Lyr Req: Back Home in Derry (Bobby Sands)

Subject: Back Home in Derry lyrics?
From:
Date: 25 Nov 96 - 01:17 PM

Looking for the lyrics to this Christy Moore song.
Thanks in advance.

James Sullivan

---

Messages from multiple threads combined.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: Lyr Add: BACK HOME IN DERRY (Bobby Sands)^^^
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 26 Nov 96 - 09:58 PM

Hi-
Christy Moore sang it; Bobby Sands wrote it.

BACK HOME IN DERRY
(Bobby Sands)

In 1803 we sailed out to sea
Out from the sweet town of Derry
For Australia bound if we didn't all drown
And the marks of our fetters we carried.

In the rusty iron chains we sighed for our wains
As our good wives we left in sorrow.
As the mainsails unfurled our curses we hurled
On the Engllsh and thoughts of tomorrow.

cho: Oh Oh Oh Oh I wish I was back home in Derry.
Oh Oh Oh Oh I wish I was back home in Derry.

I cursed them to hell as our bow fought the swell.
Our ship danced like a moth in the firelights.
White horses rode high as the devil passed by
Taking souls to Hades by twilight.

Five weeks out to sea we were now forty-three
Our comrades we buried each morning.
In our own slime we were lost in a time.
Endless night without dawning.

cho:

Van Dieman's land is a hell for a man
To live out his life in slavery.
When the climate is raw and the gun makes the law.
Neither wind nor rain cares for bravery.

Twenty years have gone by and I've ended me bond
And comrades' ghosts are behind me.
A rebel I came and I'II die the same.
On the cold winds of night you will find me
me.

cho:

@Irish @rebel @transportation
filename[ BCKDERRY
play.exe BCKDERRY
RG
Written by Bobby Sands for his comrades from Dem( who were ln the H-Blocks^^^

Subject: RE: Back Home in Derry lyrics?
From: Alisdair
Date: 27 Nov 96 - 02:03 AM

Dear Dick,

Ye beat me tae it lad !

GOOD JOB !!

Slainte' !

O O \_/

Ali (alisdair)

Subject: RE: Back Home in Derry lyrics?
From: James
Date: 04 Dec 96 - 09:05 AM

Thanks, Dick. I never would have plucked all those words out of a recording I made of a friend who sings it with a dense Cork accent(e.g. "thoughts"-->"tots", etc.)

James

Subject: RE: Back Home in Derry lyrics?
From:
Date: 04 Dec 96 - 02:15 PM

Dick and Ali, I went back to my tape and discovered yet another (the second) verse, something like:

............foil,..............soil
'Cause down below decks we were lyin'
A dirty scream woke me up from a dream,
A vision of old Robert dyin'(?)
????????????????????????
Don O'Connor was down with the fever.
60 rebels took dead, ????????????
How many..................deceive her(?)

........Is this a bootleg verse?
James

Subject: RE: Back Home in Derry lyrics?
From:
Date: 12 Dec 96 - 01:04 PM

At the mouth of the Foyle bade farewell to the soil
As down below deck we were lying.
O'Doherty screamed, woken out of a dream
Of visions of bold Robert Daniel.
The sun burnt cruel as we dished out the gruel,
Then O'Conner was down with a fever.
Fifty rebels today bound for Botany Bay,
How many will reach their receiver?

Note: I am typing this from memory and may not be 100% accurate. I have no idea who the people are that are mentioned in the verse. The Foyle is the river that flows through Derry city. It's a lovely song! Regards,
Noel P Browne.

Subject: Lyrics? Derry
From:
Date: 25 Mar 97 - 01:58 PM

Hi,

I was wodnering if anyone heard of a sea song, with a refrain of..

Ohh, I wish I was back home in Derry!

(We'd drink during the verses and sing the refrains, so I can name about any refrain, the rest of the songs go hazy on me.)

I think there was part of one verse that went..

And the seas ran dry, and the devil passed by carrying souls to Perdition".

Can't seem to find it in the db.

Thanks,

Major Tom

Subject: RE: Lyrics? Derry
From: Barry Finn
Date: 25 Mar 97 - 02:42 PM

Hi Tom, I don't know of any sae songs with that refrain, there are a bit with Down Down Down Derry Down, but I don't think this is what you want. I think it was Tommy Sands that took the tune from Gordon Lightfoot's Wreck Of The Emma Fitzgerald & wrote a song called, I think, I Wish I Was Back Home In Derry, that also being the chours.

Subject: RE: Lyrics? Derry
From: Bobby O'Brien
Date: 25 Mar 97 - 06:23 PM

Gee, I know a few good Derry songs. One is, of course, the legendary "Lovely Derry On the Banks of the Foyle". Another is "Farewell to Derry". I have also heard the song "I wish I was Back Home in Derry", and it is a new song. I will ring our local Irish radio programme this coming Sunday and ask. Look for a msg Sunday after 3 pm.

Subject: Lyr Add: I WISH I WAS BACK HOME IN DERRY
From:
Date: 25 Mar 97 - 09:26 PM

I WISH I WAS BACK HOME IN DERRY

In 1803 we sailed out to sea
Out from the sweet town of Derry
For Australia bound if we didn't all drown
And the marks of our fetters we carried.
In the rusty iron chains we sighed for our weans
As our good wives we left in sorrow.
As the main sails unfurled our curses we hurled
On the English and thoughts of tomorrow.

CHORUS: Oh Oh Oh Oh I wish I was back home in Derry.
Oh Oh Oh Oh I wish I was back home in Derry.

I cursed them to hell as our bow fought the swell.
Our ship danced like a moth in the firelights.
White horses rode high as the devil passed by
Taking souls to Hades by twilight.
Five weeks out to sea we were now forty-three
Our comrades we buried each morning.
In our own slime we were lost in a time
Endless night without dawning. CHORUS

Van Dieman's land is a hell for a man
To live out his life in slavery.
When the climate is raw and the gun makes the law.
Neither wind nor rain cares for bravery.
Twenty years have gone by and I've ended me bond
And comrades' ghosts are behind me.
A rebel I came and I'll die the same.
On the cold winds of night you will find me. CHORUS
--------------------

enjoy

Tony

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 12-Apr-03.

Subject: RE: Lyrics? Derry
From:
Date: 29 Mar 97 - 01:21 PM

Does anyone have the chords to "Back home in derry"

regards

Pat

Subject: RE: Lyrics? Derry
From:
Date: 30 Mar 97 - 11:20 AM

This song was recorded by Christy Moore on his album "Spirit of Freedom" ; this is what he has to say about it in his song book: "Written by Bobby Sands for his comrades in H-blocks. He performed this song at the nightly concerts they had in the blocks, singing it out the keyhole to his Derry comrades" Chords are: Am--Em--G-D--Am Very much the same as Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. Hope this is some help!

Subject: Lyr Add: BACK HOME IN DERRY (Bobby Sands)
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 14 Aug 97 - 09:12 PM

Just to correct an old thread here it is again:

BACK HOME IN DERRY (Bobby Sands)

In 1803 we sailed out to sea, out from the sweet town of Derry
For Australia bound if we didn't all drown, the marks of our fetters we carried
In the rusty iron chains we cried for our weans, our good women we left in sorrow.
As the mainsails unfurled our curses we hurled at the English and thoughts of tomorrow.

At the mouth of the Foyle bade farewell to the soil as down below decks we were lyin'
O'Doherty screamed wakened out of a dream by a vision of bold Robert dyin'.
The sun burnt cruel as we dished out the gruel, Dan O'Connor was down with a fever.
Sixty rebels today bound for Botany Bay, how many will reach their receiver?

We cursed them to hell as our bow fought the swell, our ship danced like a moth in the firelight.
White horses rode high as the devil passed by, taking souls to Paddy's by twilight.
Five weeks out to sea we were now forty-three, we buried our comrades each morning.
In our own slime we were lost in the time, endless night without dawning.

Van Diemen's Land is a hell for a man to live out his whole life in slavery.
Where the climate is raw and a gun makes the law, neither wind nor rain care for bravery.
Twenty years have gone by, I have ended my bond, my comrades ghosts walk beside me.
A rebel I came, I'm still the same, on the cold winds of night you will find me.

Note that Paddy's is short for Paddy's purgatory.

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: Info on
From: David
Date: 10 Feb 98 - 09:22 AM

On the St. Patrick's Day favorite thread, I came across a song mentioned by Rick by this title, and written by Bobby Sands. I have never heard of it before and wondered if Rick (or anyone else) could supply some info on the lyrics and where one might find it recorded.

Slán! David

Subject: RE: Info on
From: David
Date: 10 Feb 98 - 09:26 AM

Oops! Just found the lyic in the database.

Still would like info on any recordings though :)

Subject: RE: Info on
From: Wolfgang Hell
Date: 10 Feb 98 - 09:33 AM

Hi David,
it's a beautiful song and it has been sung (among others I should think) by Christy Moore (see the discography on the Unofficial Christy Moore website, http://shaw.iol.ie/~pcassidy/christy.html). Here's a shortcut to the lyrics of Back home in Derry.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Info on
From: alison
Date: 10 Feb 98 - 05:00 PM

Hi,

Bobby Sands was the first of the IRA hunger strikers to die whilst in prison.

Apparently whilst in prison (in the "H" blocks) he used to sing the song through the door of his cell when they had evening sing-a-longs.

Good song

Slainte

Alison

Subject: RE: Info on
From: BAZ
Date: 11 Feb 98 - 07:43 PM

David

If the tune in ABC would be of use leave a message.

Regards

Baz

Subject: RE: Info on
From: Benjamin Bodhra/nai
Date: 12 Feb 98 - 02:44 AM

The tune is actually from the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald, composed by Gordon Lightfoot, just in case you see that name credited. Bobby Sands appears to have been a prolific writer of both lyrics and prose whilst in The Maze. He also wrote another song recorded by Christy Moore "McIlhatton".

The Moore album that it can be found on is "Ride On" (that is both of the songs)

Sla/n

Subject: Lyr Add: VOYAGE (Bobby Sands)
From: Rick
Date: 14 Feb 98 - 03:46 AM

David, the original poem by Bobbie Sands is called Voyage. You can find it in the book, Bobby Sands; Writings from prison. Here it is:

It was 1803 when we sailed out to sea
And away from the sweet town of Derry.
For Australia bound, if we didn't all drown,
The marks of our fetters we'd carry.

Our ship was the Gull, fourteen days out of Hull
And on orders to carry the croppy
Like a ghost in the night as she sailed out of sight
Leaving many a wee'an unhappy

In our rusty iron chains, we cried out for our wee'ans.
Our good wives we'd left in our sorrow.
As the main sails unfurled, our curses we hurled
At the English and thoughts of tomorrow

At the mouth of the Foyle, bade farewell to our soil
As the sea turned as blue as the heavens.
The breeze filled our sails of a yellowish pale
And the captain lay drunk in his cabin.

The Gull cut the sea, carving our destiny
And the sea spray rose white and came flying.
O'Doherty screamed, awoken out of his dreams
By a vision of bold Robert dyin'.

The sun burnt us cruel as they dished out the gruel
Dan O'Conner lay dying with fever
60 Rebels today, bound for Botany Bay
God, how many would reach the receiver?

I cursed them to Hell as our bow fought the swell
And we danced like a moth in the firelight
White horses rode high, as the Devil passed by
Taking souls to Hades in the twilight.

Five weeks out to sea, we were now 43
And the strongest wept bitter like children.
Jesus, we screeched and our God we beseeched
But all we got was a prayer from the pilgrim.

In our own slime, we were lost in the time
Hoping God in his mercy would claim us,
But our spirits shone high like stars in the sky
We were rebels and no man would tame us.

We were all about lost, two round score was our cost
When the man on the mast shouted, "Land hoe!"
The crew gave a cheer as we cradled our fear
And the fathoms gave up and we swam low.

Van Diemans Land is a hell for a man
To live out his whole life in slavery
Where the climate is raw and a gun makes the law
Neither wind nor rain care for bravery.

Twenty long years have gone and I've ended my bond
My comrade's ghosts walk beside me.
A rebel I came, I'll die just the same
It's on the cold wind at night that you'll find me.

Slainte
Rick

Subject: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Zorro
Date: 26 Jul 98 - 12:08 PM

Back home in Derry, written by Bobby Sands, a cousin (I think) to Tommy Sands from Newry. The song has a phrase: "Van Dieman's land" who or what is Van Dieman? Also, at the end of the lyrics is says; "written by Bobby Sands for his comrades from dem...? (Who were in the H Blocks) any body know? Thanks.

---

Messages from multiple threads combined.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Kiwi
Date: 26 Jul 98 - 04:15 PM

Van Dieman's land was the term for Australia back when it was a penal colony. Hence "Van Dieman's land is a hell for a man to live out his lives in slavery"

Slán, Kiwi

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Brack&
Date: 26 Jul 98 - 08:09 PM

If you type Fitzgerald in your filter you will come up with some more info on this song. Click here

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Helen
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 12:48 AM

Specifically, Van Dieman's Land was the name for Tasmania, the island state to the south of the Australian mainland.

As I understand it the H-Blocks were the part of a prison where the English placed the Irish political prisoners, and a lot of the prisoners went on starvation protests and died there.

Helen

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: AndreasW
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 02:09 AM

Isn't H-Blocks the abbreviation of High-Security-Blocks?
I always interpreted it that way.
Van Dieman's land is nowadays called Tasmania. As far as I remember from history lessons at school (many years ago) it was Van Dieman who discovered it.
Andreas

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: alison
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 02:55 AM

Hi,

The H blocks are part of the "Maze" prison just outside Belfast. when viewed from the air the cell blocks are in the shape of the letter "H".

Bobby Sands and others died there after going on hunger strike.

Do a search through the threads, we had a fairly big thread on this not long ago.

Slainte

Alison

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: hrodelbert
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 03:02 AM

Sung beatifully by Christie Moore

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 05:26 AM

G'day, Just to get some of the details of Van Diemen's land correct, Anthony van Diemen (note the spelling) was the Governor-General of the Dutch East Indies when the Dutch navigator Abel Tasman Discovered Tasmania in 1642. He named it VDL after the G-G, but it was known unofficially as Tasmania from at least 1823, and officially from 1856.

Also note the link between Tasmania and Sir John Franklin (see recent thread).

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Kathleen
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 05:20 PM

Seven Nations does a good job on this song on their debut album.

Kathleen

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Kiwi
Date: 28 Jul 98 - 10:14 AM

Kathleen - Ah, someone else listens to Seven Nations. Question, though - do you know why they changed their name from Clan na Gael?

Also, I noticed that they leave out a couple of verses (a friend of mine sang it at a coffeehouse recently) - anyone know what they are?

Slán, Kiwi

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: ZORRO
Date: 28 Jul 98 - 05:28 PM

Hey Kiwi, why not just tell us and save us the time and effort? Thanks...

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Connor
Date: 19 Sep 98 - 03:21 PM

G'day Kiwi, are ye still after verses. I ken verses which begin with a. In 1803 b. At the mouth of the Foyle c. I cursed them tae hell d. Van Dieman's land Verse b is nae always recorded. Let us ken if ye want it. Oz

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Sep 98 - 04:58 PM

Connor, if the verses aren't here, we want 'em. Click here to see what's already in the database. Looks like we don't have the one about the mouth of the Foyle.
Is the second verse (In the rusty iron chains...) correct in the database, split up as it is?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: Lyr Add: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 19 Sep 98 - 08:34 PM

G'day,
Her's how it should look:-

BACK HOME IN DERRY

In 1803 we sailed out to sea,
Out from the sweet town of Derry
For Australia bound if we didn't all drown,
The marks of our fetters we carried
In the rusty iron chains we cried for our weans,
Our good women we left in sorrow.
As the mainsails unfurled our curses we hurled
At the English and thoughts of tomorrow.

Oh...................... I wish I was back home in Derry
Oh...................... I wish I was back home in Derry.

At the mouth of the Foyle Bade farewell to the soil
As down below decks we were lyin'
O'Doherty screamed wakened out of a dream
By a vision of bold Robert dyin'.
The sun burnt cruel as we dished out the gruel,
Dan O'Connor was down with a fever.
Sixty rebels today bound for Botany Bay,
How many will reach their receiver?

We cursed them to hell as our bow fought the swell,
Our ship danced like a moth in the firelight.
White horses rode high as the devil passed by,
Taking souls to Paddy's* by twilight.
Five weeks out to sea we were now forty-three,
We buried our comrades each morning.
In our own slime we were lost in the time,
Endless night without dawning.

Van Diemen's Land is a hell for a man
To live out his whole life in slavery.
Where the climate is raw and a gun makes the law,
Neither wind nor rain care for bravery.
Twenty years have gone by, I have ended my bond,
My comrades ghosts walk beside me.
A rebel I came, I'm still the same,
On the cold winds of night you will find me.

* short for Paddy's Purgatory.

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: alison
Date: 19 Sep 98 - 08:37 PM

Hi,

I've heard a couple of variations on the last verse. It can be sung as.....

My comrades ghosts walk behind me,....... and

On the cold winter's night you will find me.......

I've heard it done both ways.

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Benjamin Bodhra/nai/
Date: 20 Sep 98 - 09:50 AM

The Paddy's bit we always sing as Hades. that's the way Christy recorded it and teh way it is in the original poem by Bobby Sands. For those who don't know (this seems to come up in threads regularly) Bobby Sands wrote a poem called "The Voyage" which has got a stack of verses in it but not the chorus we sing, and Christy Moore arranged some of the verses, changing and amalgamating bits, and set them to the music of "The wreck of the Edmund Fitxgerald" by Gordon Lightfoot. There is an IRA/Sinn Fein/H-Block Hungerstrike page somewhere in cyberspace that talks about those who died during the strike in the Maze, and also has some of Sands' poetry, including "The Voyage" in full.

Of course not the only song that Christy does of Sands', MacIlhatton is also writtn by him.

BB

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Connor
Date: 20 Sep 98 - 11:32 AM

With a few minor variations it seems that Alan has covered things well. Ooroo, Connor

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: alison
Date: 21 Sep 98 - 02:51 AM

Hi,

I have heard it sung "taking souls to Paddy's",

and heard the singers saying that they are referring to Paddy's Purgatory....... right or wrong ..... it wasn't me who said it. so that's where the Paddy's bit comes in

Slainte

alison

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Big Mick
Date: 21 Sep 98 - 09:00 AM

The only thing I would add is that Bobby Sands, May He Rest In Peace, used to sing to his comrades on the blankets through the keyhole of his cell door in order to keep their spirits up as they went through the awful ordeal of "ceala/chan". This is an Irish Gaelic term for the custom of starving oneself to death on the doorstep of one's adversary. I am sure that all of the Celtic nations have a term for it. In Celtic society, one of the worst thing that could be said of someone is that they were inhospitable to guests. W.B. Yeats described it thusly in "The King's Threshold"

"He pleaded for his Poets rights. I said I was the King and all rights had their original fountain in some King. My Bishops, soldiers and makers of law shouted approval. But the Seanachain went forth, and from that hour to this, though there was good food and drink before him, has eaten nothing. He has chosen to die, refusing eat or drink. Disgrace upon me!! The common people, for all time, will raise a cry against the threshold, even though it be the King's."

In March of 1981, these 10 lads invoked ceala/chan and died on hunger strike.

Mickie Devine, Martin Hurson, Francis Hughes Joe McDonnell, Kieran Doherty, Patsy O'Hara Kevin Lynch, Ray McCreish, Tom McElroe Bobby Sands

God Be Good to them.

Mick

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Iason
Date: 22 Sep 98 - 10:10 AM

We strongly echo Mick's sentiments. May their deaths not be in vain, and may Ireland soon be a nation at peace and under Irish rule. May we wish the English all the best of bad luck and strife on the homefront as it attempts to deal with the results of it's financial and cultural raping of those countries whose people are now seeking sanctuary and support in England. May England sweetly and swiftly travel down the road to ruin.

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Pete M
Date: 22 Sep 98 - 05:09 PM

Iason,

your attitude is what, I am afraid, has killed thousands in Ireland over the years, and it will never know peace nor unity while this view prevails. Until we are ready to admit that those who support our cause are as likely to be murderers and criminals and those who oppose us honorable, there can never be true reconciliation.

Fortunately for Ireland, I believe your attitude is now held, apart from a very small minority, only by those who have never had any direct experience of the struggle.

Pete M

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: alison
Date: 22 Sep 98 - 08:37 PM

hi,

Can we leave the politcs out of this because we're not all going to agree. I've lived through all of this, never actually knew peace in my lifetime (not until the last two lots of it anyway..... let's hope it lasts this time)

Surely the object of this discussion is to appreciate a good song, (which this certainly is)..... so let's get back to that.

Slainte

alison

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Big Mick
Date: 22 Sep 98 - 11:30 PM

Lest I be misunderstood. I love this song because it is about honorable people fighting injustice against hopeless odds. They chose a very old custom, used by their people over centuries to combat this type of oppression.

I have always supported the just struggle of the Irish people to have one Ireland, undivided and free. But I must tell you, Iason, that we must never allow the struggle to be reduced to phrases and curses. When we dehumanize those that oppose our aims, we close the door on any peaceful, long term solution. When we do that, we condemn another generation of Irish children to experience that which alison so eloquently expresses. And we encourage the types of acts of brutal savagery that we recently saw in Omagh. The people of the North and the South of Ireland have spoken. If the Irish in America and other parts of the world are as interested in the future of the land of our parents as we say we are, then we will support their wishes with the same fervor that we have supported the armed struggle. "Tiocfaidh a/r la/" - Bobby Sands

So here's to a grand song that salutes brave people who wished for a free and peaceful Ireland. When this finally comes to the land which has given all of us, Irish born and Irish claimed, this marvellous culture that we celebrate, it will be in some measure due these brave lads.

"Life springs from death; and from the graves of patriot men and women spring living nations" Padraig Mac Piaras

Mick

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Sep 98 - 08:42 PM

With apologies to Alison, I would like to hear a discussion of the politics of the problems of Ireland. It's something that we in the rest of the world need to understand. I realize that it can be painful to talk about it, but people need to hear it.
Of course, I would hope that any such discussion would be friendly, peaceful, and reasonable, governed by logic and not by slogans and prejudice.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 23 Sep 98 - 08:50 PM

Joe- Re:"Of course, I would hope that any such discussion would be friendly, peaceful, and reasonable,governed by logic and not by slogans and prejudice."

When you have some spare cash, I have some shorefront property in Arizona you might wish to buy.

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Sep 98 - 08:55 PM

Well, Dick, I guess we have had more than our share of nastiness here lately. I hope it goes away. I prefer the friendly, civil tone of most of the discussions we've had in the past. I can't see how nastiness can accomplish anything worthwhile.
What harm is there in being good to each other?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Big Mick
Date: 23 Sep 98 - 10:50 PM

I would like to second both of you. Some time back I allowed myself to get sucked into some nastiness. I have regretted it since as I felt I had demeaned our marvellous creative community. I made an oath that I would not allow it to happen again.

alison, I have many Irish friends, a number of them from the North. Some feel as you do, others are strident supporters of the armed struggle. I know that most of the time, we 'catters prefer to stick to the music. But so much of the music of Ireland deals with the struggle, that it seems appropriate to have a discussion. Being raised in Belfast, you would be invaluable to that discussion. My own background is simply that I was raised in a very Republican emmigrant family, "raised on songs and stories, heroes of reknown" and I have been around Irish friends and relatives all my life. I could certainly add a different perspective to the discussion, but you were raised with the troubles. Give it some thought, OK?

And to all others, by its nature the subject is volatile. It need not be uncivil.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: alison
Date: 23 Sep 98 - 11:57 PM

Hi,

I have nothing against talking about the troubles at home. My problem is with the sort of comment above which only help to fuel the hatred that is always there, sometimes below the surface, sometimes not.

I personally do not care what category other people fall into. It shouldn't matter if they're protestant, catholic, buddhist, muslim, or bug-eyed alien they all have the right to be treated equally, and have the right to express their point of view. It's when that point of view is taken to be the only true and right one that I have the problem.

As Mick (I think) said earlier there are generations of kids in Ireland who have been brought up to be (at the very least) suspicious of the opposite side of the community. eg. don't trust him, he's a protestant / catholic. Until we start to build up trust in each other it's going to be very difficult to get anything accomplished.

I was one of the lucky ones, my family was not bigotted. I have friends both protestant and catholic. My sister and I attended a mixed (religion) school. I will admit that there were areas of Belfast that I would prefer not to go to, in case of trouble. This is not a good thing but it's just part of the nature of what was going on. People were very wary of each other, often you felt that you needed to be careful of what you said in case "someone was listening." Having said all that I find it's the same in most big cities... there are areas you just don't go to because they're "bad areas".

Having painted that picture, Belfast is a lovely city, it was a great place to grow up. There was very little in the way of street crime, kids were able to walk to school on their own or go to the park without fear of being abducted. I miss the friendliness of the people.

Don't apologise Joe, I don't mind having a discussion, it's the nastiness that it could bring out that I don't want.

Slainte

alison

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 24 Sep 98 - 05:29 PM

I'd like few things better than to be proven wrong about this.

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Pete M
Date: 24 Sep 98 - 05:49 PM

Thank you for your understanding Alison I tried to avoid any statement which could be construed as partisan in my contribution as much from my knowledge of your origins as form the view that it would not help.

Mick, if everyone, not just in Ireland, had your strenghth of character and "rightness" to look beyond the political folk tales and myths they are taught when young, the world would be a better and safer place.

For what it's worth, I will add a few comments which may present a different view to the "official" line of either side.

Firstly back in the sixties (when you and I were young Maggie :-)), there were undoubted inequalities and persecution of the Catholic community. I and the vast majority of my peers, worked as actively against this as we did against Vietnam. I believe that the ground swell of political opinion would have seen these addressed to the satisfaction of the majority of Catholics, and it was for this reason that the IRA, very skilfully, and cynically, exploited protest marches to create a violent outcome. I say this on the basis of information that is in the public record and also from the personal recollections of Catholics who were actively involved at the time, and whom I count amongst my friends.

Similarly, the view of some "martyrs" held by those who grew up with them is, I know, at odds with the hagiographic view held by many Americans of Irish descent.

OK end of history lesson, the next bit is my personal opinion.

It is unfortunate but true, that the kind of person most effective in the kind situation which existed are those who in another time or place would gravitate to organised crime, Mafia etc. I am not suggesting that they do not necessarily, on either side, hold their beliefs sincerely, just that as I said above, that someone supports your cause, does not them make them a saint.

At the end of the day, the "armed struggle" and its counter by the protestants, boils down to the end justifying the means. If we accept that, then how can we condemn bombs in 747's, Oaklahoma state buildings; Agent orange; "ethnic cleansing" etc.? I believe you have the right to die for something you believe in, I do not believe you have the right to kill someone for being "different", or because an ethinic/cultural minority are percieved as being oppressed. I seem to remember around 30 million people dying 50 years ago because someone held those views.

Sorry if I've rambled on, I'm really not the best person to comment, but if anything has really depressed me recently, it was the reported intention of NORAID to continue funding violence in Northern Ireland despite as Mick has pointed out, the wishes of a majority of all Ireland; and after Iason's little effort I felt I had to say something.

Pete M

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Kathleen
Date: 25 Sep 98 - 02:58 PM

I would like to think that I know something about the situation, but htankfully I have not had to deal with it first hand on a regular basis. There have been comments and such directed towards me due to my background, but I feel that I can look at it in a fair context. With that said, let me tell you a little story. . .

From my understanding, the clan O'Neill has been a powerful clan for thousands of years. To be the High Ling, you had to be an O'Neill, etc, etc. And so it continued untill the late 1500's, early 1600's when Hugh O'Neill led the doomed Last Great Rebellion and fled the country. The O'Neill family continued to support the Irish cause against England. Then, at the end of the 1800's, a branch of the O'Neills was forced to come to America, Rochester, New York (by way of Canada) to be precise, although this was not because of the famine. They lived there, raising their children as good Catholics. One James O'Neill married and had four kids, the youngest named Martha. Prior to his settling down, he had fought in WWII, contracted malaria in Africa, and spent some time recooperating in Ireland, where he became a supporter of the IRA and possibly a member (but I have no record or that). He also raised his kids Catholic.

Meanwhile, the McMichael family of the Stewarts of Appin in Scotland, were fighting their own struggle agaisnt the English. Being unsuccessful, they fled to Northern Ireland, where they lived for a time until they got into trouble with the law there and came to America. They settled in north western Pennsylvania. One of the sons' sons was Rev. William McMichael, a prominent Presbyterian (please forgive my spelling) minister, who built 6 (I think) churhces and wrote a number of books. His children and grandchildren were all raised Protestant, but William (different one) married a Catholic woman and raised his four kids as Catholic, which did not make the family very happy, but hsi immediate family still talked to him. His oldest son was named Dennis.

As fate would have it, Dennis McMichael and Martha O'Neill happened to both be hired by the same company and became friends, fell in love, got married, and had four kids, the oldest named Kathleen. I would like to point out that my mother's family is still supportive of a Free Ireland, while one of my father's relaties, Gary, heads a Protestant political party in Northern Ireland. In fact, Gary's father was killed by an IRA car bomb in the 80's. So if this isn't sleeping with hte enemy in real life, I don't know what is.

The End

Sorry that was so long, but it was nice to tell it to people who would understand. I live in a very Slovak town where I was once asked if I was speaking English when I told my classmates my name at the public school. The sad thing is the kid was being serious!

Later,

Kathleen

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From:
Date: 27 Sep 98 - 04:53 PM

Some of the rebels from the 1837 rebellion in Canada were also sent to Van Diemen's Land, if they weren't lucky enough to escape to the US. One, I think, eventually rose a position of some prominence in Australia. I'll have to go look at that historical plaque again.

I think there is a song in the Helen Creighton collection, from Nova Scotia, about Van Diemen's Land although I am not aware that prisoners from NS were sent there.

Associated reading, The Fatal Shore.

As for these songs stirring up old quarrels, listen to The House of Orange, by Stan Rogers, for a different view. I would have thought that the EU would have put an end to this kind of nationalism in Europe nowadays. Even the English are taking their laws from Brussels.

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 28 Sep 98 - 06:37 AM

G'day,
The Fatal Shore by Robert Hughes certainly is an important account of the Australian penal settlements, some of the worst being in Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania), e.g. Port Arthur and MacQuarie Harbour. Norfolk Island (Mutiny on the Bounty) now a holiday resort was also very cruel.

Irish immigrants, both voluntary and otherwise have played a very significant part in Australia's history.

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Iason
Date: 29 Sep 98 - 01:35 AM

I spent nearly 30 yrs of my life in and around Derry. I never said that I supported the targetting of civilians and have always opposed such actions for many, many reasons. Nor do I hold the view that just because someone is not a Catholic that they are therefore to be treated automatically as the enemy. I have however spent most of my life working towards a free Ireland. Those of you in the US take your freedom for granted. Perhaps only the blacks have any idea of the persecution that was practised and indeed still exists - only on a more subtle level. So don't be so arrogant as to judge me so quickly and surely. I would certainly much rather see Ireland united through peaceful means. If this can be achieved I would be overjoyed. Nobody wants to see death and injury if peace and goodwill can achieve the same aim. I am also prepared to give the peace process every possible chance. Just don't sit back in your safe North American homes and judge me based on your interpretation of a few lines. May God bless and unite Ireland and all her people...

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From:
Date: 29 Sep 98 - 01:56 AM

The problem is that many sit back in their safe North American homes or lean at the bar in their pseudo-Irish pubs and send money to the guys who plant the bombs. If they went in person to fight the SAS I might have a little more respect for them, although I would still think they are several decades out of time.

At least the guys who opposed Franco went to Spain themselves, but I suppose that was a different generation. I don't think I would want my cause supported by fat guys in stretchy plaid pants who drink green beer and cry when they listen to The Wild Rover.

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Sep 98 - 09:47 AM

Gentlemen,

I agree that many of my countrymen have a skewed idealistic view of the troubles. What troubles me most is their view of the war as a glorious battle for a free, united Ireland. War is never glorious, and I speak from the perspective of a person who was in the US military from 1969 to 1975. I remember being at a party a few years ago, when a young man who "supports the Republican cause" was bragging loudly that we had "shot down a Brit helicopter" as if he had been there. He caught me at a bad moment. I remember grabbing him and asking him what the hell he knew about killing. I remember asking him if he had ever looked into the eyes of a man that he was in the process of killing, and feeling the little shudder a body lets off as it gives up its soul. I also chastised him to remember that for every "Brit" killed, some mother cries for her lost son, some sister cries for her dead brother, perhaps some child will never know the love of its father. It is when we allow the commanders to dehumanize our enemy that war becomes glorious, instead of the most terrible job that sometimes MUST be done.

Iason, if you took offense at my comments, please accept my apologies. It is just that I have seen to many of my Irish American friends with this glorified view of the troubles. I believe strongly in one Ireland, free and undivided. I have supported the armed struggle in the past, and I believe you should be able to tell from the above paragraph that I have not done so blind to the terrible cost. I have supported it primarily with political action. My comments, in fact, were meant to say to Irish Americans that if you really support the Irish people, you will support their wishes to give this process a fair chance, and conversely will do nothing to support tearing it down.

Pete M., thanks for your kind comments. While I don't necessarily disagree with some of your facts with regard to the manipulation of events on both sides, the base line remains. You indicated that the Catholics were discriminated against in the sixties. The fact is that the Catholics have been discriminated against since the time of Cromwell and before. The underlying problem in the North is that the "unwelcome stranger" put a stranglehold on the resources and employment over three hundred years ago and have yet to let it go. Your analogy to the problems of the African-American is right on the money. I do not believe that we would be at the gateway to peace were it not for the IRA forcing the world to look at the problems with a critical eye. I will never allow the assertion that "England and her policies on the Irish question are not the root of the problem" to go unchallenged. Any attempt to shift culpability to the IRA is simply an attempt to shift the premise of the debate and is not born out by historical fact.

I intend to remain supportive of the wishes of the Irish people on this matter.

Mick

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Pete M
Date: 29 Sep 98 - 05:44 PM

Thanks Mick, for putting that view far better than I could.

If you or any others got the impression from my earlier contribution that I was not aware of the history prior to the sixties, or that I was trying to allocate or transfer "blame"; that was my error for not making myself clear. I confined myself to those areas I spoke of, because they were ones on which I could quote from personal or first hand, experience. My friends in Northern Ireland are catholic, and so I have an insight into the machinations on that side. I did not mean to imply that there was not at least as much cynicism and manipulation by the protestants or the British authorities. I agree Mick, that sometimes you have to fight, but most emphatically agree with you that we must never loose sight of the fact that the "enemy" is as human and important an individual as ourselves. Similarly, we can honour courage, and the sacrifice people make for their beliefs, without being blind to their faults.

Iason, I did not mean to imply that you supported indescriminate violence, but I did feel, and still do, that the kind of "joyous hatred" for the "other side" which came through in your earlier post can only perpetuate a problem. If in the process of redressing one wrong, another group is demonised and marginalised, they too will inevitably instigate an "armed struggle for freedom" of their own.

Not all of us are, or have been, "sitting safe in America", but I would not presume to judge you on the basis of a few lines, although I do reserve the right to judge, and comment on, the ideas expressed in those lines.

The important point is that we all agree on the need to heed the will of the majority in Ireland, and ensure that the peace process is not highjacked or subverted by fanatics of either hue.

Pete M

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From:
Date: 30 Sep 98 - 03:13 AM

The transplanted strangers have been there too long to send them home. If you take that argument to its logical conclusion then white North Americans should pack up and move back to Europe, and give the land back to those who had it first. I've heard people say that this is so, but I have yet to see any of them buying plane tickets.

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Sep 98 - 08:48 AM

Tim, I agree that the descendants of the "unwelcome strangers" are now just as Irish as any other. You need only look to the success of Meanscoi/l Feirste (Belfast Irish School) in Belfast to see the evidence of this. It is a secondary school which teaches in Irish as its primary medium. English is only used when it is being taught as a second language. The school has Catholics and Protestants alike, who are united in their irishness and love of the language. Historically, the "Old English" whom today we know by the "Fitz" in their names, were originally Norman settlers who became some of the most Irish of our people. The problem has no simple solution. To illustrate, I will use the example of a friend of mine. I am purposely leaving out names as I have not asked his permission, but his story is compelling. He is a founding member of one of the greatest Irish bands ever. They recorded the original version of the largest selling song in the history of Irish radio. They wrote songs about the troubles, about the ancient wrongs committed against their people, and recorded many songs about the bold IRA. To say that they were a voice in support of the armed struggles would be to put it mildly. A couple of years ago, a young RUC policeman was assassinated. This was shortly after the peace negotiations had begun. No one could figure out why he was killed. He had a Catholic wife and was raising his children Catholic. When I saw the pictures of the grieving widow, my friend was at her side. It turned out that it was his sister and the young RUC man was his brother-in-law. Can you imagine the thoughts that he must have now? The doubts as to whether some of his music may have contributed to this? I wonder what questions his nieces will have for him someday.

What's the point the story,you might ask. Well, mostly to point out that nothing is ever as clean and easy as we Americans like to think. There was a movie recently with Harrison Ford and Brad Pitt. Without commenting on the merits of the movie, there was a line in it that really struck home for me. It was when the Pitt character said, "It's not an American story, It's Irish". The guys in the white hats are not going to ride in and save Ireland. Irish people have to step to the plate and find ways to deal with 600 years of very complex problems. And they need to be supported in their efforts by the Irish in other lands. If the wish of the people had been to continue the armed struggle, then I would be supportive of that too. But they have chosen, in a convincing fashion, the way of negotiation.

Enough of my rambling,

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Kathleen
Date: 30 Sep 98 - 01:35 PM

Many times it feels like trying to understand the problem with Northern Ireland and looking for a solution is just like running into a brick wall over and over again. But there's always the hope that you will break through. If enough people pound on the wall and weaken it, it will one day fall. The problem lies in being patient enough to see the day it falls.

A lot of people don't realize the depth and complexities of the problem and are quick to pass judgement, which can be extremely frustrating. (not directed to anyone here, rather someone I was talking to yesterday.) Nothing will be solved until people on both sides are willing to compromise. The thing is, nobody (again in general) really likes to compromise, especially when dealing with their lives and beliefs. No one can truly justify using violence, but they can make a good case sometimes, and if they're talking to the right people, the violence will continue. I can't make any brilliant suggestions or give any good insight, but at least know that the fact that this thread has evolved into a good discussion is in itself, part of the solution.

Kathleen

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 May 99 - 07:04 PM

Refresh

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Billy J
Date: 08 May 99 - 07:18 PM

mudcatters. music crosses all divides we play in sessions all over the north of ireland including donegal and have never asked our fellow their religion or views. we are happy that we have never had this problem and would ask that it should not be raised in the mudcat. most of us would like to forget the past.

Billy J Co Antrim

Subject: 'Back Home In Derry' Lyric search
From:
Date: 14 Jul 99 - 04:23 AM

Please help with a URL or maybe the lyrics to this song

Subject: RE: 'Back Home In Derry' Lyric search
From: Ted from Australia
Date: 14 Jul 99 - 04:53 AM

Richard,
Welcome to the Mudcat

Type [back home in Derry] in square brackets in the blue square at the top rh corner of the page and you will be transported to the DT and the words and music to over 6,000 folk songs

Regards, Ted.

See advice in Back Home in Derry thread You have posted this 3 times. please dont be impatient :-), the friendly folks here will help you out as soon as they can. . The Yanks are all asleep at this time of day.

BTW the "air" is not traditional Christie Moore attributes the tune to Gordon Lightfoot's Wreck of the Edmond Fitzgerald

Regards, Ted.

Subject: RE: 'Back Home In Derry' Lyric search
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Jul 99 - 05:10 AM

Lyrics sent by e-mail. Duplicates of this thread deleted. It seems the threads with generic titles just draw more generic requests, so, I've been transferring the information over into threads with appropriate titles, so the information doesn't get lost.

Subject: RE: 'Back Home In Derry' Lyric search
From: alison
Date: 14 Jul 99 - 06:55 AM

Hi...

Here's a previous Back home in Derry thread

started an interesting discussion....

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Ferret
Date: 14 Jul 99 - 11:35 AM

I have many friends in both in the north and the south of ireland, and have had many talks on this subject. I have found that in Ireland almost no English history is taught. And in England and the north no Irish history is taught. The only way to fight ignoranc and predigest is with education, tolerance and understanding on both side's. As some one who had his sister nearly blown-up in the Deal boming it is not some thing i am not affeceted by. But an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth gives you a country with a blind and tooth-less people. we have to find a way to sort this problem out to the wishes of ALL the people that live in Northan Ireland. The problem would be much eaiser to sort without the antagonistic interferance of people who do not/have not lived in the North for years and years if ever.

Eire cabra:

ferret

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Big Mick
Date: 15 Jul 99 - 09:18 AM

First off, my friend, the answer is to be open to other opinions. When that doesn't happen, you have intolerance, such as you see every 12th of July. Second off, if weren't for the "interference" of others that hadn't lived there assisting the oppressed, the American Civil Rights movement would never have been spawned. The same is true in the north of IRELAND. It is usually the oppressors or the people who benefit from discrimination that want the "foreigners" to leave. Finally, you should have read the whole thread before commenting. Uninformed opinion is usually about hearing oneself speak. You would have seen, had you read it, that most of the people who have expressed an opinion, want to honor the wishes of the people of the North of Ireland. Give it a read again, and then let's have a discussion about your land and the land of my grandparents and my family.

Mick

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: alison
Date: 15 Jul 99 - 09:31 AM

Hi,

I would like to have been taught Irish history in school, but it was only taught to the A level people (17-18 year olds) and I had given up well before then.

I am only now learning Gaelige, which again was something I wish I had done in school... but I give up ...I can't find "cabra" in my dictionary. so what does it mean please?

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Ferret
Date: 15 Jul 99 - 02:35 PM

Re: Mick

I to believe in a united Ireland, Free and unshackled. And there was a time for the armed struggle and a time to suspend it.

There are many indents that have been committed by English government but with a 'D' notices the press are gagged. In earlier times most of the common English could not read and it is very hard to know how much you don't know.

When Republican MP's are not allowed to take their seat in Parliament or be hard on TV and radio there is no point in the ballot box and people lose faith in Democratic methods

But with radio and T.V. you would think that it would be better, but it was not till the arrival of satellite T.V. and the Internet that the truth has started to come out and the English that I have spoken to on this which are many have been horrified.

In the U.S. I can forgive you not knowing what it is, to not have a free press if you had the same laws there that we have hear there would not have been a Water Gate.

Now Cromwell was a right B***** to the English too, killing thousands & thousands hear too, his men Rap, Robed and Killed at will.

Now the common Englishman is a reasonable man and dose not tolerate in justice and oppression (i.e.: The Gulf, Bosnai, and Kosovo ) any more than the next.

And if the same things had all been dun to them as were in Ireland you would have got the same results.

Now when is a freedom fighter a terrorist, when you don't agree with him.

All Governments sponsor freedom fight/terrorist the U.S. & the U.K. are no

exception to this rule.

In the sixty's the British Army was sent in to the North to protect the Catholics, now it did not stay that way for long.

And as more and more of the Army was sent in more and more came home disillusioned and disturbed by all they had seen and heard and many left the Army for this reason.

They spoke to other's and it has spread to so many who like my self would have loved to have been in the Army would not go in, and go to Ireland, and firmly believe that the English have NO business in Northern Ireland.

Now it is becoming more visible as to who are the one's who are holding up the negotiation, not the I.R.A. and not the British (At the moment) but the loyalist. And if this falls threw all over their inability to sit down and talk with some one with a different opinion.

They have to under stand that no Army in history has laid down it's arms before there is peace and neither can the I.R.A. yet there is still a long way to go.

At the end of the day all people want the same thing for their family and loved ones so we must find a way of doing this, hopefully peacefully.

But it's not so many years since the U.K. under Margaret Thatcher was getting very near to Armed Rebellion with the poll tax and other things.

A very large number of the British will not forgive the I.R.A. for missing her in Brighton.

I'm sorry if I have rambled on I do get carried away some times when I feel so strongly about something.

I hop this has not offend. But to be able to listen to other people and discuss is the only way to go. May the God's bless Ireland and ALL her people.

26+6=1

P.S. I am a Pagan and have no religious axe to grind ether way but we have been persecuted by all side for 2,000 years.

I am dyslexic so if there are spelling or spellchecker faults sorry.

All the best Ferret

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Big Mick
Date: 15 Jul 99 - 06:39 PM

Ferret, your message came through loud and clear and it is much appreciated. It cleared some things up for me. I appreciate the effort it took to do it.

For me the acid test is not whether or not someone agrees with me or not. The only thing that I expect is that when they take a position it is from an informed view. If one is willing to take a position, then it should be because they have arrived at it from a strong examination of all the facts. I can see that you are well informed. I probably don't agree with everything you have said, particularly the piece about what Irish Americans do or don't understand. But I do see where you are coming from and appreciate the depth of feeling with which you state your case.

I will not comment on most of what you have said as I agree with most of it. The intransigence of the Loyalist being brought to light is an affirmation of a long held opinion of mine. The only people in the North who make this a religious issue is the Loyalists. They continue to fight unification on the supposed basis that they don't want to live in a Papist state. The facts are that the Republic is extremely religously tolerant country.

One more comment that I would make. I hope your comment on Thatcher was tongue in cheek. While I accept that as PM she was a legitimate military target, I do not wish the ASU's had got her. I intensely dislike her labor politics and her position on the Irish. But I do not wish her dead, just defeated.

Tiocfaidh a/r la/.

Mick

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Ferret
Date: 15 Jul 99 - 07:54 PM

Re: Mike

I do not advocate violence to solve a problem.

I wish I was able to say that the comment on the P.M. was not a commonly held view in the U.K. by the British at the time, but I can not.

I now of a lot of Brits who were arming up at the time.

This in a country with very few arms, but with the labour Government this is dying down now.

26+6=1

all the best

Ferret

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Ferret
Date: 15 Jul 99 - 07:56 PM

Here is the k missed out of know Sorry

ferret

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: WyoWoman
Date: 15 Jul 99 - 11:21 PM

Hello -- I've been sitting in, just listening. And wondering what you all think about this latest development, with the Unionists refusing to nominate Cabinet leaders and the breakdown of the peace process? Is this, as the pols are saying, just a setback, or is it the end of all the work that's been done in this direction?

WW

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 01:52 AM

It is certainly very sad. We can only hope and pray that the vast majority of the people of Ireland get want they have clearly demonstrated they want and deserve, peace.

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Ferret
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 05:58 AM

This is not much of a suprise from the Unionists. (funny I allwas thought unionist meant to unit not to dived and dived again)

A resent poll of the north still had 61% of the people are still be hind the talks. All we can do is hop and pray that Just once sum common sense can get in to the Unionist.

Well I hop and pray for all Irelands people, and hop the politicians give peace a chance.

Ferret

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: WyoWoman
Date: 16 Jul 99 - 10:02 AM

Amen and amen.

WW

Subject: RE: Info on
From:
Date: 26 Sep 99 - 02:09 AM

My friend's band "Sunday's Well" does an excellent version of this song. They are regulars at the Black Rose in Boston.

Subject: Back home in Derry (Chords request)
From: GUEST,Rainer
Date: 23 Dec 01 - 08:06 AM

Hello!

I am looking for the chords of "Back home in Derry".

Thanks in advance Rainer

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: Back home in Derry (Chords request)
From: GUEST,Paul
Date: 23 Dec 01 - 08:20 AM

Click Here for chords

Paul

Subject: Edmund Fitzgerald sound-alike
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 02 - 07:37 PM

I know that there's a song out there that has the same tune as "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald," but a bit more of a folk-ey sound, as well as a chorus. I just don't remember anything else about it. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

-J

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Edmund Fitzgerald sound-alike
From: InOBU
Date: 21 May 02 - 07:53 AM

Hi Peg!
I have a different take on the song being fun to sing. I have a twin, to whom I am not related, who is so like me, that his sister Liz mistook me for him, so close she has jabbing me in the ribbs, and it took several minutes before she believed that I was not Tony joking with her. Well, Tony and I became close friends, and really like brothers. His brother Patsy O'Hara died on the same hungerstrike as the writer of this song, Bobby Sands. Tony was Bobby's cellmate at the time he wrote the song.
I can't see it as a fun song to sing. It was written while those in Long Kesh concentration camp where held naked in concrete cold cells, in their own filth, as in order to be allowed to clean out the bucket that was their toilet, they would have to put on a prison uniform and acknowelge that the jailing without trial was a legal action.
The words are in no way subtle, when Sands refers to the Irish convicts in their own slime, that, to those of us who intimately know what happened, brings up a host of real horrors which Irish people suffered at the hands of a uncaring colonial power - cavitiy searches used as humiliation and punishment, it would take a book to explain why this is not a fun song to sing, and I shudder when, in Irish American pubs, it is sung causaly with no understanding.
All the best
Larry

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Edmund Fitzgerald sound-alike
From: Big Mick
Date: 21 May 02 - 04:02 PM

I agree, Larry. This song is one of my signature songs and is included on our CD. We open it by reading "The Kings Threshhold" by Yeats. The association is obvious:

He pleaded for his poet's rights. I said that I was the King, and all rights had their original fountain is some King. My Bishops, Soldiers, and Makers of Law, all shouted their approval. But the Seanachan went for, and from that hour until this has eaten nothing. He has chosen to die, refusing eat or drink. Aaach, disgrace upon me. The common people, for all time, will refuse to cross the threshhold, even though it be the King's.

We had a thread on this a long time ago. It is very interesting to read as it takes all the twists and turns. Try going to the supersearch and typing BACK HOME IN DERRY into the box and search just the Forum.

---

This link (click) provided by Joe Clicker...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Edmund Fitzgerald sound-alike
From: Big Mick
Date: 21 May 02 - 05:44 PM

OOPS! What the hell was I thinking? The last line of the Yeats poem above should read:

The common people, for all time, will raise a cry against the threshold, even though it be the Kings.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Edmund Fitzgerald sound-alike
From: Teribus
Date: 22 May 02 - 05:33 AM

Thanks for the words of the song Martin!

Had a look round and came up with the following in answer to a search for "Convict Ships Australia"

Charles Bateson's "The Convict Ships 1787-1868" is regarded as the definitive guide to Australia's period of transportation. Information is given about the voyages to New South Wales, Norfolk Island, Tasmania, Victoria, Queensland and Western Australia. It ranges from the life on board for both crew and convict, right through to records of deaths, numbers of convicts and the length of each voyage. A comprehensive index of the convict voyages has been extracted from Bateson's text and is presented on our convict shipping pages.
Apart from describing each ship, the index gives the dates of each voyage, the ports they travelled between, the number of male and female convicts embarking and disembarking at each port and the route they took. Discrepancies between the number who embarked and disembarked were often due to deaths on board, transfers to other ships en route, or landing at other ports.

Transported convicts were handed over to the master of a ship at the beginning of the voyage and formally transfered into the custody of the Governor of the colony who was receiving them. Indents, or Indentures, were the documents used to record the transaction on arrival.

Conditions on Board Convicts were housed below decks on the prison deck and often further confined behind bars. In many cases they were restrained in chains and were only allowed on deck for fresh air and exercise. Conditions were cramped and they slept on hammocks. Very little information seems to be available about the layout of the convict ships, but a few books do contain artists' impressions and reproductions of images held in library collections.

Although the convicts of the first fleet arrived in relatively good condition, the same cannot be said for those that followed during the rest of the century. Cruel masters, harsh discipline and scurvy, dysentry and typhoid resulted in a huge loss of life.

After the English authorities began to review the system in 1801 the ships were despatched twice a year, at the end of May and the beginning of September, to avoid the dangerous winters of the southern hemisphere. Surgeons employed by the early contractors had to obey to the master of the ship and on later voyages were replaced by independent Surgeon Superintendents whose sole responsibility was for the well being of the convicts. As time went on, successful procedures were developed and the surgeons were supplied with explicit instructions as to how life on board was to be organised. By then the charterers were also paid a bonus to land the prisoners safe and sound at the end of the voyage.

By the time the exiles were being transported in the 1840s and onwards, a more enlightened routine was in place which even included the presence on board of a Religious Instructor to educate the convicts and attend to their spiritual needs. The shipboard routines on some of the Western Australian transports during the 1860s have been transcribed and are worth reading.

I had a look through the voyage listings mentioned above and came up with a total of 862 (634 from UK mainland ports almost exclusively on the south coast; 214 mainly from the ports of Cork and Dublin; 14 voyages with no port of departure identified). Odd thing was there was no voyage to Australia by a convict ship in 1803 and none at all from Derry or Londonderry as I suppose it would have been called then - mind you there was a war on and Nelson was chasing Villeneuve around the oceans that would have been on their route - so perhaps a bit of artistic license is allowed as he had to find something that would rhyme with "sea".

The other thing that surprised me was how few the number of deaths en-route, but that is explained above.

Another oddity was that transportation to Van Deimans Land (Tasmania) did not start until later and seems to have been used to transport prisoners from English prisons - unless prisoners were transferred which would seem strange, as it must have been easier to take the ship to the port nearest to where the prisoners were being held.

But it was fascinating reading.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Edmund Fitzgerald sound-alike
From: GUEST,Declan
Date: 22 May 02 - 05:39 AM

1803 was the year of Robert Emmet's abortive rebellion in Dublin and fits in with the vision of Bold Emmet dying later in the song. So I think he was taking political rather than poetic licence.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Back Home in Derry (Bobby Sands)
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Dec 03 - 05:49 PM

The line in the song that has been much repeated in this thread "O' Doherty screamed, woken out of a dream, by a vision of bold Robert dyin'" is actually " by a vision of bold Robert Emmet"-a reference to the great fenian patriot and poet who was martyred in 1803. Robert Emmets final words were " Let no man gravestone remain uninscribed, when my country takes her place among the nations of the earth-then, and not 'til then let my epitaph be written"

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Back Home in Derry (Bobby Sands)
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Dec 03 - 06:27 PM

Meant to say " Let my gravestone remain uninscribed"!!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Back Home in Derry (Bobby Sands)
From: GUEST,citro 29
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 07:48 AM

hey listen i'm probably not welcome adding my two sence into this convo as i'm not irish. However i am interested in Van diemans Land incredably, may the men and women rest in peace. We in Canada faced close to the same thing, not me directly but inmates before me. Every August 22 we have Prisoners Justice Day, where we celebrate the lives of inmates world wide who fought and fight the system for humanity.We pay our respects by not eating from midnight August 22 to midnight August 23. I'm audviously not in jail now but i continue to deprive myself on this day simply out of respect. Anyways i am looking for info on Van Diemans Land, I think i can do more and it is a very good cause. Unfortunatly i stumbbled on to this site and don't know how i'm gonna get back so if anyone has info you can reach me at [e-mail]. also i'm on msn so if you can add me and we can talk exclusivly.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Back Home in Derry (Bobby Sands)
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 16 Jan 04 - 05:00 PM

Citro, NOBODY is not welcome on the Mudcat unless they behave very badly indeed, and I for one (as another non-Irish person) thank you for your contribution. We tend to forget that Australia wasn't the only part of the world uset to get 'unwanted elements' off the British Isles! Go on posting!