BS: More Lib-twittery

Subject: BS: More Lib-twittery
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 06:51 AM

Happening upon our own self-described Godless-libertarian's post I just felt that his inextricbly alloyed wing of "libertarian/ athesit" reasoning required some commnetary all its own .

(quote)
" Thomas Paine was a well known Atheist who was one of the founding fathers, and most of the others were diests."

It is understood that the "founding fathers" did arise in what is classified as the "Age of Enlightenment" which spawned the so-called "philosophe's" which advocated the supremacy of Science ( such as it was at the time ) and "scientific reasoning"
as the replacement for religious beliefs.
The "dieist" wing , though removing themselves from any "formal" religions , still operated from the axiom that there was a higher power & "intelligence" that set Naturtal Law into motion and that it was man's duty to discover , through scientific reasoning , those laws in order to put them to work for the betterment of mankind.
Thus a diest is still anathema to an aetheist and it is just one part of this class of "twittery" to try and promote the supposition that only "true" libertarian is an aetheist-lib. This kind of "fanatacism" is what strikes one as the pure expression of "twittery".
I've also checked out the web links provided by our own little Libby and found the list of donating support groups and , among the named groups, found such *amusing* groups as the Satanists ( the group begun in California _where else?;-)_ around the "ego" of the finally departed Anton LeVey ).
I guess the branch og Libertarians that also require
aetheism to feel ideologically "complete" , or dare I say "wholistic" are not above taking donations from whatever source they can get so long as that source is atleast "anti-God";
an expression of the old realpolitique dictum of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." perhaps. I mean forget the contradiction that Satanist worship Satan as their "supreme being" ( of which ,according to the devout lib-aetheists there "is" no such thing and is an encumbrane ) so I guess intelligent folks would realize that you can't be a good libertarian and a devout Satanist in the same time/space dimensia.
I doesn't stop there. Then , to my gales of LOL laughter I actually found that there is in fact a Society of Saganists ( as in Carl Sagan ) I've often satirized the founder of Scientology ,L.Ron Hubbard , with the playful fiction that there would arise a rivalry between other religions begun around other more famous Sci-fi writers like the Carl Saganists , the Frank Herbertologists., and the Heilienites.
Well, yes,Virginia, there is such a thing as a Carl Saganist now.
How very pop-culturist .L.Ron Hubbard must be spinning in his time capsule.;-)
Finally I find the Raelians listed as conributors to this self-avowed aetheist wing of the libertarian party. If you really wonder why the "X Files" became so cult-popularist you simply must do a websearch of these "supreme race of beings servants". Their core "belief" lies in that they are under the instructiuons of a higher race of supreme aliens to advance the science of human cloning in order to perfect a hybrid human "worthy" or atleast capable of hosting these supreme beings the better to walk among us . Oh yeah, and with the side agenda of cloning yourself so one can become "immortal" by way of multiple clones. Guess whom would profit rom the commerical applications of this Sci-fi snake oil.
Oh, the best part is the entral cult leader from whom the name Raelians comes from. A former French journalist/race car driver
who changed his name to Rael and dresses like he right out of central castiing from "Star Trek_the Next Generation". I know this for a fact because this fruit-o-the-loom appeared in person for a Congressional hearing on the Ethics of Genetic Engineering and he was dressing in layers of finely creased white robes reading from a prepared "in English" speech in a very appropriate thick french-accent to complete the Jules Verne-ness of the moment. A far more articulate French-origin woman scientist accompanied him on the panel , ofcourse , to *promote* the advancment of human cloning under the protection of the Constitutional "Freedom of Religion".
Now considering that the whole point of this new , some would say "fanatic", aetheist-wing of the libertarian political party ( not quite a "cult",,,,yet ;-) was to be totally free from all intrusion of any religious order this list of donors seems to suggest how desperate they are , and are more than willing to make with strange-bedfellows , in order to advance their politicla agenda.
But, hey, that just makes them just as corruptable as any political party. Business as usual I s'pose.

Oh, one last tidbit of twittery must be offered by the author_libertarian:
(quote)
"....You see, in popular music, U2, Petra, Jars of Clay, and especially Creed are popular Rock bands, but those of us in the know don't have to listen to them, and most of us don't due to our non-belief. "

Ahhh, the full flower of youthful naivete is practiclly "quaint",
but twittery nonetheless. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: More Lib-twittery
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 09:00 AM

Just so.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: More Lib-twittery
From: Hollowfox
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 09:36 AM

Darn, I thought it was going to be a thread about librarians getting all twittery. Mary, who only had to survive Existentialists and Jesus Freaks in college

Subject: RE: BS: More Lib-twittery
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 09:46 AM

Well I thought the title "More Aethist-Libertarian Twittery" would exhaust the amount of allowable letters in the type-box so I shortened up a tad.
I thought of "Aethesit-Lib twittery" and passed, but upon 2nd thought "Aetheist/Liberation" is what this spin-off
splinter group really appears to be *all* about .
The actual Libertarian political party just offers an already established , and wider , medium for them to sponge off of until they can goose-up their numbers to some imagined critical mass.
It's always amusing how fanatical splinter groups always fob off on more established political parties while pretending they are *above* the same corrupting influences of "political partism" ;-)

Ahhh, welcome to the 21st century evreryone.

Subject: RE: BS: More Lib-twittery
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 10:23 AM

My my, taliesen, you're really upset, why?

Subject: RE: BS: More Lib-twittery
From: Mudlark
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 11:50 AM

"...found such *amusing* groups as the Satanists ( the group begun in
California _where else?;-)..."

Hey, I resemble that remark. No witches were burned in the Golden State!

I don't know much about the Libertarian Party...when not trying to keep out the worst of the candidates from the two major parties, I vote Green. But I've yet to hear of a politcal party that turned down campaign funds. Surely Satanists can't be any more destructive than the pharmaceutical/chemical/etc. factions that flood money into the government to protect their wasteful, damaging effects. I'll take kooky groups over major corporations any day...if I'm going to deal with evil, I'd rather see it so named and right out in the open.

Subject: RE: BS: More Lib-twittery
From: Peter T.
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 12:40 PM

Is a diest someone who is in favour of dying? (lie down, all those in favour of dying!)

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: More Lib-twittery
From: Mudlark
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 03:30 PM

LOL, Peter...

Subject: RE: BS: More Lib-twittery
From: Amos
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 03:35 PM

P'raps it is someone who lives for today only? Carpe, carpe, carpe!! Can't you do anything but carpe?

A

Subject: RE: BS: More Lib-twittery
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 05:21 PM

(quote)
"Is a diest someone who is in favour of dying?"

Ahhh, the winding roads taken from as a result of a misplaced
"i" starting with libby's "diest" and continuing with my one "i" too many in "dieist".
The proper derivation ,which an aetheist-libber may be forgiven for not knowing ( a "Know nothing " party affiliation , p'raps ;-) yet should then refrain from attempts at scholastic pretensions , is the clasical word "deity" from the latin "Deus" chosen to mean God when used in this reference. Latin being the chosen language of learning in post-Roman Empire collasped Europe
survived as the chosen language of the humanities and then science in no small part thanks to those Irish monks that preserved the manuscripts of antiquity while the rest of Europe was slaughtering each other in the vain dream of one warlord unifying a 2nd pan-European empire under one regime again.
Scientific inquiry into the behavioral laws of Nature merged with the mathematics of serfaring navigation and "predictive" engineering principles.
The Renaissance became the open door to the race for the global corporation ( the Dutch East Indian Company won ) and, thus ,the race for arms to protect harvested wealth and then the better to wrest wealth from others. Throw in the Reformation and it wasn't long before the arrogance of revolutionary Science gave rise to this intellectual cult of power to rule without answering to God which then bred the fashion of science not needing any knowledge of a god to there being no god at all but "science".

Without the source for a moral compass , the quaint 'ethic" of live and let live proved it could not stand against the "survival of the fittest" justification for the "will to power". Without the acknowledgement of a higher power then the "will to power" becomes the free-for-all " win ay any cost maelstrom that the shameful 20th century worold wars and the rise of godless cults of Neopolianism, Fascism,Stalinism ,& Maoism that swept away 10's of millions of lives each by their own fiat.

So ,yes ,the "Age of Enlightenment" context of the term "deist"
doth resonnate still as we enter a new century where wingnuttery like a cult of Raelians demanding that it is their religious right to follow their "higher alien's'" mandate to speed up the advance human cloning without ny restraints of others' ethics save their own as directed by Rael , whom is the self-embued messenger of his "aliens" , and his folllowers.

Beam me up .Scotty ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: More Lib-twittery
From: libertarian
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 05:26 PM

Taeleisn you need to get anti-anger management as there are people who have differing opinions than yourself, and I do wish you would learn how to spell. You have so many mispellings in your post it is pathetic. You must have come through our government indoctrination centers when they no longer put emphasis on correct spelling. Just look at how you spell Atheist!!!! From here on in, you have to look at the person, because I am not promoting Satanism over Atheism, and you are under the false assumption that Satanists worship Satan. You see the only reason Satanists have adopted that moniker is to piss off christians better knows to us Atheists as xians. From this point on that is how I will spell that word. Letting you know ahead of time that since we don't believe in a superior being, or should I say since we know there is no superior being, we do not have to refer to a mythological creature by that name.

I am going to have to re-read Taeliesn's post to respond further, but obviously he doesn't want to actively participate in this forum because he is not registered and doesn't care if people can send him private messages. Since he rambles like he does in the first post without proper research, we might want to ignore him, or at the very least not respond. However if he wants a good debate, come over to Yahoo chat, I am rev_libertarian, and I will be glad to debate you in the Let's Nail Jesus Up Again room as that is usually where I hang out.

Subject: RE: BS: More Lib-twittery
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 05:54 PM

Am I the only person on this forum with the insight to realize that English is not Taliesn's first language?

Let us be charitable with regard to matters of spelling and syntax ....

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: More Lib-twittery
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 06:13 PM

(quote)
"and I do wish you would learn how to spell. "

followed oh so aptly by:
(quote)

" better _knows_to us Atheists as xians"

Oh my word, nice spelling there chief ;-)
Or was it merely a type-o .Funny how those things get even the best of us, ay? ;-)

(quote)
"Taeleisn you need to get anti-anger management as there are people who have differing opinions than yourself".
I'm not angry . In fact I'm having a ball ;-@
One can have all of the differing opinions they want to dish out. "You" seem to be of the opinion that opinions that challenge yours are inappropriate . I challenge that as well.
As far as my deliberate spelling of Aetheist is an inside joke i've developed with others. You seem quite content to forgive your own type-os. Too bad your forgiveness is less than eccumenical.
Hah! ;-@

(quote)
"and you are under the false assumption that Satanists worship Satan."

No I'm not because I've known some personally. I went along with these people just to hear them out becuase it was getting interesting. Supposed devote followers of Allistar Crowley
, like one world renowned Swiss artist H.R.Giger can be quite freakish to deal wqith, but the Satanists I was introduced to were quite smooth and urban. Anyway, they do practice rituals of worship for whatever reasons and make a point of it of making a point of it in front of those whom they've been told ae more 'open minded" which i must have been judged to be our I wouldn't have been allowed the rare priviledge or so I'm told.
Haven't had the desire to sacrifice a virgin to the goat-headed Baphamet yet.
Over the years I've been approached by many cults including Scientologists last time. I still keep all of the introductory literature ( LeVay's Satanists included ).
Sorry if you can't own up to ,or are genuinely "ignorant" of , whom that the Aetheist-libbers gladly take donations from and proudly list as their supporters, but there it is on the web for all to read.

(quote)
"You see the only reason Satanists have adopted that moniker is to piss off christians better knows to us Atheists as xians. From this point on that is how I will spell that word."

hey,whatevr floats your boat, there, Sparky. I could care less.
Aetheists be what aetheists do.

(quote)
"... since we don't believe in a superior being, or should I say since we know there is no superior being, we do not have to refer to a mythological creature by that name."

Well that is why you may have a problem with the
Satanists and pissing off their Baphamet. Their mony's good enough though. Aww,but political parties all piss in the same pot, don't they .
Hah!;-@

(quote)
"However if he wants a good debate, come over to Yahoo chat, I am rev_libertarian,...yada,yada,yada...."

Who the hell cares about Yahoo chat as a forum for anything but
college students ,in-between online porn cirlce-jerk parties , discussing who's schtumping Britney and the , oh Yeah , importance of Aetheism .
Hah! ;-@

Besides ,any forum with the low-life sensibility to take the name of " Let's Nail Jesus Up Again" strikes me as more of a moshpit of opinion amid beer-hall yawps of so much mongrelized ideologicial woof-woofing at the moon.
Oh this is just too much fun ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: More Lib-twittery
From: michaelr
Date: 21 Nov 02 - 07:50 PM

Murray, I think you're wrong...

No one who wasn't raised American would say thing like "whatever floats your boat there, Sparky"!

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: More Lib-twittery
From: libertarian
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 12:26 PM

Let's face it, Taeleisn isn't the brightest bulb on the xmas tree, or for those of us in the know the Solstice tree.

Taeleisn is just looking for someone to pick on who isn't in the majority since he obviously thinks he is, but also he is showing that he is unwilling to investigate facts and trueisms before opening his typewriter, and also since he is unwilling to come over to where we could debate in real time, it also shows his weakness.

To all who read this, please read the former post by me and let's all meet in a room that has intelligence instead of pushing myths that don't exhist.

Subject: RE: BS: More Lib-twittery
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 01:30 PM

Libertarian, careful! Your rhetoric strikes me a great deal the same as Taliesn's, just a different brand. Far from being opposites, the two of you seem to be on the same ring perilously close to each other.

I agree with your mindset but I'm probably not the only person around who is put off by the arrogance of those who claim to be 'in the know'.

Subject: RE: BS: More Lib-twittery
From: greg stephens
Date: 22 Nov 02 - 01:37 PM

I ust say that I have met Taliesn in the flesh and he spoke in comprehensible English. Possibly he has been taken over by aliens since then.