Lyr Req: Back Home in Derry (Bobby Sands)

Subject: Back Home in Derry lyrics?
From:
Date: 25 Nov 96 - 01:17 PM

Looking for the lyrics to this Christy Moore song.
Thanks in advance.

James Sullivan

---

Messages from multiple threads combined.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: Lyr Add: BACK HOME IN DERRY (Bobby Sands)^^^
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 26 Nov 96 - 09:58 PM

Hi-
Christy Moore sang it; Bobby Sands wrote it.

BACK HOME IN DERRY
(Bobby Sands)

In 1803 we sailed out to sea
Out from the sweet town of Derry
For Australia bound if we didn't all drown
And the marks of our fetters we carried.

In the rusty iron chains we sighed for our wains
As our good wives we left in sorrow.
As the mainsails unfurled our curses we hurled
On the Engllsh and thoughts of tomorrow.

cho: Oh Oh Oh Oh I wish I was back home in Derry.
Oh Oh Oh Oh I wish I was back home in Derry.

I cursed them to hell as our bow fought the swell.
Our ship danced like a moth in the firelights.
White horses rode high as the devil passed by
Taking souls to Hades by twilight.

Five weeks out to sea we were now forty-three
Our comrades we buried each morning.
In our own slime we were lost in a time.
Endless night without dawning.

cho:

Van Dieman's land is a hell for a man
To live out his life in slavery.
When the climate is raw and the gun makes the law.
Neither wind nor rain cares for bravery.

Twenty years have gone by and I've ended me bond
And comrades' ghosts are behind me.
A rebel I came and I'II die the same.
On the cold winds of night you will find me
me.

cho:

@Irish @rebel @transportation
filename[ BCKDERRY
play.exe BCKDERRY
RG
Written by Bobby Sands for his comrades from Dem( who were ln the H-Blocks^^^

Subject: RE: Back Home in Derry lyrics?
From: Alisdair
Date: 27 Nov 96 - 02:03 AM

Dear Dick,

Ye beat me tae it lad !

GOOD JOB !!

Slainte' !

O O \_/

Ali (alisdair)

Subject: RE: Back Home in Derry lyrics?
From: James
Date: 04 Dec 96 - 09:05 AM

Thanks, Dick. I never would have plucked all those words out of a recording I made of a friend who sings it with a dense Cork accent(e.g. "thoughts"-->"tots", etc.)

James

Subject: RE: Back Home in Derry lyrics?
From:
Date: 04 Dec 96 - 02:15 PM

Dick and Ali, I went back to my tape and discovered yet another (the second) verse, something like:

............foil,..............soil
'Cause down below decks we were lyin'
A dirty scream woke me up from a dream,
A vision of old Robert dyin'(?)
????????????????????????
Don O'Connor was down with the fever.
60 rebels took dead, ????????????
How many..................deceive her(?)

........Is this a bootleg verse?
James

Subject: RE: Back Home in Derry lyrics?
From:
Date: 12 Dec 96 - 01:04 PM

At the mouth of the Foyle bade farewell to the soil
As down below deck we were lying.
O'Doherty screamed, woken out of a dream
Of visions of bold Robert Daniel.
The sun burnt cruel as we dished out the gruel,
Then O'Conner was down with a fever.
Fifty rebels today bound for Botany Bay,
How many will reach their receiver?

Note: I am typing this from memory and may not be 100% accurate. I have no idea who the people are that are mentioned in the verse. The Foyle is the river that flows through Derry city. It's a lovely song! Regards,
Noel P Browne.

Subject: Lyrics? Derry
From:
Date: 25 Mar 97 - 01:58 PM

Hi,

I was wodnering if anyone heard of a sea song, with a refrain of..

Ohh, I wish I was back home in Derry!

(We'd drink during the verses and sing the refrains, so I can name about any refrain, the rest of the songs go hazy on me.)

I think there was part of one verse that went..

And the seas ran dry, and the devil passed by carrying souls to Perdition".

Can't seem to find it in the db.

Thanks,

Major Tom

Subject: RE: Lyrics? Derry
From: Barry Finn
Date: 25 Mar 97 - 02:42 PM

Hi Tom, I don't know of any sae songs with that refrain, there are a bit with Down Down Down Derry Down, but I don't think this is what you want. I think it was Tommy Sands that took the tune from Gordon Lightfoot's Wreck Of The Emma Fitzgerald & wrote a song called, I think, I Wish I Was Back Home In Derry, that also being the chours.

Subject: RE: Lyrics? Derry
From: Bobby O'Brien
Date: 25 Mar 97 - 06:23 PM

Gee, I know a few good Derry songs. One is, of course, the legendary "Lovely Derry On the Banks of the Foyle". Another is "Farewell to Derry". I have also heard the song "I wish I was Back Home in Derry", and it is a new song. I will ring our local Irish radio programme this coming Sunday and ask. Look for a msg Sunday after 3 pm.

Subject: Lyr Add: I WISH I WAS BACK HOME IN DERRY
From:
Date: 25 Mar 97 - 09:26 PM

I WISH I WAS BACK HOME IN DERRY

In 1803 we sailed out to sea
Out from the sweet town of Derry
For Australia bound if we didn't all drown
And the marks of our fetters we carried.
In the rusty iron chains we sighed for our weans
As our good wives we left in sorrow.
As the main sails unfurled our curses we hurled
On the English and thoughts of tomorrow.

CHORUS: Oh Oh Oh Oh I wish I was back home in Derry.
Oh Oh Oh Oh I wish I was back home in Derry.

I cursed them to hell as our bow fought the swell.
Our ship danced like a moth in the firelights.
White horses rode high as the devil passed by
Taking souls to Hades by twilight.
Five weeks out to sea we were now forty-three
Our comrades we buried each morning.
In our own slime we were lost in a time
Endless night without dawning. CHORUS

Van Dieman's land is a hell for a man
To live out his life in slavery.
When the climate is raw and the gun makes the law.
Neither wind nor rain cares for bravery.
Twenty years have gone by and I've ended me bond
And comrades' ghosts are behind me.
A rebel I came and I'll die the same.
On the cold winds of night you will find me. CHORUS
--------------------

enjoy

Tony

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 12-Apr-03.

Subject: RE: Lyrics? Derry
From:
Date: 29 Mar 97 - 01:21 PM

Does anyone have the chords to "Back home in derry"

regards

Pat

Subject: RE: Lyrics? Derry
From:
Date: 30 Mar 97 - 11:20 AM

This song was recorded by Christy Moore on his album "Spirit of Freedom" ; this is what he has to say about it in his song book: "Written by Bobby Sands for his comrades in H-blocks. He performed this song at the nightly concerts they had in the blocks, singing it out the keyhole to his Derry comrades" Chords are: Am--Em--G-D--Am Very much the same as Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. Hope this is some help!

Subject: Lyr Add: BACK HOME IN DERRY (Bobby Sands)
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 14 Aug 97 - 09:12 PM

Just to correct an old thread here it is again:

BACK HOME IN DERRY (Bobby Sands)

In 1803 we sailed out to sea, out from the sweet town of Derry
For Australia bound if we didn't all drown, the marks of our fetters we carried
In the rusty iron chains we cried for our weans, our good women we left in sorrow.
As the mainsails unfurled our curses we hurled at the English and thoughts of tomorrow.

At the mouth of the Foyle bade farewell to the soil as down below decks we were lyin'
O'Doherty screamed wakened out of a dream by a vision of bold Robert dyin'.
The sun burnt cruel as we dished out the gruel, Dan O'Connor was down with a fever.
Sixty rebels today bound for Botany Bay, how many will reach their receiver?

We cursed them to hell as our bow fought the swell, our ship danced like a moth in the firelight.
White horses rode high as the devil passed by, taking souls to Paddy's by twilight.
Five weeks out to sea we were now forty-three, we buried our comrades each morning.
In our own slime we were lost in the time, endless night without dawning.

Van Diemen's Land is a hell for a man to live out his whole life in slavery.
Where the climate is raw and a gun makes the law, neither wind nor rain care for bravery.
Twenty years have gone by, I have ended my bond, my comrades ghosts walk beside me.
A rebel I came, I'm still the same, on the cold winds of night you will find me.

Note that Paddy's is short for Paddy's purgatory.

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: Info on
From: David
Date: 10 Feb 98 - 09:22 AM

On the St. Patrick's Day favorite thread, I came across a song mentioned by Rick by this title, and written by Bobby Sands. I have never heard of it before and wondered if Rick (or anyone else) could supply some info on the lyrics and where one might find it recorded.

Slán! David

Subject: RE: Info on
From: David
Date: 10 Feb 98 - 09:26 AM

Oops! Just found the lyic in the database.

Still would like info on any recordings though :)

Subject: RE: Info on
From: Wolfgang Hell
Date: 10 Feb 98 - 09:33 AM

Hi David,
it's a beautiful song and it has been sung (among others I should think) by Christy Moore (see the discography on the Unofficial Christy Moore website, http://shaw.iol.ie/~pcassidy/christy.html). Here's a shortcut to the lyrics of Back home in Derry.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Info on
From: alison
Date: 10 Feb 98 - 05:00 PM

Hi,

Bobby Sands was the first of the IRA hunger strikers to die whilst in prison.

Apparently whilst in prison (in the "H" blocks) he used to sing the song through the door of his cell when they had evening sing-a-longs.

Good song

Slainte

Alison

Subject: RE: Info on
From: BAZ
Date: 11 Feb 98 - 07:43 PM

David

If the tune in ABC would be of use leave a message.

Regards

Baz

Subject: RE: Info on
From: Benjamin Bodhra/nai
Date: 12 Feb 98 - 02:44 AM

The tune is actually from the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald, composed by Gordon Lightfoot, just in case you see that name credited. Bobby Sands appears to have been a prolific writer of both lyrics and prose whilst in The Maze. He also wrote another song recorded by Christy Moore "McIlhatton".

The Moore album that it can be found on is "Ride On" (that is both of the songs)

Sla/n

Subject: Lyr Add: VOYAGE (Bobby Sands)
From: Rick
Date: 14 Feb 98 - 03:46 AM

David, the original poem by Bobbie Sands is called Voyage. You can find it in the book, Bobby Sands; Writings from prison. Here it is:

It was 1803 when we sailed out to sea
And away from the sweet town of Derry.
For Australia bound, if we didn't all drown,
The marks of our fetters we'd carry.

Our ship was the Gull, fourteen days out of Hull
And on orders to carry the croppy
Like a ghost in the night as she sailed out of sight
Leaving many a wee'an unhappy

In our rusty iron chains, we cried out for our wee'ans.
Our good wives we'd left in our sorrow.
As the main sails unfurled, our curses we hurled
At the English and thoughts of tomorrow

At the mouth of the Foyle, bade farewell to our soil
As the sea turned as blue as the heavens.
The breeze filled our sails of a yellowish pale
And the captain lay drunk in his cabin.

The Gull cut the sea, carving our destiny
And the sea spray rose white and came flying.
O'Doherty screamed, awoken out of his dreams
By a vision of bold Robert dyin'.

The sun burnt us cruel as they dished out the gruel
Dan O'Conner lay dying with fever
60 Rebels today, bound for Botany Bay
God, how many would reach the receiver?

I cursed them to Hell as our bow fought the swell
And we danced like a moth in the firelight
White horses rode high, as the Devil passed by
Taking souls to Hades in the twilight.

Five weeks out to sea, we were now 43
And the strongest wept bitter like children.
Jesus, we screeched and our God we beseeched
But all we got was a prayer from the pilgrim.

In our own slime, we were lost in the time
Hoping God in his mercy would claim us,
But our spirits shone high like stars in the sky
We were rebels and no man would tame us.

We were all about lost, two round score was our cost
When the man on the mast shouted, "Land hoe!"
The crew gave a cheer as we cradled our fear
And the fathoms gave up and we swam low.

Van Diemans Land is a hell for a man
To live out his whole life in slavery
Where the climate is raw and a gun makes the law
Neither wind nor rain care for bravery.

Twenty long years have gone and I've ended my bond
My comrade's ghosts walk beside me.
A rebel I came, I'll die just the same
It's on the cold wind at night that you'll find me.

Slainte
Rick

Subject: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Zorro
Date: 26 Jul 98 - 12:08 PM

Back home in Derry, written by Bobby Sands, a cousin (I think) to Tommy Sands from Newry. The song has a phrase: "Van Dieman's land" who or what is Van Dieman? Also, at the end of the lyrics is says; "written by Bobby Sands for his comrades from dem...? (Who were in the H Blocks) any body know? Thanks.

---

Messages from multiple threads combined.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Kiwi
Date: 26 Jul 98 - 04:15 PM

Van Dieman's land was the term for Australia back when it was a penal colony. Hence "Van Dieman's land is a hell for a man to live out his lives in slavery"

Slán, Kiwi

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Brack&
Date: 26 Jul 98 - 08:09 PM

If you type Fitzgerald in your filter you will come up with some more info on this song. Click here

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Helen
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 12:48 AM

Specifically, Van Dieman's Land was the name for Tasmania, the island state to the south of the Australian mainland.

As I understand it the H-Blocks were the part of a prison where the English placed the Irish political prisoners, and a lot of the prisoners went on starvation protests and died there.

Helen

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: AndreasW
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 02:09 AM

Isn't H-Blocks the abbreviation of High-Security-Blocks?
I always interpreted it that way.
Van Dieman's land is nowadays called Tasmania. As far as I remember from history lessons at school (many years ago) it was Van Dieman who discovered it.
Andreas

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: alison
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 02:55 AM

Hi,

The H blocks are part of the "Maze" prison just outside Belfast. when viewed from the air the cell blocks are in the shape of the letter "H".

Bobby Sands and others died there after going on hunger strike.

Do a search through the threads, we had a fairly big thread on this not long ago.

Slainte

Alison

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: hrodelbert
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 03:02 AM

Sung beatifully by Christie Moore

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 05:26 AM

G'day, Just to get some of the details of Van Diemen's land correct, Anthony van Diemen (note the spelling) was the Governor-General of the Dutch East Indies when the Dutch navigator Abel Tasman Discovered Tasmania in 1642. He named it VDL after the G-G, but it was known unofficially as Tasmania from at least 1823, and officially from 1856.

Also note the link between Tasmania and Sir John Franklin (see recent thread).

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Kathleen
Date: 27 Jul 98 - 05:20 PM

Seven Nations does a good job on this song on their debut album.

Kathleen

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Kiwi
Date: 28 Jul 98 - 10:14 AM

Kathleen - Ah, someone else listens to Seven Nations. Question, though - do you know why they changed their name from Clan na Gael?

Also, I noticed that they leave out a couple of verses (a friend of mine sang it at a coffeehouse recently) - anyone know what they are?

Slán, Kiwi

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: ZORRO
Date: 28 Jul 98 - 05:28 PM

Hey Kiwi, why not just tell us and save us the time and effort? Thanks...

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Connor
Date: 19 Sep 98 - 03:21 PM

G'day Kiwi, are ye still after verses. I ken verses which begin with a. In 1803 b. At the mouth of the Foyle c. I cursed them tae hell d. Van Dieman's land Verse b is nae always recorded. Let us ken if ye want it. Oz

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Sep 98 - 04:58 PM

Connor, if the verses aren't here, we want 'em. Click here to see what's already in the database. Looks like we don't have the one about the mouth of the Foyle.
Is the second verse (In the rusty iron chains...) correct in the database, split up as it is?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: Lyr Add: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 19 Sep 98 - 08:34 PM

G'day,
Her's how it should look:-

BACK HOME IN DERRY

In 1803 we sailed out to sea,
Out from the sweet town of Derry
For Australia bound if we didn't all drown,
The marks of our fetters we carried
In the rusty iron chains we cried for our weans,
Our good women we left in sorrow.
As the mainsails unfurled our curses we hurled
At the English and thoughts of tomorrow.

Oh...................... I wish I was back home in Derry
Oh...................... I wish I was back home in Derry.

At the mouth of the Foyle Bade farewell to the soil
As down below decks we were lyin'
O'Doherty screamed wakened out of a dream
By a vision of bold Robert dyin'.
The sun burnt cruel as we dished out the gruel,
Dan O'Connor was down with a fever.
Sixty rebels today bound for Botany Bay,
How many will reach their receiver?

We cursed them to hell as our bow fought the swell,
Our ship danced like a moth in the firelight.
White horses rode high as the devil passed by,
Taking souls to Paddy's* by twilight.
Five weeks out to sea we were now forty-three,
We buried our comrades each morning.
In our own slime we were lost in the time,
Endless night without dawning.

Van Diemen's Land is a hell for a man
To live out his whole life in slavery.
Where the climate is raw and a gun makes the law,
Neither wind nor rain care for bravery.
Twenty years have gone by, I have ended my bond,
My comrades ghosts walk beside me.
A rebel I came, I'm still the same,
On the cold winds of night you will find me.

* short for Paddy's Purgatory.

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: alison
Date: 19 Sep 98 - 08:37 PM

Hi,

I've heard a couple of variations on the last verse. It can be sung as.....

My comrades ghosts walk behind me,....... and

On the cold winter's night you will find me.......

I've heard it done both ways.

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Benjamin Bodhra/nai/
Date: 20 Sep 98 - 09:50 AM

The Paddy's bit we always sing as Hades. that's the way Christy recorded it and teh way it is in the original poem by Bobby Sands. For those who don't know (this seems to come up in threads regularly) Bobby Sands wrote a poem called "The Voyage" which has got a stack of verses in it but not the chorus we sing, and Christy Moore arranged some of the verses, changing and amalgamating bits, and set them to the music of "The wreck of the Edmund Fitxgerald" by Gordon Lightfoot. There is an IRA/Sinn Fein/H-Block Hungerstrike page somewhere in cyberspace that talks about those who died during the strike in the Maze, and also has some of Sands' poetry, including "The Voyage" in full.

Of course not the only song that Christy does of Sands', MacIlhatton is also writtn by him.

BB

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Connor
Date: 20 Sep 98 - 11:32 AM

With a few minor variations it seems that Alan has covered things well. Ooroo, Connor

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: alison
Date: 21 Sep 98 - 02:51 AM

Hi,

I have heard it sung "taking souls to Paddy's",

and heard the singers saying that they are referring to Paddy's Purgatory....... right or wrong ..... it wasn't me who said it. so that's where the Paddy's bit comes in

Slainte

alison

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Big Mick
Date: 21 Sep 98 - 09:00 AM

The only thing I would add is that Bobby Sands, May He Rest In Peace, used to sing to his comrades on the blankets through the keyhole of his cell door in order to keep their spirits up as they went through the awful ordeal of "ceala/chan". This is an Irish Gaelic term for the custom of starving oneself to death on the doorstep of one's adversary. I am sure that all of the Celtic nations have a term for it. In Celtic society, one of the worst thing that could be said of someone is that they were inhospitable to guests. W.B. Yeats described it thusly in "The King's Threshold"

"He pleaded for his Poets rights. I said I was the King and all rights had their original fountain in some King. My Bishops, soldiers and makers of law shouted approval. But the Seanachain went forth, and from that hour to this, though there was good food and drink before him, has eaten nothing. He has chosen to die, refusing eat or drink. Disgrace upon me!! The common people, for all time, will raise a cry against the threshold, even though it be the King's."

In March of 1981, these 10 lads invoked ceala/chan and died on hunger strike.

Mickie Devine, Martin Hurson, Francis Hughes Joe McDonnell, Kieran Doherty, Patsy O'Hara Kevin Lynch, Ray McCreish, Tom McElroe Bobby Sands

God Be Good to them.

Mick

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Iason
Date: 22 Sep 98 - 10:10 AM

We strongly echo Mick's sentiments. May their deaths not be in vain, and may Ireland soon be a nation at peace and under Irish rule. May we wish the English all the best of bad luck and strife on the homefront as it attempts to deal with the results of it's financial and cultural raping of those countries whose people are now seeking sanctuary and support in England. May England sweetly and swiftly travel down the road to ruin.

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Pete M
Date: 22 Sep 98 - 05:09 PM

Iason,

your attitude is what, I am afraid, has killed thousands in Ireland over the years, and it will never know peace nor unity while this view prevails. Until we are ready to admit that those who support our cause are as likely to be murderers and criminals and those who oppose us honorable, there can never be true reconciliation.

Fortunately for Ireland, I believe your attitude is now held, apart from a very small minority, only by those who have never had any direct experience of the struggle.

Pete M

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: alison
Date: 22 Sep 98 - 08:37 PM

hi,

Can we leave the politcs out of this because we're not all going to agree. I've lived through all of this, never actually knew peace in my lifetime (not until the last two lots of it anyway..... let's hope it lasts this time)

Surely the object of this discussion is to appreciate a good song, (which this certainly is)..... so let's get back to that.

Slainte

alison

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Big Mick
Date: 22 Sep 98 - 11:30 PM

Lest I be misunderstood. I love this song because it is about honorable people fighting injustice against hopeless odds. They chose a very old custom, used by their people over centuries to combat this type of oppression.

I have always supported the just struggle of the Irish people to have one Ireland, undivided and free. But I must tell you, Iason, that we must never allow the struggle to be reduced to phrases and curses. When we dehumanize those that oppose our aims, we close the door on any peaceful, long term solution. When we do that, we condemn another generation of Irish children to experience that which alison so eloquently expresses. And we encourage the types of acts of brutal savagery that we recently saw in Omagh. The people of the North and the South of Ireland have spoken. If the Irish in America and other parts of the world are as interested in the future of the land of our parents as we say we are, then we will support their wishes with the same fervor that we have supported the armed struggle. "Tiocfaidh a/r la/" - Bobby Sands

So here's to a grand song that salutes brave people who wished for a free and peaceful Ireland. When this finally comes to the land which has given all of us, Irish born and Irish claimed, this marvellous culture that we celebrate, it will be in some measure due these brave lads.

"Life springs from death; and from the graves of patriot men and women spring living nations" Padraig Mac Piaras

Mick

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Sep 98 - 08:42 PM

With apologies to Alison, I would like to hear a discussion of the politics of the problems of Ireland. It's something that we in the rest of the world need to understand. I realize that it can be painful to talk about it, but people need to hear it.
Of course, I would hope that any such discussion would be friendly, peaceful, and reasonable, governed by logic and not by slogans and prejudice.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 23 Sep 98 - 08:50 PM

Joe- Re:"Of course, I would hope that any such discussion would be friendly, peaceful, and reasonable,governed by logic and not by slogans and prejudice."

When you have some spare cash, I have some shorefront property in Arizona you might wish to buy.

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Sep 98 - 08:55 PM

Well, Dick, I guess we have had more than our share of nastiness here lately. I hope it goes away. I prefer the friendly, civil tone of most of the discussions we've had in the past. I can't see how nastiness can accomplish anything worthwhile.
What harm is there in being good to each other?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Big Mick
Date: 23 Sep 98 - 10:50 PM

I would like to second both of you. Some time back I allowed myself to get sucked into some nastiness. I have regretted it since as I felt I had demeaned our marvellous creative community. I made an oath that I would not allow it to happen again.

alison, I have many Irish friends, a number of them from the North. Some feel as you do, others are strident supporters of the armed struggle. I know that most of the time, we 'catters prefer to stick to the music. But so much of the music of Ireland deals with the struggle, that it seems appropriate to have a discussion. Being raised in Belfast, you would be invaluable to that discussion. My own background is simply that I was raised in a very Republican emmigrant family, "raised on songs and stories, heroes of reknown" and I have been around Irish friends and relatives all my life. I could certainly add a different perspective to the discussion, but you were raised with the troubles. Give it some thought, OK?

And to all others, by its nature the subject is volatile. It need not be uncivil.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: alison
Date: 23 Sep 98 - 11:57 PM

Hi,

I have nothing against talking about the troubles at home. My problem is with the sort of comment above which only help to fuel the hatred that is always there, sometimes below the surface, sometimes not.

I personally do not care what category other people fall into. It shouldn't matter if they're protestant, catholic, buddhist, muslim, or bug-eyed alien they all have the right to be treated equally, and have the right to express their point of view. It's when that point of view is taken to be the only true and right one that I have the problem.

As Mick (I think) said earlier there are generations of kids in Ireland who have been brought up to be (at the very least) suspicious of the opposite side of the community. eg. don't trust him, he's a protestant / catholic. Until we start to build up trust in each other it's going to be very difficult to get anything accomplished.

I was one of the lucky ones, my family was not bigotted. I have friends both protestant and catholic. My sister and I attended a mixed (religion) school. I will admit that there were areas of Belfast that I would prefer not to go to, in case of trouble. This is not a good thing but it's just part of the nature of what was going on. People were very wary of each other, often you felt that you needed to be careful of what you said in case "someone was listening." Having said all that I find it's the same in most big cities... there are areas you just don't go to because they're "bad areas".

Having painted that picture, Belfast is a lovely city, it was a great place to grow up. There was very little in the way of street crime, kids were able to walk to school on their own or go to the park without fear of being abducted. I miss the friendliness of the people.

Don't apologise Joe, I don't mind having a discussion, it's the nastiness that it could bring out that I don't want.

Slainte

alison

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 24 Sep 98 - 05:29 PM

I'd like few things better than to be proven wrong about this.

Subject: RE: BACK HOME IN DERRY
From: Pete M
Date: 24 Sep 98 - 05:49 PM

Thank you for your understanding Alison I tried to avoid any statement which could be construed as partisan in my contribution as much from my knowledge of your origins as form the view that it would not help.

Mick, if everyone, not just in Ireland, had your strenghth of character and "rightness" to look beyond the political folk tales and myths they are taught when young, the world would be a better and safer place.

For what it's worth, I will add a few comments which may present a different view to the "official" line of either side.

Firstly back in the sixties (when you and I were young Maggie :-)), there were undoubted inequalities and persecution of the Catholic community. I and the vast majority of my peers, worked as actively against this as we did against Vietnam. I believe that the ground swell of political opinion would have seen these addressed to the satisfaction of the majority of Catholics, and it was for this reason that the IRA, very skilfully, and cynically, exploited protest marches to create a violent outcome. I say this on the basis of information that is in the public record and also from the personal recollections of Catholics who were actively involved at the time, and whom I count amongst my friends.

Similarly, the view of some "martyrs" held by those who grew up with them is, I know, at odds with the hagiographic view held by many Americans of Irish descent.

OK end of history lesson, the next bit is my personal opinion.

It is unfortunate but true, that the kind of person most effective in the kind situation which existed are those who in another time or place would gravitate to organised crime, Mafia etc. I am not suggesting that they do not necessarily, on either side, hold their beliefs sincerely, just that as I said above, that someone supports your cause, does not them make them a saint.

At the end of the day, the "armed struggle" and its counter by the protestants, boils down to the end justifying the means. If we accept that, then how can we condemn bombs in 747's, Oaklahoma state buildings; Agent orange; "ethnic cleansing" etc.? I believe you have the right to die for something you believe in, I do not believe you have the right to kill someone for being "different", or because an ethinic/cultural minority are percieved as being oppressed. I seem to remember around 30 million people dying 50 years ago because someone held those views.

Sorry if I've rambled on, I'm really not the best person to comment, but if anything has really depressed me recently, it was the reported intention of NORAID to continue funding violence in Northern Ireland despite as Mick has pointed out, the wishes of a majority of all Ireland; and after Iason's little effort I felt I had to say something.

Pete M