Origin: The Minstrel Boy (Thomas Moore)

Subject: Name That Composer!
From: Ireland O'Reilly
Date: 06 Jul 98 - 01:50 PM

Can anyone help me? I'm looking for the name of the the composer of the song, "The Minstrel Boy". Well, actually, I'm not looking for it. My friend, the guru, is looking for it, as she's doing an arrangement of it for her portfolio. Many thanks!

Cheers,

Ireland

Subject: RE: Name That Composer!
From: jehill
Date: 06 Jul 98 - 01:54 PM

I thought it was traditional. We used to sing it at school back in the 50's

Subject: RE: Name That Composer!
From: Jon W.
Date: 06 Jul 98 - 06:32 PM

I believe the words were composed by Thomas Moore, the Irish poet, and the tune is traditional. See this web page.

Subject: RE: Name That Composer!
From: Dale Rose
Date: 06 Jul 98 - 06:32 PM

It was written by Thomas Moore (1779-1852). A Yahoo search for minstrel_boy will turn up quite a bit of information on it. No doubt other search engines will do so as well.

Subject: RE: Name That Composer!
From:
Date: 06 Jul 98 - 06:32 PM

The one that pipe bands always play? The ministrel boy to the war has gone . . .

Subject: RE: Name That Composer!
From: Dale Rose
Date: 06 Jul 98 - 06:34 PM

That must be some sort of record. Three responses at the same time!

Subject: RE: Name That Composer!
From: Jon W.
Date: 06 Jul 98 - 06:35 PM

Actually, the link above leads to a page that is apparently a direct (though partial) copy from our own beloved DT. Click here for the DT entry.

Subject: RE: Name That Composer!
From: Ireland O'Reilly
Date: 08 Jul 98 - 12:42 PM

Thanks, everybody!

I'll pass the information along to the Music Guru. I'm sure she'll appreciate it.

You're wonderful peeple, really! :)

Cheers,

Ireland

Subject: RE: Origin: The Minstrel Boy (Thomas Moore)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Dec 14 - 04:07 AM

Here's the Traditional Ballad Index entry on this song:

Minstrel Boy, The

DESCRIPTION: "The minstrel boy to the war is gone, In the ranks of death you'll find him. His father's sword he has girded on And his wild hard slung behind him." The minstrel falls in battle, destroying his harp so that "no chains shall sully thee."
AUTHOR: Words: Thomas Moore
EARLIEST DATE: 1813 ("A Selection of Irish Melodies")
KEYWORDS: soldier harp music death
FOUND IN:
REFERENCES (4 citations):
Silber-FSWB, p. 279, "The Minstrel Boy" (1 text)
Fuld-WFM, p. 369, "The Minstrel-Boy"
DT, MINSTBOY
ADDITIONAL: Kathleen Hoagland, editor, One Thousand Years of Irish Poetry (New York, 1947), p. 375, "The Minstrel Boy" (1 text)
Roud #13867
RECORDINGS:
The Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem, "The Minstrel Boy" (on IRClancyMakem03)
Vernon Stiles, "The Minstrel Boy" (Columbia A-2435, 1917)
BROADSIDES:
Bodleian, Harding B 25(1037), "The Minstrel Boy", T. Birt (London), 1828-1829; also 2806 b.9(243), 2806 c.15(207), Harding B 11(1471), Harding B 16(49c), Firth b.26(434)[some words illegible], Firth b.25(385), Harding B 11(2293), 2806 c.16(197), Firth b.27(457/458) View 1 of 4, Johnson Ballads fol. 26, Harding B 40(2) View 3 of 4[some words cut out], Harding B 19(48), Firth b.26(87)[some words illegible], "The Minstrel Boy"
LOCSheet, sm1879 02687, "The Minstrel Boy", Edw Schuberth (New York), 1879; also sm1882 21694, sm1882 22258, sm1884 25744, sm1885 05300, "The Minstrel Boy" (tune)
LOCSinging, sb30345a, "The Minstrel Boy", H. De Marsan (New York), 1864-1878
CROSS-REFERENCES:
cf. "The Fisherman's Son to the Ice Has Gone" (form)
NOTES: Usually sung, in these days, as an anti-war song, but originally composed as an Irish freedom piece. The music is said to be "The Moreen," though that song is obscure. Songs That Never Grow Old (1909, 1913) credits the music to the popular composer Michael W. Balfe (who wrote the music to "Killarney") -- but doesn't mention Thomas Moore!
This is another of Moore's "big works"; Granger's Index to Poetry cites it from 13 different anthologies. Ironically, I'm not sure it has ever been found strictly in tradition. - RBW
Broadside LOCSinging sb30345a: H. De Marsan dating per Studying Nineteenth-Century Popular Song by Paul Charosh in American Music, Winter 1997, Vol 15.4, Table 1, available at FindArticles site. - BS
Last updated in version 2.6
File: FSWB279A

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Here is the Digital Tradition text for this song. Do any corrections need to be made, or can we call this a "definitive" text?

THE MINSTREL BOY (from DT)
(Thomas Moore (1779-1852))
Air "the Moreen" Ancient Irish Air

The minstrel boy to the war is gone,
In the ranks of death you'll find him;
His father's sword he hath girded on,
And his wild harp slung behind him;

"Land of Song!" cried the warrior bard,
(Should) "Tho' all the world betrays thee,
One sword, at least, thy rights shall guard,
One faithful harp shall praise thee!"

The Minstrel fell! But the foeman's steel
Could not bring that proud soul under;
The harp he lov'd ne'er spoke again,
For he tore its chords asunder;

And said "No chains shall sully thee,
Thou soul of love and brav'ry!
Thy songs were made for the pure and free
They shall never sound in slavery!


ADD LAST VERSE: (American Civil War)

The minstrel boy will return we pray
When we hear the news we all will cheer it
The minstrel boy will return one day
Torn perhaps in body, not in spirit
Then may he play on his harp in peace
In a world such as Heaven has intended
For all the bitterness of man must cease
And every battle must be ended

@war @music
recorded by Clancy Bros on songs of Rebellion
filename[ MINSTBOY
TUNE FILE: MINSTBOY
CLICK TO PLAY
DC
apr97

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Other renditions have "Foeman's chain" - is one more correct than the other?

Subject: RE: Origin: The Minstrel Boy (Thomas Moore)
From: MartinRyan
Date: 03 Dec 14 - 04:32 AM

Mmmmm... I might need to think about the "Notes" above.

I have seen "The Fisherman's Son..." version in a collection, alright. it's about seal-hunting in Canada - though not, IIRC, harp seals!


Regards

Subject: RE: Origin: The Minstrel Boy (Thomas Moore)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Dec 14 - 04:40 AM

Out of interest: Have you noticed how the Act I entracte in Bizet's Carmen begins identically to the "Minstrel Boy" tune, but diverges after a couple of bars?

Google 'Carmen act i entracte youtube' & you will hear what I mean.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: Origin: The Minstrel Boy (Thomas Moore)
From: Willa
Date: 03 Dec 14 - 08:29 AM

The copy I have uses 'foeman's chain'

Subject: RE: Origin: The Minstrel Boy (Thomas Moore)
From: GUEST,Richard Wagner
Date: 01 Nov 21 - 08:09 PM

I was very familiar with the traditional Irish air "Moreen" ("Minstrel Boy" is based on this air) since my school boy days and I was amazed when I heard Entr'acte from Bizet's Carmen for the first time. The two tune are identical in many ways. Did Bizet borrow the melody from "Moreen?" He did borrow some melodies for his masterpiece L'Arlesienne from traditional folk tune "The Three Magis."

Subject: RE: Origin: The Minstrel Boy (Thomas Moore)
From: Lighter
Date: 02 Nov 21 - 07:02 AM

"Usually sung, in these days, as an anti-war song."

How's that possible? The minstrel seems perfectly fine with dying in the cause of the "pure and free" after fighting in the "ranks of death."

Subject: RE: Origin: The Minstrel Boy (Thomas Moore)
From: Lighter
Date: 23 Apr 23 - 10:14 AM

I've ransacked a number of reliable databases for the alleged "American Civil War" stanza of "The Minstrel Boy" in the DT without finding any reference to it before 1997, more than 130 years later.

The DT doesn't say the stanza was added *during* the Civil War, but that hasn't stopped various websites from asserting that it was!

The diction strikes me as post-1918, if not later.

Subject: RE: Origin: The Minstrel Boy (Thomas Moore)
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 24 Apr 23 - 02:38 AM

Take a look at the melody for ' The Dream of Napoleon'. The tune is remarkably similar. C# got it in Ilminster 1905. The singer from memory one Wm. Durkin was himself a seller of street literature. This song was alleged to be the only song that quietened a Barrow Boys outside the 'Penny Gaff' on a night out. I suspect it's chicken and egg for which tune came first.

Subject: RE: Origin: The Minstrel Boy (Thomas Moore)
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Apr 23 - 07:50 AM

An enlightening discussion of the tune:

https://hummingadifferenttune.blogspot.com/2015/08/some-notes-about-tune-of-thomas-moores.html

Subject: RE: Origin: The Minstrel Boy (Thomas Moore)
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 24 Apr 23 - 10:40 AM

Thanks. Older than I thought then. AABA as opposed to ABBA (no not the band) is not typically a 19th-century Irish tune structure, so I should have guessed. It does smack of an Art music imitation etc. but then who actually cares? Interesting to see that the tune has entered into the Roud index. (Roud 13867) with 413 entries, all mainly street literature.

Subject: RE: Origin: The Minstrel Boy (Thomas Moore)
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Apr 23 - 02:56 PM

I confess I'm readier than blogger Kloss to accept that Moore got the essential tune from either O'Neill or Thomson.

It must have been in some formal source, otherwise why identify it by title?