BS: Not Clinton, FDR

Subject: BS: Not Clinton, FDR
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 02:50 PM

If we are going to debate fantasy questions, why not vote for the past president who would be best suited to current crises. Carol and I visited the FDR memorial yesterday. He was elected for four terms. They made two a legal limit after him. Many of his quotes are engraved on the walls of the memorial, some are extremely relevant to today.

Lets not talk about petty personal transgressions. Lets talk about these ideals.

FDR Memorial

Subject: RE: BS: Not Clinton, FDR
From: TIA
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 03:59 PM

Was running in DC shortly after the memorial opened...didn't know it was there, ran in by accident, and didn't emerge until I'd read every last damn word in it. At least so far, our troubles today pale in comparison. Helluva a person.

Subject: RE: BS: Not Clinton, FDR
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 04:14 PM

There was a real President. Will we ever see his like again?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Not Clinton, FDR
From: Deda
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 04:16 PM

I've also seen it, and I agree, it's very moving and he was a helluva person. OTOH, he wasn't subjected to the kind of scrutiny that Clinton was. FDR had a long-time mistress, and there are stories about Eleanor having had a lesbian lover. A Starr report on FDR's white house would have been just as much of a horror as the Clinton one.

IMHO the worst legacy of FDR is that we can't re-elect Clinton.

Subject: RE: BS: Not Clinton, FDR
From: GUEST, Ernest C
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 04:31 PM

FDR was a leader, and certainly above average.   Clinton is a couple of inches above dog puke. Truman, Ford, and Carter were all decent human beings, trying to do the right thing.   I believe I would settle for that about now.

Subject: RE: BS: Not Clinton, FDR
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 04:41 PM

A politician thinks about the next election. A statesman thinks about future generations. With a possible exception (thinking of Jimmie Carter), FDR is the last statesman this country has had.

(I don't care what he may or may not have done in his spare time. It's irrelevant.)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Not Clinton, FDR
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 04:46 PM

We might keep in mind that Franklin Roosevelt as well as being admired and revered and emulated by many people, was also by others the most hated and feared and despised and denigrated man in America. The American electorate - including those who don't vote!- is a many-headed beast.

I remember my own parents darkly insinuating that the President's crippling was not due to polio at all but some unnamed despicable disease...

Subject: RE: BS: Not Clinton, FDR
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 05:11 PM

This is one of my favorite quotes from the memorial:

"They who seek to establish systems of government based on the regimentation of all human beings by a handful of individual rulers... call this a new order. It is not new and it is not order."

This quote seems amost chilling in its applicability to these times, only with some of the roles being on the other foot, as it were.

I heard on the news today that some Republicans in the US Congress are agitating for the US to adopt first strike nuclear attacks on other countries as an accepted practice (ostensibly countries that are suspected of having WMOs). A "handful of individual rulers" indeed.

Seems to me, the more people try to control things, the more out of control things get.

Subject: RE: BS: Not Clinton, FDR
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 05:18 PM

Not to denigrate your parents, Ebbie, but that's absurd. It was obviously polio (I know. I had it too). There were a lot of people around who thought FDR was the devil incarnate because he was deeply concerned about the condition of the people. He was elected at the height of the Depression, and he established a lot of programs that put people to work and generally alleviated the effects of the Depression. Some people thought that was rampant Socialism. But substantial majorities kept re-electing him. You see, they liked the fact that he did things for people, not to them. Very unusual in the world of politics.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Not Clinton, FDR
From: Tiger
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 05:20 PM

Perjury, obstruction of justice and abuse of office are not petty transgressions.

Subject: RE: BS: Not Clinton, FDR
From: GUEST,Benjamin at College
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 05:27 PM

I don't believe FDR would handle things any better! If we look at his track record, he only interned an entire race without any evidence on any of them. I recomend you read the book Personal Justice Denied. It's the governments own report 40 years later about the concentration camps in America (it wasn't only the Japanese that got interned).

Subject: RE: BS: Not Clinton, FDR
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 05:49 PM

Oh, Don- Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I agree with you entirely. I was just illustrating how some people felt at the time. Given their background, my parents never voted a day in their lives, to my knowledge. (And I cannot even imagine what kind of sinful disease they had in mind!)

Subject: RE: BS: Not Clinton, FDR
From: DougR
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 06:59 PM

Sure Don! You've got one now! You just don't recognize it.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Not Clinton, FDR
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 07:07 PM

How's it go, DougR? "I knew FDR, I knew what FDR stood for, FDR had foresight, intelligence and a great understanding of what could be done for good, not unmeasureable harm- Mr. Bush, you are no FDR."

Subject: RE: BS: Not Clinton, FDR
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Feb 03 - 07:45 PM

Well, be it the times or the man, FDR did absolutely anger the ruling class with his social programs, Social Security being the *biggie*. To this very day you can find small pockets of old rich people who are still opening bitter about that program specifically. Danged socialism, is what it is.

Compared to the current guy FDR was a visionary. He gave the nation hope when it needed it. He turned a *disability* into *opportunity* as he was a role model for the working man. He brought back optimism. You can see it in the art, architecture, furniture and music of his day. It was optimistic. It was that fearlessness that frames the man.

With that said, I agree that under the microscope of todays meddling tabloid public, he would have not been given the opportunity to shine.

Having been born after he died I can think of only two honorable men who have become president. Gerald Ford, not the brightest bulb in the shop and my favorite president, Jimmie Carter, who was just *too honorable* to keep the job. Did I agree with both these men. No. But at least ya' didn't have to worry about them *lieing* to you like Clinton did to a certain extent and Bush does daily, loudly and often.

Bobert