Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?

Subject: Lyr Add: AND THE BAND PLAYED WALTZING MATILDA
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 05:53 PM

What would be your nominee?

WALTZING MATILDA, as done by the Pogues:

When I was a young man I carried my pack
And I lived the free life of a rover
From the Murrays green basin to the dusty outback
I waltzed my Matilda all over
Then in nineteen fifteen my country said son
It's time to stop rambling 'cos there's work to be done
So they gave me a tin hat and they gave me a gun
And they sent me away to the war.

And the band played Waltzing Matilda
As we sailed away from the quay
And amidst all the tears and the shouts and the cheers
We sailed off to Galipoli.

How well I remember that terrible day
How the blood stained the sand and the water
And how in that town that they called Sulva bay
We were butchered like lambs at the slaughter
Johnny Turk he was ready he primed himself well
He chased us with bullets he rained us with shells
And in five minutes flat he'd blown us all to hell
Nearly blew us right back to Australia.

But the band played Waltzing Matilda
As we stopped to bury our slain
We buried ours and the Turks buried theirs
Then we started all over again.

Now those who were left, well we tried to survive
In a mad world of blood death and fire
And for ten weary weeks I kept myself alive
But around me the corpses piled higher
Then a big Turkish shell knocked me arse over tit
And I woke up in my hospital bed
I saw what it had done and I wished I was dead
Never knew there were worse things than dying.

For I'll go no more Waltzing Matilda
All around the green bush far and near
For to hump tent and pegs a man needs both legs
No more Waltzing Matilda for me.

So the collected the cripples the wounded the maimed
And they shipped us back home to Australia
The armless the legless the blind the insane
Those proud wounded heroes of Suvla
And as our ship pulled into Circular Quay
I looked at the place my legs used to be
And thank Christ there was no one there waiting for me
To grieve and to mourn and to pity.

And the band played Waltzing Matilda
As they carried us down the gangway
But nobody cheered they just stood and stared
Then turned all their faces away.

And now every April I sit on my porch
And I watch the parade pass before me
And I watch my old comrades how proudly they march
Renewing old dreams of past glory
And the old men march slowly all bent stiff and sore
The forgotten heroes from a forgotten war
And the young people ask "What are they marching for?"
And I ask myself the same question.

And the band played Waltzing Matilda
And the old men answer to the call
But year after year their numbers get fewer
Some day no one will march there at all.

Waltzing Matilda
Waltzing Matilda
Who'll come a waltzing Matilda with me
And their ghosts may be heard as you pass the Billabong
Who'll come a waltzing Matilda with me.

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Francy
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 06:32 PM

It miight have been recorded by the "Pogues". but it was written by Eric Bogle and sung by him and many others....No Man's Land....Frank of toledo

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Francy
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 06:34 PM

Sorry,,,wrong song.....And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda by Eric Bogle......No Man's Land is another great anti war song by Eric....Frank Of Toledo

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Melani
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 06:35 PM

"No Man's Land" is a different song. The one above is "And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda." Both by Eric Bogle. They're both right up there. I would also include "Mothers, Daughters, Wives" by Judy Small.

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: nutty
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 06:38 PM

Another Eric Bogle classic is "All the Fine Young Men"

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 06:38 PM

Come away, Matilda [Come Away Melinda] was a good 'un ... who was that, Mott the Hoople?

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 06:43 PM

"Come Away Melinda",
was recorded by Judy Collins in the early sixties.
Who wrote it I am not sure. May be Judy? Maybe Shel Silverstein.
Mott The Hopple? Really? I'd have never guessed.

Don

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 06:47 PM

Maybe it was Uriah Heep ...

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,The Hated Guest
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 06:51 PM

Don't have the liner notes...Eric Bogel wrote the Pogues version? I WAS careful to put 'as done by'. Didn't know it was so current. Sorry if I offended. It's an incredible song.

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Ed.
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 06:51 PM

With God on Our Side - Bob Dylan

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 06:52 PM

Oh, yeah ... MeLINDA ...

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,The Hated Guest
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 07:09 PM

Yeah...With God on Our Side, and even Masters of War. Both great songs. But what I like about 'And the Band Played Waltzing Matilda' is the blend of melody with the words. Kind of a pensive lament...haunting melody with devastating words. Just my opinion. I like 'em all.

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Gareth
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 07:13 PM

Mmmm ! If were voting on this suggest When Johnny Comes Marching Home, which must still stand Dr Strangelove notwithstanding.

Gareth

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 07:13 PM

There are so many!

Christmas in the Trenches
The Holy Ground
Arthur McBride [No Man's Land]
A Handful of Earth
Where have all the flowers gone
Ain't gonna study war no more
When Johnny Comes Marching Home
The Press Gang
Etc, etc, etc...

My current fave is "Holy Ground" and I sing it most every day... ttr

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 07:17 PM

Johnny, I hardly Knew Ya. One of the first, one of the best.

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 07:22 PM

the ballad of the green berets.

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 07:25 PM

"Masters of War" would be my 1st choice.

Bobert

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 07:33 PM

YIKES!!! What a blooper! "When Johnny comes marching home" is to be stricken from this thread and thrown out onto the courthouse steps... I meant to say "Johnny I hardly knew ye". Guthrie's "I'd like to know" is powerful... ttr

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 07:50 PM

The most rousing, in my book, is "Get Up, Stand Up" by Brother Bob.

Then there is John Prine's "Sam Stone".

Pete's "Waist Deep in the Big Muddy".

For inspiration, try a visit to the Raging Grannies Without Borders website--it has a bunch of anti-war songs, new and recycled.

Raging Grannies Anti-War Songs

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: maire-aine
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 08:02 PM

Thanks, Guest, for the link to Raging Grannies. I'll look for them.

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 08:05 PM

My pleasure maire-aine. I'm making their cookie recipe for Saturday's demo, only I'm adding chopped cranberries instead of raisins. They are so yummy with a dollop of hot latte for those cold winter marches!

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: SINSULL
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 08:49 PM

Definitely "Masters Of War". "...and I will stand over your grave to be sure that you're dead." Damn! If the mailman sees this I'll be picked up for threatening the president. Does it count that he wasn't elected? Doesn't matter. It's worth it.

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Snuffy
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 08:56 PM

Dancing at Whitsun
D-Day Dodgers

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: sharyn
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 09:12 PM

Insanity Street by Lillie Palmer is very good:

"And we talk of the coming of peace,
Of a time when hostilities cease,
But we make and we store all the weapons of war
'Cause we live on Insanity Street."

And also Suzanne Vega's "The Queen and the Soldier"

And, for traditional songs, "The Weary Cutters."

And there's a brilliant song called "The King's Shilling" that Jean Redpath sings

And for smaller-scale war, "There Were Roses."

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Strafgod
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 09:30 PM

Come Away Melinda was written by Malvina Reynolds. Kind of anti-apocalyptic rather than anti-war in the pre-nuclear sense...
Where have all the Flowers Gone?
The Minstrel Boy was probably the first song I came across back in the 1950's that struck me as being anti-war. I remember finding it in my grandmother's piano bench, picking out the melody and reading the lyrics and getting quite upset.

Jimmy Newman by Tom Paxton.
But The Band Played Waltzing Matilda is a stunner. My first time hearing it was Joan Baez's version.

Strafgod <-- apologizes if he's broken any posting rules or etiquette, having just bounced in from a posting on rec.music.folk and, intrigued by the thread, just went ahead and posted without the requisite lurking, reading the faq, and paying proper attention to the rest of this great site!

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 09:41 PM

Re: The Ballad of the Green Berets.

Fighting Soldiers from on high.
Fearless Men, who jump and die (!!!)

Damn, I wish those guys had used parachutes!

Rick

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 09:48 PM

Your Flag Decal won't get you into Heaven Anymore

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 09:48 PM

"Tenting Tonight"
"I Didn't Raise My Boy to be a Soldier"
"Enola Gay"..by Bruce Phillips

,,,but Erik Bogle made it all so real..

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Cluin
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 09:50 PM

"WAR!
Huh!
What is it good for?
Absolutely nuthin', say it again..."

Just kidding.

I like Dougie MacLean's song "War".

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: mg
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 09:52 PM

hanging on the old barbed wire mg

Subject: Lyr Add: WAR (Dougie MacLean)
From: Cluin
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 10:02 PM

(obviously about the Gulf War)

War
(Dougie MacLean, 1991)

Our voice made silent
Our hands made still
But deep and violent wait the ones who wait to kill

The desert's burning
Their reasons pale
For there's no returning with some golden holy grail

   What have they done?
   What have they done?
   The blood will run to everyone
   Oh, what have they done?

Is it for freedom,
Or is it for truth,
That fathers fall and all those young men trade their youth?

Or are they moved
By deception's hand,
That rank and reckless scatters death across the sand?

   (chorus)

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: The Pooka
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 11:30 PM

"Willie McBride" should be on the list.

And, I'll throw in "A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall".

I've always liked this lyric from a version of "Mrs. McGrath" -

Now foreign wars they do proclaim
Between Don John and the King of Spain
I'd rather have me Teddy as he used to be
Than the Queen of France and her whole Navy
Musha ring dum da, ring a dum a da....

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,hal
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 11:51 PM

let's not forget "morning dew" especially as performed by those gurus of peace, love and happiness, the grateful dead

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: fox4zero
Date: 13 Feb 03 - 11:57 PM

Ira Hayes as sung by Johnny Cash

Larry

Subject: Lyr Add: JOHN BROWN (Bob Dylan)
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 12:07 AM

The Band Played Waltzing Matilda and Masters of War are two of my favourites. Kind of like this one too.

John Brown

Bob Dylan

John Brown went off to war to fight on a foreign shore.
His mama sure was proud of him!
He stood straight and tall in his uniform and all.
His mama's face broke out all in a grin.

"Oh son, you look so fine, I'm glad you're a son of mine,
You make me proud to know you hold a gun.
Do what the captain says, lots of medals you will get,
And we'll put them on the wall when you come home."

As that old train pulled out, John's ma began to shout,
Tellin' ev'ryone in the neighborhood:
"That's my son that's about to go, he's a soldier now, you know."
She made well sure her neighbors understood.

She got a letter once in a while and her face broke into a smile
As she showed them to the people from next door.
And she bragged about her son with his uniform and gun,
And these things you called a good old-fashioned war.

Oh! Good old-fashioned war!

Then the letters ceased to come, for a long time they did not come.
They ceased to come for about ten months or more.
Then a letter finally came saying, "Go down and meet the train.
Your son's a-coming home from the war."

She smiled and went right down, she looked everywhere around
But she could not see her soldier son in sight.
But as all the people passed, she saw her son at last,
When she did she could hardly believe her eyes.

Oh his face was all shot up and his hand was all blown off
And he wore a metal brace around his waist.
He whispered kind of slow, in a voice she did not know,
While she couldn't even recognize his face!

Oh! Lord! Not even recognize his face.

"Oh tell me, my darling son, pray tell me what they done.
How is it you come to be this way?"
He tried his best to talk but his mouth could hardly move
And the mother had to turn her face away.

"Don't you remember, Ma, when I went off to war
You thought it was the best thing I could do?
I was on the battleground, you were home . . . acting proud.
You wasn't there standing in my shoes."

"Oh, and I thought when I was there, God, what am I doing here?
I'm a-tryin' to kill somebody or die tryin'.
But the thing that scared me most was when my enemy came close
And I saw that his face looked just like mine."

Oh! Lord! Just like mine!

"And I couldn't help but think, through the thunder rolling and stink,
That I was just a puppet in a play.
And through the roar and smoke, this string is finally broke,
And a cannon ball blew my eyes away."

As he turned away to walk, his Ma was still in shock
At seein' the metal brace that helped him stand.
But as he turned to go, he called his mother close
And he dropped his medals down into her hand.



Copyright © 1963; renewed 1991 Special Rider Music

Subject: Lyr Add: THE YEAR OF THE DRUM (Wendy Joseph)
From:
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 01:43 AM

A few really great songs been mentioned.

Not offering this as the best but it's an interesting one.

The town of Mannim(sp?) reputedly had the highest percentage deaths of any town anywhere which sent men to WW1.

I have't been able to find an author. I believe Martin Wyndham Reed sings it


The Year Of The Drum

Now my name is Jack Gresham, I was brought up in Mannim
That river boat town I loved well
I married Meg Davis we had us two children
One day our family bliss turned to hell
'Twas in 1915 and the year of the drum
The guns and the government called me to come
Past Mannim I look at the tall shining gums
I'm drifting away down the Murray

Now my name is Meg Davis and I work at Shearers
With saddles and waggons and paint
And the men are all fighting, the war it is raging
The women toil here making fuel for the flames
For it's 1916 and the men are all gone
They're fighting in Europe so we carry on
We're keeping the candles lit bright here at home
To light their way back up the Murray

Now my name is Mary and I am an orphan
My father was killed in the war
My ma was Meg Davis, an upstanding lady
She drowned in the Murray the year I turned four
'Twas in 1918 that the telegram came
The death of a soldier it's news did proclaim
My ma lost her footing to the tears and the rain
She slipped on the banks of the Murray

Now my name is Billy and I am a soldier
I just got my orders today
My wife's name is Mary, she's fair as a sunset
I hate to be leaving her lonely this way
But the year's forty two, and the year of the drum
The guns and the government called me to come
Past Mannim I look at the tall shining gums
I'm drifting away down the Murray

But the year doesn't matter, there's always the drum
The guns and the government call men to come
The town still grow strong in her tall shining sons
While her daughter's light lamps by the Murray

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: open mike
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 02:08 AM

Christmas in the Trenches-John Mc Cutcheon
Singing for our Lives-Holly Near
Great Peace March-Holly Near
There were Roses-Tommy Sands
We Shall Not Be Moved --by???
Ain't Gonna Study War No More (Down by the Riverside)
and on Tom Paxton's latest album:
Links in the Chain--by Kate Wolf
Where Have All the Flowers Gone? Pete Seeger
Dona Nobis Pacem
Vine and Fig Tree
And I hope to sing all of these at the rally saturday!

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Stewie
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 02:15 AM

I agree that 'Johnny, I Hardly Knew Ya' would be hard to beat. Of the more recent songs, Pat Sky's Jimmy Clay is probably my favourite, just ahead of Cohen's 'Story of Isaac'.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Lanfranc
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 04:14 AM

I would endorse virtually all of the above, and add:

"Child of Hiroshima" by Nazim Hikmet
"There but for Fortune" by Phil Ochs

plus, on the lighter side:

"The Willing Conscript" by Tom Paxton
"Draft Dodger Rag" by Phil Ochs
"I don't want to join the army" Anon

Alan

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Ringer
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 04:53 AM

Don't want to be too picky, but isn't Masters of War more of an anti-war-profiteering song than an anti-war song?

Subject: Lyr Add: JIMMY CLAY (Patrick Sky)
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 04:55 AM

Lots of worthy nominees......Not all come at it from the same angle of course so Masters of War to me is on par with, but in a different vein than The Band Played Waltzing Matilda. Both make my Top Five. Christmas in the Trenches makes the list as well and coming out of left field I like Feel Like I'm Fixin' to Die Rag. Topping the list for me, as already mentioned by Stewie is Pat Sky's Jimmy Clay. If you didn't click the link, here are the words:

JIMMY CLAY
(Patrick Sky)(c) Rabelaisian Music, Inc.

When you walk down the street, who will follow you?
Six o'clock, its getting late.
The moon it is rising as the sticky dew
Molds on the ground by the gate.
With your rifle on your shoulder as you walk along
Listening to your boot-heels hit the sod
Smoking your cigar as you hum a song
Thinking of your mother, and your God

Ah, but you're alone, Jimmy Clay
As you smoke your cigar and earn your pay.
And fifteen thousand soldiers are marching by your side
Still you're alone, Jimmy Clay.

And remember New York town, good old New York town?
The friends, the drinks, the cops and all
And the whores who took your money when you couldn't stand
And all the roaring nights you can't recall?
And remember Alice Fay, good old Alice Fay?
She'd been through life at least ten times around
And when she said she loved you, well she meant it, boy
Remember the night you nearly drowned?

Ah, but you're alone, Jimmy Clay
As you smoke your cigar and think of yesterday
Well, yesterday don't matter when its gone away
Where did it go, Jimmy Clay?

So as you lie there in the mud, who will talk to you?
Nobody, Jimmy Clay
For when you're gone mankind follows after you
Doesn't it, Jimmy Clay?
And your face is growing moldy where they kissed your cheek
And said "Please die for us, Jimmy Clay"
And so you died a soldier and a hero's death
Congratulations, Jimmy Clay.

Now you're alone, Jimmy Clay
You can smoke your cigar, and earn your pay
And somewhere in the distance you can hear the fiddle play
But not one note will change, Jimmy Clay

Spaw

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Bullfrog Jones
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 07:21 AM

All of the above plus Elvis Costello's 'Shipbuilding' about the futility of the Falklands War, especially as sung by Robert Wyatt.

BJ

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 07:28 AM

"There But for Fortune" is a really beautiful song I haven't thought of in a long time. Thanks for the reminder!

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Jim Colbert
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 08:13 AM

Reunion Hill by Richard Shindell. Arguably, it is not an anti-war song...just a song about a war widow. (Joan Baez claims it is her favorite anti war song!)

Especially the newer, slow way he does it live...

jim

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Cluin
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 08:50 AM

Gordon Lightfoot's "The Patriot's Dream"

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: GUEST,Puffenkinty
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 10:07 AM

ALL QUIET ALONG THE POTOMAC TONIGHT

1st verse:
All quiet along the Potomac tonight
Except here and there a stray picket
Is shot as he walks on his beat to and fro
By a rifleman hid in the thicket;
'Tis nothing, a private or two now and then,
'Twil not count in the news of the battle,
Not an officer lost, only one of the men
Moaning out all alone the death rattle;
All quiet along the Potomac tonight.

I think this is pretty accurate. Those in high ranks
declare war, and the poor "grunt" pays the price.

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 10:20 AM

Add more votes to Bogle's pair (No Man's Land and The Band Played Waltzing Matilda). And the Prines that have been mentioned as well. I never saw Draft Dodger Rag as an anti-war song. It's from Ochs's superpatriot stage and I've never been convinced he had his tongue in his cheek. I think he really was poking at draft dodgers (love to be wrong of course). Fixin' To Die Rag is pretty good too.

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: mg
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 11:47 AM

Year of the drum is an awesome song...and I usually don't believe in tampering with someone else's song but I did anyway because it seemed another generation was calling....

His name was Joseph and I am his father I went to the big one and came out all right
And the last thing I thought of when I was in combat was someday I'd send my own boy off to fight
And then I remember the birth of my son and oh how I prayed he would not hear the gun
But his number was called and in 71 they sent his remains to the Murray...

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Frankham
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 12:07 PM

Come Away Matilda was written by Fred Hellerman (of the Weavers)
and Fran Minkoff. It's on Weavers recordings.

I think a song that should be included is Last Night I Had The Strangest Dream by Ed McCurdy.

Frank

Subject: RE: Review: Greatest Anti-War Song Ever?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 12:15 PM

Another humble submission...