Redneck is an insulting word

Subject: Redneck is an insulting word
From: wilco
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:15 AM

I'm always surprised to see or hear this word from people who would appear to be otherwise considerate of others.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Raptor
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:24 AM

It is only insulting when directed at someone in paticular!

To call someone, or a group of people redneck is wrong, like the word Moron or Idiot. But it is not so bad for describing a behavior or a president!

Raptor

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: MMario
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:29 AM

words are not insulting - the way they are used is insulting.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: wilco
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:30 AM

It's in very poor taste. That's like trying to justify the use of words like nigger or kike.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: MMario
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:36 AM

it has *become* poor taste due to the way it has been used. And thus is in a different class of words then those which were derogatory to begin with. (and even some of *those* the demeaning parts are due to usage rather then inherent quality or derivation of the word).

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:39 AM

I've never thought of the word as inherently insulting. Just means a laborer, doesn't it? It's come to mean something else because people spit it out as an epithet and others choose to react as if it were one. The folks using the word aren't the problem - it's the ones who buy into and promote the nastier meaning.

I'm aware that some white supremicists have used Celtic designs. Now, I could stop wearing those designs on my T-shirts because I don't want to be identified with white supremecists, or I could just keep wearing them and re-inforce the meaning they have for me. Let those who are offended try to tell me why they think I wear the designs so I can explain - not that there's any guarantee people who are that easily offended will listen.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:42 AM

In the beginning, the word "redneck" was not offensive at all, it was a description of the sunburnt necks of farmers who worked hard under the hot sun in the Southern U.S. Writers like Lewis Grizzard took pride in the word "redneck" as a metaphor for the hard, honest living that embodied the lives of past relatives, as well as those who still continue to work in such conditions. Unfortunately, various "comedians" and pop culture have transformed the word into a stereotype of slow-witted, gun-toting, racist Southerners. Despite the negative connotations it has today, I still would not put it on the same lever as a racial slur.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Raptor
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:43 AM

I agree with MMario Its not the word its the way its used! the N word was used to refer to one race in paticular, Redneck can be used in fun to describe anyone and was used in fun by selfproclaimed redneck comedian Jeff Foxworthey!

The N word was never used in fun!

If you try hard enough you can be offended by anything, but thats usualy people without a sense of humor!

In these P.C. times the first casualty is Sense of humor!

Raptor

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Matt_R
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:45 AM

Sorry about that, the GUEST post was me.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,daylia
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:55 AM

Last year I spent a few months on beautiful Vancouver Island in a little fishing village. I'm from Ontario, so I was aware that plenty of people on the west coast don't care much for Easterners. I was ready to take it in stride ...

The first day I was walking on the beach, I happened by an elderly couple gathering seaweed for their garden. We chatted a little, and when I answered their question "Where are you from?", the old man looked at me and grumbled "Ahhhh ... everyone from Ontario is a REDNECK!"

Now I could have been insulted, but as he said it I couldn't take my eyes off HIS neck. It was wrinkled and flabby and so red - purple really - he looked like a rooster! This really tickled my funny-bone, and I walked away laughing, pleasantly wishing them a good day.

Guess it takes one to know one, eh?

daylia

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: KarlMarx
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 12:28 PM

Like all words, it's how it's used. I worry more about people with guns, than people with tongues . . .
   As I mentioned before, my dad was a "redneck," with the requisite sun-burned face, neck and arms. But he was a very tolerant man. But I have to disagree with Raptor: rightly or wrongly, the N-word has been used in fun, by black folks towards each other. My dad was a foreman of a construction crew (you can imagine what the language was like there), and one black guy called the other the "dreaded word." My dad asked him what was up with that - specifically, it was OK for him to say that to another black person, but a similar use of the word by a white person (what is a white person, anyways?) would have brought down the wrath of God. The man told my father that it's OK for black people to use it amongst each other, but not for whites to use it in referring to blacks.
   I think that a large number of the people who are upset by the use of the term "redneck" (present company excepted) are white people - either folks of the liberal persuasion who want everyone to talk nicely to each other (i.e., politically correct language), or bigots who are offended when their bigotry is pointed out using derogatory and class-suggestive slurs (i.e., politically incorrect language). My fantasy is to see Harry Bellafonte, after the big flap over his racial comments concerning fellow African American Colin Powell, lecture all us white folks on the tasteful and proper terms in describing Caucasian America and its denizens. We white people should never refer to each other as poor white trash, inbred, honky, sheet, whitey, cracker, mud-sill, stump-jumper, ridge-runner, swamp-angel, wigger, or, God forbid - redneck.
   To be honest, when I was in a long term relationship with another man, we would often times call each other "fag," or "queer." Now, I would've looked askance at a homophobic bigot if he/she called us that, but it was OK - as the black guy similarly told my father once about racial slurs - for me and my partner to use homophobic language towards each other mutually and in fun (I wasn't gay, but my boyfriend was . . .)
   In fact, some straight people overheard us once, and lectured us on how the words "fag" and "queer" are bad words, and should never be used. I thanked them for "enlightening" us . . .

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 12:34 PM

Gee, is someone from Ontario and easterner..I guess east of Ontario is beyond the pale.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 12:55 PM

it has indicated 'poor, Southern, rural' for a long time, but it sure has gotten an extra boost as NOT a good thing since that comedian began making his living on it....like this ..http://www.fortogden.com/foredneck.html

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 12:57 PM

Welcome to Rednecks only. Redneck Listen to their "Dueling Banjos." Don't look at the pics. This is the real thang!

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Gareth
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 01:04 PM

Roinek ???? (Taal)

Gareth

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 01:04 PM

A redneck was a laborer, someone who "built this country with [his] shoulders and his back/The man who built the power dams and oiled all the cars." And it's not usually the college-educated, urban folk who join the military as enlisted personnel, either, but the children of laborers, farmers, blacks, hispanics, and so on.

Redneck shouldn't be a brand of infamy, but it has been made one by the elitist thinking of some urbanites. It's like calling someone a "dumb farmer" -- the person doing the name-calling couldn't do the work, but feels superior to those that can.

There's another thread around about coonjine songs. "Nigger" is used there -- would you sing it? Especially if you are white? In public? Yet one of the strongest characters in literature is known only as "Nigger Jim"....

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Reynolds
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 01:35 PM

Here's a little ditty by Texas's own Ray Wylie Hubbard. It's also sung by Jerry Jeff Walker.

Up Against the Wall Redneck Mother (Ray Wylie Hubbard)

He was born in West Virginia,
His wife's name's Betty Lou Thelma Liz
And he's not responsible for what he's doing
Cause his mother made him what he is.

And it's up against the wall Redneck Mother,
Mother, who has raised her son so well.
He's thirty-four and drinking in a honky tonk.
Just kicking hippies asses and raising hell.

Sure does like his Falstaff beer,
Likes to chase it down with that Wild Turkey liquor;
Drives a fifty-seven GMC pickup truck;
He's got a gun rack; "Goat ropers need love, too" sticker

And it's up against the wall Redneck Mother,
Mother, who has raised her son so well.
He's thirty-four and drinking in a honky tonk.
Just kicking hippies asses and raising hell.

Well,
M is for the mudflaps you give me for my pickup truck
O is for the Oil I put on my hair
T is for T-bird
H is for Haggard
E is for eggs, and
R is for REDNECK.

Up against the wall Redneck Mother,
Mother, who has raised her son so well.
He's thirty-four and drinking in a honky tonk.
Kicking hippies asses and raising hell.

He's up against the wall Redneck Mother,
Mother, who has raised her son so well.
He's thirty-four and drinking in a honky tonk.
Just kicking hippies asses and raising hell.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 01:48 PM

Well, it wasn't a dirty word when Woody Guthrie used it in tribute to the striking miners who fought back after the Ludlow Massacre in 1914:

...The state soldiers jumped us in a wire fence corner
They did not know that we had these guns,
And the red neck miners mowed down them troopers -
You should have seen those poor boys run

And here's a page I found about what actually happened that time.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: KarlMarx
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 01:52 PM

Good question, Rapaire. I remember, when I was a college-educated elitist, I was taking a seminar in graduate school, where we looked at racial stereotypes in American art, literature and music. When it came time to discuss Huckleberry Finn and Uncle Tom's Cabin, the professor, God bless him, had the hardest time uttering aloud the character's name that you mentioned: Nigger Jim. Every time he went to say the name, he lowered his voice, kinda like when you walk past a cemetery at night - you run fast! I will admit, that if asked to sing such a coonjine song, that the word would stick in my throat, but, who knows . . .
   There was an interesting series of articles in the National Council on the Arts publication a little while ago. There was, recently, a traveling exhibition of art and critical literature associated with the 1885 publication of The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. One article discussed the furor that arose among white people at the time over the "vulgar and inappropriate language of the characters." Huck's terrible misuse of the English tongue - particularly all those "ain'ts" and "niggers" - offended the white Northern elites who were, understandably, trying to help the former slaves become integrated into American life in the post Civil War years. Many of those elites, who were educators as well, were thus also upset with the slang that Twain used to flesh out the language of an adolescent boy living along the Mississippi River in ante-bellum Missouri. There were a number of organizations formed, to ban Twain's novel from public libraries. Later on, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn was banned from schools and libraries - North and South alike - because many saw the relationship between Jim and Huck as inappropriate, both along racial lines, as well as the subtle homoerotic themes (or so the censors thought) that existed between the protagonists. Yes, Nigger Jim is one of the strongest characters ever created in American literature. And over the criticism of the use of earthy, vulgar, inappropriate, tasteless language in song and printed word, Mark Twain would take a puff on his cigar (Cuban, of course), and tell the critics to go . . .

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,daylia
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 02:06 PM

GUEST, Canada's such a big place that for simplicity I consider everyone between Winnipeg and the Atlantic Ocean an 'easterner', and everyone between Winnipeg and the Pacific Ocean a 'westerner'. Didn't mean to step on anyone's toes.

As to being "beyond the pale", the first person that sprang to mind was Clint Eastwood. Poor guy even missed out on being Canadian! :-)

daylia

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 02:24 PM

All during the 19th century, and up to WW1 and later, Blacks outside of the more affluent, well-educated groups referred to themselves as "niggers" in their songs and stories. It is impossible to know Black oral traditions without seeing and using the word constantly.
Much the same is true of Redneck, where, as Gojira says, the narrow-minded elite, trying to rewrite history in their own image, have attempted to turn the word into an insult.

In the collection of Black memorabilia by Blacks- all of the old postcards, dolls, salt and pepper shakers, lamps, etc. which have become intensively sought for and thus very expensive- and in the revival of the word "nigger" by in your face young Blacks in their rap music and conversation- there may be the seeds of acceptance of the past and hope that history will not be hobbled by the excessive "correctness" of zealots.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Burke
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 02:25 PM

The first time I ever heard the word Redneck it was used in an insulting way. Most of the time I've heard it, it was as an insult.

Ron Thomason uses Redneck to describe himself, but the context has always sounded to me like deliberately using the insulting term to take the sting out. A bit like the "White Trash" cookbook.

One can also buy t-shirts in the Gulf Shores, Alabama-Pensacola, Florida area that call it the Red Neck Riveria. Again, it's always hit me as a deliberate use of an insult, why else that description?

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 02:49 PM

I'm a redneck - never thought it was much of anything. And it certainly is not in the same vein as racial slurs.

Jus' anuder Rednek -

Steve

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 02:49 PM

Well danged, Wilco. Iz' feeling real corn-fused now. See, I think "moron" as more inflamatory than "redneck". And also less descriptive. Yeah, I probably have refered to Bush, Junior as a "redneck" but I know I have used the term to describe many of the folks in Congress because the term, to me, fits. These folks, by inlarge, are white folks who rather tahn appeal to the intellect of the American votoer, instead appeal to the emotions of the voters.

Well, if Ive learned one thing about rednecks is that if keep information on an emotional basis, especially if the information is spiced with bigotry, then all is well. But don't try to get these folks to discuss much of anything, other than NASCAR, in depth becuase if it won't fit on a bumper sticker, it most likely won't fit in their minds either.


Now if this makes anyone madder than usual at this ol' hillbilly, I'm sorry. But having lived in South Richmond, Va. for many years and the last 18 years living with hillbillies, Iz here to say that there are lot of ignorant, racist, intolerant white people in America and a few too many of 'em in high places.

Bobert

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Just Amy
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 03:06 PM

Is not.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: mack/misophist
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 03:12 PM

It was a Chinese friend of mine who convinced me that a term is perjorative if the group it's aimed at takes it as perjorative. I didn't think "Chinaman" was offensive, just illiterate. But if a Chinese (actually, it has to be most Chinese) is offended, then what can it be but offensive. Here we have a case where most of the people who can wear the 'redneck' label are NOT offended by it. I'm not. David Allen Coe isn't. So why don't we sweep this PC bullshit under the rug until a sea of rednecks rises up to oppose the usage? And by opposing, gets a new label.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Cluin
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 03:36 PM

Whine Alert!

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 03:37 PM

redneck?

Baaah...

I prefer using the term "Meshback" on 'those people'....

It's MORE insulting, and fewer people use it...

:-)

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 03:49 PM

How about "rednose" for me and Rudolph?

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,Cooter
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 04:12 PM

Billy Bob, ya ever stood on one of them rubber mats made all over with nice big titties? Git yo' gal to buy you one fer Christmas.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 04:26 PM

L'ard bloody Jezus, so there were these two "Reg guys" from Northern Ontario eh? Anyhoo, the one Reg says to the other Reg, "Geez, NOW I know why we didn't catch any ducks last week, eh?"

"Why's that" says the other Reg?

"We weren't throwin' the dog high enuff, eh?"

"Well maybe", says the one Reg, "but we done OK when we went Ice fishin' the next day, eh?"

"Darn right....we got us a couple of months supply for the beer"!
*************************************************************
Seriously, it's pretty difficult NOT to insult someone who's lookin' to be insulted. Be yourself....if someone asks you not to use a word around them...don't use it.

The first time I played in Newfoundland, I became aware of "Mainlander" jokes. They're predicated on the assumption that a "mainlander" might have a college education but has no 'common sense'.

On the other hand, while 'mainlander' and 'Reg' are in common use and never struck me as insulting (in a hurtful way), some people still use the word "Squaw", when talking about a Native woman, and wouldn't think twice about calling a Native guy "Chief". I wouldn't. Hmmm,I think I'm talking myself out of my original point of view.

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: mg
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 04:36 PM

I have no doubt that in many of the posts here where the term is used, it is not used in a respectful way, and intolerance runs both ways, all ways. It is hard to be extremely critical of people you consider to be intolerant and be tolerant yourself. Although there are some things no one should tolerate..but a perceived lack of education, sophistication, etc. should not be the basis for ridicule...and I think people jump to conclusions about other things too but it is too complicated to explain.

mg

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 05:38 PM

Believing a word is always wrong in any circumstance saves a person having to try to understand what the other guy meant by it.

There are plenty of words that don't bother me because I don't see them as derogatory, but they might bother others. The 'N' word makes me cringe, no matter who's saying it but I'll still try to figure out whether someone meant to be nasty or not. I don't suppose I'd refer to anyone as 'queer' or 'redneck' unless I knew for sure they'd understand I was doing a bit of respectful piss-taking. Good friends can get away with that stuff but not strangers or polite acquaintances.

Words only exist only to represent ideas, and it's those ideas that must be understood, not the words.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: KarlMarx
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 06:12 PM

How about this: if Jesus Christ were to be walking the earth today, He would be telling parables, just as He did 2000 years ago. So, a middle-class woman was driving her SUV to her son's soccer practice, when she's car-jacked, thrown out of the vehicle, injured badly, and left for dead. Now, along drives a country club Republican, in a Lincoln Continental, who sees the poor injured woman lying bleeding in the road, but assuming her to be a homeless bag lady, keeps driving on by. Soon after, a liberal, driving a VW Bug, passes by, but is too busy to stop to help this poor heap of broken humanity, because he's on his way to a Hillary Clinton rally. Finally, a redneck, in his ole' Chevy pick-up truck with the gun rack and Confederate flag, pulls up to the scene. He gets out, and helps the poor victim into his truck - after he pushes the hound dog over - and then proceeds to the emergency room, where the woman, who lost her insurance card, has to wait for admittance (hey, it's the thought that counts). Now, as Jesus would put the question to us: who was the more righteous - the Republican, the liberal, or the redneck? "Why, Master, the redneck," you would say. To which Jesus would respond, "then you, too, go and be like that redneck . . ."

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,Taliesn
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 07:08 PM

Redneck is such an antiquated word now anyway. I remember when the "Northern" version of the original meaning word was "Hardhat"; namely working-class conservative Archie Bunker-type that was very vocal about whom they can't stand.

This is where the "Redneck" & 'Hardhat" sub-culture piss in the same pot as a very specific tribal mentality is expressed at this point and is even more insulting , in and of itself , to have to listen to.
Try listening to the epithets casually tossed around by either "type" on a construction job as I have and then have to deal with another trait of both that has been conviniently "left out" of this dialogue ; namely the palpable atmosphere of physical threat
to anyone who "don't fit in ". Basically the old and familiar goon-squad bullying. It's unfortunate when you also know guns and drugs often go with the territory and it only takes one with that mean streak to go off even without being alloyed with just plain folks alcohol.

So ,before one gets all bent outta shape over being so hyper-sensitive to feigning a sense of "insult" by ther mere mention of the word "redneck" ( a word I've forgotten to use until now ) think about the insults expressed in "redneck" culture that is just tolerated just 'cuz that's "our culture".
Are there rednecks with hearts of gold. Ofcourse there are, but to ignore the darker side of the redneck/hardhat culture as if it's all alright, well that's an insult to the knowledge of my experiencece.

Sauce fo' da goose be sauce fo' da gander.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: khandu
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 07:09 PM

I am a Redneck and I am damned proud of it!

khandu

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Amos
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 07:56 PM

Well there ya go. Offense is in the ear of the beholder, isn't it? And if you're ready for offense, and don't agree with my maxim, well, stick it in your ear and all will be well!


A

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 08:51 PM

Rednecks come in all sizes, shapes and races.
I put Redneck into Google and checked into http://countrymatch.com. : countrymatch
I put: lookin' fer a straight woman (don't like crooketty ones, cain't plow in straight furrers), 35-45 (so I mislead!), Texas (well, the center of the universe!). Come up with well over 100 possibles, both Black and White. Lynette is 230 pounds, 5'5" (she cud handle them dang mules); "Trinisweety" from Trinidad, loves to be sexy and sensus but writes potry (naw, would be settin' an' composin' like some of these here mudcats 'stead a wukkin'), "Latina from Costa Rica," loves to dance (now that's a time-waster fur shur); "Prairie Girl" (from south of Dallas, has her own little acerage)- Hmmm, might be sumthin' worth checkin' into thur---.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 10:58 PM

You're obviously from different stalk, Wilco.

From my neck of the woods "red-neck" is a gen-U-wine compliment.

You work hard, drink hard, you fuck hard

and get hard with anyone that fucks with you.

Wilco...Stay in your prissy little garden of prime-rose posseys, no one wants your pussilanemous prick parading around pretending to be a real man. A redneck carries sixteen pounds of swingin meat, drinks his corn from a Mason-jar, and can stand flat-footed and piss in the radiator of a Mac-Truck.

Sincerely
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:01 PM

Guest Q...

I hope you and Wilco end up in the same New York City cell.

They can fight over who will be Bubba's beauty for the night.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Tweed
Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:57 PM

Whut the Hail is all this now????

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 12:30 AM

This is all I have to say on the subject:CLICK HERE!

Bruce

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Art Thieme
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 01:22 AM

Since fols are wearing their baseball caps backwards, there ain't no rednecks any more.

;-)

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Rapparee
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 08:15 AM

Okay, my point was that (WARNING: Insult alert! Insult alert!) the rednecks, niggers, wops, kikes, hunkies, bohunks, huns, polacks, hillbillies, farmers, russkies, cowboys, chinks, regs, mainlanders, FIBbies, dutchies, navvies, micks, greasers, tinkers, good ol' boys, and others built the USA and every other country. Without them there would be no bridges, railroads, buildings, food,freedom *or much of anything else*.

Those on the top don't build, but they look down with scorn on those who built the pedestal on which they stand.

I've been insulted by those who were experts in the art and by those who were less than creative, but I'd be proud to be numbered among those mentioned above.

Just don't call me a politician!

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Raptor
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 09:09 AM

I have decided that the word CHEEZE offends me and I would ask all mudcatters never to us the word CHEESE in my presence as a mater of fact I ask that you never use the word CHEESE again in case I'm lurking and or don't have time to sign in.

And I recomend that we take up a petition banning the word CHEESE from the english language! (and FROMAGE from French).

Thank you

Raptor

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 09:27 AM

Hi Gareth,

"Roinek" - Redneck - term used by Boers, in either a slighly mocking or derogatory sense, to describe the British - earliest use I can find of it goes back to first Zulu War.

Cheers

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: jimmyt
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 11:29 AM

Wilco, I think this is a fascinating thread. I guess I feel somewhat different about the term as being an insult per se. I guess I think of "racial slurs" are based on things that are totally out of a person's control, ie their color, national origin or other ethnic/religion persuasion. This type classification, to me , is a little different that making a comment such as Rick Fielding mentions in his comments about Newfoundlanders referring to mainlanders. Lots of these type things occur all over the country or world in reference to people not from your geographic area. People in Maine joke about Quebecois, people in Ohio talk about hillbillys in West Virginia and Kentucky, city folk mock country bumpkins, and vice versa. I am short in stature but I think Randy Newman's song Short People is hilarious. If, however, he wrote a song about fat people of dwarfs/midgits,(little people) I think that would be offensive. By and large, this type thing may get a bit boring, but no harm is intended, and personally I have a problem classifying these things in the same vein as the N word, etc. I think any generalizations tend to be incorrect, and I can see why you would get offended by them. In other words, we live 25 miles apart, and it can be a bit grating when people generalize that all southerners are rednecks. I do, however, think that as a group of white racist bigots, if that is the group you are referring to (which I guess makes us all guilty of "classifying"people) well, these folks do not have to be the way they are. THere is no reason that just because you are born in the south of working class people that you have to espouse the intolerant racial ignorant lifestyle that most people think of when the term redneck is used. I think there are a lot of rednecks (you can plug in the term bigot if you wish) and incidently they are not indigenous to the south. I have encountered as many of them in California, upstate New York, Vermont, Canada, certainly where I grew up in Ohio, (half of my family are in this group,) and I feel sure there are a lot of these folks outside of the USA also. (Please don't write in offended by the places I singled out. I feel sure that if I thought about it, I could include almost anywhere.) I do not think it is politically incorrect to dislike bigots. On another vein, I have been referred to as a WASP, a term that I find derogatory, but I haven't noticed a lot of folks rallying to be offended at this term. I guess it is in the usage. I am in fact a white anglosaxon protestent male but if this is used as me being from a "privileged" class, well then it offends me because it is simply not true. Having said all this and whined a little myself, I still think it is in the usage rather than the term itself.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: NicoleC
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 12:07 PM

Hmm. I grew up in a white-trash redneck southern family, and both sides of the family are WV or SW VA hillbillies pt boot. "Redneck" was a derogatory term to refer to anyone who drive faster than my Dad, drove slower than my Dad, or did anything my Dad disapproved up.

One day, when I was about 8, I asked my Dad wasn't he a redneck too? You see, Dad had a major farmer's tan and literally had the red neck.

Dad was not amused.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 02:24 PM

Rapaire, Well said! One addition. They not only built the country, they fought in its wars and got no respect for it. Also add the Injuns. If they had reservation status, they missed out on a lot of benefits given to others. This was particularly true in Canada, but I have also heard bitter complaints from some who fought in the American uniform as well.
I am thinking of a man from Illinois, near Shawneetown, whom I met when doing field work. He kept his war medals in his lure box along with other mementos of the war. He drove a pickup (a necessity with country people) with the Stars and Bars proudly displayed on the windshield, in memory of his great grandfather who had fought with the Rebel Cavalry and to make his political statement. We ate the free fried catfish (served with the beer) in bars near the River. I was a student working on my thesis and free food was always welcome. He went with me to a couple of hard-to-find localities up creeks tributary to the River. He had been a Hard Hat as well, having working in construction in Chicago, but couldn't stand the city or the people. He was prejudiced against Blacks, the hatred directed against city Blacks, but he was civil to those we met while we were together. He was mostly complimentary about the Bohunks he had met in construction in Chicago, they had similar views. His experiences had made him anti-government and extremely right wing. His income was from occasional part-time jobs, including bartending, and a small government pension for a leg injury. If he is still alive, I am sure that he would be proud to be known as a redneck.

Subject: RE: Redneck is an insulting word
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 10 Dec 02 - 03:52 PM

My ancient experience with the term is a little different than is cited above. Maybe it's just a local thing.

From: Jeri - Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:39 AM

I've never thought of the word as inherently insulting. Just means a laborer, doesn't it?

This is a trivialization of the term, and frankly, to me, a distasteful one. It turns the term into a "class label," which is something it was not, when I learned it.

From: GUEST - Date: 09 Dec 02 - 11:42 AM

In the beginning, the word "redneck" was not offensive at all, it was a description of the sunburnt necks of farmers who worked hard under the hot sun in the Southern U.S.

My own impression would be that this is an "explanation" invented to elevate a previously (sometimes) derogatory term in the name of "political correctness." Again, it is a "class slur," even if not meant in an unfriendly way. It's akin to the police departments putting "Patience - Integrity - Guts" on the side of their patrol cars and then claiming "that was what it alway meant." If this were a "true" etiology, the "in the Southern US" would be gratuitous, since anyone who works in the hot sun anywhere gets a "farmers neck."

In my experience, the earler usages of the term did not necessarily mean "Southern." In fact, my first "personal encounter" with organized groups that "proudly" called themselves "redneck" was in Wisconsin.

In Kansas, in the 1940s, where I first "learned" the term, the reference was to someone who got "red in the neck" ("hot under the collar," "all lathered up") because of any challenge to his (seldom applied to her then) "cultural bias." It did not refer to being "working class," "rural," or any other "class" distiction (even Southern). It described an attitude and behaviour, often characterised by knee-jerk response to "outsiders" - and sometimes with an implication of a tendency toward acting on the response.

In that time and place, the most common "triggers" for the red-in-the-neck response were largely racial prejudices, with "for'n religions" possibly close behind. I'm not sure that has changed much, although since that time "gays" and "hippies" (and ... make your own list here) have been added to the list.

In my own "mini-culture" of the era, the term was often used as an indication of disapproval for someone's "overreaction," but was considered "more polite" than "F***ing BIGOT." As the more polite term, it could also be used as a "friendly josh" with the right people.

One of the difficulties with most prejudice is that you can't defend it, so you have to be proud of it. Many were.

Later, 1974, at the office (in Wichita):
JiK - "Meisenheimer" (not an insult, that was his name) "You're real red-white-and-blue."
Mise (who is circulating an anti-gay rights petitition) - "Huh?" (slight grin).
JiK -"You've got your red neck, your white sheet, and your blue nose all hanging out."
Mise - "Thanks John" (walks away beaming - because he took it as a real compliment.)

Those who were proud of their prejudice found it quite easy to associate good and endearing traits to the term - 'cause after all, "good ol' boys" hang out together, so they gotta agree that what they are is "good." A "tradition" of citing the "good" has made "redneck" almost a term of endearment, in some circles, so that many of us don't feel shy about proclaiming ourselves as "rednecks" now. In 1950, a bumper sticker that said "I'm a Redneck" generally meant "I Hate *" with the "n-word" the common fill-in, but with almost any "them" an acceptable substitute. Some of them even spelled it out on the stickers - especially for the "other thems" - where people might miss their point.

Meanings change, and I don't mean to argue with the "definitions" previously given. In most of the U.S. today, redneck is not more than mildly derogatory, and may be seen as a compliment. (Trivialization of language by the Yuppies, who used to be just "Greedy Bastards.") It is something to describe the character and behaviour of individuals who meet the (high?) standard of "proper attitude," not a description of an economic, occupational, or social class as many try to use it now. That usage is mildly offensive to me - sometimes.

John

P.S.?

From: Gojira - Date: 09 Dec 02 - 12:28 PM

I think that a large number of the people who are upset by the use of the term "redneck" ... are ... either folks of the liberal persuasion who want everyone to talk nicely to each other (i.e., politically correct language), or bigots who are offended when their bigotry is pointed out using derogatory and class-suggestive slurs (i.e., politically incorrect language).

(Shall we ignore the implication that anyone who isn't a liberal is a bigot, as implied by the either/or construct? :-) Just shows how easy it is to "read something in" if you really want to be offended - and no criticism, or attribution of intent, of Gojira intended.

From a favorite and respected uncle, some 50 years ago:

"The difference between liberals and conservatives is that the liberal thinks we should have laws to make everyone do what he thinks they should do while the conservative thinks we should have laws to make everyone be like him. Both attitudes ignore the priciples of individual freedom that our nation's founders believed in."
(He may actually have said "Democrat" and "Republican" -?- it was a long time ago.)

John