czeltic roots

Subject: czeltic roots
From: cockney
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 06:38 AM

I heard something on BBC radio 4 this morning about a celtic festival in czecoslavakia called bellring or something. Apparantly this part of Europe was originally (3000 years ago) Celtic before being invaded by the Slavs. The former communist regimes in this suppressed any remnants of celtic culture. Now they are celebrating their Celtic roots openly!!!

Anybody got any more info?

Subject: RE: czeltic roots
From: stevethesqueeze
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 06:45 AM

Mind you you know , some academics doubt whether a cohesive group of celtic people really existed. some feel its just a way of describing iron age peoples who had similar cultures. I don't know my self.....

Subject: RE: czeltic roots
From: GUEST,fretless
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 09:19 AM

"bellring" was probably Beltane (Beltaine, Belltaine, Bealtaine, Beltain, Beltine, Bealteine, Bealtuinn, Boaldyn), a Celtic pagan diety whose special day was celebrated on May 1. To judge from the variations in Beltaine's name, the deities main attribute was an inability to spell.

Other hot days in the Celtic pagan calendar were/are the solstices, November 1 (becomes Hallowe'en and All Saints' Day), and February 1 (becomes Ground Hog's Day).

Appropriate early Celtic activities activities on these days included getting together with a bunch of your tribal buddies and conducting human sacrifices.

Enjoy the holiday.

Subject: RE: czeltic roots
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 09:22 AM

All those celtic societies seemed to end up being invaded by someone else. Nobody could accuse the celts of being unable to organise a piss-up in a brewery--in fact they were very good at it---but unfortunately they were completely unable to organise anything else.

Subject: RE: czeltic roots
From: cockney
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 09:29 AM

Fretless Your're right it was Beltine not Belring - I was still half asleep y'know!

Subject: RE: czeltic roots
From: Bearheart
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 10:39 AM

There is an excellent book on Celtic culture which explores the Celts in Europe (Hungary, Austria, etc) called The Celtic World, editied by Miranda Green. The edition I have, published by Routledge and reprinted 1996, includes information on the Celts in Eastern Europe (chapter 30, by Elizabeth Jerem). This is a scholarly work with lots of pictures of artifacts etc.
The book is 800 plus pages and covers origins, art, religion and a host of other topics, with essays by many different scholars.

Bekki

Subject: RE: czeltic roots
From: open mike
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 11:11 AM

there must be a festival in august too
they were quarterly...like the solstices
and equinoxes. I wonder why they were not
on the 21st of the month when the celestial
events are, rather than on the first of the
month of gregorain calendar?

Subject: RE: czeltic roots
From: Nerd
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 11:20 AM

The Celts did arise in what is now Czech territory, but it was a very long time ago! The Celts since moved westwards and eastwards, and established communities as far apart as Galicia (spain) and Galatia (Turkey). Unfortunately, they were essentially pushed out by Germanic, Dacian and Roman groups, and ended up where they live today: Ireland, Britain, and places colonized or settled by Irish or British people (This includes Brittany, which started out as 5th-6th century settlements of British refugees).

It is true that historians and archaeologists are divided as to whether these early groups were identifiably "Celtic," because "Celtic" today is a linguistic designation, and these people left almost no writing. From what we can determine from place names, and from the comments of Classical travelers, these people were related to the ones who later spoke Celtic languages. That's the best we can say definitively.

In any case, there was no Celtic culture left in the Czech republic for the communist regimes to suppress, unless you want to count the odd place-name! It became trendy in the 1970s to call yourself "Celtic," especially in folk music circles, so every country tried to jump on the bandwagon. Like Galicia, which has very little cultural similarity (and almost no linguistic links) to other Celtic countries, the Czechs want a piece of the Celtic music action!

I'm not saying this won't be a good festival. For one thing, they could get the top groups from Celtic countries. For another, they might hold it at an interesting archaeological site, or provide directions to one. That's where you'll see real "Czeltic" culture!

Subject: RE: czeltic roots
From: mexican
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 11:21 AM

Of course we mexicans can also claim celtic roots!!!

Subject: RE: czeltic roots
From: GUEST,maire-aine, not at home
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 03:40 PM

The August festival is Lughnasa, as in Dancing At....., the play by Brian Friel.

Subject: RE: czeltic roots
From: GUEST,fretless
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 04:57 PM

Bearheart, You're right about the quality of Miranda Green's book. She will be speaking at the Smithsonian in Washington DC on Saturday, June 21. Announced topic is the origins of summer solstice festivals (http://residentassociates.org/com/solstice.asp). I'll be the bearded guy in the audience. Join us if you're in town.

Subject: RE: czeltic roots
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 05:12 PM

No such country these days as czecoslavakia, or even czechoslovakia.

Subject: RE: czeltic roots
From: mexican
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 07:02 PM

A shame 'cos it soundz pretty mexican. Mex Chechz maybe?

Subject: RE: czeltic roots
From: Alba
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 07:27 PM

There are "Highland Games" held in the Czech Republic in August in a town called Zamek near Prague.
Full tilt Pipebands. Highland dancing, Athletics, Folk Music and of course the manditory Ceilidh at the end of the day! Happens at the end of August. The things that you didn't know till someone asks a question! I was looking for a mention of a Beltane Festival in the Czech Republic and up that popped!!
I agree Bekki, The Celtic World by Miranda Green is an amazing book I wish I could come to the Smithonian to hear her speak in June, but alas too far and time limited:>)
A

Subject: RE: czeltic roots
From: Sliding Down The Bannister At My Auntie's House
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 07:29 PM

the plot thickens

Subject: RE: czeltic roots
From: Bearheart
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 08:06 PM

I'll be teaching at a festival in Va on the Solstice called Witches Heal. Probably to far south to get to the lecture comfortably, and I don't know my teaching schedule. But would be interested to know where else she might be lecturing in the near future.

By the way there are other ways to distinguish Celts besides the way they talk. There is an interesting book called "The Mummies of Urum Chi" about the work done in Western China on the mummified remains of (proto?) Celtic people found there. The dating on the find is I think about 3000 years ago. Clearly tall red/sandy haired people wearing what look like early tartans. The woman who wrote the book is a specialist in textiles and discusses the development of textiles in various parts of the world that are believed to be Celtic migratory settlements. Worth looking at. The photos are amazing. Also the photos of people who are likely their descendents. Definitely not Mongolian/Chinese peoples. Whatever else you might say about them those folks got around...

Bekki

Subject: RE: czeltic roots
From: Alba
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 08:35 PM

Bekki I saw a documentery a while back about Mummies found in the desert in China in the 80's. I have added the link about them. Is this the same discovery as you mentioned? I found this Documentary fascinating.


http://www.discovery.com/stories/history/desertmummies/desertmummies.html

Subject: RE: czeltic roots
From: Bearheart
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 09:04 PM

Yes that is the excavation. Unfortunately none of the pictures n the site show the primative tartan fabrics I mentioned, but thebook I mention above should be available from libraries.

And the book is a fascinating read...

Bekki

Subject: RE: czeltic roots
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Apr 03 - 09:09 PM

"tall red/sandy haired people " - red hair in Ireland is believed to have come from the Vikings rather than being "Celtic".

Subject: RE: czeltic roots
From: GUEST,Plonker
Date: 01 May 03 - 06:17 AM

They also have a load of Bluegrass festivals too.

Subject: RE: czeltic roots
From: greg stephens
Date: 01 May 03 - 06:22 AM

Judging by the National Geographic magazine, irish tourist board publications, and all films about Ireland or Scotland, everyone in those areas has red hair and freckles.Interesting that this also extends to China.But not apparently to Wales(also considered by many to be "Celtic") but peopled exclusively by small, dark-haired and sexy coal miners.

Subject: RE: czeltic roots
From: GUEST,Pat Cooksey.
Date: 01 May 03 - 06:56 AM

There are remains of many settlements and burial grounds from the BOII, a Celtic tribe who lived in Bohemia around 500 BC, and susequently migrated south and west, a Claddagh ring from this time was unearthed in Hallstat in Austria, where there is also a salt mine dating from this period. In July I play with Sean Cannon at the opening of a cycle route along part of the Celtic Way, in Bad Nauheim, north of Frankfurt, a former trading route of the Celts.

Subject: RE: czeltic roots
From: Giac
Date: 01 May 03 - 07:56 AM

I dunno, mexican, but if you turn that around -- Chechz Mex, it could be marketed as a snack at festivals.

~;o)

Subject: RE: czeltic roots
From: GUEST,Hannnes.
Date: 01 May 03 - 04:57 PM

When in July do you play in Bad Nauheim, it is very close to
my home.

Subject: RE: czeltic roots
From: greg stephens
Date: 01 May 03 - 06:13 PM

Gradually Celticistan expands to cover vast areas, with plenty of historical backing. Galicia and Galatia slipped in early. Surprisingly Denmark has resisted for a long time. Cosidering it was inhabited by a tribe called the Cimbri(according to Roman writers) it is surprisng it has not been totally taken over by the bodhran and low-D whistle. It always surprises me that plentiful recordings exist of northern European traditional folk music exist, which sound lovely and generally pretty much what you'ld expect in terms of their geographical position England sounds fairly close to Ireland, miles away from Galicia. But their modern "folk" or "roots" groups tend to sound ...well, you know the kind of thing.