Irish Fiddle School Help

Subject: Irish Fiddle School Help
From: Oaklet
Date: 17 Apr 03 - 02:30 PM

I wondered if you can help. I can do most of the notes but want to understand how to actually play, understand and feel all the tunes that I adore. I also want to expand my technique and repertoire by ear without resorting to the dots. (Sorry but the dots are learned by a different part of my brain which forgets stuff). It occured to me that intensive exposure to tuition would be a start. I have a couple of weeks in the summer and wondered if any of you could recommend a traditional music school offering fiddle tuition in the UK or Ireland in July or August. I would really like to hear of your experinces - good or bad; or any recommendations. I am sort of ok on the violin and understand music a bit.

I hope you can help.

Subject: RE: Irish Fiddle School Help
From: GUEST,Sharon G
Date: 17 Apr 03 - 06:58 PM

I have not been to school in England or Ireland, but I have been to Gaelic Roots in Boston. I'd highly recommend it as great place to start. It would be fully booked by now though...

A young friend of mine went to both Willie Clancy and Joe Mooney summer schools last summer- he & his mom indicated that the instructional experience was better at the Joe Mooney school- less crowded. But I have no direct personal experience.

Good luck...
Sharon

Subject: RE: Irish Fiddle School Help
From: Alba
Date: 17 Apr 03 - 07:01 PM

There is an Irish Music Summer school held in Miltown Malbay, Co.Clare,Ireland.
It is the Willie Clancy Summer School and runs from the 5th July till 13th July.
It has Fiddling classes as well as many other aspects of Irish Music .There is an article regarding this years school at:
http:/www.setdancing.net/wess
Sorry I can't get the "blue clinky" to work!... challenged in that area Im afraid.
The price is around 80 euro I think. It was a few years since I taught at the school, but you can learn a lot in the time your there as well as getting to some great sessions in and around Miltown Malbay.
Hope this helps.
A

Subject: RE: Irish Fiddle School Help
From: Felipa
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 02:58 AM

there are summer music schools all over Ireland
Tobercurry, Sligo week after Miltown Malby

new one started in Dingle last summer, contact Aoife Ní Shéaghdha
[e-mail]

If you like Donegal style contact Caoimhin Mac Aoidh [e-mail]

Achill Island summer school, still going but I don't know if the hammy @tinet.ie contact for summer 2000 is still operative. I got it from the archives of http://listserv.heanet.ie/irtrad-l.html (Irish music e-mail list)

There was a thread about a residential (rather than festival-type) school in County Clare, but I keep forgetting the name of the place - even though they sent me a leaflet last week.

most summer schools concentrate on tunes,on learning tunes by ear, with only a little work on technique.

Subject: RE: Irish Fiddle School Help
From: Felipa
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 03:02 AM

the name I forgot was Boghill
at that thread you will also find URLs for other summer schools and some comments from people who have attended them

Subject: RE: Irish Fiddle School Help
From: smallpiper
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 08:00 AM

Oakley you cad - and all this really good advice too. I suggest that you act on some of it just because it was given freely and honestly. When you are in ireland recording your next CD you might want to take in a fiddle school! And leave the Fresians alone!

Subject: RE: Irish Fiddle School Help
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 09:30 AM

Ah ha, get a Suzuki Teacher and or buy and learn to use a Metronome.
Learn at least the basic Bow Drills - takes about 3 months ... You must also be able to both keep to the Metronome beats and direct the Bow consistently at aprx 90 degrees to the strings and roughly between the bridge and fingerboard end; a feat that is far harder than a casual reader could imagine!

So you could then usefully learn two simple Bowlicks. These are documented in many Books in circulation but to complete my wee rant I here repeat my understanding of them.

The first - obvious to a teacher but making exactly zero sense to a cold newbie, so pay attention -

O'Kief's Slide

Slide Bowing is often simplified into long down for two beats and short sharp up for one beat, the entire repeated by 4 in the bar of 12/8ths.

The New Policeman/Scartaglen etc Reel

The second - IMHO far harder - for the simple ( an understatement if ever there was one ) Sliabh Luachra Reels so often taught at this point, is the above reversed but with some horrendous reservations.

Long slow ups for 3 beats with EQUALBOWMOVEMENT downs for one beat; makes the downbow loud and ugly - it's supposed to do that so doncha worry bout the squak, that passes.

However the count is ALWAYS one beat before the bar begins - IOW always play one note in the upbow before you begin a tune ( since once began the rest follows the pattern 8/12 3 456 7 8/12 etc ). After you get one or two bars of the above tune done it seems as if the techinque is mistakenly overrated, oversold and overcomplcated. A bigger mistake you'll never make; since only on some tunes and these are few and hard to find. On others where there are quarter notes in such irritating places that the whole thing seems to fall apart.

So how do we deal with uncooperative Quarter Notes ( taking two beats eg 12 or 34 duhhh )? You should already know the answer if you'd done the slide studies. I will tell you instead of making you grovel. Ignore the dots and turn yer bow mid note.

Hoping ( praying ) that you find a live teacher ...

Subject: RE: Irish Fiddle School Help
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 09:40 AM

I was going to suggest finding out who is going to be the fiddle tutor for the Folkworks summer school in Durham, but I just checked and its someone from Shetland (Chris Stout). So that's probably not a lot of use to you if you want to concentrate solely on Irish fiddle.

Subject: RE: Irish Fiddle School Help
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 09:46 AM

Ooopz corrections

However the count is ALWAYS one beat before the bar begins - IOW always play one note in the upbow before you begin
a tune ( since once began the rest follows the pattern 8/12 3 456 7 8/12 etc ). After you get one or two bars of the above tune
done it seems as if the techinque is mistakenly overrated, oversold and overcomplcated. A bigger mistake you'll never make;
since only on some tunes and these are few and hard to find. On others where there are quarter notes in such irritating places
that the whole thing seems to fall apart, you have to ignore the dots and turning the bow split the quarter note.

Also to add if Chris Stout is a trained Fiddler - ie has already done the basics with a qualified teacher - he would be more that able to help Oakley but it would be far far better that they sign up with their local Violin teaher/school.

Subject: RE: Irish Fiddle School Help
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 10:53 AM

Weeeel, I have been playing Irish fiddle for years and have no idea what sorefingers is talking about. And, Oakley is hardly a "newbie" to fiddling...............

Subject: RE: Irish Fiddle School Help
From: Oaklet
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 12:42 PM

Thanks for all the advice. I will try to understand Sorefingers as best I can but I might have to lie down first. Good on yer mate! At the moment I am thinking about either Dingle or Tobercurry. Sorch, I have been doing the violin thing for long enough to know that there is more to this than doing the notes which is what I do. The more I hear, the more I try emulate and copy, which isn't doing it for me I'm afraid. To my great shame, I could have got all this sorted years ago when I was offered a job, accommodation and tutelage in Shannon with a great player. Every time I think of this, I writhe in remembered agony and actually hear myself declining the offer in favour of the shit job and girlfriend in the bloody West Midlands. At age 18, there were more important things, apparently. Anyone got a time machine? Anyway, that's for the Oakley regret file. I'd love to hear more of your experiences, so please keep the comments coming whilst I beat myself about the head with stout piece of wood with a nail in it.

Subject: RE: Irish Fiddle School Help
From: GUEST,forty two
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 01:43 PM

Try the Glencollomcille fiddle week in west Donegal. First week in August I think

Subject: RE: Irish Fiddle School Help
From: Felipa
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 02:32 PM

by the way, I don't usually put e-mail addresses on threads, but these were addresses given out at Ir-Trad-L as contacts for summer schools. Now, don't forget to look at the Boghill thread for other information.

Subject: RE: Irish Fiddle School Help
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 05:16 PM

Well Ok .. my efforts look complicated.

Can't tell you that much since I am and always was 100 percent Guitar mad, but over the years picked up the odd fiddle tune on the elbow exerciser.

Subject: RE: Irish Fiddle School Help
From: smallpiper
Date: 18 Apr 03 - 06:18 PM

Ah Oakley my appologies I thought you were taking the pee now I realise what you mean and I wish you luck. Sorry about that old chap!

Subject: RE: Irish Fiddle School Help
From: NicoleC
Date: 19 Apr 03 - 11:55 AM

Oakley, it sounds like the missing piece to get you musically rolling is the rythmic sense of different types of pieces. I think you'll get more out the the school if you understand that *before* you go.

You won't get it from the dots, because the score would become hopelessly complex to communicate what is really a simple rythmic pattern. Places where the notes drap and where they bounce, which beats are emphasized, etc. You can get the basic theory from music books and stuff online; then I'd spend some time listening to music that says what it is: "So-and-So's Hornpipe," "The ____ Jig," etc. Try and play along with the beat (don't worry about the notes for now), and get the feel. one... AND {two} AND one... AND {two}.

I think it's give you a leg up, but really you have to hear it to get it.