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Origins: The Horn of the Hunter

Mr Happy 16 Feb 03 - 02:20 PM
DMcG 16 Feb 03 - 02:53 PM
DMcG 16 Feb 03 - 02:57 PM
Malcolm Douglas 16 Feb 03 - 03:11 PM
Santa 16 Feb 03 - 04:24 PM
Herga Kitty 16 Feb 03 - 07:06 PM
masato sakurai 16 Feb 03 - 07:14 PM
GUEST,Richard in Penrith 18 Feb 03 - 06:29 PM
M'Grath of Altcar 19 Feb 03 - 07:47 AM
George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca 05 Mar 03 - 04:57 AM
Mr Happy 05 Mar 03 - 05:47 AM
GUEST,JohnB 05 Mar 03 - 12:49 PM
GUEST,Robin Turner 07 Nov 07 - 07:59 PM
Barry Finn 08 Apr 09 - 02:56 AM
Marje 08 Apr 09 - 03:17 AM
Barry Finn 08 Apr 09 - 02:42 PM
Ross Campbell 08 Apr 09 - 04:56 PM
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Subject: Origins: The Horn of the Hunter
From: Mr Happy
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 02:20 PM

i'm after who wrote 'The Horn of the Hunter', anyone know?


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Horn of the Hunter
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 02:53 PM

This site seems to imply it was Alan Bell.


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Horn of the Hunter
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 02:57 PM

... but the sleeve notes say:

Also known as Old John Peel this is one of the most popular songs amongst the Cumberland huntsmen and was probably written before the the better known song about John Peel. This is a collation of two versions collected by Geoff Woods from Jim Hewittson of Egremont and Miley Wilson of Lamplaugh.

I don't know what, if anything, Alan Bell had to do with it!


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Horn of the Hunter
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 03:11 PM

According to the Roud index, it appeared in print in 1915, in T. McMechan's D'Ye Ken John Peel: The Song, its Author, and His Hero. That's the earliest reference at the moment, but the song was posted more than once in the huge John Peel thread; there may be useful information there, but I wouldn't count on it.


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Horn of the Hunter
From: Santa
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 04:24 PM

Alan Bell certainly used to sing it, with the Taverners in the 1970s Blackpool Folk Club. Presumably the Tavs recorded it. I don't recall him claiming then to have written it.


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Horn of the Hunter
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 07:06 PM

I asked Tim and Maddy where the song came from when I heard them sing it at Cecil Sharp House in the late 1960s - Maddy gave me Geoff Woods' address, and he sent me a (reel to reel) tape of some of his field recordings of this and "Tally Ho" being sung in pub sessions.

It's far after ten my good children
You know it is fast getting late
So we'll wait for another cold evening
And I'll tell you of Reynard's sad fate.


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Horn of the Hunter
From: masato sakurai
Date: 16 Feb 03 - 07:14 PM

The previous thread Malcolm refers to is:

Do ye ken John Peel?.


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Horn of the Hunter
From: GUEST,Richard in Penrith
Date: 18 Feb 03 - 06:29 PM

According to my copy of "Songs of the Fell Packs" (long out of print)
The Horn of the Hunter or John Peel's Echo was was written by Jackson Gillbanks of Whitefield, presumably as a lament on Peel's death in 1854. Gillbanks would have been Peel's close neighbour, Peel living most of his life at Ruthwaite, south of Ireby in the Northern Fells.
The Gillbanks Family residence, Whitefield (House) is mentioned in the song, but is now the Overwater Hall Hotel. The small Lake (tarn)
Overwater near which it stands is the source of the River Ellen which figures prominently in the chorus.
      Although not native Cumbrians my wife & I have a strong affinity with these places. In 1977 we were married in Caldbeck church, where John Peel himself was married-officially- in 1797 (having previously eloped to Gretna Green) & in which churchyard he is buried. We had our wedding reception at Overwater Hall and went on to a wedding ceilidh at Ireby Globe Hall. Last year we celebrated 25 years with another ceilidh at Caldbeck Village Hall.
      The hunting song tradition still continues in these parts. Two
hunt sing-songs were advertised in this week's Cumberland & Westmorland Herald, though ironically, the same legislators aiming to ban fox hunting might also succeed in stopping people singing about it if this P.E.L nonsense enters the statute books.


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Horn of the Hunter
From: M'Grath of Altcar
Date: 19 Feb 03 - 07:47 AM

The little yellow book - "Songs of the Fell Packs" is not out of print. It can be obtained from the Melbreak.


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Horn of the Hunter
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 04:57 AM

The tune (which isn't in the Spring 2002 DT) can be found in this message Tune Add: Horn of the Hunter


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Horn of the Hunter
From: Mr Happy
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 05:47 AM

cheers all for help so far.


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Horn of the Hunter
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 12:49 PM

M'Grath, how would I go about getting a copy of the book? I am in Canada but I still have an English Bank account and can write cheques.
There are a couple of different Melbreaks come up when I do a search.
Any info appreciated, Thanks, JohnB


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Horn of the Hunter
From: GUEST,Robin Turner
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 07:59 PM

As a lad in the late 1940s and early 50s, I was taken to many concerts of the Ullswater Pack, in pubs auch as the White Lion Patterdale, and the Travellers rest at Glenridding. My Father used to sing this song (The Horn of the Hunter's now Silent..), and he collected the Lyrics of many of these songs in a small notebook, which I still have. I have sung the version of the song my Father knew as 'Jackson Gillbanks Song' many times subsequently. Should anyone be interested in the Lyrics collected by my Father, I would be pleased to share them. Many of the tunes I still recall, and I particularly recall the enthusiastic and knowledgeable audience participation at these concerts. After each singer, the MC for thte evening would lead everybody in a short chorus of appreciation of the singer, which went:
"Its a Jolly good song, and its jolly well sung, Jolly good company every-one, And he who can beat it is welcome to try, But always remember the Singer is Dry!" followed by a common roar "Sup, yer Bloodhounds, Sup!" For more info contact Robin Turner, Eiridh na Greine, Ardfern, Argyll PA31 8QN


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Horn of the Hunter
From: Barry Finn
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 02:56 AM

In the last line of the chorus;

"Clear sound o'er the dark Caldews roar"

What or where is/are the Caldews?

And was this written by
"Jackson Gillbanks of Whitefield, presumably as a lament on Peel's death in 1854."
As stated above?

Thanks

Barry


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Horn of the Hunter
From: Marje
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 03:17 AM

The Caldew is a river in Cumbria, so it's singular - "the dark Caldew's roar".

Marje


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Horn of the Hunter
From: Barry Finn
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 02:42 PM

Thanks Marje

Barry


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Subject: RE: Origins: The Horn of the Hunter
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 08 Apr 09 - 04:56 PM

Alan Bell's "Horn of the Hunter" is his own lyrics, set to the tune of the older song. Alan's song is a lament for the lost valley and community of Mardale, drowned in the 1930s to form Haweswater Reservoir. In dry summers, the remains of the village can still appear.

Ross


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