Blues chord sequences

Subject: Blues chord sequences
From: Phillip
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 07:37 AM

I am writing a story which I need some help with, on chord sequences.

I have a young girl who plays guitar - central European folk stuff - who is introduced to the blues. What I need is the kind of chord sequences she might play in something "four-square, plodding and pedestrian." And what she might play in the blues - Delta blues really, if it matters.

And I need to know if something like this: "and then you bend the seventh", has any meaning whatsoever. The person showing her is a good guitar player, and he shows her something you can do to "make the guitar cry and weep."

Any help greatly appreciated.

Phillip

Subject: RE: Blues chord sequences
From: Spartacus
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 10:35 AM

It would take way too long for you to understand this completely.
But, for short term...
Blues is usually played in the keys of E, A,and D. There are plenty of songs in the keys of G, C, and F too.

Most blues songs follow the 1-4-5 music theory.
the one is represents the key a song is in. SO if a song is in the key of E...
       1 2 3 4 5 6 7
       E F G A B C D
The one is E, the four is A, and the five is B.

"bending the seventh" I think, is a reference to taking any chord, adding the seventh note, and bending it. (pulling or pushing on the string to create more tension and create a different note)

Delta blues in particluar uses alot of open and dropped tunings in order to achieve alternating bass rhythms. Check out Son House, Charlie Patton or Lightning Hopkins for the best examples....

Good luck
Spartacus

Subject: RE: Blues chord sequences
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 12:32 PM

...the flat fifth is a good one to bend in blues, usually the flat fifth in the tonic (or "root") chord. And you bend it up a half step to the fifth. Example: you're playing blues in the key of A and you're playing the A chord. You would bend Eb up to E.

"Guitar For Dummies" (is there a topic in this series of books which is not covered??)had a handy-dandy little chart for good or "typical" notes to bend for different chord positions or "boxes."

Subject: RE: Blues chord sequences
From: C-flat
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 05:32 PM

Example: you're playing blues in the key of A and you're playing the A chord. You would bend Eb up to
If you're playing the blues in A then I would have thought you would be bending the D up towards the E rather than the Eb. Those bluesy notes are found somewhere in between.
C-flat(who only knows the minor pentatonic scale)

Subject: RE: Blues chord sequences
From: C-flat
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 06:04 PM

I suppose, (to answer part of Phillips question), the bit about "making the guitar cry and weep", when bending notes in the blues scale, a popular technique is to bend a string up a whole tone and pick the string several times as you let the bend out.
For example; Blues in E ; bend the note of A up a tone to B, or as I said earlier; In A ; bend D up to E.
This technique of playing the note as you release the bend can create a sort of sobbing mournful sound.
It's more difficult to write about than to play but I hope that helps a little!
C-flat.

Subject: RE: Blues chord sequences
From: Mudlark
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 07:50 PM

I'm a hopeless guitar player, but bending a note has always meant to me pulling the string, as it's plucked, sideways, causing it to wail up, then back to originial note...ooooOOOOoooo....as the string is slowly pulled back to original position.

Phillip, as a writer I would suggest you find a blues guitarist to show you what you want to write about. It will give you a better feel...and not make real guitarists cringe if you get it slightly wrong. (My husband was, in his youth, a championship target shooter...and always dismissed police procedural novels/detective stories that didn't get the guns right.)

Subject: RE: Blues chord sequences
From: Tweed
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 09:47 PM

That girl needs a little slide guitar fer the ultimate in mournful (or sometimes joyful) sounds.
*"Glory, Glory!"*

And with these blues notes, tell her she can bend just about any of em that she wants to just as long as she puts them in their rightful places!

Yerz,
Tweed

Subject: RE: Blues chord sequences
From: Rolfyboy6
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 09:51 PM

I second the motion for you to do more research on the blues and the blues scale. The blues isn't as simple as the uninformed seem to think. Additional topics to think about are the "Blues scale" which is the minor pentatonic. The blues typically has "blue notes" which are flatted thirds, and sevenths and occaisional slightly flatted fourths. Additional scalar things to think about include the modern addition (thanks T-Bone Walker) of the second scale degree as a "ninth". The truly emerging Delta Blues before the war had many deviations and alterations from the standard European 'tempered'scale (as did Appalachain music). The inclusion of a few buzz words only in your writings will work against you.

Places to start are:
"Blues You Can Use" by John Ganapes, guitar method book Musicroom.com

History:
"Deep Blues" by Robert Palmer Amazon: Deep Blues

"Land Where The Blues Began" by Alan Lomax amazon: Land Where

Listening to understand the blues scale (and in terms of the stuff you're writing about): Son House, a classic great of the early period. Clearer than some and easier to start with. amazon: Delta Blues
Almost anything by Lightnin' Hopkins, true griot-poet of the blues.amazon: Lightnin'

having recommended all this I really must second the notion that you should find a blues player to ask questions of.

Subject: RE: Blues chord sequences
From: Tweed
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 10:04 PM

Mebbe all that is so Rolfy, but I'll bet you that neither Charlie Patton nor Booker White could tell you what a flatted third or a ninth was. I think blues can't be played from a sheet of music. I don't believe there is any way to write some of that stuff those old guys did on paper. It would seem about as possible as drawing a picture of a prayer.

Subject: RE: Blues chord sequences
From: Rolfyboy6
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 10:18 PM

Quite true. That's why I suggested some CDs and seconded the Mudlark motion that Phillip find a blues player to ask questions of.

I am just a touch impatient with the idea that the early greats were unlearned about music. Son House was extensively educated at church music schools and was long in church music programs. He only took up the blues at the age of 26 and mastered the guitar in only two years because he already knew music.

Charly Patton was nephew/cousin of the Chatmon Family who had a string band for decades (the younger generation became the Mississippi Sheiks) and Charley had extensive schooling.

Bukka White knew a lot of music theory.

Subject: RE: Blues chord sequences
From: M.Ted
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 10:45 PM

I'm with you all the way, Rolfyboy6--a lot of folks today try to justify their ignorance of music theory and their inability to read music by claiming that "real" folk musicians didn't know any of that stuff----tain't necessarily so!

Subject: RE: Blues chord sequences
From: Tweed
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 10:46 PM

So you say, Blasphemer and Charlatan! Show me their Julliard diplomas and evidence of degree!
Show me their tab and music notations. Where are these relics? Who has possession of Bukka White's music theory portfolio? Dick Waterman? Pshaww!
Their music came from inside, and is as holy as Psalms. You know it's true, admit it and set yoreself free!

Subject: RE: Blues chord sequences
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 11:05 PM

Your attempt is lost... before it has begun.

A good writer can only communicate from that which they know, intrinsi-cat-ly, within their own, immediate, soul.

Phillip Until YOU have attempted, in your most free-bile way to replicate what your heroine is experiencing...it will never ring-true...it will always "feel" vicarious....spoken through someone, through someone, through someone-else.

Sincerely
Gargoyle

The BLUES ain't difficult...try it...you might like it and perhaps, give up writing for a noble and prophitable profession such as musician.

Hell - you might also consider cutting into left your testical if you have one every 28 days, after a three-day-vodka-binge, to discover what PMS and a period are.

Subject: RE: Blues chord sequences
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 11:09 PM

Mr. Tweed...my reply is to the originator...not you...I am

Full agreement

with your whip-scaled-tongue.

Sincerely,

Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Blues chord sequences
From: Tweed
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 11:29 PM

Dammit, you do have a way with the words Mr. Gargoyle!

Yerz,
Tweed

Subject: RE: Blues chord sequences
From: Rolfyboy6
Date: 04 Apr 03 - 11:47 PM

Hey Gargle, what was that?

Subject: RE: Blues chord sequences
From: GUEST,the blues lady
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 01:14 AM

story sounds familiar........ do you think in his story this young girl is going to help an old blues musician leave the old folks home and head out across country while he teaches her how to play the blues....eventually she helps him get back his soul that he sold at the cross roads by mixing her European folk roots with her new found blues knowledge resulting in more people believing the "crossroads" myth and taking tour buses to Mississippi?

Subject: RE: Blues chord sequences
From: GUEST,passi' throo
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 01:30 AM

If you are truly writing this story, Put the blues parts on hold until you come across someone you can talk to in the flesh, who plays the blues, and has been immersed in the blues. Let yourself fall into his or her world. Better yet, get a guitar and get said blues player sgive you some lessons. Your writing will be much better.

Subject: RE: Blues chord sequences
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 10:26 AM

Well danged! Look at all these Tweezerins over here scratchin' in the Catbox!

Well, this is my two cents, though ya might give me 3 cents in change.

Now, I know that if you tell Sparky Rucker that I said this he'll not only deny it but he'll probably take me aside for a *little Talk* that next time we're together but...

I learnt that danged blues from Sparky, who learnt 'em from Rev. Guy Davis and a few otherinz and, well, when the Colonal hisseff ( Sparley) gets taliing theory he confuzerates his own self. Then after about a minute of it he just looks at ya and says, "Heck, I ain't sure what that chord is, but you can get you a chord chart oif ya really want to know"... and then...

He goes back to just showin' ya' stuff and trying to explainerate what he's doing witgh real technical percisssion like, "Ahhh, ya' put this finger here and this other one there..."

But, hey, it worked for me 'cause I don't have any theory either and like Sparky once told me, "Hey, Bobert, one day you'll just get it. Blues is a feeling. It's like riding a bicycle. Once you got it, you got it..."

Well, I really hate to be the one who has to come in with this alternative theory but I reckon Mayor Tweezer started it so if there's gonna be a duct tapin', get him!

Bluesman Bobert

Subject: RE: Blues chord sequences
From: Marion
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 11:15 AM

Phillip, you might consider posting the relevant parts of your first draft here at Mudcat when you've written it, and letting the blues nitpickers (which I mean in the nicest way of course) tell you if there's anything wrong with it.

Marion

Subject: RE: Blues chord sequences
From: Frankham
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 11:34 AM

Phillip,

The most basic chord sequence in the blues is something like this.

I////|/////|////|I7////|
IV////|////|I////|I////|
V7////|////|I//-IV//|I//V7//|

This can be translated into the key of E, a common one for blues.

E////|////|////|E7////|
A////|////|E////|////|
B7////|////|E//A//|E//B7//|

The last two bars is what is known as a "turnaround". You turn the chords around to go back to the first bar.

This is commonly called the 12 bar blues.

It's usually three lines.   The first line is stated in the singing.
The second line is repeated so that the blue singer can have time to think of the third line. Then the third line ends with a rhyme for the first two lines.

The problem is that most blues players in the tradition will not always stick to it. The may play an 11 and a half bar blues or a thirteen bar blues. It's amazing but they stay together in playing this.

The note customarilly bent to make the guitar cry is the seventh degree of the scale. Sometimes you take the sixth note of the scale and bend it up to the seventh by pulling the guitar string sideways.
Sometimes you take the seventh note of the scale and bend it up a half step. There are various ways to do this. But the important thing to remember is that the seventh is really the flatted seventh and not the actual seventh note of a major scale.

The blues scale looks something like this.

1,2,b3,4,b5,5,b7,7 and 8. The b2 is rarely used. The 6th note of the scale is commonly used but the b3,b5 and the b7 are the essential blues notes of the scale that give the "mode" it's color.

Sometimes the b6 is used if you bend it upward from the 5.
(These numbers represent scale tones).

The Delta blues is the langorous, slow blues that sometimes has the feeling of flamenco singing. (The so-called "deep song" or cante hondo.) This is different than the more "ragtime" sounding Piedmont blues.

Son House, John Lee Hooker, Lightning Hopkins, B.B. King are close to the Delta tradition. Mississippi John Hurt, Brownie McGhee, Furry Lewis, would be more in the Piedmont tradition but many blues artist can do both and cross over such as Big Bill Broonzy.

As to the controversy regarding whether blues musicians bother with theory, it depends on how you define the blues. If you have a narrow definition of it, then the more "country" or "folk" aspects are intuitive and not theoretical. But if you allow for the blues to be broader based such as found in early jazz, swing or even Charlie Parker in Be-bop, then some theory has to be used. One comment about theory though that musicians often forget. It often comes after the fact. A great musician comes along and plays something and then someone makes up a theory about it.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Blues chord sequences
From: CraigS
Date: 05 Apr 03 - 06:46 PM

If you bend the seventh, you're usually bending it up to the tonic. That's a lot of whammy to put on if you're holding the chord at the same time, even with super slinkies. If you want a trite phrase, try "hammer the third", because lots of blues involve hammering the third when you put the chord on.

Subject: RE: Blues chord sequences
From: GUEST,Phillip
Date: 06 Apr 03 - 12:44 AM

Phew!

Well, I woke up this morning and thought I should see if this place has proved as excellent a source of info as ever. And, of course, it has. I can't comment on most of the replies except to say thanks!

But Blues Lady's plot is way off. (Might use it some other time though... Tee hee.)

Subject: RE: Blues chord sequences
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Apr 03 - 05:12 PM

...If you're playing the blues in A then I would have thought you would be bending the D up towards the E rather than the Eb

Dunno C-flat ... just going by what my ears tell me. I copy-cat a lot by playing along, trying to match pitch-for-pitch, and I notice that in a lot of the runs I'm copying, it sounds to me like the guitarist starts from the flatted fifth and bends up to the fifth, a 'modest' bend, admittedly. In my moderate approach do I seldom start from a whole step below and bend up a whole step, realizing that it's not uncommon to do that. I just don't seem to hear it on the record that way.

Not a blues run, but because of its 'isolation' in the passage and its almost universal familiarity, it makes it easy to hear an example I cite to back up my personal experience: the first note of Jimmy Page's solo in the 'fast part' of Stairway To Heaven. (Page did give a nod - in more ways than one - on occasion, to the blues.)

From his post, FrankHam cites the b5 as being contained within the blues scale. I've gleaned from a few readings that the pentatonic minor scale only contains five notes, excluding the octave: (In the key of A) A;C;D;E;G (in other words: 1;b3;4;5;b7).

Another scale that I've seen referred to as the 'blues' scale, or the 'pentatonic blues' scale, adds a b5 to the mix. I wasn't aware that the maj2 and the maj7 intervals were considered part of any 'blues' scale.

Subject: RE: Blues chord sequences
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 08 Apr 03 - 05:10 AM

Tweed said, I don't believe there is any way to write some of that stuff those old guys did on paper. Well, now, that would certainly be true for the little beagle puppy I had when I was young. But I think even the roughest old Delta bluesmen was better trained than that, wouldn't you say?   

Aloha,
Mark
(Sorry, Tweed, couldn't help it...)