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BS: Who Are You?
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: GUEST,Ely Date: 08 Jan 03 - 09:19 PM Genuine American mongrel. English/Irish/Swiss/German/Welsh/little bit of French/possibly Jewish--and who knows what else, that didn't get written down. My mother looks Native American except she has blue eyes. My brother passed very nicely for Norwegian when we were in Stavanger in 1992. My parents look nothing alike and I look like both of them, so I guess I'm average all around. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 03 - 07:54 PM From Salon.com The education of Little Fraud How did a racist speechwriter for George Wallace turn into a "Cherokee" sage and author of a revered multicultural text? The weird tale of Asa ("Forrest") Carter. - - - - - - - - - - - - By Allen Barra Dec. 20, 2001 | Twenty-three years ago this past June 7, Forrest Carter was laid to rest in the Carter family plot at D'Armanville Cemetery near Anniston, Ala. A short time later, family members yanked out the old headstone and put in a new one inscribed with the words "Asa Earl Carter, Sept. 4 1925-June 7 1979." Lengthy non-music copy-paste article deleted. You are welcome to post your own opinions in non-music discussions at Mudcat. If you wish to refer to published articles, post a summary in your own words, and a link to where it can be found online. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 03 - 07:47 PM This article is from the twice monthly newspaper, News From Indian Country, 1993. As published by Indian Country Communications, Inc. with offices at Rt.2 Box 2900A, Hayward, WI 54843. It also appeared in The Circle, 1530 E. Franklin Ave., Minneapolis, MN 55404 (612) 871-4555. Subscription - $15/yr; $25 2 yrs. Voted BEST NATIVE AMERICAN MONTHLY NEWSPAPER - 1991, 1993 by the Native American Journalists Association. Lengthy non-music copy-paste article deleted. You are welcome to post your own opinions in non-music discussions at Mudcat. If you wish to refer to published articles, post a summary in your own words, and a link to where it can be found online. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: open mike Date: 08 Jan 03 - 07:38 PM i am swedish/danish/german/english and i lived in a tipi for a couple of years hard to hang posters on teh wall, though. it was made of canvas not bison hide. times change. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: Cluin Date: 08 Jan 03 - 05:01 PM ...or a Black Day in July |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: GUEST,Kendall Date: 08 Jan 03 - 05:00 PM I was wondering the same thing, Alice. Pancho Villa didn't get very far from the Tx MX border, did he? Personally, I'm half Irish and half Scot. Half of me wants to get drunk, but, the other half doesn't want to pay for it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: SINSULL Date: 08 Jan 03 - 04:54 PM Somewhere way back on my mother's side of the family is a woman named Lightfoot. Mom always claimed that we were part American Indian. Maybe I should check it out. There could be a Casino somewhere with my name on it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: GUEST,arnie Date: 08 Jan 03 - 04:50 PM Interesting thread. I used to work at an airport here in the UK and noticed that Americans often qualify the nationality as American-African or American-Hispanic etc...Not many were content with just plain American. Still, I would describe myself as Yorkshireman first and British second - and come to that I'm a bit suspicious of those Yorkies not from the West Riding... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: Don Firth Date: 08 Jan 03 - 03:07 PM Steve, you're an Orc? Well, okay. Maybe we're related. My great-grandfather, Robert Firth came from the Orkney Islands. In the early 1850s he hire on with the Hudson's Bay Company (as did many Orkneymen) and sailed around the Horn to the Pacific Northwest. He moved to San Juan Island and took over the HBC's Bellevue Farm in 1862 when Charles Griffin, its first manager, left. He was there during the Infamous Pig War, which mobilized many troops on both the British and American sides and lasted for about twelve years, but the only actual casualty was the pig (to which, as far as I know, I am not related). If one wishes to have a war, that's probably a pretty good way to do it. Once the San Juan Islands were declared U. S. territory (Kaiser Wilhelm I brokered the treaty), Robert Firth decided to stay, took out American citizenship, raised eight children with his wife, Jessie Grant, who also came from Orkney. By now, I have cousins all over the San Juans. My grandparents on my mother's side, emigrated from Sweden and moved to Norway. Norway, Kansas, that is (five miles south of Scandia, Kansas), where my mother was born—the youngest of ten children. Later, they moved to Payette, Idaho, and then to Kirkland, Washington. I've got cousins all over Kansas, Idaho, and Washington. My sister is trying to trace my mother's family and I'm trying to trace my father's family. Problem I've encountered so far is, apparently half the population of Orkney seems to be named "Firth" and since it's a place name, they're not necessarily related. My sister's problem is that my mother's maiden name is "Peterson." How many Petersons do you figure there might be in Sweden? Between my mother's ancestry and the various peoples who dominated Orkney throughout its history, I'm probably more Norse than anything. For some strange reason, I was born in Los Angeles. I've lived in Seattle most of my life, but actually, I lay claim to being an Earthman. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: *daylia* Date: 08 Jan 03 - 02:59 PM Chip you're not alone. I'm a french/english/swiss/american/and some distant 'eastern-woodlands-first-nations' Canadian mongrel. I got pretty upset the last 2 times they took a census in Canada and there was no place to check off 'Canadian' on the long list posted under the question "What nationality are you?" It's easier to just say 'Canadian' eh? Especially since you could only check off one 'nationality', so anything I'd have chosen would have been untrue. Who am I? I'm a Canadian 'rainbow'! (Sounds better than mongrel) daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: Chip2447 Date: 08 Jan 03 - 02:50 PM english/irish/welsh/scottish/french/norwegian/Dakota/Blackfoot/and yes guest...Cherokee. Mainly though, I am an American of causasion european descent. Chip2447(Hienz 57 muttdog) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: *daylia* Date: 08 Jan 03 - 02:29 PM Then again, maybe you were just 'guesting' .... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: *daylia* Date: 08 Jan 03 - 02:23 PM You've been scanning people's DNA then Guest? What a genius! daylia |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: stevetheORC Date: 08 Jan 03 - 02:03 PM Im An ORC do this count!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 03 - 01:51 PM So why is it that the preponderance of EurAms claiming AmInd ancestry, are Cherokee? I'll tell you, I've heard a lot of interesting theorizing about that fact from my Shinob and Lakota friends, none of it flattering. I'm sorry, but I just ain't buying these "my great grandma" claims, folks. I'm very skeptical about European Americans claiming native ancestry. Very skeptical. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: RangerSteve Date: 08 Jan 03 - 01:40 PM According to undocumented family history, I'm part Mayan on my dad's side, and part Cherokee from my mom. I've seen some old photos from both sides of the family of people who are definately Native American, and I've been told by a lot of people that I have NA features, so it's probably true, but nothing is written down. A good deal of my family who came from Oklahoma and Arkansas never bothered with birth certificates, and I don't know where to start looking for records in Mexico (and I don't speak Spanish). |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: Wolfgang Date: 08 Jan 03 - 01:33 PM Can you remember the times That you have held your head high? And told all your friends of your Indian claim Proud good lady and proud good man, Your great great grandfather from Indian blood sprang And you feel in your heart for these ones (Buffy S-M) Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 03 - 01:21 PM Looks like Mudcat has a preponderance of the Wannabe Tribe... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: Alice Date: 08 Jan 03 - 01:08 PM Misophist, the Nez Perce tribe centered in the river canyons of Idaho. How did your records get in the hands of the Mexicans? Maybe you could get some info from the Nez Perce tribe. www.nezperce.org |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: mack/misophist Date: 08 Jan 03 - 12:34 PM Those who have argued against identifying oneself on the basis of ancestry are correct; BUT. To begin with, it's just plain interesting. And it might help quell racism if more people discovered minorities in their history. My personal reason for interest is a little hard to explain. Let's try a metaphore. An extended family or even one person in an extended family can ba compared to a color, composed of many pigments. I believe it's easier to see and understand that unique color if you can see and understand the pigments that went into it's making. It is also true that all of history, for that matter, all of life is about continuity. You can't construct a time line if all the blanks are left blank. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Jan 03 - 12:34 PM Genetic and cultural inheritance are, of course, interesting in themselves and worthy of discussion. Likewise for religious and national inheritance. All these things play am important part in developing a life. Our diversity is our strength and should be celebrated. We are all One, but the One has millions of different ways of showing itself, and that enriches life. Imagine how pointless it would be if all gardens contained only one species of plant. That is, in a sense, what lunatic movements like the Nazis (or fanatical religious groups) have aimed for throughout history. It's also what a profit-driven system aims for when it converts an entire region or small country to a single cash crop (as was done with sugar cane in Trinidad), thus devastating the land and destroying much of its local culture in the process. Most of the soil in Trinidad is now pretty much exhausted, and the sugar business is greatly in decline, having done much damage while raking in the money. It will take a long time to repair what they did. Kat - I believe you're right...the vehicle is chosen with certain lessons in mind. Wherever there is a need for change or growth, the opportunity is provided, by means of the circumstance chosen. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: Mr Happy Date: 08 Jan 03 - 12:09 PM getting down to the nitty-gritty, all human being members of the same race & ultimately, being all descended from the same origins, are all related to each other, regardless of geographical/climatical evolution. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: GUEST,petr Date: 08 Jan 03 - 11:56 AM when I worked at a school for autistic kids, one of the workers was Metis (mixed 1st nations and french canadian) when he mentioned this to another employee there who was Coast Salish - I was surprised at the response "we dont really consider that to be much of anything". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: katlaughing Date: 08 Jan 03 - 11:49 AM I agree Rustic Rebel. I think we can discuss without it meaning anything racist. I also don't think anyone is trying to define themselves just by the ancestry. I find it fascinating. I also agree with LH in some respects, though I believe our souls can choose the vehicle for the lessons to be learned. My great-great grandmother was said to be Mohawk, which I know encompasses several "tribes." So far I have not been able to document that, but do have a name and my family were in the right area, right on the New York side of the St. Lawrence River, at the time she was said to have married my gggrandfather. Certain First Nations features are quite prominent in my great-granddad, granddad, and dad's faces. My youngest daughter's great-grandmother is on the Dawes Rolls for the Cherokee nation. We don't know if she was full or half, so my daughter is either 1/8 or 1/16th and has the hair to prove it.:-) My heart is more "red" as they say, than anything else, spiritual-wise. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: Amos Date: 08 Jan 03 - 11:47 AM Her name was White Tree, Half Crow and half Cree, But everyone knew her as Nancy! Seems to me that what you have to say now is a helluva lot more important than who you can point to in centuries gone by -- unless your looking for someone to blame your troubles on, which is pretty much an exercise in futility! :>) A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: HuwG Date: 08 Jan 03 - 11:41 AM So, Rustic Rebel, your Grandma was an 'Orse ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 03 - 11:36 AM My parents were in the iron and steel industry. Mum ironed and Dad stole. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: Rustic Rebel Date: 08 Jan 03 - 11:35 AM I don't think talking about one's nationality is something to get all up in arms about. It's a perfectly legitimate question being we all come from somewhere, as do our ancestors. There are a lot of cultural customs out there that have nothing to do with racism or pink inside or, well you know what I mean. I have a lot of Indian friends and I know many that can drink no better or worse than I can(refering to the genetic intolorance comment)So I don't know if that is a myth or what. I would say a myth. My mother's side comes from Germany and Poland, My Father's mother was Norwegian but we don't know who or what my grandfather is, so I have always been curious as to "who I am" on that aspect. Peace, Rustic |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: Kim C Date: 08 Jan 03 - 11:05 AM There's an unsubstantiated, undocumented rumour in our family that my father's great-great-grandmother was Native American. Indeed, the genealogical record doesn't list a last name for her, just "Nancy." A longhunter ancestor on my mother's side married an Indian woman. This is documented in several records. My first European ancestors in America were mostly Dutch and German. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: Auxiris Date: 08 Jan 03 - 11:01 AM In my humble opinion, it would be a good idea if we could all start looking at each other as human beings first, before attaching all kinds of labels like man, woman, old, young, nationality, political beliefs, ethnic and/or cultural origin and so on. Until we can do that, we'll continue to have wars, racism, sexism, ageism and all those other horrors. cheers, Aux |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 08 Jan 03 - 10:48 AM Wel, as for me, I'm Danish/French/English/Scottish. No wonder I'm so confused. My kids have a heavy dose of Italian in there. Sounds like an interesting meal, if nothing else.. Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 03 - 07:37 AM I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: Rapparee Date: 08 Jan 03 - 07:30 AM What about the descendants of all those Irish and Scots who mated with members of the First Nations? Talk about personal problems! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: GUEST Date: 08 Jan 03 - 07:19 AM Genetics play a greater role than one might think, I'm told Native Americans have a genetic intolerance for alcohol, whereas Celts seem to have a genetic affinity. I've been wrong before,mind you but*G* |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: greg stephens Date: 08 Jan 03 - 07:13 AM Well. it's a bit difficult defining yourself in terms of your ancestors. Mine, as far as I can figure out, are half men and half women. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: Rapparee Date: 08 Jan 03 - 07:04 AM My ancestry is German and Dutch, but I feel no inclination to goose-step all over Europe OR to plug up dikes (although I have worked on levees during floods on the Mississippi). Why worry about your ancestry? You can't change it and it's pretty much irrelevant -- we're all pink inside, and if you doubt that, suppuko and look. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: leprechaun Date: 08 Jan 03 - 03:12 AM "Dig deep down. Puppy in the bottom." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: Little Hawk Date: 08 Jan 03 - 01:30 AM Right. Much more important than your genetic inheritance is your SOUL inheritance. In other words, it's the driver that counts, not the car. Going by soul inheritance, there are a whole lot more Native Americans out there right now than most people would ever suspect. That's cos there were millions of them here when the whites arrived, and their souls have not forgotten the land they loved. Many have returned, entering in whichever vehicle was available at the time. If people were more conscious of the soul within, and less conscious of the outer skin, it would go a long way toward ending racism for all time, along with nationalism, and several other destructive "isms" of that sort. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: Amos Date: 08 Jan 03 - 01:08 AM Well, I am all for interesting tales of the times gone by -- but honestly, I'd think twice about associating the question "who are you" with "where's your blood from?". Kinda like believeing that your identity, fate and nature are defined by the model of your truck or sompn. Do you think that have a German Shepherd for a seeing eye dog, instead of a bassett hound, makes you any less in the dark? :>) Naaaahhhhhh. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: Genie Date: 07 Jan 03 - 11:35 PM My mother's great grandmother was full Cherokee, but, sad to say, my mom's side of the family kept the extent of their Native American ancestry downplayed, due to the intense discrimination and persecution that great, great grandmother had experienced, and until I was about 30, I thought I was only 1/32 Cherokee. Little, if any, of the cultural heritage was passed down to my mother as such. And that has been a source of great regret for my mom and her siblings and for us later generations. My mom's older brother's features clearly showed the Native American ancestry, more than his mother did or my mother does. Grandma could have got land, I'm told, but wouldn't apply because she and grandpa were too proud to accept "charity" on any grounds. Genie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: Bert Date: 07 Jan 03 - 11:00 PM ME! Probably none at all in the flesh, but a hell of a lot in the mind. Daughter Rachael and son Chad are almost half, and Rachael looks a beautiful 100%. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: mg Date: 07 Jan 03 - 10:53 PM My great great grandmother on ;my mother's side was from a New York tribe..not known which one. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Who Are You? From: Ebbie Date: 07 Jan 03 - 10:53 PM When I was a kid, I and my brothers pretended to be 'Indian's- in other words,when we played 'Cowboys and Indians', the Indians won. :) Strangely enough, I had several aunts who, as they aged, looked very Native American, but so far, no confirmation, or even gossip. |
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Subject: BS: Who Are You? From: mack/misophist Date: 07 Jan 03 - 10:19 PM All my life I have known Native Americans. By twos and threes, fours and fives; never many at one time. Out of a hundred or so, only four have fit the stereotyppical image. Especially one crazy bastard in Texas who hunted deer with just a knife. Last year I discovered I may be one eighth Nez Percé. It's impossible to be sure because the town where the records were was burned by Pancho Villa's men. It was abandoned, anyway. Probably most Native Americans are now just Americans. To give an example, the great Cherokee leader Sequoiah's father called him Willem Geis. He grew up speaking German, mostly; Cherokee to his mother. A few days ago I found out that five of my friends would qualify as Native by the current standards. And the point of all this is..... How many of you out there can say the same? I suspect the number is fairly high. Yes? |