BS: What do you know about scooters?

Subject: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 02:16 AM

Hi all,

I've been looking at getting a motor scooter and am having trouble coming up with useful information. I don't know where else to turn so I decided to try at my favorite place on the WWW.

I only have around $1,000 to spend so here are my questions:

Are the "off" brands (non Vespa, Honda, Yamaha, etc.) any good? I see new 50cc scooters that look great for $800. Will they happily carry a 200+ lb. man? Will they run for a long time?

Should I look for a used scooter instead? Are the 50cc hondas more powerful and really better as the $1,700 price tag for a new one suggest?

I haven't been able to find a dealer for the "off" brands in Orlando where I live, and I'd have to get someone to take me to Tampa Bay or further to even test drive one, so I'd really appreciate some feedback and whatever else you'd like to share. Buying anything with a motor very if difficult for me because I know so little about vehicles.

Thanks, in advance!

Blackcatter

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 03:55 AM

I was a 'mod' in 1970 and had a 200cc Lambretta. I loved it but it was very tempremental! I had various motor bikes, up to 650cc, after that and can confirm that a 50cc Honda will indeed carry a 200+lb man. Mine carried me and the then to be Mrs G. (350+ between us at the time) all over the place at up to 55mph at that! That was 30 years ago and I guess engines have improved since as well.

Good luck and happy scooting:-)

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From:
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 10:11 AM

What do you want a scooter for (boddy hairdryers!!) get a proper motorbike-don't listen to that mod!! Rockers rule!

Only joking.
here are many good motorcycles. (Are you talking USA scooter? Which is a motorbike for us in the UK) A UK scooter is one of them funny things with tiny wheels and a cover round the front.

Yamaha do some good 50cc's and they will carry you and posessions about pretty well. You don't say if you have a full or learners licence. In the UK Up to 17yrs old you can only ride a M/cycle with a max output of 12Kw or 50cc. Over 17 you can ride a motorcycle up to 125 cc, when you pass your test you can ride up to 400cc and then after 2 years take another test to allow you to ride any size of bike.I suspect you want a "scooter" there are several brands coming from all over the aisian continent, most are pretty similar except in price. The Italian ones seem best, they are all 12V with much more reliability that ever before. 2 strokes provide the best power output, but almost all of them are unit engine, gearbox or automatic. Often the auto's wear out, since they rely on cones for the final drive. Good and regular servicing is the key, change oil well before service time, keep the machine clean, look out for corrosion, get one with leading link forks-less prone to dipping and loosing stability.

Good luck

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 10:27 AM

Thanks,

Some additional info.

I do want a scooter - like a Vespa or Lambretta, but I haven't even been able to find used ones of those in good condition for less that $1,500.

I'm 36 and have a full drivers license.

In much of the U.S., including Florida, scooters under 50cc don't require a special motorcycle license.

I doing this primarily for economics. I don't have much money to spend and I'm trying to save the money on auto insurance.

I also only put about 30 miles a week on a vehicle and it is all city driving, as I live and work in Downtown Orlando

It sounds good that a 50cc engine will carry me around, but I still wonder about the non-regular brands. If you don't know of what I speak, follow this blue clicky.

scooters

thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 11:26 AM

I rode a 105 cc Honda for a couple of years. I've always had Hondas and, with proper maintainance, they are very reliable. There are some very steep hills here and it got me up and down with no trouble. In Florida, 50 cc should be fine for off freeway riding. You said 200+ pounds? I'm heavier than you.

In city traffic, I think I prefer a scooter because of the short wheel base.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: Amos
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 11:34 AM

Vespa and Lambretta were the dominant names in motor scooters for many years. They are hardly off brands. Their market share got nibbled badly by the Honda.

Ya know, for a lot less money you can get a motor-driven bicycle which will toodle you along happily at 30 to 40 mph. The classic French versions are VeloSolex and Mobylette. You can buy conversion kits, as well.

Anyway I drove a Lambretta for years and was very happy with it except for the exposure to rain. Stable, easy to handle, ran reliably, carried 300 lbs (backj then, though,m that was two people!) without complaint.

A

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 02:00 PM

They make a lot of bloody racket

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 04:07 PM

The choice between a scooter and a motorized bicycle depends mostly on the road surfaces where you are. At 40 mph an eroded surface can kill you.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 05:50 PM

Wear a helmet and boots - road rash sucks and your brains don't resist pavement well.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 06:32 PM

Amos

Vespa and Lambretta are still big names - they're just very expensive new and don't seem to loose any of their value used.

What I mean by off brands are things like "Xtreme" and "Qingqi"

Blackcatter

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 07:06 PM

Don't bother with any of the newer Italian brands - motorbikes specifically, but Gilera and Aprilla have produced scooters too - they're pants, both of them. They look very nice but they don't have half as much poke as they should and they sound like sewing machines.

Go for something like a Honda, or a Vespa... with the right conditions you can make a Vespa sound like a hurdygurdy.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: Larkin
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 07:14 PM

Pity you are not in London, my son has an old Vespa for sale a 125 I think?? Only wants £100 mind you it needs a lot of work- but the engine has been rebuilt.

Good luck Martin

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 18 Mar 03 - 10:54 PM

Thanks for the offer Larkin, but a 125 is too big, at this point. Over here, anything bigger than 50cc is a motorcycle which requires a special license as well as insurance. I'm trying to avoid both.

Thanks all, and if anyone has ever ridden one of the new non-Italian, non-Honda or Yamaha ones, I'd really like to know how they run. I'll have to travel 2 hours to test drive one.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: GUEST,Red Eye
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 02:30 AM

What about this beauty!!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2407593006&category=6722

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 05:25 AM

One of the reasons that a 50cc Honda will produce enough power is that they use 4-stroke engines rather than the 2-strokes which Vespa etc have always used. 4-stroke engines tend to produce much more bottom-end power and are more economical than 2-strokes. They are also usually much more reliable at starting.

Virtually all cars, and most of the more powerful motor-bikes use 4-stroke engines for these reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 11:29 AM

Honda is having a big sale right now - low interest rates - and being new they would be under warranty.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 19 Mar 03 - 04:02 PM

This may be hard to understand, but I don't beleive in going into debt.    I'll look to see if the sale is reduced prices as well. Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: sed
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 02:54 PM

Personal safety is a real concern. I'd rather be in hock for life with a decent body than in traction with incalculable wealth. Wouldn't you? I've noticed that motorists are very impatient with bicyclists such as myself but also with anyone traveling slower than they. People use cars to harass the one in front and often cars become deadly weapons. 'With one eye in my rear view mirror' I can steer my bicycle off the road in a hurry when motorists start acting crazy, which they often do. Many are drunk or high on substances, including anger and self-pity. Others are simply not paying attention and forgetful that they are losing control of a several ton, rolling missle. Better to be safe and broke than just broken up.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 03:33 PM

Many of these little scooters can be de-restricted Very easily. Often it's just a washer at the mainforld end of the the exhaust. Take it off, take the washer out and you increase BHP a bit more. Often check on the inlet side too, as again there are air/mixture restrictors. Easily done.
Aprillia make some VERY nice 80cc's. Try Piaggio.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 20 Mar 03 - 04:06 PM

The first 2 wheeled thing I ever had was a Lambretta LD150 with 2 seats and a strap between them. We just used to ride it round a field and wrecked it doing things like jumps. Shame, it was in excellent nick when I paid £20 for it. Anyway I digress...

I'm not to sure of the current market but if I had a choice of a 50cc machine and it still exists, I would probably go for the Honda C50 with the "step through" gear change. It's not scooter like as say the Honda Melody (which Dave is a 2 stroke) is but it is a very reliable machine. I knew someone who had 10s of thousand miles out of one.

As for weight, I have ridden on the back with my friend so at that rate, I'd guess it was pulling more like 300+ lbs with no trouble. I also went with him once (I was riding the larger C70 that day) into the Welsh mountains, I mean off road in the end (almost to Llyn Dulyn if anyone knows it) and both machines coped well.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 06:29 AM

I rode a Honda C50 all over Ireland when I was working there in the 1960's. Even with a pillion passenger it pulled up steep hills in the Wicklow Mountains. Sometimes, late at night, coming back to the hotel from Dublin Airport, where we were working, I'd have one of my colleagues on the back and another one sitting on the handlebars - the Guarda were quite relaxed about such things in those days.

Honda definitely pioneered small 4-stroke engines - I have an outboard motor and a generator both made by them - and they always start first pull on the recoil starter.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 10:18 PM

Greetings all,

Thank you for all your input.

I've decieded to go for a new Chinese 50cc scooter. It's a 2-person that has quite a lot of power as it's rated for up to 320 lbs of load. Since I'm a 100 lbs less than that it should work well for me. Also, being in Orlando, FL, I don't have to deal with hills or ice. Rain, yes, but I'll take it slow and aviod it when possible anyway (why would I want to ride while I get wet?).

It's not a Vespa or Honda, but I think it will be fine. It has a warranty.

Also - Florida law does not require a motorcycle license for a 50cc & under scooter and no insurance is required either. Hell, they'll even let me ride without a helmet, but I'm not stoopid, oops, stupid.

All in all this just might be a good thing. I'll let you know when I get it.

pax yall

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 21 Mar 03 - 10:35 PM

Dave, I came off the back of the even larger C90 once getting a lift home. The road home was a 1 in 4 hill and my lift giver was probably about 17st (plus my lesser weight on top of that for the poor old bike). He was a little clumsy in kicking it into first on the steepest part and the front wheel went up in the air and off I went... I'd had a few too many and all I could do was laugh.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 22 Mar 03 - 12:28 PM

This thread reminded me of something I though a while back - Mudcat could use an international weights and measures guide. I realize there are others out there, but hell, ours would be useful to us!

Hmmmmm maybe I'll start a thread. Oh wait - that would be the second BS thread that I've started. Am I heading down the long road to hopelessness? Is there an BS Annonymous program I should be looking into?

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 22 Mar 03 - 01:26 PM

Blackcatter:

I haven't been in Florida since I was 5, but I do have friends there. WATCH OUT FOR STORM WINDS! They can be tricky and dangerous. there. And everywhere else, too.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: open mike
Date: 22 Mar 03 - 02:14 PM

Scooters is the name of the cafe where i host an open mike event
on Wednesday nights.

Subject: RE: BS: What do you know about scooters?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 22 Mar 03 - 10:47 PM

So why was it named Scooters? Someone who owned it have the nickname?

By the way open mike, I don't know if I ever mentioned it in a thread you've read, but Blackcatter is my online name because of the open mike I started and co-host in Orlando, the Black Cat Cafe. In May will be the 8th anniversary.

By the way, I've been looking into the local scooter club, but their website implies that they think anyone not on a Italian scooter to be not worthy of membership. I may just have to form an alternative club that welcomes everyone, even Vesparinos (or whatever they call themselves).