Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel

Subject: Various Artists doing Dylan's Gospel
From: khandu
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 09:55 PM

Yesterday, April 1, was the release date of "Gotta Serve Somebody-the gospel songs of Bob Dylan". It features The Fairfield Four, Shirley Caesar, Aaron Neville, Mighty Clouds of Joy and others doing songs from "Slow Train Comin'" and "Saved".

It hasd not reached my local stores yet, but I heard a snippet from each song here

Some of the tunes are fantastic, some a bit "slicker" than I prefer, but, overall, I really liked what I heard. Some of the artists have taken a little liberty with Dylan's lyrics, even Dylan himself has redone the lyrics on "Change My Way of Thinking", the one song he performs on this collection.

The reason I bring all this up is because I love the two "gospel" albums he did, and I think I will love this one equally.

Now, my question...did anyone else "love" "Slow Train..." and "Saved", or am I it?

Ken

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 03 - 10:47 PM

Yeah, I like 'em a lot. I don't necessarily identify with that sort of dour, doctrinaire Christianity, but I still like the albums. Why? Because he was filled with passion, and he meant it. Powerful stuff, to be sure.

My spiritual inclinations are much less focused on judgement, and much more non-denominational than Dylan's were at that time...

I liked the 3 backup singers too. Marvelous stuff, I think.

- LH

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: GUEST,Celtaddict
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 12:13 AM

Dylan's best "gospel" song in my opinion is "Lay Down Your Weary Tune," which has all the passion and belief, but no judgment, no doctrine, just an enormous joy.

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 08:43 AM

Agreed. It's a masterpiece. "Every Grain of Sand" is also a superb spiritual. Plus, there are a whole bunch of spiritual parables on the album "John Wesley Harding" that have stood the test of time.

- LH

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: Mooh
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 09:03 AM

Me too.

I like Slow Train.

Drifting a bit...There's a House Of Blues "Songs Of Bob Dylan" cd which has Mavis Staples doing Gotta Serve Somebody on it. I find myself singing backup impulsively. Great stuff.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: Peter T.
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 10:57 AM

"Every Grain of Sand" is good. The rest are pretty dreary. He was almost always better at evoking than invoking. It is interesting that his overtly Christian songs use Christian and Biblical imagery far less imaginatively than the earlier songs. "Gates of Eden" and "All Along the Watchtower" are amazingly evocative. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 12:37 PM

I like them too and agree with Little Hawk that there was some powerful stuff on the John Wesley Harding lp as well. Particularly "Dear Lanlord" and "I Pity The Poor Immigrant".

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: Benjamin
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 04:27 PM

Slow Train and Blood on the Tracks are my two favorte Bob Dylan albums.

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: sed
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 05:05 PM

It's interesting to hear people complain about Robert Zimmermann's being judgemental in his Christian music but not in his topical music. His pre-Christian songs are quite full of his personal criticisms of society and of individuals while his Christian albums, if authentically Christian, would reflect the coming judgement of Christ as depicted by the Bible. Can't you see the difference? It's a very important distinction. I've never had copies of the "Christian" albums but have heard some of the songs here and there. That RZ left the church makes one wonder how saved he ever might have been. Might he have lost his interest in discipleship and then lost his salvation? It's an enigma wrapped in a riddle; who knows? I sure hope he gets back on track as the slow train is still comin'.

I know of one former minister who wrote and recorded Christian songs and later became an atheist organizer, songwriter and recording artists. It happens. My question is how sincere were the de-converted to begin with? I guess the devil works extra hard on the big name people. But he works on the rest of us as well. Thankfully God is always more powerful whether or not we align ourselves with Him.

Steve

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 05:39 PM

just curious:

Didn't Dylan get 'un-saved' un-born-again and return to pre-Christianity?

Robo

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: Peter T.
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 06:26 PM

Yeah, I see the distinction. In the pre-Christian songs, people create their own hells, and in the Christian one the sweet Jesus Christ gets to damn them to eternal hell fire. Sounds like a pretty important distinction to me!! By the way, was God responsible for Dylan going electric? If so, then smite Him, smite Him (but not with your expensive Martin)!!! yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 07:59 PM

Jesus said that unless a man be "born again", he cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. I believe this is not too hard to figure out...whenever a human being reaches a new realization about Life on any significant level, he IS born again, because he is in many ways a new being. Dylan has been reborn scores of times, maybe hundreds of times. So have most other thinking people.

Dylan did not "leave" the Church, he transcended it into a higher understanding than what that church could offer. He graduated from spiritual 4rth Grade, so to speak. I wonder when the church will catch up? Maybe never.

You want to read a great book about good and evil, sed? Try "People of the Lie(The Hope For Ending Human Evil)" by Scott Peck, M.D. It's available from Simon & Schuster. Quite enlightening.

- LH

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: khandu
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 09:25 PM

"Leaving the churh" does not mean one leaves his relationship with God. In fact, I have found that many of the "churches" are not the arenas in which to develope such a relationship.

Ken

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: khandu
Date: 03 Apr 03 - 09:41 PM

BTW, Sed (Steve), I was a minister for 13 years. I was sincere, in it not for the money, not for attention or recognition or "glory". I was in it because I believed in the message.

I still believe in the message as much as ever. I still believe in God and Jesus as much as ever. But I do not believe in "CHURCHianity" at all.

And, one more thing, I am as "saved" as anyone.

Ken

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: GUEST,Gern
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 10:31 AM

Talk about thread drift. Back to the question, I've been a Dylan fan since '63, although often with some chagrin and no antidote to people who think he stinks. I have not appreciated every turn of his career, but who could? Nonetheless, I think his 'gospel' albums were superior efforts. Although the lyrics were polemic and not to my orientation, he obviously was studying his scripture. SAVED is full of specific references and some thoughtful comment on this most overdiscussed theme. But, musically, these albums are among his best. I saw the SERVE SOMEBODY tour and dug the chorus work and some brilliant littly guy on melodic lead guitar who turned out to be Mark Knopfler. Those who can get by his stridency should revisit these albums, as well as SHOT OF LOVE.

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 12:13 PM

"Shot of Love" is a marvelous album. One of my favourites. Those who say that Bob "stinks" could only be referring to the cigarette residue, they couldn't possibly mean the music...unless...naw, nobody could be that witless! :-) Could they? Well, gee...maybe...

All together now...say: "Nukular" and say it like you mean it!

- LH

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: GUEST,Southguesterner
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 01:31 PM

I recall an album that came out in the late '60s. It was titled "Dylan Godpel" (or maybe "Gospel Dylan"). Way way way before BornagainBob went through his spiritual dillema of shot of love. Anyone ever heard that one? It emphasises the point that a good song with a lyric from the heart can cross over into the gospel realm without having to quote scripture.

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 04:37 PM

That is for sure. Any inspired writing has a spiritual basis, regardless of whether or not it is overtly "religious".

- LH

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: khandu
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 06:25 PM

No, Southguesterner, I have never heard of the collection of which you speak.

"Shot of Love" was an unusual album, and it was excellent. "Lenny Bruce" gets my vote for "weirdest Dylan song".

"Infidels" also had much Biblical connotations. I greatly appreciated the album.

I have noticed on almost every Dylan album I have listened to (all of them!), there are many spiritual/Biblical connotations. But the more pin-pointed ones ("Slow Train..." and "Saved") are definitely in my top-ten favorite Dylan collections.

Ken

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 06:59 PM

Kandu? What is weird about "Lenny Bruce"? Seems pretty straightforward to me.

- LH

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: khandu
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 08:06 PM

The arrangement. When I first heard it, it just struck me as quite odd. It still sounds quite odd to me. However, "weird" doesn't mean "bad". I really like the song.

Ken

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 08:46 PM

Oh, I see...

Last night I was listening to Joni Mitchell's "Blue" album (superb!) and Dylan's "Love and Theft". "Sugar Baby" is a very neat song, with a terrific chord structure. It's in "C" and uses an F minor quite a bit. Very nice arrangement.

- LH

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: sed
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 01:03 PM

Those were sincere questions I asked two days ago. Having been an agnostic from 1966 until 1991 I can understand the doubt about the value of what is confusing called 'the church.' By 'the church' I mean the community of believers in Christ who know that Jesus Christ is our only means of salvation. Being 'saved' means that our souls will spend eternity with Christ after our earth body is dead.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

[To those who are worried about being in the fourth grade...]

Matthew 18

1. At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
2. And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3. And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
4. Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5. And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
6. But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Once over the hurdle of disbelief the song of God is the sweetest you will ever hear.

Steve

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 12:44 AM

Agreed, Steve. I've been over the hurdle of disbelief for a very long time, having been a confirmed atheist until I was around 20 years old. I'm over 50 now.

But why do you assume that the Bible is the one and only reliable (and infallible) source of information about Jesus...and God? I certainly don't. Did someone tell you that it is? If so, why did you come to believe them? Craving simplicity?

I'm sure the men who wrote those verses you quote from would be quite gratified to know how seriously you take them after all this time. But what about the other men who wrote similarly valuable spiritual material in all the other great holy books of the World? Ever read them? What if Krishna, Buddha, and numerous other such figures ARE Christ, in another place and time, manifesting through another physical form (incarnation)? Surely the Christ is capable of such and more. Why would He come only once over the last many thousands of years to a suffering humanity, when He has always existed as an inner spiritual presence waiting within everyone, waiting for expression at any time if they simply let Him express?

To believe one holy book and deny all others is an arbitrary act. It's similar to speaking one language and denying all others as gibberish.

- LH

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: GUEST,celtaddict
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 11:49 PM

Little Hawk, you have put your finger on the essence of my personal beliefs, and also of Universalist Unitarianism.
The short form may be this:
"Many roads, one mountain."

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: GUEST,T-boy
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 08:04 AM

To get back to the thread title, check out the late great Peter Bellamy singing 'Death Is Not The End'.

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: Nathan in Texas
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 08:56 AM

LH,
Jesus was the one who claimed: "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." (John 14:6)

Seems pretty straightforward. Either He was telling the truth or lying.

C. S. Lewis put it this way:

"I am trying here to prevent anyone from saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him [Jesus Christ]: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept his claim to be God."

That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic -- on a level with a man who says he is a poached egg -- or else he would be the Devil of Hell.

You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God,: or else a madman or something worse .... You can shut him up for fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon; or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God. But let us not come up with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that option open to us. He did not intend to." ( The Case for Christianity)

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 09:35 AM

Correct, Nathan, he said ""I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." And he was NOT lying.

But, you have misunderstood what the Christ is. The Christ is an eternal Spirit, not an embodied form of a human being. When that Spirit is housed in a human body, as a human incarnation in a particular time and place...it SPEAKS through that human form and says:"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

That spirit spoke through Buddha, through Krishna, and through many others...since the dawn of time...in civilizations you probably haven't even heard of, and it will speak in futures you have not yet dreamt of...through other embodied forms...or within your own consciousness when you "go within".

Your mistake is confining the Christ to a single outward bodily expression in a single historical epoch. Not so.

As John wrote it, Christ spoke the truth...through the temporary vehicle which was the bodily form of the historical person Jesus. How else could He speak it but through those vocal chords in that moment? The Christ IS the only way to come unto the Father, and that Christ lives in you and me and everyone else right here and now.

Therefore I have no conflict with John's words in 14:6 on the subject.

- LH

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: sed
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 11:06 AM

I'm glad T-boy mentioned Dylan's great song: 'Death Is Not The End.'

Dear Little Hawk (and, of course, others)

Regarding your subtle advertisement for the religions of the world: the university mentality insists that we must obtain a general knowledge of everything and specific knowledge of nothing.

You wrote:

But why do you assume that the Bible is the one and only reliable (and infallible) source of information about Jesus...and God? I certainly don't. Did someone tell you that it is? If so, why did you come to believe them? Craving simplicity?

Did I say the Bible was that? No! Prayer is that two way communication with God Himself that helps me understand what the Bible says. Whenever I've had a problem understanding anything in the Bible or in life God has eventually helped me understand. This used to perplex me somewhat that God, in His own time, would explain to me in various ways what some perplexing Bible passage meant. Now prayer and dreams are like tools in my kit which I can use as necessary along with my main tool: the Holy Bible. Then there are the dreams and revelations which appear unbidden as gifts found along the path to my home.

To think that studying the Bible has anything to do with simplicity is 'simply' not true. The Bible is a very complex and multi-faceted book which is written on many levels for many purposes. It is a life companion for every step of the human journey. The metaphysics of Christ are profound. Try to prove me wrong if you'd like but at this point I don't perceive the need of any other source of information to completely understand the world as Christ would have me understand it.

If that seems ignorant then just remember that it is not your favor I seek. If learning about some other religion helps me reach those who need Jesus then I am happy to study it. Otherwise all my questions have already been answered, at least for now.

SS

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 11:48 PM

Well, that's cool with me, Steve, if that is what leads you to God. No problem. You are quite correct that prayer (and contemplation)...two way communication with God...is the source of real spiritual understanding. You're also correct that the Bible is "a very complex and multi-faceted book which is written on many levels for many purposes. It is a life companion for every step of the human journey." Agreed. You are also correct that "The metaphysics of Christ are profound." Again, I agree entirely.

I also find these same things to be present and self-evident in all the other great religions, but maybe you don't. That's also cool, because you have a right to choose the path that suits you. I was just trying to explain my own understanding of such things, so you would understand me. I was brought up as an atheist, became a Universalist (non-denominational believer), and studied many faiths. I see God in all great spiritual teachings, and I am equally at home with Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Taoists, traditional Native Americans, Jews, Bahais, Catholics, Protestants, humanists....and atheists who are honest and of good intention toward others. Anyone who accepts me, I accept them, just as Christ accepted the gentiles (much to the distress of many people in his own religious community at the time.) Christ was a Jew, but he accepted all people. He didn't place one group above another. He even forgave those who conspired to kill him. That's a powerful example! That is a Christ I can believe in and be joyful about.

"You're can be in my dream if I can be in yours..." Bob Dylan said that.

- LH

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: Nathan in Texas
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 09:04 AM

LH,
While I agree that there is wisdom to be found in all religions, I don't think the bible allows for the universality that you espouse.

In I Timothy 2:3, Paul states: For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

He doesn't say the Spirit of the Christ who inhabited the man Jesus.


Similarly, In Acts 4: 11-12, Peter, speaking of Jesus, says   This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12   Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

The idea that all religions are equally from God seems to me to be a construct of man, even somewhat patronizing as if "It's okay for you to believe in One Way, but we more enlightened folk recognize that all ways lead to God." (I'm not speaking of you personally, but the whole concept.)

One thing, I think we can agree on is that God reveals Himself to those who sincerly seek Him.

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 02:29 PM

Agreed, Nathan.

I think Paul was simply speaking from what he was consciously aware of, that's all. He was aware of Jesus (who was indeed the Christ...in the general historical era Paul lived in). Paul was not aware of Buddha, Krishna, or various others. So he naturally wrote from his own direct experience, as anyone does. I think God inspires people to write great religious texts (and to do all manner of useful things), but those people are always limited in expression by their own conscious awareness, which is shaped by their personal history, their time, and the culture they grew up in. Thus the person, whom God uses as a scribe is a tool with somewhat limited possibilities, and cannot be counted on to simply be infallible in what he says.

Many religious writings sound exclusive, and that has led to endless wars and misunderstandings between religious groups, who all worship essentially the same God.

This has occurred in the way I described in my first paragraph, not because God is exclusive or plays favourites.

I think the very religious impulse itself is a natural result of the unseen connection between man and God. Therefore, all religions are "from God", yes, but to say that any one of them is infallible, is "the best", or is exclusively true is indicative of human prejudice, not God's love.

Matter of fact, everything is from God, in a certain sense, although everything might not be pleasant...but that's another very big discussion.

I think you may find some oddities and inconsistencies in all holy books, the Bible included. This is not due to any error by God, but it is due to the limitations and errors of the imperfect human beings who have served as scribes for the Divine. We all have free will, Paul included, we all do the best we can, and we all fall short of perfection.

People in religions don't want to consider that, because they want the psychological reassurance that their particular book is perfect and infallible. I regard no book as necessarily infallible, but I regard some books as very valuable for spiritual guidance, and the Bible is among those.

- LH

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: alanabit
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 03:33 PM

Which leads us on to the next problem. When someone can claim an "authoritative text", they can also claim to be acting on behalf of a higher authority. This is why claiming or even recognising religious authority is such a very dangerous precedent. It is the precedent which has endowed so many tyrannies with a bogus claim to be "moral".
I personally do not like most of Dylan's overtly evangelical works - especially the first two "religious" albums. I like those in which he talks about his experiences - religious or otherwise - in more general or allegorical terms. I think "Infidels" is stunning. I would never describe myself as a Christian in the terms of what the Christian church requires - which is probably why "Slow Train Coming" and "Saved" annoyed me so much. No doubting the man's sincerity, but I guess we got off the train at different stations.

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: Peter T.
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 05:38 PM

Drowning people is not much of a solution to the child abuse problem -- and other similar reactions to the posting of scripture here. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 11:18 PM

I'm not quite sure what you're referring to, Peter... :-)

But I certainly agree with what alanabit said. No one can claim exclusive authority on the basis of a book, nor do they have the right to claim such authority over anything but themselves, as far as I'm concerned. If they do claim it, watch out! Each man's religion (or philosophy) is necessarily unique in nature. And that's good.

- LH

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: sed
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 12:35 PM

I'm pretty exhausted right now. It seems that I've been restored to my songwriter role after a long dry period and the juices seem to be taken from other activities like understanding other people.

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 01:15 PM

Oh, hi there, Steve. I was surprised to see this thread reappear. What have you been writing about?

- LH

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: GUEST,morning bell
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 01:40 PM

Blech! All this talk about religion makes me ill.   Can't we just say Dylan did the gospels because they're beautiful instead of saying he's christian, he's jewish and that we're all going to hell because we don't believe?   I certainly love the sound of gospel but the message can be saved for the sheep.

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: PoppaGator
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 03:59 PM

Isn't *all* music-making an effort to rise above this wicked world and to work towards experiencing a heightened spiritual state?

Of course, none of us are perfect (even Bobby Z), so the words we use to give voice to our music are usually insufficiently specific about this aspect of our quest, or sometimes (but much less often) too much so.

That said, I'm loking forward to hearing this collection. I always liked "Gotta Serve Somebody," and I also fondly recall hearing Aaron Neville (a vocal stylist who can't NOT sound like church) doing some less-explicitly-religous early Dylan -- "Masters of War," maybe? Whatever it was, it was *too* tough...

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 05:13 PM

Hey, morning bell...that's what I say about:

CNN

the State Department

G.W.Bush

the 6 O'Clock News

commercial messages

radio top 40

Colin Powell

southern Baptists

Billy Graham

Jimmy Swaggart

and all the friggin' fundamentalists...

"The message can be saved for the sheep!"

Just what makes you think religion begins and ends with churches and the Bible? Even atheists have their chosen gods and their sacred cows to bow down to.

- LH

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 19 Apr 03 - 06:32 AM

Dear morning bell. Baaaaaaah...

Jerry

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: GUEST,fairwthrbum
Date: 20 Apr 03 - 03:44 AM

excellent last post little hawk. that list, in one way or another is exactly what is dragging the majority of "sheep" away from thinking about the age old question of where we came from. everyone is entitled to draw their own parameters of their relationship with the divine but when drawn from strict dogma and nothing more it becomes a very dangerous and impersonal endeavor for my liking.

my personal approach could very well be construed as agnostic because i believe it to be a true statement. that being said i also believe in the divine in one way or another. more of a spirtual incarnation i suspect but do not really want to confine my mind with such specifics.   after all, i could be wrong!

in essence i have left myself an open ended ticket and find it to be quite the builder of faith as opposed to my catholic up-bringing which gave me the moral toolbox, if you will, but little else.

the quote about becoming childlike to obtain the gates of heaven was new to me but i found it very reasuring in the sense that it is the exact conclusion i came to on my own. saying i just don't know and fighting like hell to maintain my childlike awe at the concept of divinity. zen in a word. i wish i could say that it came overnight but it took years.

now that i'm done with my little diatribe on personal beliefs i would like to say that dylan's gospel period is hardly my favorite but it's ok. i would credit dear landlord as being the end all of dylan's spiritual songs. it isn't too often that you get to hear someone else have a heartfelt conversation with the divine.

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 20 Apr 03 - 11:29 PM

Everyone knows my opinion, but I have to add

Diddle like Dollars

What else is ther to say.

If you think his rehash of borrowed music is entertaining - ooh kayy, but pulease do not insult my newsites by slithering the idea that he IS christian.

The other point, who cares, I dont nor do I listen to any of it - so I would never play it.

I listen to the Iraq war reports, the interesting stuff like who got what and when are we going to finish off the rest of it....

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Apr 03 - 11:08 AM

As far as to what IS Christian, everybody's got their own strong opinion on that. You will note that the many Christian churches have been disagreeing on it (often violently) ever since, oh, the year 100 A.D. or thereabouts...

George Bush seems to think he's Christian, for example. The Pope is also assumed to be Christian (by some). They disagreed radically regarding the necessity of a war or Iraq.

God is a pre-Christian concept in human history, but you'd never hear that if you hang out with Baptists, would you?

- LH

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: sed
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 03:47 PM

Praise God! I am happy to praise God. If you think that's odd, okay.
When we stand before God there will be no worthy excuse. He will be our prosecution and our defense and He will have the evidence so if you're willing to take that chance no circumstance will bring you up when He sends you down. Bon Yoyage! Jesus made clear what happened to the rich man who went to hell. Lazarus was poor on earth and comfortable in heaven. Of course if you don't believe in the Bible then that story is meaningless to you. Happy Day today and tomorrow you pay: hey hey hey...... if you wanna take that chance.....okay.okay.okay. People tried to help you and you wouldn't be helped. And you still have a choice. It's not too late to change your mind. I sure hope you will. I hate to see anybody suffer. God invented music so it's no wonder that it is misused by people who hate him.

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 29 Apr 03 - 04:07 PM

Horus.

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: GUEST,ritchie
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 12:32 PM

where's GARGOYLE when you really need him ? I have a paticular fondness for Dylan, acoustic,electric ,saint, sinner whatever !

as for religous songs they are ok it's usually the people singing them that puts me off. Unless it's a negro spirital song. Try and compare someone singing a blues song (the devils music) and then a gospel song ...it can't be done ..can it ?

Ritchie (somewhat tongue in cheek)

Subject: RE: Various Artist doing Dylan's Gospel
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 02:17 PM

It's not God's judgement I'm worried about, Sed. I trust God implicitly. It's people's judgement that worries me.

- LH