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Lyr Req: Youghal Harbour + Road to Youghal DigiTrad: MORETON BAY Related threads: Lyr Req: Moreton Bay (parody) (19) Req: a couple of songs and a tune! (8) (closed) Question for Australians: Moreton Bay? (6) Lyr Add: Moreton Bay (Collected Version) (2) |
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Subject: G'day Youghal From: Bob Bolton Date: 07 Jul 98 - 03:16 AM G'day all you wonderful experts on Irish songs that so deftly fielded the details - and geography - of Boulavogue. I am after words to 2 related songs; 'Youghal Harbour' and 'The Road to Youghal'. My reasons follow (at great length!) Waiting with bated (well ... ) breath, Bob Bolton I moved this message here from another thread on the same topic. |
Subject: Lyr Add: ROAD TO YOUGHAL and MORETON BAY From: Bob Bolton Date: 08 Jul 98 - 07:14 PM OK, I'll admit my previous thread name was a bit too obscure: - G'day Youghal required Australian Idiom plus Irish Gaelic pronunciation! Anyway, I was inspired by the wonderful experts on Irish songs that so deftly fielded the details - and geography - of Boulavogue. I am after words to 2 related songs; 'Youghal Harbour' and 'The Road to Youghal'. My reasons follow (at great length!) I was set by the Boulavogue thread toward other versions and variants on the same tune ('Youghal Harbour'). Here in Australia we sing a convict song "Moreton Bay". The original poem was by 'Frank the Poet', an Irish convict transported in 1832. Many of Frank's poems went off and became songs (including the ancestor of all those versions of "The Wild Colonial Boy"). In 1952 the folklorist John Manifold put together a "singer's text" from a number of fragments of Frank's sardonically named 'A Convict's Lament for the Death of Captain Logan' and (presumably having some clue to the tune) set it to 'Youghal Harbour', the tune used for 'Boulavogue'. Some years later (` 1960)a complete song was learned from a rural worker in Victoria, Simon MacDonald. He had learned the song from an uncle, many decades before and, indeed, used a variant of the 'Youghal Harbour' tune. This tune is more "jiggy" in nature than the dignified 'Youghal Harbour' of 'Boulavogue' and Manifold's version of 'Moreton Bay'. It reminds me of a song I heard Vin Garbutt sing about 15 years ago - 'The Road to Youghal'. This has a more sprightly pace, suiting its saucy words but the tune is quite like Simon McDonald's. The real trouble, for me, is that careful re-listening to all these tunes has whetted my appetite and I would like to: a) sing 'The Road to Youghal' - but there are 2 or 3 words I can't make out on my tape recording of the concert ... and I don't have the song on any of my Vin Garbutt vinyl. b) learn the old words to 'Youghal Harbour' so that I can compare them with the later songs and study the changes and relationships. I know that 'Youghal Harbour' was described by Mayhew, in his seminal (1850 - 1860) studies of the London poor as the most popular tune used by 'Ballad Chaunters', who sang from the broadsheets that they hawked and I feel it is important to the history and formation of Australian traditions. Waiting with bated (well ... ) breath, Bob Bolton |
Subject: Lyr Add: THE ROAD TO YOUGHAL and MORETON BAY From: Bob Bolton Date: 08 Jul 98 - 07:44 PM G'day again, After I (re-)sent the thread under a less pun strewn title, it occurred to me that I should at least let you see what I have in my hand, especially since none of these traditional songs appear in the database (at least, i can't find them). For the Vin Garbutt song 'Road to Youghal'(?), I have almost all the words and the few I can't make out I have placed in brackets. Regards, Bob Bolton
THE ROAD TO YOUGHAL
As I rode to Youghal, last Sunday morning,
"Ah faith," said I, "but I'm never married,
"Kind sir," said she, "I'll be not returning,
I'll sit beside you, your grief to lighten,
MORETON BAY
One Sunday morning as I went walking,
I've been a prisoner at Port Macquarie,
For three long years I was beastly treated,
Like the Egyptians and ancient Hebrews I will keep this down to only one volume: if anyone is interested I will also post the variant lyrics from Simon MacDonald, but not this time around. (Translation: I need to find the file with the words - not type them from what is left of my memory.) |
Subject: RE: Lyrics Wanted: Youghal Harbour / Road to ~ From: Joe Offer Date: 10 Jul 98 - 03:56 AM From another thread: Thread #57817 Message #911294 Posted By: Malcolm Douglas 16-Mar-03 - 12:45 PM Thread Name: Req: a couple of songs and a tune! Subject: RE: Req: a couple of songs and a tune!
The song is usually called Youghal Harbour, and that isn't its tune, I'm afraid. In fact, Healy printed it as My Sunday Morning Maiden; evidently Vin changed the title, hence the confusion with the Road to Youghal reel. The story varies rather among traditional and broadside versions. I don't have the Healy book, but Colm O Lochlainn (Irish Street Ballads, 1939) prints a set which, though rather different in text (taken from a broadside), has virtually the same tune, albeit in a rhythm different from the Garbutt arrangement. It's associated, in slightly different forms, with a number of other songs, too, such as The Streets of Derry, The Galway Shawl and Boulavogue. Here's the Traditional Ballad Index entry on this song: Youghall HarbourDESCRIPTION: The singer meets a beautiful girl as he walks toward Youghall. He asks a kiss; she refuses, explaining that her former lover has driven her from Youghall. She will have no more to do with men. He says his intentions are honorableAUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1901 (O'Conor); the "Answers to Youghall Harbour" date to before 1825 KEYWORDS: courting beauty rejection FOUND IN: Ireland REFERENCES (3 citations): SHenry H503, p. 273, "Youghall Harbour" (1 text, 1 tune) O'Conor, p. 95, "Yougall Harbor" (1 text) ADDITIONAL: Kathleen Hoagland, editor, One Thousand Years of Irish Poetry (New York, 1947), pp. 198-199, "Youghall Harbour" (1 text, listed as a translation by Samuel Ferguson) Roud #2734 CROSS-REFERENCES: cf. "Answer to Youghal Harbour" cf. "Foot and Mouth Disease" (tune) ALTERNATE TITLES: Youghal Harbour Yougal Harbour NOTES [202 words]: The versions of Youghall Harbour are so varied that I think they should be considered at least two ballads. [Though Roud lumps them. - RBW] Examples of "the other Youghall Harbors": OLochlainn 8 and Bodleian, Harding B 28(20), "Answer to Youghall Harbour," W. Armstrong (Liverpool), 1820-1824; also Harding B 11(2180), 2806 b.9(227), 2806 b.11(205), Harding B 25(2128), Firth b.27(11/12) View 1 of 2 [partly illegible], 2806 c.15(163), 2806 c.15(17), 2806 b.11(204), Harding B 19(3), "Youghal Harbour" ("As I roved out on a summer's morning") in which Nancy/Mary of Cappoquin has the singer's baby ["A darling baby for you I am rearing"] and is deserted by him twice. [This is in the Index as "Answer to Youghal Harbour."] Bodleian, Harding B 25(2126), "Answer to Youghall Harbour," Angus (Newcastle), 1774-1825 in which the singer considers leaving "the fair maid of Caperqueen" at the altar; Bodleian, Harding B 28(20), "Youghall Harbour" ("In Youghall harbour, on a summer's morning"), W. Armstrong (Liverpool), 1820-1824; also Harding B 11(4287), "Youghall Harbour" in which the singer is led to the altar and is sometimes exposed as a rake. This may just be an extension of "Answer to Youghall Harbour." - BS File: HHH503 Youghall Harbour (II)DESCRIPTION: The singer meets a girl like "the Queen of May." He seduces her after going "to a director" when she insists on "performance." But he values "neither Priest nor Deacon nor yet yon fair maid of Capperquin" and gains "the maiden flower of this silly female"AUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: before 1825 (broadside, Bodleian Harding B 28(20)) KEYWORDS: seduction virginity rake FOUND IN: Ireland Roud #2734 RECORDINGS: Robert Cinnamond, "Youghal Harbour" (on IRRCinnamond03) BROADSIDES: Bodleian, Harding B 28(20), "Youghall Harbour" ("In Youghall harbour, on a summer's morning"), W. Armstrong (Liverpool), 1820-1824; also Harding B 11(4287), "Youghall Harbour" NOTES [77 words]: Listening to a traditional version on IRRCinnamond03, which is very close to broadside Bodleian Harding B 28(20) "Youghall Harbour," finally convinced me that this should be yet another "Youghall Hartbour" ballad (linked, as it is, by Roud to two others). This seems a much more likely prequel than "Youghall Harbour(I)" to "Answer to Youghal Harbour"; note that Armstrong printed both "Youghall Harbour (II)" and "Answer to Youghall Harbour" on the same sheet. - BS File: RcYoHa02 Go to the Ballad Search form Go to the Ballad Index Instructions The Ballad Index Copyright 2020 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. |
Subject: RE: Lyrics Wanted: Youghal Harbour / Road to ~ From: Martin Ryan. Date: 11 Jul 98 - 06:39 PM Interesting! I'll have a look. Regards |
Subject: RE: Lyrics Wanted: Youghal Harbour / Road to ~ From: Martin Ryan Date: 11 Jul 98 - 07:10 PM "Astore" in the last verse is fine - its a tranliteration of a Gaelic expression meaning "darling" or thereabouts! There's a version in O'Lochlainn's "Irish Street Ballads", taken, I think, from an old ballad sheet. Its fairly close to what you have above - but Garbutt (or whoever) has removed a few Irish placenames - for clarity of a sort, no doubt!
On the other: nothing in O'Lochlainn helps but you couild try "attend with me and we'll drive to .... etc" Regards |
Subject: RE: Lyrics Wanted: Youghal Harbour / Road to ~ From: Bob Bolton Date: 12 Jul 98 - 07:32 PM G'day Martin, I appreciate the info on Road to Youghal. I was sure I was hearing right on the 'astore' but Gaelic is too many generations back in my family tree (although I believe I have heard the expression - if not understood). The lyrics I posted for 'Moreton Bay' are the standard version sung all over Australia by folk revival singers and I found them in the DT - second time around. I will post the Simon MacDonald version because it is more important historically, being a genuine, collected folk-processed version whereas the one in DT was "reconstructed" by a folklorist (John Manifold) who produced his own 'singer's text' from three fragments and the 'Fran the Poet' text. Regards, Bob Bolton |
Subject: RE: Lyrics Wanted: Youghal Harbour / Road to ~ From: Bob Bolton Date: 12 Jul 98 - 07:35 PM G'day again... That was of course 'FranK the Poet' - not his neglected sister Fran! Regard(les)s, Bob Bolton |
Subject: ADD Version: Road to Youghal From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Apr 20 - 07:34 PM Answer to Youghal HarbourDESCRIPTION: Near Yougal Harbour the singer meets Mary of Cappoquin again. She tells him that she had his baby. He reminds her that her parents had rejected him. He leaves her again "in grief bewailing" to return to his girl "in sweet Rathangan, near to Kildare"AUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: before 1825 (broadside, Bodleian Harding B 28(20)) KEYWORDS: love infidelity rejection separation baby lover FOUND IN: Ireland REFERENCES (1 citation): OLochlainn 8, "Youghal Harbour" (1 text, 1 tune) Roud #2734 BROADSIDES: Bodleian, Harding B 28(20), "Answer to Youghall Harbour," W. Armstrong (Liverpool), 1820-1824; also Harding B 11(2180), 2806 b.9(227), 2806 b.11(205), Harding B 25(2128), Firth b.27(11/12) View 1 of 2 [partly illegible], 2806 c.15(163), 2806 c.15(17), 2806 b.11(204), Harding B 19(3), "Youghal Harbour" ("As I roved out on a summer's morning") CROSS-REFERENCES: cf. "Youghall Harbour" NOTES [34 words]: Yougal, County Cork, is on the Celtic Sea coast. Cappoquin is in County Waterford, about 15 miles north of Yougal. Rathangan is in County Kildare, about 100 miles north-east of Yougal as the crow flies. - BS File: OLoc008 Go to the Ballad Search form Go to the Ballad Index Instructions The Ballad Index Copyright 2020 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Youghal Harbour + Road to Youghal From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Date: 19 Apr 20 - 02:09 AM Joe: “Yawl” it is - like the boat! Regards |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Youghal Harbour + Road to Youghal From: Felipa Date: 24 Jan 22 - 04:59 PM Did the Irish song "Eochoill" precede the English language song? https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=49138#741259 |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Youghal Harbour + Road to Youghal From: Joe Offer Date: 25 Jan 22 - 01:30 AM I really respect Martin Ryan and hate to contradict him, but I tend to think that Youghal is pronounced like the Southern US "y'all". Youghal is a wonderful place, with an amazing town clock and a lighthouse right next to the highway. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Youghal Harbour + Road to Youghal From: clueless don Date: 25 Jan 22 - 06:31 AM This doesn't necessarily mean much, but when I heard the name spoken in the past (Once upon a long time ago, I was an Irish stepdancer), it was pronounced something like "yowl". |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Youghal Harbour + Road to Youghal From: GUEST,Martin Ryan Date: 27 Jan 22 - 10:40 AM Hi Joe! You mean “Yawllll” like “drawwl”? The Irish “Eochaill” is closer to “(y)okel” , of course! Regards |
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