How does that song go again?

Subject: BS: How does that song go again?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 01 Jan 03 - 03:33 PM

I loved that tune... so... after I'd heard it one or twice, I pretty much stayed up all night playing it... or... well, it started as a 'very similar' tune... but through the night it morphed and changed untill... at about three in the morning, I noticed the tune I was 'expertly' playing was unrecognizable, and had no known living descendants...

Has this ever happened to you? ttr

Subject: RE: BS: How does that song go again?
From: MMario
Date: 01 Jan 03 - 03:36 PM

frequently - usually by the time I learn a tune it is a definate "variant" if not unrecognizable

Subject: RE: How does that song go again?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 01 Jan 03 - 08:48 PM

So... what do you do then MMario? Do you shelf the old one like it never existed?, or do you 'revert' to the original? I have a strong personal tendancy to 'move on' to my very own new song, and I'm slowly but surely overcoming it... I guess I used to think I just couldn't ever get it right anyway so "why bother trying". Now that I know I can get it, It's much easier to stick with it till it gells.
It's kinda hard for me to believe that we're the only "lucky ones" who 'go off' though... ttr

Subject: RE: How does that song go again?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 01 Jan 03 - 08:59 PM

yep,

happened to me too- its a way of composing new tunes though.

Subject: RE: How does that song go again?
From: Deckman
Date: 01 Jan 03 - 09:09 PM

Hi Thomas ... I'm glad you posted this thought/question. I have had the same thing happen to me several times. Not often, but when it does happen, it's too powerful for me to ignore. I am a traditionalist, and yet I truly enjoy and appreciate newer composed material. And I value highly, those geniuses that can invent/create that beautiful music that captures me. A case in point: I have been 'driven' by part of a melody I heard from a record probably 20 years ago. The chorus melody is just fine, but the verse melody fell short. And the verses didn't interest me, but the chorus did. So ... what to do? I play it as a guitar piece alone and it's quite pleasing to me and others. And the chorus just sings itself. What to do with the verse, or story line? Damned good question. CHEERS and Merry New Year! Bob(deckman)Nelson

Subject: RE: How does that song go again?
From: Cluin
Date: 02 Jan 03 - 12:52 AM

I think it's pretty inevitable. The more tunes you learn, the more cross-fertilization happens and the more you put your own stamp on it. I tend to find that over time, I will have altered a song maybe by slight increments until it maybe "very" different (lyric changes, melodic change, tempo change, different chord changes suggesting alternate melodies). I don't think it's a bad thing; just the opposite--part of the "folk process" really.

Subject: RE: How does that song go again?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 02 Jan 03 - 01:33 AM

Ya sure ya betcha,... Cluin... I've got no problem changing songs, I am sooooo proficient at it... I'm trying to mend my ways a bit tho. The tunes are awfully nice the way they 'ought' to be, and I'm fixin ta giv'em their due. I think I may be looking for tips on how to 'get with the program', and play more of them right... and rightly so, some might add... ;^)

I don't write songs by morphing standard tunes... seems kinda like shooting sitting ducks... it just isn't right for me somehow... I'm a sportsman at heart, methinks...

But yeh... I play by ear. Ignorance isn't always bliss... alot o the time it's hard work! ;0) ttr

Subject: RE: How does that song go again?
From: Deckman
Date: 02 Jan 03 - 01:41 AM

Hmmmm?

Subject: RE: How does that song go again?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 02 Jan 03 - 01:48 AM

What!... did I say the wrong thing again? Now I'm all concerned, Deckman! wha's up?

Subject: RE: How does that song go again?
From: Chris Amos
Date: 02 Jan 03 - 02:29 AM

Hi,

I once learnt a piece, Neil Gow's Lament on the Death of his Second Wife, from the playing of Tony Hall, the melodeon genius, only, as mentioned above I got the last four bars "wrong".

Not realising this at the time I played it at my local session, other people liked it and took up playing it, So here in south Essex we have a distinct variant in circulation, I don't like to mention this to the others, have you ever tried telling someone from Essex they're wrong.

Chris

Subject: RE: How does that song go again?
From: fogie
Date: 02 Jan 03 - 05:40 AM

Don't let anything fossilize .Make music a living art. Down with artists that don't change what they receive into something different.
(except fogies of course)

Subject: RE: How does that song go again?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 02 Jan 03 - 07:33 AM

Many song archivists will insist that a version of a song is defined not only by title but also by singer and the time/date that it was sung. I try not to change songs which have been written by living singers too much, but even then I tend to modify, rhythm, and delivery to suit my voice and accompaniment. I have even been known to add verses - especially if there is a great chorus that could do with a bit more time for the audience to learn it.

If other people hadn't done the same thing in the past, we wouldn't have such a wonderfully diverse heritage of song and music.

Subject: RE: How does that song go again?
From: MMario
Date: 02 Jan 03 - 08:38 AM

What I do depends on whether I am "performing" (read that as - inflicting my singing upon helpless listeners) alone or with others. Alone I tend to go with what is comfortable for me - with others i TRY to do it "as written" - I'm not always successful.

Subject: RE: How does that song go again?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 03 Jan 03 - 01:56 AM

Which brings me to the Chorus.
When a singer uses artistic licence to sing a chorus in his/her own way, all too often the session is lackluster in joining along. I generally attribute this to the dificulty people have in assimilating melodies that are new to them, and this defeats the purpose of the familiarity of a chorus... which enhances it's singability...Also, it is much harder to sing a song on short notice if it is slightly different. It's just too confusing. I have found that the closer I 'toe the line', the more likely folks are to join in. It's like they can count on me to be consistant, and this is reasuring. ...like it's trying to let the audience to be the performance! ttr