Subject: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: Rick Fielding Date: 28 Nov 02 - 12:25 AM I decided against using one of my "pun" titles here, because someone said that a number of old music tech threads were impossible to find because of them. All that she found were some of the very simplistic ones. Sorry about that....I simply never thought about it, while always trying to get a joke or two in. Won't do it anymore. OK, this is getting silly. I spoke to someone else who teaches banjo tonight and they asked whether I teach music theory when someone is learning that instrument. My reply would be pretty consistent with what I've written on Mudcat over the years. I really emphasize "Ear" training, but I think it's absolutely crucial that a person understand a basic scale, how a major and minor chord is formed and the equivalent NUMBERS. (often called the Nashville number system) I don't teach tablature (beyond how to go about reading it) 'cause a person doesn't need to pay someone a lot of money just to read tab together. I put as much info as possible down on tape, and occasionally use tab for something that may be really hard to pick up by ear. The silly part is that my friend still maintains that "reading music will destroy your creativity, and lessen your ability to improvise". I've been hearing this for years.....sayings like "There ain't no notes on a banjer ya just play it", and "I don't read enough to hurt my playing" etc. I simply can't see how a BASIC knowledge of theory can HURT someone's ability to "make it up". I'm a lousy sightreader, but playing is so much more fun, when you have the vocabulary at least. Well that's my theory anyway. Any thoughts? Cheers Rick |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: khandu Date: 28 Nov 02 - 12:43 AM I have not learned to read music. I really have no desire to do so. However, my "theory" contradicts what I just said. I do not believe that knowledge can be a detriment to creativity. In fact, knowledge can enhance creativity, by giving more tools with which to employ the creativity. To those who would argue that it does inhibit creativity by teaching the player to play within the "box", I would suggest that the innate nature of creativity is to use the box and everything outside the box! Be it banjo, kazoo, or any other instrument, I fail to see how knowing theory would inhibit the musician. Anyway, that's my theory and I'm sticking to it! khandu |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: Steve Latimer Date: 28 Nov 02 - 01:22 AM I guess I have a lot to ay about this. My first musical learning experiences were on the banjo using The Murphy Method as taught by Murphy Henry. Her whole premise is that you can learn entirely by ear. Well, I found that I learned a lot of her stuff note for note, but I had no idea how to improvise or jam. I then took some lessons where I learned to read tab and got some basic theory. I have stopped taking lessons because it was too technical. I think that a banjo is very much a "feel" instrument and that although a bit of theory can be helpful (e.g. transposing) it is over-rated when it comes to banjo playing. Besides, I have a top notch banjo player who is willing to help me if I can just make it in to Toronto on his schedule. |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: Richie Date: 28 Nov 02 - 01:33 AM Rick- I teach Scruggs style banjo, I have four or five good students that play at a high level. I recommend reading TAB first as well as taping the lessons on a cassette tape. Reading TAB is easy and...anyone can do it in a very short time. I don't emphasize theory unless some needs it or asks for it. You don't really need to know scales as much as you need to know rolls. My beginning students have to learn all the basic rolls and play them over and over for the first month. I usually teach right hand technique first. I studied classical guitar with Aaron Shearer and have developed a system for teaching fingerpicking and playing banjo rolls. I have a new book coming out with MEL BAY next year called "Right Hand Arpeggios for Acoustic Guitar." The main thing is to explain about resting the two small right hand fingers on the drum head by the bridge. I don't recommend that but I explain the advantages and disadvantages. Holding the banjo and right hand technique (putting on the picks correctly positioning the right hand etc.) are important. Knowing what notes are in a chord or even the names of the strings doesn't mean diddly. I don't do chords right away but usually do the open G, C, and D7 soon after starting. The main thing is getting the right hand going and explaining how the fingers move (sympathetic movement or opposed movement) if necessary. Also getting the thumb to move right is very important. Ear training is important but it is also difficult for a beginner. I don't work on that much at the start. I also try to get students understanding rhythm or at least tapping their foot on the beat. Knowledge is good, too much info is bad. -Richie |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: Coyote Breath Date: 28 Nov 02 - 01:40 AM Hmmm. I can't read music and regret that. I learned everything I know musically by "ear". I always felt that it was OK to do so since what I am interested in comes from an "oral" tradition. I learned to improvise both by having listened "real good" to what I was playing, having a semi-jazz background and just listening to an incredible amount and variety of music. So I play Norwegian Wood, Hava Nagila, Meadowlands, Ode to joy and the like on the banjo. I play with a dozen or so tunings and I constantly experiment with the banjo by altering the instrument's tonality, it's structure, the kind of strings, the tension of the head, muting, "socking" and all sorts of stuff. Sometimes these experiments fall flat sometimes they are brilliant (well, at least great fun). But back in my mind is the thought that I am limited because I can't read music! And I believe this is true. Especially when I buy an old hymnal or a book of ballads from some exotic place and I can't read the music! But music theory, apart from reading music, knowing why a particular combination of note works and another doesn't is important. Knowing how to dramatize a phrase, how to introduce an almost subliminal emotion by using just the right combination of notes, pauses, etc. THAT is beyond reading alone and oddly enough, even though I can't read music I do seem to know the other aspect of learning music. But I have been playing and singing almost all of my 64 years and lived in a family where music was very important and it's playing was almost constant. CB |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: DonMeixner Date: 28 Nov 02 - 01:56 AM I can't read a note of staff paper. And I find that tab to be problematic as well. If I could decipher guitar or banjo TAB then I could do so with standard notation. It is a visual processing thing for me. And any way, I'm not much of a hand at either instrument for several reasons. BUT I know a fair amount of theory for one so musically impaired. I know the scales. slowly. I can create chord structures in the major anf minor and 7ths. And I find this all to be veryt valuable. I would go so far as to say a musician must know at least the limited theory I know if they play guitar and banjo and shift between the two regularly. Don |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: Dave Bryant Date: 28 Nov 02 - 08:02 AM Banjo Players should definitely study theory - the theory of ballistics. That way they can become quite adept at ducking missiles and getting out of the path of oncoming vehicles ! |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: Peter T. Date: 28 Nov 02 - 09:07 AM I never learned theory until I started playing with Rick a couple of years ago, and kick myself for having waited for so long. It is immensely helpful, and handled properly, helps to get the structure of songs, scales, and so on, into one's head. The tough part is finding a decent book (Edy's Music Theory is pretty good, but even so). For example, I recently figured out what the V7 of V, and the II and VI of V were, and lo and behold they showed up in practically every song I have been working on. It is very clarifying. It also is very helpful in helping you remember the chords of songs, because you can anticipate where things are going to go, substitutions, etc. yours, Peter T. |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: Mooh Date: 28 Nov 02 - 09:09 AM A quick look through my records finds that I've only taught two 5 string players and one four string player in the last 4 years, among the scores of guitarists, many bass players and a few mandolinists. Nonetheless, my approach has been the same for every instrument. I fail to understand why banjo should be taught differently than any other instrument. (Btw, I've heard this about bass too, but I currently have two bassists learning to read after discovering their abilities were arrested by their inability.) Based on what? Repertoire? Technique? Style? Feel? Heritage? As far as I can see/hear/imagine there isn't a single good reason not to learn as much about creating music as possible, and the quickest, most thorough way is to learn to read. At the very least the most common roadsigns of music need to be understood, eg how to determine key and where to find the scale patterns for that key, rests, time signatures, chord construction, and whatever tools are needed for "your" music. Fluent ability to sight read isn't necessary, though it's an advantage, but knowing the language allows you to communicate your ideas effectively. So why be deliberately illiterate? Knowing where to put your fingers in a particular key, and where not to put your fingers; recognizing (by name) groups of chords which work well together and being able to find them; understanding intervals; how can this stuff not be useful? Knowing it doesn't stifle but enhances other approaches to music. It should go hand in hand with ear training. Many players discover all this stuff on their own, intuitively and by ear, but it has to be faster to book learn it. Besides, it's easier to communicate musical ideas when we're working with a common language. Anyway, do drummers need to read music? It would help! My 2 cents Cdn (not adjusted to inflation), Mooh. |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: Jeri Date: 28 Nov 02 - 09:29 AM I once took piano lessons, but had forgotten everything except some very basic things - where C was, what a C chord looked like on sheet music, and duration of notes. Years later (oh alright - I think I was 18), I bought a banjo. I took a class and the teacher insisted on teaching us a bit of basic theory. I have to say when I decided to play fiddle a short time later, I would have had a difficult if not impossible time teaching myself if I didn't know any theory. I had to learn tunes before I could play with people and the tunes on records just went too fast. I wasn't about to sit around practicing scales before I tried tunes when I could learn the scales and tunes at the same time. I bought a copy of O'Neill's and set about laboriously figuring out "So if middle C is there, that note it starts on is a D. It's got two sharps in it, so these are the notes I play...By Jinkies - that's a D scale!!!" Anyone who dismisses ANY method of learning is eliminating possibilities and putting a big "Detour" sign up on the road to learning. The problem, I believe, occurs when people rely on one method only and that method isn't enough to fill their needs. It doesn't matter if the only method they use is learning from sheet music or tab, learning by ear, OR learning by the way fingers feel on the instrument - people need to have as many ways to learn as they can understand and use. |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: GUEST,Russ Date: 28 Nov 02 - 10:05 AM After decades of learning, teaching, playing, listening to other musicians' playing, talking to them about how they learned, etc. I've come to the conclusion that EVERY METHOD WORKS....for someone. And EVERY METHOD FAILS....for someone. It's sort of like the placebo effect. I have been awestruck by too many fiddlers who never had a second's worth of formal musical training to believe that music theory is essential. But I've been equally impressed with the music of too many fiddlers with classical training to believe that music theory is necessarily harmful. I've loved the music of too many fiddlers who can't read a note to believe that the ability to read music is essential. I've loved the music of too many fiddlers who can sight-read with the best of them to believe that the ability to read music is necessarily harmful. But you get the drift. I'm a teacher myself. There's no guaranteed, no-fail, one-size-fits-all approach to the teaching of anything, much less music. When I teach, my approach is always, at best, a sometimes uneasy compromise between what the student wants me to do and what I want to do, what the student actually needs and what I wish the student needed, the best approach for the student and the approach I want to take. |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: GUEST,arnie Date: 28 Nov 02 - 12:07 PM I guess everyone has a different way of using information as tools to play music. I do not know a lot about theory and I don't think about it much when I play, but it has taken many years of understanding the qualities of the kind of music I play to be able to play banjo with feeling. Not understanding thoery gets me in trouble sometimes when I play with other musicians (like Rick)- usually in the chroding department. I first used tabulature to get my technique happening and then I gave away all my tab books after realising that they were all someone elses ideas of how to play the tunes - much of which I disliked. So - I am an ear and gut player. I am sure many other good banjo players Kyle Creed, Fred Cockerham etc. don't /didn't think about theory much - they lived/live the banjo and the music. |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: GUEST,Frankham Date: 28 Nov 02 - 12:17 PM Theory is what people put together after some musician shows them how to do it. Bach created a theory and broke every rule he made. Charlie Parker created a whole different theory and in the case of thesee musical geniuses, they did it first and someone made a theory out of it. Theory in my opinion can be useful if it doesn't get in the way of musicality. I don't think we "think" music, I believe we "play" it. If theory opens the ears and helps the student to take in a wider view of music, than that's good. If it closes off creativity and enslaves a mind toward pedanticism, than who needs it? I don't believe there's a "should" here. Theory can help. It can also be a hindrance. (A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.) Music first.....theory second. Frank |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: Banjer Date: 28 Nov 02 - 12:25 PM Sure, music theory is good....it allows us to see when and where we screwed up!! Seriously though, I have an excellent book that I refer to entitled: The Basic Guide To Reading Music by Helen Cooper, Perigee Books, part of the Putnam Publishing Group. |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: JedMarum Date: 28 Nov 02 - 12:38 PM Theory is a good way of understanding what you're hearing, and it porvides you short cuts of undertanding where you want to go with the instrument. There are may ways to teach, and teach successfully ... ear training is important. I think very important for banjo, and other folk style instruments - but theory cannot hurt, (as long it doesn't discourage the player/student, of course). I think a lot about this subject, now - as an old, long time player. I know that the work I put into practice and learning as a kid make all the difference in my progress as an adult. I than God every day that I loved music enough as a kid to work at learning (I didn't think of it as work). It has made me a much better player today. But I could have spent more time on theory. It would help me be more communicative with other musicians - it could have helped my ability to pick up other insturments. Now I depend upon "feel" if I try to define what it is, where I'm going, I have a harder then if I feel my way through it. I play instruments with several tunings, between banjo, guitar - different chord forms, etc. Sometimes, unless I'm on my primary instrument (standard guitar) people will ask what key I'm in or what chords I'm playing - and I have to really work to tell 'em - but I could easily improvize and follow along with them, if I don't think about what I'm doing. |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: Rick Fielding Date: 29 Nov 02 - 11:37 AM Thanks for all the interesting feedback. My guess is that most folks feel that theory is not that important for a banjo player (learning folk styles) Actually I only started finding theory interesting when I started teaching. Prior to that I relied on a good ear and a lot of experience, to be able to play along with somebody on something I didn't know. I AM big on the "number system" though. To be able to indicate the whole chord structure of a complicated song to someone in twenty seconds on a slip of paper no bigger than a matchbox is a neat trick. Cheers Rick |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: Steve Latimer Date: 29 Nov 02 - 11:43 AM Rick, I'll supply the Matchbox, when do I get to see the trick? Steve |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: dick greenhaus Date: 29 Nov 02 - 12:43 PM I've quoted it before, and I'll quote it again: Bad banjo players play Scruggs. Mediocre banjo players play bluegrass. Good banjo players play banjo. Real good banjo players play music. And if you're playing music, theory is a very convenient way of aspproaching a tune, communicating a tune and remembering a tune. |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: JedMarum Date: 29 Nov 02 - 12:57 PM I like your conclusion, dick! |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: GUEST,Foe Date: 29 Nov 02 - 02:45 PM I took violin lessons when I was in elementary school for a year. Then took a sight singing course in High School when I was in chorus. It came in very useful when I searched out obscure pieces in collections of folk songs, like Vance Randolph's, and could figure out melodies for songs that no one else knew or had ever heard. "Drunkard's Lone Child" was a crowd pleaser. |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: Rick Fielding Date: 29 Nov 02 - 04:50 PM Dick, do you remember that ol' slag at three-finger pickers called "The Scruggs Picker"? It was on one of the Broadside Albums. I believe it had Pete Seeger playing laughably bad rolls in the background and may have been recited by Patrick Sky. It ended with the line "And the truth is not within him". Sadly I have to say that for a short time I was one of those people who thought that frailing was the only REAL banjo style. That was UNTIL I saw Flatt and Scruggs in one of their last shows together. I practically cried I was so overcome with....whatever.... What an amazing musician. Dynamics, timing and astonishing taste and reserve. I'm not talking about after the split (or even their last two or three sad albums together when they were "doing" Dylan and Buffy St Marie"), I mean the work from '46 to about '64. I currently have a three hour tape of old black and white clips from their Martha White TV show, and to watch the choreography of that band....and the subtelty of Earl Scruggs....Mmmmmmmmmmm. Dot's music! Rick |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: Peter T. Date: 29 Nov 02 - 06:05 PM Of course he has the personality of a tobacco store wooden Indian. (Not that I mean any slur against any multinational tobacco company, any wood products, indigenous sculptors, or any aboriginal peoples). yours, Peter T. |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: dick greenhaus Date: 29 Nov 02 - 07:58 PM Rick- You misunderstand me. Earl Scruggs clearly plays music. He clearly did not limit himself to any slavish repetition of pattern or style. Which is more than one can say about all too many "Scruggs Pickers" who followed. The same things can be said about "Travis Pickers". I suspect that Earl knew a good deal about how music was put together, whether it was formal theory or not. I know Merle Travis did. |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: Rick Fielding Date: 29 Nov 02 - 09:24 PM Actually I DID understand Dick. I should have said that at first, 'cause I sounded a bit oblique. Earl (who was inherently musical) never learned to read music, and Travis (posibly in my view, the most technically accomplished player I've ever seen) was taught how to read by Alton Delmore in 1946 when they were both on King records as part of the Brown's Ferry Four. By then Travis' style was very formed. Alton wrote an amazing book (where I got that info) called "Truth is Stranger Than Publicity". It's hard to get and it's written in "country grammar" but I've read it now at least 20 times.....'course I'm a bit of an idiot when it comes to this kind of thing ha ha! One of my beefs about tab is that encourages direct copying...but hopefully the student moves away from it after a while. |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: dick greenhaus Date: 29 Nov 02 - 09:58 PM The many fine musicians that never studied theory developed their own logic about what worked musically---which is what theory is, anyway. If you're a genius, go ahead and make up your own rules. |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: GUEST,daylia Date: 30 Nov 02 - 02:22 PM In my opinion, anyone interested in playing/writing music benefits from studying music theory. Basic theory can be applied across the board to any and all instruments one is attempting to learn, including banjo. Studying theory inspires one to try something more interesting than the time-worn, tedious 3-chord progressions. In teaching music, basic theory plus ear training plus lots of encouragement to be creative can make decent composers out of even the most timid of students. And I've heard plenty of self-taught folksy types who would really benefit from a fundamental understanding of rhythm and metre...and keys... I've heard a lot of people bemoan the fact that they never learned how to read music, but I can't remember one who regretted that they had...and as far as music theory stunting creativity, I guess that depends on who's teaching it and how. |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: Don Firth Date: 30 Nov 02 - 02:53 PM What GUEST,daylia said. Among many folk musicians there is the myth that music theory is nothing but a bunch of rules and restrictions and learning it will clip one's creative wings, so to speak. Nothing could be further from the truth. When I first dipped a toe into music theory (after having been warned that it would destroy me as a folk musician), I started discovering what was possible. It opened up whole new worlds. For a musician of any kind to avoid learning music theory makes about as much sense as a scientist trying to avoid any knowledge of mathematics. Don Firth |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: GUEST,daylia Date: 30 Nov 02 - 04:43 PM Hear hear, Don!! Music is both a science and an art - the language of the heart AND of the mind, so to speak. Composing, improvising, playing 'by ear' satisfies the heart, while understanding and applying the 'theory' behind it satisfies the mind. For me, it's not enough to know that something 'sounds good' or 'works well' musically. I need to know WHY it sounds good or works well! Those answers are found in music theory, making for a more 'holistic' musical experience. And, as you said, those answers open me up to "whole new worlds" of musical possibilities..... I ... JUST... LOOOOVE ... MUSIC .... (Sorry, had to let that out...) |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: Seamus Date: 30 Nov 02 - 04:43 PM Absolutely love this thread: I picked up the tenor banjo about 6 months ago. I have never been a theory player. There are several reasons for this, but they're all peripheral. I agree that theory does not stifle your creative impulse or mastery, nor does it enhance these qualities on its own. You can read, write and say words; it doesn't make you a poet. Now, back to learning banjo: The whole story for me is utility. In songwriting and guitar, there are natural leaps my ear is able to make. It's natural for me at this point. Banjo is a different story all together. I sit with fiddlers and the few other pickers in my area and go with ears and eyes and faith. When I return home, I open the books and try to match things up for my fingers to rememeber. Utility. It's just that simple. |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: Rick Fielding Date: 30 Nov 02 - 04:52 PM Just thought of something. In the late sixties, I was called for a lot of recording sessions on various instruments. By the mid seventies, I rarely got called. I'd lost those sessons to folk musicians who could 'read'. Could I play better than the folks I was replaced by? Well I certainly think so.....but.....it would take me a few minutes to learn a new tune, by hearing it a couple of times, whereas the 'reading' musician just read it off the sheet music first time, and studios were expensive. Had I learned to read earlier, there are a lot of bars I wouldn't have had to play. When I DID learn to read it sure didn't affect my ability to improvise. Cheers Rick |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: banjomad (inactive) Date: 30 Nov 02 - 05:19 PM shud a banjo player have theory? don't talk so feckin stupid. Piece and luv, dave |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: GUEST Date: 30 Nov 02 - 05:21 PM There's no need for you to learn any theory when learning an instrument. Of course, you WILL reinvent the wheel quite a few times on your journey to competency but that's just the "folk way' isn't it? I mean why take advantage of what other people have learned. That's what those "paper trained musicians" do and we sure don't want to be like them. Nope, a knowledge of theory isn't necessary any more than a vehicle is necessary to get from Maine to California. But it sure doesn't hurt. troll |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: Don Firth Date: 30 Nov 02 - 05:36 PM Terry, a friend of mine, got hired by Randy Sparks to sing in "The New Christy Minstrels." He sang with them for about a year. But somewhere along the line, Sparks got upset because rehearsals were taking too darned long (he had to pay them for rehearsal time). Like a couple of others in the group, Terry didn't know how to read music and had to learn his parts by ear. This wasted the time of those who could read music and had come to rehearsal already knowing their parts. Sparks issued an edict. Everybody in the group had to know how to read music. If you don't know how, learn! Terry refused. Sparks canned him. Insisting on being "pure" can cost you. The question is: are you going to be a true "folk singer" and just sing for fun and the amusement of a few friends, or do you want people to pay you for performing, in which case you are no longer a "folk singer" in the strictest sense, you aspire to be a professional musician—and it's reasonable that people should expect you to know at least the basics of your profession. Don Firth |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: GUEST,Chicken Charlie Date: 30 Nov 02 - 06:30 PM IMO, the ability to read either standard notation or tablature has nothing to do with "theory." Neither does where to put your fingers. Neither does playing by ear or not. Neither does getting paid or not. (Paid for playing? What a concept!) Neither does whether you play the banjo, the calliope or the tuba. Theory comes in when you have gotten a song down cold in C and the lead singer says "That's too low, can you do it in E-flat." If you are theoryless, you either change harmonicas, capo up, or go home. I do not subscribe to the "Real men don't capo" idea, because there is a difference between how Wabash Cannonball sounds in C at one and how it sounds played in G capoed up to C. But that's a separate issue; I just don't want anybody objecting "well, you can always capo." You can, but sometimes for better and sometimes for worse. Theory is knowing how to make a major into a minor, or where to add a seventh, ninth, etc. I don't know how many times people have said something like, "Where on the web can I find chord forms for a [insert instrument name] in the alternate tuning of [insert any key]?" A wee bit of theory would solve all that. Khandu is right, for my money; a kazoo player could benefit from theory. As to knowledge blocking creativity, I strongly disagree to the point of getting nasty and saying that's an excuse for laziness. Richie--I only half agree. Rolls are important, but what is the left hand doing in the meantime??? You can't just play "the banjo." You have to play A SONG on a banjo. And that takes theory to do well. CC |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: GUEST,Bill Date: 01 Dec 02 - 06:26 PM Yes he should know theory and stick exclusively to it. (Only joking Nic.) Bill (the sound) |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: JedMarum Date: 01 Dec 02 - 08:07 PM Sounds like we're in fierce agreement! I played a Civil War (CW) event out in VA last year, and one of the performers was called, The Banjo Doctor. He was a really fine player, and enjoyed doing the CW stuff up completely; dressed in correct costume, played only period instuments (at the festival) - so he had two lovely gut stringed, fretless banjos. We did a final set together, because of schedule changes and it went pretty well - but I had been asked to play a song that had a key change, and he was already tuned down two half steps - besides the chord progression had quite a bit of change to it (though the melody made it predicatable). I had played with him enough to know that he was a good musician and could at least stay "out of the way" during the odd bits - but the truth is he kept right up - key change be damned, on a fretless banjo!!! This guy knew his sh*t! He knew his theory. I asked him after the show about his stage name, "The Banjo Doctor." I expected he'd been given the title because he was so good, or maybe because he fixed banjos or something. He told me he was called that because he was medical doctor! Ran a family practice clinic nearby! I was floored. This was one very fine, very well schooled musician - and a hell of a banjo. What was he doing wasting his time with that lousey day job!! |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: Charley Noble Date: 01 Dec 02 - 08:48 PM It also helps a lot to have people to play with. I doubt if I would have reached my current level of banjo playing if I hadn't chased fiddle tunes in a contradance band for ten years. However, I don't read music and don't really understand how the music I'm familar with is put together, and I get easily frustrated when I encounter different musical subcultures. I'm not sure there is a theory that would help me. I probably need a new mentor. Charley Noble |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: GUEST Date: 02 Dec 02 - 01:20 PM "music theory" is nothing more or less than the collection of musical elements that are used in a particular kind of music, along with the rules for when and where they are used--when you learn to play banjo you are learning "theory" and when you teach banjo, you are teaching "theory"-- Parts of that theory include what the drone string is and how to use it, how to relate to the melody line to the drone, the rolls, and where and how they are used, as well what rhythmic and melodic elments that are used in the leads, as well as the rules for creating intros, fills, and turnarounds--you also have to learn what kinds of melodies work , and all of the conventions for improvising-- Of course, this is not your classical music theory, but it is theory, and without understanding it , you aren't going to get the music to sound right---- |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: Art Thieme Date: 02 Dec 02 - 05:58 PM Theoretically they shought, but not theorhetorically. ART THIEME |
Subject: RE: Should a banjo player know theory? Why? From: Richie Date: 02 Dec 02 - 11:47 PM Johnny wanted to be the best banjo picker in his sleepy little town in the hills of Kentuck. Every day when he got home from school and did his chores he got out his Gibson Mastertone and did his rolls, scales and chromatic runs that his last teacher had showed him. His teacher finally said, "Johnny, you're too good for me. There's nothing left I can teach you. You know all your chords, scales and notes up the neck. You can read TAB and play along with any song. You're on your own." One day someone told him about a man that taught at the local university, and had even played the banjo with an orchestra. So Johnny called the Dr. Frank and arranged to see him that Saturday. Johnny was very excited and brought some sheet music for piano and his favorite CD with him as his father dropped him off at Dr. Frank's house. Propped up next to the piano was the most ornately carved banjo Johnny had seen. "I hear you know everything about music," said Johnny. "I should," said Dr. Frank. "I teach advanced composition and the theory class at the University," he said looking at the CD and music Johnny was holding. "What have you got there?" he asked. "Earl Scruggs," said Johnny. "Here I'll put it on for you to play with." "Oh no," said Dr. Frank, "I couldn't do that." He picked up Johnny's sheet music and played the melody note for note. |
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