BS: Letter to the President

Subject: BS: Letter to the President
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 07:24 AM

This (click)
National New Year's Resolution letter to President Bush says it more clearly and eloquently than most of what I've heard. I've signed it. Maybe some of you will as well.

An excerpt:
Dear President Bush:

Throughout our history, Americans from all walks of life have stood with clear voices and courageous actions to defend our nation, our peoples, and the values we hold dear.

Now, on the brink of a US war on Iraq, we stand in defense once again.

It was President John F. Kennedy who said: "The United States, as the world knows, will never start a war." American values do not admit of any plan to start a war where one can be avoided, or to knowingly provoke war. Alongside the Bill of Rights and our commitment to freedom, these values help form the bedrock of our national consciousness and our democracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: kendall
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 08:05 AM

Seems like we started the revolution by shooting British soldiers. We also started all the Indian wars to grab their territory. Then, there was the Spanish American War; how else could we become a world power unless we took all those bases from a weak country? We didn't start WW2, but, we sure as hell forced the Japanese into a corner and made THEM start it!

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: harvey andrews
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 02:21 PM

Actually Kendall, it had been going on in Europe for some years before the Pacific part of it got started.

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: DougR
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 04:25 PM

Animaterra: I doubt that President Kennedy ever dreamed that terrorists would fly two airplanes into the twin towers in NYC. Were he president today, I believe he would be doing exactly the same thing GWB is. He did not hesitate to act swiftly and decisevly when the U. S. was faced with the Cuban missle crisis.

I assume you are one of those who feels we would never be justified in a preemptive military strike until the enemy has struck the first blow. Well, the enemy did that on September 11, 2001. True, as far as we know, Iraq had nothing to do with that action, but on the other hand it might have. Time will tell.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 04:55 PM

Hi DougR, nice to see you survived the Christmas rush! ;^)...

Uhhhh, just for the record there Dougie, Would you mind telling us who the 'enemy' is? Don't beat around the Bush,... OK? ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 05:13 PM

Kendall,
There also a theory that Lincoln provoked the American Civil War. He desperately wanted it to "unite" the nation.   "Armaments" were brought into Fort Sumpter and this was interpreted as an act of war by the South. They were medical supplies. Lincoln knew what the response would be. There are questions about the start of the Korean War and the Vietnam war as well. We may never know the real truths.

Doug,
We know that the men who brought down the towers were from Egypt, not Iraq. A first-strike based on flimsy evidence could never give our country moral status throughout the rest of the word. If time will tell, then it makes good sense to take the time to find out the information we need before going headlong into a futile enterprise.
The Cuban Missile Crisis involved a blockade, not a first-strike preemption. Hussein is an obnoxious dictator but he can be contained by the international community. Censures and sanctions have already made a difference in Iraq. It's evident that he doesn't have the power that he once had. If we go in there now, we may give him credibility in the rest of the Muslim world as a martyr. There is a danger of this occuring with bin Laden as well.

Frank

There is a kind of romanticism by the

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: Cluin
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 05:22 PM

Kill `em all and let God sort `em out, eh Doug? Now where have we heard that before?....

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 05:56 PM

When the USA starts the next war at least it will be by an unelected president.

Maybe , just maybe...papa Bush and his entire cadre of the first Gulf War have an agenda that the son will devotedly support no matter what. doncha think?

It is said Hussein laughed for 2 straight days after daddy Bush lost the election. They plan to Noriega his ass or better yet assasinate him this time. I almost wish he could live to see W defeated in the next election. -that is if the election software can be fixed to deliver an "actual and truthful" count.

I made this yesterday
http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/bushiraq.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 06:03 PM

Otmagosh! Now I'm gonna laugh for two straight days! Thanks Donuel, for howels of hysterical laughter... ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: DougR
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 06:41 PM

ttr: Yep, I had a great Christmas. And your wording including "Bush" was funny.

Donuel: Peers to me you get a bit carried away at times like my ole friend, Bobbert.

Frank: actually, I think most of the folks that brought down the towers were from Saudia Arabia. I agree that we should have better reasons than have been forthcoming from the administration before we strike Iraq. I think we will. We haven't hit them yet, you know.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 06:50 PM

Ahhhh, nice poster, Donuel. Yeah, poor ol' Saddam ain't gonna be around but then we may not either. Word on the street is that Junior has been studying Alexander Haig's "Screw-Them-All-And-Call-Off-The-Elections" Plan and he has surrounded himself with a bunch of folks who would declare martial law in a heartbeat. I really don't think democracy, or what's left of it, will survive these guys...

And by the time Dougie figures it out, it's gonna be too late...

But, hey, I signed the letter and would hope that others will do the same.

Resist

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 07:16 PM

FWIW, Animaterra, I signed the letter, too. I think the letter itself is a little naive about Bush et alia, but at least people feel as though they are doing something instead of feeling impotent.

Frank, well-said, thanks.

Bobert, I love ya darlin', but if you keep going around saying all of that, it WILL happen for sure; it' s almost like helping dumbya et alia with their agenda. If they get enough people believing it and saying it, it will only help to bring it about. We have to keep some positive thoughts and words out there, too, ya know? I DO believe democracy will survive.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: kendall
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 07:20 PM

... then there was Manifest Destiny that forced us to steal millions of acres from Mexico...

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: gnu
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 07:34 PM

Iraq ? Saudi ? Syrian? Sudan ? Iran ? How do any of these countries justify their existence with their lack of human rights? They routinely oppress anyone with any differing opinion and even their own, especially women. How can slavery be condoned in the Sudan ? How can.... aw, fuck it.... Georgy boy... let loose... and DO LET God sort them out.

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 07:59 PM

The same way the USA justifies its existence while it exploits and intimidates the whole World, gnu. They're fallible human beings who have not yet attained perfection.

Who will sort America out for the last 200 years of conquest at the expense of others? God?

I've met plenty of Middle Easterners, and they are not necessarily nearly as crazy as you make them out to be. The News Media like to focus on craziness and violence...keep that in mind. Most people are fine when you get to know them and understand them.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 08:26 PM

Kat:

You're absolutely right and I took myself out the woodshed after readin' yer post and gave myself a good whoopin' an' promise to be a better bobert. You'll see! If I can scrape up the $50 I'll even send it to the guy... You don't have to have no more little talks with me, no mam... No more little talks...

LH:

The Bushman and his co-conspirators... ahhh, strike that (Sorry Kat. I had a minor relapse...). Yeah, like I was saying, President Bush and his most able cast of ________________'s have done a real nice job of saying that we Americans should respect folks of Middle Easter origin, but then in roundin' 'em up, detainin' 'em with out lawyers, chareges or nuthin', deportin' 'em fir overdrawin' their checking accounts have definately sent out a message of intolerance, hatred and fear-mongerin'.

Problem is that 99.9% of these folks just want to, in the words of Rodney King, "Get along".

Bobert

(Now can I have my "Good Catboxer Award" back, Kat?)

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: gnu
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 08:36 PM

Well.... since my posts are being deleted, I'll just fuck off. In case this one makes it in... LH... hope you never piss them off... thay kinda go crazy with the stoning and cutting body parts off, ya know... just a goofy bunch a chum's... hehe. And that SLAVERY thing, just a wild bunch a kids, eh ?

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 08:46 PM

Take heart gnu. Your deleted posts, if seditious and not just malicious and graphic, might just save you a visit by the Secret Service. I was vistited by them many times back in the Reagan administration. Saving yourself the hassle is up to you but with the patriot act today you may not be as lucky as I.

Telling the truth will get you in hot water.

Exposing their lies will change your life.

Proving their crimes will kill you.

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: Peg
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 08:55 PM

at least engaging in passionate banter can help us feel not quite so helpless. I tend to think letters or petitions that arrive via email are not useful at all...anyone know of the statistical impact of email protest versus, say, print letters or phone messages?

My coven and I are performing social workings for peace and justice. Damn I hope it helps.

peg

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: gnu
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 09:03 PM

Gee. That last post went in. Let's try this part of one post that didn't make it... LH... do you "understand" female castration ? (Dollars to doughnuts this one don't make it either.)

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: BusbitterfraeScotland
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 09:06 PM

Why is Israel not involved in this war?

the last time they heard a talking Bush, they ended up in the wilderness for 40 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: gnu
Date: 30 Dec 02 - 09:11 PM

Anyway, it's Monday night and, as tradition requires in my religeon, I am going to watch some good old boys beat the crap out of each other over a pigskin. Enough of talking of freeing the opressed peoples of the world. Fuck em if they can't visit the Ashram.

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 12:14 AM

Bobertdarlin'....it's okay to tell it like it is...hell I call him worse than that...it's just we've got to watch the declarative statements of negativie prediction, eh? That's his forte! Ours can counteract it and help turn the tide, ya know? Of course you can have your award back..once you've got it, 'tain't nobody kin take it away.:-)

gnu, ever heard of the US soldiers and what they did to Native Americans' body parts, etc.? No one culture has any kind of exclusivity on inhumane acts of violence, etc.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: gnu
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 06:49 AM

Two wrongs don't make a right. I'm going to make a New Year's resolution for the first time: I will not participate in the defence of, or attack on, foreign policy anymore. People will eventually gain their freedom without my ramblings. Sooo, that's gun control, teasing, politically incorrect phrases, foreign policy... and I get crapped on when I discuss the virtues of the Hran. See you next year.

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: Bobert
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 01:41 PM

Well, danged, gnu! That's mighty righteous of you. I was thinkin' of doing the same thing, my own self but decided rather than give up ranting, like Little Hawk, I'm gonna try to just cut back a little.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 03:40 PM

Doug, you are right about Saudi Arabia. The perpetrators were probably financed by certain interests in that country. Saudi Arabia is far from being a democracy and the climate would be right there for money to be filtered to "terrorist" organizations.

Atta was from Egypt, though.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 04:21 PM

gnu...I won't cr** on ya if you want to extoll the Hran! I could listen to some good *beating* all day and not get tired of it! Seriously!

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 04:43 PM

Gee, I didn't know what I was starting! I'm just gonna slink off and let you all continue your, er, discussion....

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: gnu
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 04:52 PM

I won't contribute, as explained, but that doesn't mean I can't watch... er... listen... er... read. 'Ere's a rattle just for ee Kat... & by the way... 'appy New Year all. Peace and good will to ALL.

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: DougR
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 05:09 PM

And backatcha, Gnu, and all Mudcatters!

Tam: maybe that's why Israel isn't involved! They have a plate full anyway.

Bobert, you old West Virginia scoundrel, you are not about to let up on posting. You can't!

L.H. "haven't reached a level of perfection?" Uh, know somebody who has (and if you say Shatner ...BAROOOOOOM! To the Moon!)?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: Mudlark
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 05:35 PM

Maybe a little brainwashing would help...like locking Bush in a room for 10 hours with a continuous showing of Dr. Strangelove...

Subject: RE: BS: Letter to the President
From: kendall
Date: 31 Dec 02 - 07:25 PM

Tam, that was very funny.