BS: US Flags at Half Staff?

Subject: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Sorcha
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 10:42 PM

All the flags in town are at half staff. Does anyone know why? I was told it was because our Governor decided to do it because some Lt. was killed in Iraq? Who? Anybody know? And, I thought only the Pres. of the US could order half staff for the National Flag.........

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 11:14 PM

The national flag is often flown at half staff in a town, or a state, to mark the death of a notable local personage. It doesn't have to be ordered by the President. You might check with your local newspaper...they'd probably know the reason.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 11:23 PM

Mine's flying upside down

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 11:34 PM

For Moynahan, perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Sorcha
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 11:42 PM

No, not Moynihan. I did find this, and apparently this was some Military person who died in Iraq; not a former official of Wyoming.....

"In the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any State, territory, or possession of the United States, the Governor of that State, territory, or possession may proclaim that the National flag shall be flown at half-staff."

I'm still confused. Will call newspaper tomorrow if it doesn't show up on the News.

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: open mike
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 11:53 PM

here if a fire fighter dies. fire statioins fly flag 1/2 staff.
is can be a local decision, and response to local death.

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 03 - 11:55 PM

It appears to be sending a defeatist message to the world.

It is not policy to fly flags a half-mast during a war unless an alumni of an immediate school or facility or village died....otherwise flags would fly half-mast throughout an entire war.

Find out who issued the "order" we can try them after the war...for aiding and abetting the enemy.

Watch out Sorcha - they'll scorch ya.

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 12:19 AM

A police department over on the coast is doing this because one of their officers was killed in Iraq today.

Otherwise, Guest is right (gee, I don't think I've ever said that before) Flying flags at half-staff in war is kind of pointless unless there's a very personal connection. What I wonder is what happened to draping buildings in black for mourning?

That's what would happen in the past.

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 12:24 AM

The flag flown upside down is an international signal for help. Blackcatter are you alright or are you saying we all need help (there'd be truth in that)? Barry

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 12:25 AM

Flying flags at half mast is a sign of respect accorded to any notable person during the day of the funeral. (even if you bury an enemy body it is a mark of decency) They may be burying a soldier from that State or Town who died in Iraq. Flying a flag upside down is disrespectfull; and is not truly a signal of distress. Imagine the French flag, Irish Flag.

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 01:30 AM

Foound this on google, Sorcha:

Flags will fly at half-staff today as family, friends and community members gather in Powell for funeral services honoring Marine 2nd Lt. Therrell Shane Childers.

Childers, whose parents moved to Powell in 1990, was shot and killed March 21 in southern Iraq. He was the first U.S. soldier killed in combat in the war there.

"Lt. Childers sacrificed his life for his country and the state should honor that, especially in light of his family's terrible loss," Wyoming Gov. Dave Freudenthal said Monday.

The governor, who plans to attend the funeral, asked that all state buildings fly flags at half-staff today in honor of Childers.

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 02:02 AM

Interesting. In Alaska, when a local or state figure dies the Alaska State flag is lowered. Only if the loss is a national one do they lower the federal one, and then they usually lower the state flag also.

On 9/11 I called the governor's office twice asking why the flags were not at half staff, that surely it was called for, especially since we are four hours behind the American east coast and the hijacks had happened hours before. The second time they found someone who told me that the governor always waits until the President proclaims the states' response.

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Sorcha
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 09:25 AM

Thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 12:02 PM

It wouldn't be a bad idea if in any country at war one flag in every town were kept at half-mast until it's over. Whatever the rights and wrongs, going to war means a kind of defeat.

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 12:13 PM

"Half staff", rather than ""half-mast" is a new one on me - is that the normal way of saying it in the USA?

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 04:29 PM

Half staff is fairly common here in western US, although you do hear the other as well. Those of us who are landlocked tend to think of "mast" as one of those sticks in the middle of a sail boat.

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 05:21 PM

I've always heard it half-mast.

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 06:44 PM

Half-staff at least doesn't sound like half-assed. :-)

_____________

I am flying my flag upside down as a statement that I feel our country is in distress. My dad did the same through much of the Vietnam War.

And just in case you're curious, no one has vandalized my home and yes, I do support our women and men who are in service. I just wish they'd come home.

Pax yall

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 06:48 PM

Half-Mast is the proper term

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 06:52 PM

Flying the flag upside down is clear enough to see with the Stars and Stripes. You'd need sharp eyes to spot it with a Union Jack, and you couldn't do it at all with a tricolour and lotsof other flags.

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: NicoleC
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 07:45 PM

Are you kidding? Most of the neighbors have their flag backwards or upside down out of ignorance. (You know, most flags come with *instructions.* Why it's so hard to read 'em, I don't understand.) Blackcatter probably fits right in if his local yokels are as yokel as my locals.

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 07:50 PM

flying the flag upside down is a distress signal....

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 08:23 PM

Having nothing to do with this thread except in reading kat's article.........Why do they say "shot and killed?" Wouldn't killed suffice? I notice they only use that phrase in the news whenit's a clean death like a shooting or a stabbing. I don't recall ever reading that "Smith was blown to hell and begone and killed."

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 10:04 PM

Spaw - it helps people know how they were killed. Our military is proving that being shot isn't the only way to be killed in war.


No one I've seen in Central Florida is flying their flag upside down (except me). What I do see is lazy people who are still flying the flag they bought after 9-11 (because they didn't own one before) and it's tattered and ripped and looks like hell. I wish the American Legion would start offering public service announcements to the proper care of flags. Many people even leave them out all night without the proper lighting. I've also seen them right next to and at the same height as those decorative banners for Hallowe'en, Easter, etc.

I currently own 4 American Flags. 1) A flag my dad purchased in 1932. 2) A flag purchased during the Bicentennial with the 13 star circular design. 3) A flag purchased in 1994 to remember the honor I had of working during the elections (at the same general time South Africa had it's first real elections) 4) a flag flown over the U.S. Congress.

By the way, I happen to have a collection of over 50 national flags and I fly them on the national holiday of each nation.

Consequently, my neighbors don't know what to think.

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 10:09 PM

I seem to remember reading that half staff is correct for land-based flags, half mast for ships...

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 10:13 PM

Ebbie - don't rise to the bait of GUEST - GUEST doesn't exist until someone acknowledges it.

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 10:34 PM

Blackcatter, I was responding to McGrath, Les B and katlaughing.

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Chip2447
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 11:39 PM

Flag protocol states that no flag should fly higher than the National Standard. If the U.S. is at half mast then all state flags should be half mast also...

Chip2447 (with more trivia)

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 12:41 PM

To beat this particular flag to shreds:

Kenneth G. Wilson (1923–). The Columbia Guide to Standard American English. 1993.

half-mast, half-staff

To honor someone who has died, a flag is flown at half-staff everywhere except on shipboard, where half-mast is the term, according to naval usage, at least. Nevertheless either half-mast or half-staff is Standard these days to describe any such recognition on land or sea.

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 12:47 PM

So if you have no mast and equally no staff or flagpole and you wanted to do this, if you ran your flag part way up a mule's tail, would that be called "half-assed?"

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Grab
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 01:47 PM

Blackcat:

Many people even leave them out all night without the proper lighting.

Why lighting?

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 01:51 PM

You have to illuminate the mule's ass........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 03:50 PM

Only in your case, Spaw.

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 10:39 PM

Grab, here's your answer:

The Flag Code states it is the universal custom to display the flag only from sunrise to sunset on buildings and on stationary flag staffs in the open. However, when a patriotic effect is desired, the flag may be displayed twenty-four hours a day if properly illuminated during the hours of darkness. (ref: Flag Code 6(a)) The American Legion interprets "proper illumination" as a light specifically placed to illuminate the flag (preferred) or having a light source sufficient to illuminate the flag so it is recognizable as such by the casual observer.

The U.S. Government typically flies the flag during daylight, with the general exception of memorials. There they are flown 24 day & night.

Go here for the complete U.S. Flag Code in .doc or .pdf form:

American Legion Flag Code


One of the most interesting parts of the code is the proper disposal of a flag - you burn it.

pax yall

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 10:50 PM

Are you sure that american Legion site is complete? I can't find anything in there about a lighted mule's ass.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 11:14 PM

hahhahhah

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 11:58 PM

I've ridden many an ass and I'll tell you, not of them were very light . . .



§ 171. Conduct during playing

During rendition of the national anthem when the flag is displayed, all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. Men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should render the military salute at the first note of the anthem and retain this position until the last note. When the flag is not displayed, those present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed there.


Gee - no where does it say you can start cheering during the next to the last line

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 12:01 AM

Q: What is the significance of displaying the flag at half-staff?

A: This gesture is a sign to indicate the nation mourns the death of an individual(s), such as death of the President or former President, Vice President, Supreme Court Justice, member of Congress, Secretary of an executive or military department, etc. Only the President of the United States or the Governor of the State may order the flag to be half-staffed. The honor and reverence accorded this solemn act is quickly becoming eroded by those individuals and agencies that display the flag at half-staff on inappropriate occasions without proper authority to do so. (ref: Flag Code 7(m))

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 06:16 AM

It seems there's an official ritual for everything in the USA! Seems to far exceed anything we've got back here. I'm not knocking it, I quite like rituals - but the impression we often get is that America is more laid back and relaxed about things like that, and it seems the reverse. I suppose it goes with the fact that the USA, far from being a "young country", has one of the oldest continuous systems of government in the world.

So there's half mast and half-staff - but though we talk about flagpoles, noone ever says half-pole. The way we use language is very arbitrary.

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 06:30 PM

Just like parking in a driveway and driving on the parkway?

While there's official rituals for a lot of things, no one is duty bound to follow them. I follow many of the rules whe it comes to the flag, because it is a symbol of something I hold dear and therefore, I should treat it with respect.

Everyone remember the flag shortage immediately after 9-11? 50 years ago, few people would have had to go out and buy a flag to show just how patriotic they were - they would just go to the closet drawer and pull out their flag. That's what annoys me - people these days are only patriotic when "it counts."

I've been flying a flag on ever national holiday since I had a place to do so. When I have lived in an apartment, I fly it in the window.

What did Thomas Paine say about the "sunshine patriots?"

pax yall

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 07:11 PM

Maybe if people in the USA were more obsessed with international sporting competitions, such as the (Soccer) World Cup, rather than domestic ones, more of you would have flags handy.

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 07:42 PM

Perhaps Kevin it's because we are a relatively new country that began with no traditions that these things become important. every state in the US has their own flag as well and we have other symbols as well such as the Bald Eagle as the National bird. every state has a bird, a state seal, state flower, state song(s), state everything.......Many states actually have state reptiles, mammals, fossil, rock, dirt, insect.........I'm serious here!!! Here ya' go Kevin......State Symbols of Ohio. Unreal huh?

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 07:55 PM

The interesting thing is that almost nobody flies state flags, except state offices. I don't even own a Florida flag (and would not fly it because of the red "x" which is supposed to represent the bars of the Confederate Battle flag. Until Florida (and several other states) remove this symbol, I have little interest in the flag.

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: raredance
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 12:18 AM

re: Sorcha's original question. I haven't seen Cheney for a few days.


rich r

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: The Walrus
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 05:51 AM

Blackcatter,

".... I don't even own a Florida flag (and would not fly it because of the red "x" which is supposed to represent the bars of the Confederate Battle flag..."

But there never was a "red x" in the "Confederate Battle Flag", it was a BLUE saltare with stars and border on a red field.
The red salaire (on white) is that of Saint Patrick (is there a big Irish connection with Florida?).

Back to "Half Mast/Staff"

Is there any guide as to what qualifies as "half mast"?
I was taught (many years ago) that a half mast flag should be one to two flag widths below its normal position, but I have seen half mast flags flown from 3/4 to, literally half way up the mast - in that case it was about a 1/3 hoist.
Anyone out there have any rules?

Walrus

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 02:51 PM

Hey Walrus,

Here's the history of the present flag:

A joint resolution of the legislature in 1899, approved by state voters in 1900, made our current State Flag the official banner of Florida. "The seal of the state, in diameter one-half the hoist, shall occupy the center of a white ground. Red bars, in width one-fifth the hoist, shall extend from each corner towards the center, to the outer rim of the seal."

Between 1868 and 1900, Florida's state flag consisted of a white field with the state seal in the center. During the late 1890s, Governor Francis P. Fleming suggested that a red cross be added, so that the banner did not appear to be a white flag of truce or surrender when hanging still on a flagpole.

-----------------

It is generally accepted the the red bars were adopted after reconstruction to "quietly" be a tribute to, and reminder of the Confederacy. True, it's not the same color, but many other southern states did something similar.

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 03:12 PM

Half staff means just that. Directly in the middle of the staff. The code requests that when raising the flag that it hoisted to the top them lowered to half staff. At the end of the day, the flag should once again be hoisted all the way up and them lowered.

On Memorial Day, flags should be flown at half staff until noon and then hoisted to the top.

Half staff is officially used to honor national service people, president, VP, surpeme justice, speaker of the house. Most of these recieve this honor whether or not they die in office.

State officials should only be honored with the state flag.

Subject: RE: BS: US Flags at Half Staff?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 03:14 PM

Alabama's flag also has the red bars and was adopted 5 years before Florida's was. The red bars in Alabama officially honor the CSA and Alabama's role in it.