Subject: Rainbow over the hill From: Date: 15 Jul 98 - 04:28 PM |
Subject: RE: White, orange and green From: Mick Lowe Date: 15 Jul 98 - 07:10 PM I'm I being pyschie here or is this a request about an Irish song/tune? |
Subject: Lyr Add: WHITE, ORANGE AND GREEN (from Spailpin) From: belter Date: 19 Jul 98 - 10:00 PM I've transcribed this from an alubm called Whiskey In The Jar From Ireland. put out by Delta Music Inc. 1989 I'm missing the cover, so there's no telling what liner notes I may be missing out on. The album is a compolation of two groups, SPAILPIN and THE DUBLIN RAMBLERS. Wight, Orange and Green performed by Spailpin. WHITE, ORANGE AND GREEN
In the bold ?Gaughty? mountains so far far away
Now a young English soldier was passing that way
You can't have my banner the young girl replied
Well the young English soldier turned white as the snow
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Subject: RE: White, orange and green From: Brack& Date: 20 Jul 98 - 04:28 AM Belter, that might be Galtee mountains. What's the tune though? Mick |
Subject: RE: White, orange and green From: belter Date: 20 Jul 98 - 05:49 PM I don't have any music for it, sorry. The only hint I have is that in parentheses next to the title it says (Tabhair dom do La'mh) Could that be a galic title to the air, or is it just white orange an green in galic? I'm always wondering about that one word. Thanks for the info. |
Subject: Tune Add: TABHAIR DOM DO LAMH / GIVE ME YOUR HAND From: alison Date: 21 Jul 98 - 12:53 AM Hi, It translates as "Give me your hand" which is a lovely slow air. And as luck would have it..... here's the tune... I don't know that it scans very well though.
MIDI file: GIVEME.MID Timebase: 480 Name: TABHAIR DOM DO LAMH This program is worth the effort of learning it. To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here ABC format: X:1
Slainte Alison |
Subject: RE: White, orange and green From: Bo Date: 21 Jul 98 - 10:50 AM Belter, if its any consolation I have the CD myself and the Album Notes are basically non-existant, you're not missing anything. Bo Thanks for the transcription. |
Subject: RE: White, orange and green From: AndreasW Date: 22 Jul 98 - 03:01 AM As far as I remember there was another verse about the girl coming into town next day because her friend (or was it the soldier?) was killed fighting for Ireland. Am I correct, or is old age setting in ? Andreas
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Subject: RE: White, orange and green From: Wolfgang Hell Date: 28 Jul 98 - 03:24 AM Andreas, in the version I know the last two verses are quite different and one is similar to what you quote. It's a pity I do not understand the central bit of that verse. Should I post the rest anyway? Wolfgang |
Subject: RE: White, orange and green From: belter Date: 28 Jul 98 - 05:29 PM I wouldn't mind getting the additional verses. By the way, I've thought of the version I know as a comment on the pointlessness of all the killing. Does anyone interpret this song differently? |
Subject: RE: White, orange and green From: Mick Lowe Date: 28 Jul 98 - 05:42 PM Belter, It's a pitty all these types of songs aren't about the pointlessness of killing. At the end of the day what's more important? Religion, a lump of land or human lfe? Mick p.s. I know I am fortunate enough not have been subjugated for any reason be it religious or political and I empathise with those that have. But still there must be other ways of proving your point than taking innocent lives.
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Subject: RE: White, orange and green From: AndreasW Date: 29 Jul 98 - 02:33 AM Hi Wolfgang, Yes, please post it. It will help me (and perhaps others) to remember the rest. Thanks in advance Andreas
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Subject: RE: White, orange and green From: Wolfgang Date: 04 Aug 98 - 03:29 AM I'll post it next week |
Subject: RE: White, orange and green From: David Date: 09 Aug 98 - 08:58 AM I think if you're looking for a song about the pointlessness of killing, perhaps that would be "And There Were Roses." But "White Orange and Green" is clearly a song of Irish patriotism and hence Irish Republicanism. The English soldier decides to harass this girl who is flying the Tricolour (which would have been quite illegal in older days) and she responds that if he wants the flag then he must fight her for it. "there's no use in fighting a girl of sixteen, who would die for a banner white, orange, and green" is not meant to say that fighting is pointless but rather that the British holding onto their rule in Ireland is pointless, because there will always be even the most unlikely of rebels (a girl of 16) who will be willing to die for their country. That has always been my interpretation, but i would love to hear the "missing" verse. |
Subject: RE: White, orange and green From: Pete M Date: 09 Aug 98 - 06:45 PM David, yes I agree, that is how I have interpreted the song. One could argue that the song makes the point that all the while there are "girls of 16" who are prepared to fight and kill / be lilled in order to impose their particular "ism" on the remainder of the population there will never be an end to pointless killing; but I strongly suspect that that was not the intention of the writer. Pete M |
Subject: RE: White, orange and green From: Brack& Date: 09 Aug 98 - 08:43 PM Spot on David |
Subject: Lyr Add: THE MAN HE KILLED (Thomas Hardy) From: BSeed Date: 09 Aug 98 - 10:22 PM I don't know if anyone ever set this to music: It's by A. E. Houseman, I think. If not, by Thomas Hardy. THE MAN HE KILLED Had he and I but met At some old ancient inn, We might have sat us down to wet Right many a nipperkin. But ranged as infantry And standing face to face, I shot at him, as he at me, And killed him in his place. I shot him dead because-- Because he was my foe. That's so: my foe, of course he was, That's clear enough, although He thought he'd 'list perhaps Off-hand, like, just as I-- Had sold his traps, was out of work, No other reason why. Oh, quaint and curious war is: You shoot a fellow down You'd treat if met where any bar is, Or help to half a crown. And if killing another soldier is absurd, then killing someone who is not a threat to you is absurd to the nth, depraved. ---seed |
Subject: RE: White, orange and green From: leprechaun Date: 10 Aug 98 - 02:44 AM Apparently that particular soldier opted not to be a threat to her. If you want to eliminate all the Irish songs about revolution and violence, you're going to miss out on a lot of good music. Or you could just spend the next hundred years or so rewriting them so they don't offend anybody. |
Subject: Lyr Add: WHITE, ORANGE AND GREEN From: Wolfgang Date: 10 Aug 98 - 10:36 AM This is the version of White, Orange and Green I have on a CD called "50 complete Irish rebel songs". The first two verses are quite similar to the version posted above with "maiden" replacing "girl", "British" "English" and so on. I start my version with the last line of verse 2: 2...and he tried for to capture the flag of Sinn Fein.
3. "You'll not get these colours, the fair maiden said,
4. T'was early next morning in Tipperary town, (I have no idea what to put in the parentheses in the last line; I have put there two words that sound similar to what they sing, but I don't even know whether it's one words or two) Wolfgang
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Subject: RE: White, orange and green From: BSeed Date: 10 Aug 98 - 03:46 PM Leprechaun: I said "killing [the innocent]," not singing about killing, is depraved. I sing many songs about murder--but none advocating it. I read somewhere that early in World War II, British and American military strategists debated whether bombing of non-military targets was justifiable. The answer they arrived at, unfortunately, was that it was (kind of like Sherman's March through Georgia in the US Civil War), and as a result the Allies adopted terror bombing as a tactic (the Nazis had done so as early as the Spanish Civil War, of course), and by the end of the war perpetrated such atrocities as the fire bombing of Dresden. The US went on to the atomic bomb, and from there to such things as the continued genocidal sanctions against Iraq. --seed |
Subject: RE: White, orange and green From: GUEST,RECILDUDLEY@HOTMAIL.COM Date: 05 Aug 00 - 02:31 PM THIS IS A GREAT SONG AND I AM HAPPY TO SEE SO MUCH INTREST IN IT, IF ANY ONE HAS THE CHORDS THAT IT IS REALLY DONE IN PLEASE POST THEM. ORANGE OR GREEN DOES NOT MATTER, PEOPLE ARE ALL THAT MATTER. FRIENDSHIP, LOYALTY, LOVE. RECIL |
Subject: Lyr Add: THE GALTEE MOR MOUNTAINS or GALTEEMORE From: Jimmy C Date: 05 Aug 00 - 02:59 PM This song is called "THE GALTEE MOR MOUNTAINS" or GALTEEMORE. It has been recorded by many people throughout the years. See some notes below regarding the fairly recent version by the Grehan Sisters. I first heard this song about 1950. Here are the words as I learned them.
In the Galtee Mor Mountains not far far away
A young British Soldier was passing that way
You shan't have these colours the young maiden cried
The young British soldier turned white as the snow
Early next morning near Tipperary town NOTES I imagine the song has been added to through the years. The last verse of the Grehan Recording that starts:
So young men and maidens from Erin's green shore Also the reference to Tom Ashe in the last verse above has been changed to "Mick Keane", my guess would be that Mick Keane was a victim of the recent troubles and as such became part of these additions or changes. The British soldier has also became an English Bobby. The Grehan's version has an extra 3rd verse about the Bobby demanding the emblem. Many changes - but that's folk music for you, it happens a lot and I hope it always will. As far as the pointlessness of killing I agree wholeheartedly. The meaning of the song is quite simple as far as I know. The Irish were for many years not permitted to be Irish. The young girl is carrying the flag of Ireland in Ireland and a British soldier tried to take it off her. She simply is saying enough is enough, try to take this and one of us will die. Period. Slainte |
Subject: RE: White, orange and green From: Liz the Squeak Date: 06 Aug 00 - 04:59 AM It isn't Thomas Hardy - he never fired a gun in anger in his life (he considered himself "above" those things like patriotism or duty, because he was too busy being mean and melancholy and getting depressed when they said he couldn't marry his cousin and his books were immoral.... Besides, it's too short, Hardy would never use one word where 26 would do.....). Anyone got the words for 'There were roses'? LTS |
Subject: RE: White, orange and green From: Brendy Date: 06 Aug 00 - 05:05 AM Here you go, Liz. B. |
Subject: RE: White, orange and green From: GUEST,guest Date: 26 Apr 05 - 11:42 AM Well, this thread seems to be older, but it helped me much to find the Lyrics so I'll post the Chords here, whitch I think, are right. maybe a bit simple :) . I took the first lyricversion, because I know it in this way, too: A fis D A In the bold Galtee mountains so far far away A fis D E I'll tell you a story that happened one day A fis D E About a young girl her age was sixteen A fis D A And she carried a banner white orange and green Now a young English soldier was passing that way And he spied the young girl and her banner so gay He laughed and he joked and got off his machine Returning to capture white orange and green You can't have my banner the young girl replied Till your blood and mine on the bold gaught is lied For I am a rebel and that's nothing mean And I'd lay down my life for white orange and green Well the young English soldier turned white as the snow Got on his machine and away he did go For there's no use in fighting a girl of sixteen Who would die for a banner white orange and green |
Subject: RE: White, orange and green From: GUEST,Giulia Date: 11 Mar 06 - 02:46 PM Well I finished casually here, looking for the text of a song I had heard and liked... and I'm not Irish and I didn't know was a patriotic song. But what I think is that the text is beautiful and moving. In my interpretation the sense is that for the powerful British to keep their rule on a little poor country as Ireland is really not that important, something you can "laugh" and "joke" about. While for the Irish is a matter of liberty and dignity, at the point that even young girls are ready to die for that. And the soldier understand and so he choose to go away. It means that if powerful nations learn to respect the rights of weak people bloodshed can be spared and I don't see how a song like that could be seen as encouraging terrorism or war. |
Subject: RE: White, orange and green From: GUEST,thurg Date: 12 Mar 06 - 01:04 AM Re: The Man He Killed, which somehow came up in this thread - it is by Thomas Hardy (whatever certain people may think of him!) |
Subject: RE: White, orange and green From: Jim I Date: 12 Mar 06 - 08:12 AM As to the tune it is not "Give me your Hand" which is, as Alison points out, "a lovely slow air". It is in fact the old English tune "Villikins and his Dinah" used over the years to a large number of songs. The Scottish song "The Wee Magic Stane" springs to mind. It is in the DT although I couldn't get the midi to play. |
Subject: RE: White, orange and green From: Declan Date: 12 Mar 06 - 02:04 PM I have my doubts that the 'Tom Ashe' bit was part of the original song. To the best of my knowledge Tom Ashe died in a raid in a place in Couty Meath now known as Ashebourne. This happened during the Easter Rising in 1916. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the first time the green white and orange flag ("The flag of Sinn Fein") was unfurled was during the rising also. If this is the case I doubt if a sixteen year old girl in Tipp would have had one to wear. I am open to correction on any of this. There seems to be a big leap between the soldier riding off on his machine and the girl hearing of the death. I think the verse was added in later for political effect. Of course its also a possibility that the original line was Tomás which is simply the Gaelic for Thomas - could have been a local person in Tipperary. I'm not aware of any links between Tom Ashe and Tipperary. |
Subject: RE: White, orange and green From: Declan Date: 12 Mar 06 - 02:16 PM Just Googled Tom Ashe and got some extra information. He survived the battle in Ashbourne and was imprisoned. He was involved in a hunger strike in Mountjoy prison. Attempts were made ti force feed the prisoners and Tomn Ashe was taken to a nearby hospital where he died in September 1917. So there may be a possibility that the flag was being used in all parts of the coutry by then. Found nothing other than the song to link Tom Ashe to Tipperary. He was apparently born in Kerry and educated in Waterford. |
Subject: RE: White, orange and green From: Jim I Date: 12 Mar 06 - 02:20 PM I got to wondering why this song should be associated with "Give me Your Hand" so I dug out the tape I have it on. Like Belter above I can't find the cover but I think it's the same tape as his. Anyway the tune "Give Me Your Hand" follows on from "White Orange and Green" as part of the same set. Quite appropriate really as the last 5 notes of the song are the same as the first 5 of the tune. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: White, Orange and Green From: GUEST,sean L Date: 18 Apr 21 - 09:50 AM Thomas Francis Meagher introduced the Irish tricolour in 1848 in his native Waterford city, there is a statue of him there near the Tower Hotel. Meagher would later become a significant general in the Union army during the American Civil War. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: White, Orange and Green From: Snuffy Date: 18 Apr 21 - 10:52 AM The Grehan sister's 1968 version has a policeman rather than a soldier: On the Galtee Mor Mountains, so far, far away, I will tell you a story that happened one day It's about a young Colleen, her age was sixteen And she carried a banner - white, orange and green. A bold British bobby by chance passed that way Saying "Who is that maid, with the banner so gay" With a laugh and a sneer, he jumped off his machine Determined to capture the flag of Sinn Fein "O give me that banner", the bold bobby cried "Give me that banner, and do what is right Give me that banner, and do not be mean For I must have that emblem - the flag of Sinn Fein." "I'll not give you that banner," the young maiden cried "Till your blood or my blood its colours have dyed For I have here a rifle and that's nothing mean And it's gladly I'll die for the flag of Sinn Fein" That peeler's red face turned as white as the snow He mounted his cycle and started to go Saying "What is the use, when a maid of sixteen Would die for her colours, white, orange and green." That very same day in sweet Tipperary town That gallant young girl from the Galtees came down Her poor heart was torn with anguish and pain, For that very same day Mick Kean died for Sinn Fein So you young men and maidens from Erin's green shore Raise a cheer for that maid from the proud Galtee Mor And please keep on fighting the cause of Sinn Fein Till we make dear old Ireland a Republic again (Mick Kean/Keane was an IRA man killed in Tipperary in 1916) |
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