view, more or less along the same vein. There are certainly denominations that might take issue with the possible human failings of the major characters in this story, but I for one think it's refreshing and lovely! I'd love to see your lyrics, Sharon!

Subject: RE: Should I put this song on my Xmas CD?
From: Amos
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 05:16 PM

Aw, Jeeze, the freedom of expression is a little more important in my book than that!! If these sainted entities are all that blessed and powerful, they aren't fragile enough to be offended by a little real-human poetry. If they are that fragile that mere mortals have to run around defending their delicate names from embarassment by humans -- really! -- maybe they should be replaced with more robust icons.

It is of course entirely up to you whether you want to constrain your voice by such considerations, but my impulse is, as you can plainly see, publish and be damned. I think you'll survive just fine!


A

Subject: RE: Should I put this song on my Xmas CD?
From: Mudlark
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 06:03 PM

I side with Amos and freedom of expression. I always liked best the verse in the Cherry Tree Carol where Joe says in a huff...Let the father of the baby pick your cherries! It has always "made" the song for me, that human touch.

To address your worry that liner notes might not be read, you might think about recording a very short intro, over soft instrument background, explaining the song's approach, as you might do in a concert setting (haha, esp. if singing in a church). But if your intent in this song is to sympathise with Joseph's plight, I think he could use the press too...go for it w/or w/o intro.

Subject: RE: Should I put this song on my Xmas CD?
From: michaelr
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 08:35 PM

Yes, definitely put it in.

And I would encourage you to post it here, as well.

We're all big boys and girls here. (Well, mostly)

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Should I put this song on my Xmas CD?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 10:01 PM

As has been said already, this is a theme with strong traditional echoes. Here is a link to a site with the words of The Cherry Tree Carol, which has been mentioned already.

I imagine the words are already in the DT , but the search engine isn't working for me tonight, so I asked Google instead.

Interestingly enough the site where it found the words turns out to be a discussion forum where someone had posted it worried in case it might offend some religious people - in this case Catholics. I'd think anyone who was offended by it wouldn't be too likely to feel much at home in the Catholic Church.

I hope you feel like posting it here. Or a sound file maybe - you could let us hear what it sounds like.

Subject: RE: Should I put this song on my Xmas CD?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Nov 02 - 10:14 PM

And here's another one that might offend some people, especially these days - The Bitter Withy, and this time its both Jesus and Mary who are behaving in a very human way. (Which would get them in serious trouble today.)

(And I know this is in the DT, but I couldn't open it tonight, so it's Maddie Prior's version - and her father is a vicar.)

Subject: RE: Should I put this song on my Xmas CD?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 12:30 AM

Well, I like the Cherry Tree Carol just fine, and I've sung it in Catholic churches many times - always with favorable comments.
I can't stomach the Bitter Withy, though. In that song, Jesus is too nasty to be believable.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Should I put this song on my Xmas CD?
From: michaelr
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 12:34 AM

I don't know, Joe --

reading Bitter Withy, I picture Jesus as an 8-year old boy, acting impulsively but without malice.

Surely he wasn't enlightened til later?

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Should I put this song on my Xmas CD?
From: Haruo
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 12:47 AM

The Jesus of the Bitter Withy is right in line with the Jesus of some of the apocryphal Infancy Gospels; indeed, in the Bitter Withy it looks to me like he had more just cause than in some of those gospels for the damage he inflicted.

Sharon, I'm looking forward hopefully to your decision to post the lyrics here so we can decide if we want to buy your CD! (Kidding; but a preview would be welcome.)

Haruo

Subject: RE: Should I put this song on my Xmas CD?
From: MMario
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 08:28 AM

Okay - I remember the story in Bitter Withy being taught at a sunday school session - we were told that it showed that human fate was a result of choice. The children CHOSE not to play with Jesus - but when he then did something fun - they drowned due to their CHOICE to attempt what he had (even though they had said they didn't want to play with him) - yet Jesus took punishment for it - though it was not his fault or decision.

Subject: RE: Should I put this song on my Xmas CD?
From: Genie
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 08:37 AM

Sharon, I'd love to see/hear your song. I'm inclined to say "go ahead and include it" even if it may offend some folks, but it's not unheard of to include a spoken introduction to a song on a CD, just as you might give in a performance.

And if I knew someone who would do a good quality six-song demo CD for $250, I'd probably jump at it. (If the going rate is less than that, fantastic!)

Genie

Subject: RE: Should I put this song on my Xmas CD?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 11:02 PM

Don't put in on the CD....my group's mantra is..."If in doubt...leave it out."

Subject: RE: Should I put this song on my Xmas CD?
From: Bert
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 01:35 AM

Bad advice from guest there Sharon, At all times, if in doubt SING!!!

Subject: RE: Should I put this song on my Xmas CD?
From: alanabit
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 03:11 AM

The only way I know of to avoid offending people is by never saying anything. That's not really the idea of being either a singer or a writer. When you perform it live, it makes sense to give the song some context. You have already explained that you do this. Other people may think or feel differently but it gives nobody the right to decide what you express. Above all, you should choose your own material - that is what makes you interesting. Good luck with it.

Subject: RE: Should I put this song on my Xmas CD?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 03:14 AM

If in danger or in DOUBT, run in circles, scream and shout ... or sing.
Now, it is difficult to give any advice not knowing the text; so in general resuming the experiences of nearly sixty years: Whatever you do, some people will always be offended. Who cares? Freedom of speech, or song, must prevail. If you consider your song good - and your friend does so, too - sing it.

Some remarks to other posts:
The Cherry Tree Carol fits into the Gospels about the story when Joseph wanted to leave Mary but was hold back by an angel.
The Bitter Withy shows little Jesus as what he once was: a child, and a human being. The reaction of the harangued child is naturally and well seen by the folks singing this song; the insight of the people into the nature of man is better than that of the church officials. It is not the place to discuss the theological problem of the Two Natures of God; average belief is: True Man and True God, both natures in one. Here we have a fine example of his human nature.

Wilfried

Subject: RE: Should I put this song on my Xmas CD?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 03:35 AM

!........so it's Maddie Prior's version - and her father is a vicar."

Kevin, shome mishtake shurely? (Unless of course you were intending some obscure pun on the name "Prior")

Maddie is the daughter of Allan Prior, an award-winning scripwriter responsible for many successful TV and radio series. If he has ever   taken holy orders at any time it's news to me.

There is of course another Allan Prior (no relation), Scottish folksinger well known on the South of England Folk scene.

Usual apologies for thread drift ....

Murray

Subject: RE: Should I put this song on my Xmas CD?
From: Snuffy
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 08:50 AM

And I always thought she was the daughter of Jim Prior, Tory cabinet minister under Thatcher!

Subject: RE: Should I put this song on my Xmas CD?
From: Kim C
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 12:16 PM

Oh, Sharon, put it in there. There is plenty of Biblical documentation that Joseph was definitely a human being! He had a lot of doubt and misgivings about this mysterious baby, and especially about Mary's pregnancy. He was downright embarrassed by it, and wanted to "put her away."

Imagination is a gift from God. Don't hide the candle under a bushel. :-)

Subject: RE: Should I put this song on my Xmas CD?
From: GUEST,Claire
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 03:04 PM

Hi Sharon,

I would be skeptical of the price quoted for your recording. In my experience, studio time costs between $50 and $75/hour, and that is in Tucson, which probably has lower rates than other areas. Then there is mixing time and the cost of pressing the cd and the cost of getting your liner notes written and formatted, if you don't do it yourself.

If you only want a recording of your music for fun, $500-$1000 might be more reasonable. My band did a demo, which had about 6 cuts, cost $500, plus $8 per cd (purchased separately). Although it was a great start for our band: we learned about recording, and did some early promotions, we chose to upgrade significantly when we recorded our "real" cd. We pressed 1000 and the total costs for recording, mixing and pressing was $7000. Professional recording people have since commented on how good the sound quality is.   I also have a friend with a band that recorded a cd of old time tunes for $1000. They all gathered round a couple microphone and got a nice authentic sound. This is not possible for all types of music.

So, you need to think about what type of sound quality you want, whether your instrumentation will be recorded on separate tracks from your vocals and the purpose of the cd (how professional you want it to appear).

Good luck, Recording is a constant learning curve, but fun.

Claire

Subject: RE: Should I put this song on my Xmas CD?
From: greg stephens
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 03:25 PM

SharonA
Put it on the CD for sure. Controversy never harmed a record. And do share the lyrics here: and if not I'd love to see them in a PM.