BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia

Subject: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 May 03 - 01:23 AM

I found it hard to believe that this has been going on and very sad. The students who are making a change for a unified prom are to be commended, imo. The full story is HERE:

By ELLIOTT MINOR, Associated Press Writer

ALBANY, Ga. - A year after holding their first integrated prom, some students at Taylor County High School have decided to again hold a separate, private party for whites only.
       While many whites say they still plan to attend next week's integrated prom, the decision to hold the whites-only prom this Friday saddened senior Gerica McCrary, who helped organize last year's dance.
       "I cried," said McCrary, who is black. "The black juniors said, 'Our prom is open to everyone. If you want to come, come.'"
       Juniors are in charge of planning the prom each year and last year they decided to have just one dance — the first integrated prom in 31 years in the rural Georgia county 150 miles south of Atlanta.
       Until then, parents and students organized separate proms for whites and blacks after school officials stopped sponsoring dances, in part because they wanted to avoid problems arising from interracial dating.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: kendall
Date: 02 May 03 - 04:54 AM

It was only a few years ago that the principal of a South Carolina school announced that if anyone came to the prom with a member of another race, he would cancel the prom.
So much for local control of education.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 02 May 03 - 06:21 AM

In a school district in California, Latinos demanded and got a prom separate from the Anglos. I remember the story from a couple of years ago, but I have forgotten the details.
Social separation is hard to get away from in areas where there are two large groups with a distinct difference between them. The differences take time to be resolved and careful solutions by those in authority.

In my city, more and more students are entering private, or charter schools. These schools are encouraged by the Provincial government. Separation is by income level and intelligence quotients, but since immigrants generally have smaller incomes as well as more difficulty in passing entrance requirements, a high degree of racial separation results. Catholic and non-Catholic students have had separate schools for many years. As would be expected, the non-Catholic public school system is suffering the most from loss of students.

Segregation of one type or another is alive and well.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Peter T.
Date: 02 May 03 - 03:34 PM

I know whose prom will rock more. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: MarkS
Date: 02 May 03 - 03:54 PM

But we are making some progress, as evidenced by the fact that we are discussing it and denouncing it. Within my lifetime, the thought of a segregated anything would have been accepted as a given.
I suspect that within a few generations the notion of segregation will be thought of as an oddball custom from the dark ages, much like corsets and prohibition are thought of today.
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: PoppaGator
Date: 02 May 03 - 04:17 PM

This morning's New Orleans Times-Picayune (Friday 5/2/03) had a prominently featured story on the first integrated prom at St. James High School.

That's a public, not parochial school -- St. James Parish is a rural area in South Louisiana, well outside New Orleans. Civil "parishes" in Louisiana are the equivalent of "counties" in the other 49 states. The fact that a single high school serves the entire parish/county should give some idea of just how rural an area we're talking about.

I suppose it's bad news that they had separate black and white proms up into the 21st century (through last year), but good news that they finally united. As usual in these cases, the kids have been anxious to finally intgegrate while adults have been the regressive force trying to preseve the "traditions" of the bad old days.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 02 May 03 - 04:22 PM

Darkness and ignorance...

Like children afraid of the dark....

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Ed.
Date: 02 May 03 - 05:41 PM

I'm sorry if I'm being dim here, but in the UK such prejudice would be against the law.

Of course anyone can hold a 'private party' and invite whoever they wish. Is that what's happening here?

We have our 'Race Relations' acts which seem to work pretty well (though I'm sure some would disagree with me on that)

How does US law deal with such things?

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 02 May 03 - 05:51 PM

Right, they get around it by not having school sponsorship. But its apparently more obtructionsist than that as well. Amazing.

"Public schools in the rural South ignored federal orders to desegregate for decades. Taylor County did not allow blacks and whites to sit in the same classrooms until 16 years after the 1954 Supreme Court ruling in Brown vs. the Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas, which declared segregated schools unconstitutional.

Many rural Georgia high schools didn't integrate until the 1970s. After that, many school officials stopped sponsoring proms, in part because of the fear of interracial dating. "

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 02 May 03 - 05:53 PM

oh, the cite sorry:
http://www.cnn.com/2002/fyi/teachers.ednews/04/22/integrated.prom.ap/

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: John Hindsill
Date: 02 May 03 - 08:20 PM

I read about this in the LA Times a day or two ago and shook my head in sadness and disbelief. As a person who lived among Blacks and Asian descendants from 6th grade on, I have never understood such idiocy.

A few weeks ago, also in the Times, there was a story about an enclave in southern Africa that is so White that they will not allow non-Whites in even as day laborers or household help.

Lord, help us!

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: kendall
Date: 02 May 03 - 09:20 PM

All hatred is based in fear.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: CarolC
Date: 02 May 03 - 10:00 PM

Georgia's a really quirky place. Columbus, where we live, is a very international city, even though it's not very big. We had dinner this evening out on the sidewalk in the artsy-fartsy part of town while a classical guitarist provided some lovely music for our entertainment. Inside the restaurant, there was a lady dressed in fish-net stockings, hotpants, and a bustier, as a walking advertisement for an upcoming "Rocky Horror Picture Show" event.

Taylor County is pretty close to here. We saw the story on our local news. I see signs around town that race relations are in the process of healing, although it doesn't look to me like folks have completely figured it all out yet. Traditions seem to die hard among the people who were born and raised in this area, but it's kind of easy not to be too effected by that in Columbus since a large percentage of the people who live here come from a lot of other places (all over the world). I haven't really spent any amount of time in the more rural areas. It sounds like they still have ways to go yet.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Mr Happy
Date: 02 May 03 - 10:48 PM

if they don't want interacial dating- they should do the segregation by gender- not race.

have all boys proms, any ethnic group welcome- similarly all girl proms.

they could be structured as practice for stag or hen nights.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 02 May 03 - 10:54 PM

Oh geez, I have to go and live in Atlanta for 5 months. How will I EVER keep my mouth shut?

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: CarolC
Date: 02 May 03 - 11:25 PM

I just saw an update on the local news. The reporters did their best to embarass the people heading into the "Whites only" prom (which was held here in Columbus) by interviewing them and asking them if they didn't consider what they were doing to be racist. The students didn't come out of the encounter looking too good. Neither did the company that owns the place where it was held.

GUEST,pdc, I think if you speak up about it when you're in Atlanta, you'll be preaching to the choir. Atlanta and Taylor County may be geographically close, but culturally, they're worlds apart.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Louie Roy
Date: 03 May 03 - 11:05 AM

Since this prom is being held in a public school in all fairness to the public ,the students the school the Principal should cancel the Prom and then the school board should adopt a strict rule that in the future this type of bigotry will no longer be tolerated in this school.This type of bullshit has gone on far to long.Louie Roy

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: CarolC
Date: 03 May 03 - 11:10 AM

Loui Roy, it was held in a private facility about 50 miles away from the school. The school doesn't sponsor any proms.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 04 May 03 - 09:27 PM

LaughKat - your Wymoaning sojourn left you out of touch - what a vicarious life you lead. Its about finances NOT the twisted "dirty secret" your mind imagines.

Q - RIGHT ON!!!

Latino proms have been a part of the USA's Southwestern culture for at least 15 years that I know of.

The Latino Prom - is NOT a sanctioned Associated Student Body school sponsored activity. It is organized by the parents for their children.

Its main feature is its low cost. ASB Prom Bids today begin at 150.00 per couple. The formal tux and gown are added on, then dinner, and sometimes a limo. Per couple the cost frequently exceeds $500.00. For immigrant families, on low incomes with multiple children and....sometimes children with children the cost is excessive.

The Latino Prom is held at a local "hall." The dress is "fancy/nice" NOT FORMAL, therefore, the cousin's Quincinera dress or the black funeral jacket or sports-coat and tie are just fine. The parents cook, an uncle DJ's, the students decorate. Think of it as your "grand-parents" spring-fling. It is fun, it is reasonable, it builds community. The cost is around $50.00 per couple and "putting on the Ritz" is frowned upon. At some high-school the Latino Prom exceeds the attendance at the Junior Senior Prom by two and even three fold.

Why are you such a racist LaughKat?

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 May 03 - 10:20 PM

That's the biggest laugh I've had in days, GregGarg. Once again your love for me has blinded you. But, of course, that's the norm for some of you in SoCal.

Thanks, everyone else for your sane and interesting comments.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: CarolC
Date: 04 May 03 - 11:19 PM

The money factor doesn't apply in this case Gargoyle. Most of the students who went to the "Whites only" prom are also attending the prom that is being held for both Blacks and Whites. So I guess they'll be paying double the amount of the students who will be attending only the mixed prom. And the Whites only prom looked like a pretty posh affair, complete with stretch limos and a fairly fancy looking location.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Willie-O
Date: 05 May 03 - 09:11 AM

"they wanted to avoid problems arising from interracial dating"...

Ummm, the problems arise, not from interracial dating, but from other peoples' bigoted attitudes towards interracial dating. I'm surprised AP ran that as an alleged "factual" statement.

W-O

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: PeteBoom
Date: 05 May 03 - 10:22 AM

Nah.... ya want to cause a stir at a prom? Hold the prom in the same fancy hotel where there is a piping and drumming clinic being hosted. All the instructors were in their respective band uniforms (for band players) or other highland attire for soloists. The formal bit wraps up Saturday night, we head to the hotel bar where a private room is set aside, and we consume mass quantities of adult beverages (the youngsters consume mass quantities of Coke/iced tea/whatever). Formal photos are going on just outside the glass doors leading into the lobby - and they notice that there are a PILE of kilted individuals... absolute silence when a couple of my coleagues escorted a couple of lovely young ladies back to their festivities. One fellow had a striking resemblence to Tom Cruise. (Actual statement heard in the lobby afterward: "I did not know Tom Cruise was in town. Why was he dressed that way?")

Cheers -

Pete

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: EJ
Date: 05 May 03 - 10:29 AM

Any group of people have the right to segregate themselves from the mass. I applaud the white students for having the balls (sorry ladies) to stand up for their rights. By acts of Congress we are all thrown together in schools, restaurants, neighbors, etc. Who says that we can't pick and choose when we are willing to pay for the opportunity... Too many whites integrate themselves and congregate with the races to say "What a good citizen I am". Go ahead, I prefer my own kind. IT IS MY CHOICE AND MY RIGHT!

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Peg
Date: 05 May 03 - 10:29 AM

I don't understand why kids need to have a limo and an expensive dinner to attend the prom...we just got the kid with the drivers' license to chauffeur us; or, when we were too young, our parents.

It's completely out of control, the amount of money kids seem to think they have to spend on this event...

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: CarolC
Date: 05 May 03 - 10:42 AM

I have to admit that I don't really understand what's going on with this prom. When they interviewed the students going in, some of them said that the Black students had been invited or that they (the White students) had invited their Black friends to come, some of them said they would be meeting their black friends afterwards for an "after-prom party", and some of them said, about the "Whites only" prom, "it's a tradition".

About the ones who said that Black students had been invited, I found myself thinking they probably weren't telling the truth or that there was a catch of some kind that would prevent the Black students from attending even if they had been invited. But none of it makes much sense to me anyway. The South is a complicated place, and I'm not from here. Maybe I'll never really understand.

JtS says he saw a lot more overtly racist behavior in Cincinnati when he lived there, than what he sees here in Georgia. I've been thinking I see much more subtle signs of racism, but I found out recently that some of what I've been seeing is the way people in the South behave toward each other generally, regardless of race.

I spent over a decade living in a county in Maryland that was so racist, there just weren't any Blacks living there at all, and very few people belonging to other minorities. If they moved into the county, the local people just made them so miserable, they moved right back out again. So all of the proms in that county were "Whites only".

I think that racism is probably as alive and well here in Georgia as most other parts of the US. Whether or not racism is a bigger problem here than other parts of the country, I honestly can't say.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 May 03 - 11:48 AM

It is all so sad. The world is so much more interesting when we see its many colors and traditions.

Right on, Willie my friend. Interracial dating is not a problem, only racists are a problem.

EJ, you are correct. You do have the right to do what you want. But can't you see what a shame it is to isolate oneself from others just because they are different looking? I would not allow my child to attend this under any circumstance. Why? Because it perpetuates a myth, and an evil. We should look for what we have in common with one another, and celebrate that which is different. And as far as who my daughters date, or dated. I never cared about the color of their skin, their religion, or what part of the area they lived in. What I wanted to know was how they treated my daughter, what their values and plans were, what kind of a human being they were. It always worked out.

To discuss this as if there were any legitimacy to an exclusionary event based on "color" is to waste ones time. Never speak truth to a lie.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: sed
Date: 05 May 03 - 11:54 AM

Something similar to this happened in Randolph County, Alabama several years ago. My homestead is located in the northern part of that county, about 15 miles from the county seat of Wedowee. The high school burned mysteriously but was rebuilt, brand new. The principal who threatened to ban the interracial prom was soon promoted by popular election to superintendent of schools. After less than one term he retired.

I believe the best thing we can do in a situation like this is to be the best neighbor we can be. Temporary fixes temporarily empower people no better prepared for power than the ones who previously abused them. Progress is very slow if it even exists. Having grown up in the suburbs of Birmingham, Alabama I can't see that there has been any progress at all. Is US society any better now than it was in 1965? Only Jesus gives me peace and hope. I can only trust Him. Everything else reminds me of the last days of the tower of Babel.

God grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, to courage to change what I can and the wisdom to know the difference.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 05 May 03 - 11:55 AM

Discrimination is always a part of these proms, except, perhaps, in small towns. After a short appearance at the official prom, the graduates separate into groups at private functions.

In Canada, Catholic and "public" high schools are separate (each given its own tax base) so the first separation is on the basis of religion. Another separation (for those so-inclined) is also on the basis of religion, some attending one or more Jewish schools. There was agitation for a Muslim school, but I don't know if it was ever set-up.
Another level is made up of those attending private or charter schools- some of these are "Christian" schools supported by various faiths, other are aimed at higher academic standards (some quite expensive).
My city has over 20% visible minorities. The children of some of these groups will not be allowed to attend school proms by their parents, for religious and cultural reasons.

All of these graduates will have to learn to associate and work with each other but only after graduation.

The U. S. systems have many faults, but I wonder if Canada's "Multiculturalism" is going in the wrong direction.
As I stated before, segregation is alive and well.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: EJ
Date: 05 May 03 - 01:29 PM

Big Mick...I isolate myself (whenever possible) to avoid black and latino language, work ethics, morality, welfare adhesion, etc... My children attended elite private schools for the same reasons and so they did not have to be held behind by lowered standards that have taken over the cess pools you call public schools. Call me what you will or even strike this post. But I still have SOME rights and until even these are taken away from me by acts of Congress I WILL live MY life as I see fit. And, thankfully, I CAN afford to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: CarolC
Date: 05 May 03 - 01:33 PM

I guess you're probably doing the public schools a favor by keeping your kids out of them then, EJ. I feel sorry for your kids, though.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 May 03 - 01:43 PM

EJ, I am afraid that, in my opinion, you suffer from not being able to see clearly. I do not mean this as a perjorative, rather an observation. It comes from being misdirected by a racist line of thinking perpetuated on us by those with an agenda. The problem isn't one of color, but rather of economics. 150 years ago, in the USA, it was my people that were looked upon in this manner. At various times, it was the Germans, Poles, Chinese, Mexicans, etc. Equating the problem in public schools with color, instead of funding and education levels, allows those whose agenda it is to destroy those same schools, to flourish. In my family we were taught to fight injustice. Why should the color of ones skin, or the amount of income in ones family, determine the quality of ones education in a public school? You are mixing up the problems and then dealing with them in a way that makes you comfortable. It isn't color, but color is being used to justify action. That is racism. Just the very fact that these kids are using phrases like "It's tradition" to justify a racist act shows how shielding them from one another is wrong. I am sure they are lovely kids, raised by decent folks,...............who can't see the damage done to them and that they are passing on.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: EJ
Date: 05 May 03 - 02:07 PM

Big Mick...In my family we were taught to rise above the masses (which we did). We never mistreated anyone along the way, we sidestepped and avoided them. Interaction is inevitable but we don't have to go out of our way to do so.

CarolC...All my children are very prominent professionals who have earned their credentials by hard work and determination and by adhering to the family code. WE DO NOT have to associate with the masses the way most of you seem to want to do. As my old Daddy (the Colonel) always told us as we were coming up, "Watch who you associate with. If you play with shit, you are bound to get it on you." Enough said.

To the rest of you...Opinions are like assholes. Everyone is entitled to one.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: CarolC
Date: 05 May 03 - 02:20 PM

Like I said, EJ, you probably did a lot of people a favor by keeping your kids out of the public schools. But I still feel sorry for your kids. I say this as someone who has Black and Hispanic family members, whom you have just described as "shit".

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 May 03 - 02:38 PM

No, Carol, IMO, he did not. He simply says that he is careful with whom he interacts. But what I believe he cannot see is that by virtue of his "avoidance" he is practicing and teaching benign racism.

EJ, my belief is that one stands for something by virtue of action or inaction. It seems to me that when you speak in the terms that you are, that you taught your children (and were taught)an "us/them" kind of mentality. I am not calling you a Nazi, but I must use the example of Nazi Germany and the holocaust to demonstrate one of the dangers of that type of thinking. Folks allowed themselves to fall into this type of thinking. In time it desensitived them to the fact that their Jewish neighbors were people like them. Once the benign dehumanization started, it was an easy leap to turn away when the trains rolled by. I don't mean to oversimplify, but this is the problem one gets into when they allow their children to be taught that somehow "they" are different. That is why, when it comes to these issues, I believe that "rising above the masses" would be best expressed by standing for principles like understanding a diverse culture and world.

Nuff said.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: EJ
Date: 05 May 03 - 02:49 PM

Big Mick...The Nazis were totally wrong in their assessment of the Jews who have proven to be industrious, hardworking, taxpaying citizens of the world. The Jews were exterminated because THEY were superior to the Germans in all aspects of intellectual and cultural life. The people that I avoid are just the opposite of Jewry, Just the opposite. They cannot benefit me one iota and the contributions they make are minimal with very little social benefit. Face it, you cannot make a case.

CarolC..I feel sorrow for you. It must be hard.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 May 03 - 02:53 PM

Now you have proven yourself to be arrogant. First, I want you to name the group of people that you are referring to, EJ. Name the group, define that what makes them "inferior" and I will prove you wrong.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: CarolC
Date: 05 May 03 - 02:53 PM

No, I quite like it. No hardship at all.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST
Date: 05 May 03 - 03:39 PM

And I send my kids to public school because:

They get a better education than they would in a narrow minded, elitist private school, and

SO THEY WON'T HAVE TO ASSOCIATE WITH EJ'S ARROGANT LITTLE BASTARDS!!!

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,nother guest
Date: 05 May 03 - 03:50 PM

I send my kids to a parochial private school full of the races EJ dislikes, not because I want them to associate with those races, but because I do not want them to associate with the rich kids at the other private schools.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: EJ
Date: 05 May 03 - 04:13 PM

My children (and me) ARE arrogant...we ARE leaders of people like You and You and You. You are the ones with rings in your noses and all we have to do is tug on your chain. It is how and why we are born. We sit on the hill that you try in vain to climb. With the attitudes that I have read in your responses to my post...you will never make it. You are stuck at the bottom crawling around with the mixed masses. I really feel for you. Ah, I really do love the USA.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 May 03 - 04:22 PM

Yeah....Yeah....I know.....but humor me, sir troll EJ. Define "The people that I avoid" (taken from your post above), tell me why you see them as inferior, and I will prove you wrong. C'mon EJ, this should be easy, me jes' bein' an ignorant fella, and you and yours bein' so brill and all.

The facts are, sir, that I will match my accomplishments against yours any time you would like. My children are wonderful and successful in the prosecution of their lives. And I don't buy into this stuff you are trying to convince folks.

You are starting to descend into the "oh yeah?" school of debate and discussion. Come on back to the debate. Unless you are incapable?

Otherwise, to quote the venerable 'Spaw, "Grab yerself a Coke, go sit in the corner, smile, ......... and shut the f**k up".

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: EJ
Date: 05 May 03 - 04:59 PM

Sorry Mick...you are not up to the challenge. OK, OK, I give up. EJ signing off.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,Rizzo
Date: 05 May 03 - 05:26 PM

EJ

I salute you. You won.

I also strive to be better than the masses. I've done it, too.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: CarolC
Date: 05 May 03 - 05:29 PM

My children (and me) ARE arrogant...we ARE leaders of people like You and You and You. You are the ones with rings in your noses and all we have to do is tug on your chain. It is how and why we are born. We sit on the hill that you try in vain to climb. With the attitudes that I have read in your responses to my post...you will never make it. You are stuck at the bottom crawling around with the mixed masses. I really feel for you. Ah, I really do love the USA.

That's a hell of an assumption. I've spent time amongst people like you. I couldn't have been more miserable in that environment. I'll just stay happily here at the bottom with the other human beings, while those of you "at the top" continue to delude yourselves about who's wearing the nose rings.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: DougR
Date: 05 May 03 - 06:03 PM

Just suppose ...a stretch I admit ...but suppose anyway, that it was the Black students who insisted on an all Black Prom, and no White students allowed. Would everyone be as equally exercised about that?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 May 03 - 06:06 PM

There ya go, laddie. Nice job! When you know you can't win, not because I am brilliant but because your arguments are intellectually weak, just use the old self deprecating, "martyr", superiority driven, tactic. Just turn smug...........and quit. You are right, you did lose.

BTW, anytime you want to test your theory as to whether I am up to it, just come on back.

Back to the music threads.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: NicoleC
Date: 05 May 03 - 06:10 PM

I would, Doug. Either way, it's sad that the students feel it necessary -- whatever the reasons -- to divide the prom along racial lines.

Truthfully, though, if I were I high school student today, I probably would go to the low-budget Latino prom. Who can afford all that nonsense?

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 May 03 - 06:11 PM

Doug,.....of course I would....Have you ever thought of real debate instead of just throwing out these trite, and cliche driven, little catch phrases/questions? I know you are a conservative, and I am all right with that. But your arguments and statements usually lack depth.

Now, while you are pondering your questions, I have one for you. Has the predicate you have laid out ever, to your knowledge, happened? Another one for you. To your knowledge, has that ever been the case for black students, not being allowed at a white prom, that is? You have your answer as to why it is a different kettle of fish entirely. But you will find a way to alibi.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 05 May 03 - 06:54 PM

Now, I have often been accused of elitism, and with fairly good reason. I am amazed at EJ's behavior, however, because he seems to have missed the fundamental basis for a valid feeling of elitism: that the elites achieve their position solely on merit. While I can't say whether or not his claims of achieving wealth and influence on his own are true, it seems fairly obvious that his kids wouldn't have gotten as far as they have without Daddy's money; if they would have, there would have been no need to spend it. EJ's beliefs are pretty questionable, given that the very basis for them, the superiority of his social class, is entirely based on circumstance.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST
Date: 05 May 03 - 06:58 PM

Americans like EJ are the reason for 9/11

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,nother GUEST
Date: 05 May 03 - 07:01 PM

no, that's not true. (does that make me troll-bait?)

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Bobert
Date: 05 May 03 - 07:37 PM

Well, America is very much a segregated society but since the 1950's has been trying varoius things to move forward but, in spite of these efforts, has not come very far at all. Well, in these times of extreme *intolerance*, looks very much like the US is going to loose ground in race relations.

The *white* South is ripe for regressin' since it has a disporportionate number of under-eduacted who live for Buidweiser, country music and NASCAR and don't seem to have much tolerance fir black folk or folks with a more enlightened perspective. And Bush, the master of class warfare, has done nuthing but kiss lots of redneck butt with his quips about intellectuals.

Heck, I think the white folk oughtta just be rounded up and sent back to Europe where they belong and leave the country to the descendents of those who really *built* the danged thing: black folks and the folks that were here when whitey colonized the joint.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 May 03 - 07:40 PM

Scram, Bobert, ya danged carpetbagger, we got this 'un covered.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Bobert
Date: 05 May 03 - 08:11 PM

Danged, Mick, yer can call this ol' hillbilly anything 'cept a carpetbagger 'er late to supper...

(Carpetbagger, my butt. Hmmmm? What if I called ol' Mick a danged Republican. No. Ahhhh, Democrat! Yeah, that ougtta teach him a lesson fir callin' my a carperbagger.)

Yo, Mick, you "democrat"! Hah, see how it feels? Didn't think you'd like that one no more than you callin' me, ahhhh, who's born and raised in "Ol' Virginny", a carperbagger. Now say yer sorry 'er we'll have ya barred from the prom!

(Mess with ol' bobert, will they? Jus' what knid nut do they think I am, anyway? Grrrrrrrrrr......)

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 May 03 - 08:15 PM

Bobert.....if'n you drag yer wuthless ole hide to the Gitaway this here fall, I might jes jive you a down home, goin' back to Jesus, buttwhoopin', boooooy!! Either that or sang a couple a song with ya! Ya don't 'spose ole EJ would show up and elite our butts right out of the place, would he?????

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: EJ
Date: 05 May 03 - 08:19 PM

I am truly sorry to hop back in but it is SO HARD being a wealthy, superior intellectual (and I must say truly attractive) from a southern family who has lived on the same land for over 200 years. Believe me when I say that times can be very trying especially in these hard economic times. Of course the charities we sponsor suffer from lack of funds but this CANNOT be helped. Unfortunately we had to cut corners SOMEWHERE. We DID employ lots of unfortunates on the farm and the logging operations but times are hard and even we had to scale back on the labor force (except for the servant staff). Oh, dear me, how I rattle on. This thread is about the young folks and their choice of who attends their proms. Again I say that they should have the choice. We went so far as to give our children private proms here on the homestead. They were such handsome boys and lovely girls. I hope they can end up where they want to be. I must admit that my country club is full of very intolerant ol' boys who close ranks from undesirable outsiders.

Bobert...you are right, integration will never totally wash in the south even though the gents of congress declare it so.

Mick...I hope you can convince someone to duke it out with you. It really might be fun if you can find some on your "level". TaTa

Rizzo...I do believe I like you.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 May 03 - 08:41 PM

Actually, EJ, I was using tongue in cheek, much the same as you. What I would really like you to do is simply justify your position in an intellectuall fashion. Really shouldn't be much of a problem for a person of your standing and education. So I ask again. Please define for me who the people are that you are so keen to keep your children away from, and what is it that makes them the lowlife that you portray them to be.

I would advise, sir, that your attempts at obfuscation are not working. You would serve your cause better by justifying your positions, rather than by trying to cloud the issues with cute statements. At this point you simply look like a relic of a very sad past.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Bobert
Date: 05 May 03 - 08:47 PM

Okay, Mick! What's this Gitway, anyway? Ain't like Amway, is it 'er I ain't coming. All they wanta do is sell you a bunch of cleanin' crap. I mean, like whats wrong with Ajax! Really? Ahhhh, an this ain't no bank robbery where I get to drive the getaway car is it 'cause you can count me out on that one, too. (Man, what a hillbilly will do to get a good ol' fashion butt whuppin?) Ahhhh, an' this better not be no UnitedWay, 'cause you can takew it to the bank that this ol' hillbilly ain't gonna drop no money in the bucket fir no butt whuppin'. I mean, like... butt whuppins ougtta be free. That's what has made America great. *Free* butt whuppinz.

But back to this Gitway/Amway/Wrongway thing. Where is the danged thing? I might drag my sorry butt and the old Martin up there fir the priviledge of the two of us gettin' whupped up on. "Tween you and me, the Martin could use a good whuppin'!

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 May 03 - 09:02 PM

Just the finest, funnest, musicest, pickin'est, gathering of 'Catters anywhere on earth. It just seems to draw. It is actually a annual function of the Folk Society of Greater Washington, DC., and they very graciously allow us 'Catters to piggyback on their event. It works out very well for both of us. And they are as wonderful a bunch of folkies as you will find anywhere. I wouldn't miss my trip back East to visit with these wonderful friends for anything.

This year it looks like the Gaelic Goddess, Aine, will be meeting me in Chicago area and hitchin' a ride. In the past Mudcatters from all over the US, Canada, England, etc. have come. You will not regret it. Sides, boy, if'n ole Mick can drag his sorry, big Irish arse all the way from Michigan, then you can surely hop up the road from Virginny.

It will be happening October 17-19. You can check out another thread with links to the FSGW site HERE.

It would be great to sing with you.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Bobert
Date: 05 May 03 - 09:17 PM

Yeah, okay, I'll be there. Come to thing of it Rita, of Rita and Bill, thought I should get me butt to this thing, and so I will. And I'll tell ya what. My guitar thinks its really hot so when it comes to whuppin' up on it, I'll hold it down!

Lookin' forward to it.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 05 May 03 - 09:45 PM

EJ-You are an idiot.

john

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: EJ
Date: 05 May 03 - 09:47 PM

Mick...I find it hard to try to explain the importance of class and position to those of you who, unfornately, have little little or none.
I attempt to keep me and mine within the same level or social strata
that we have been fortunate enough to have been born in. It is expected of our class to stick together in order to preserve our distinctive way of life. We are very obviously the leaders and decision makers of this great land. We are the lawmakers who dictate to the rest of you the way to live and conduct yourselves. We are responsible for the wealth and the future of this country. That is the way it is. Accept it. But now back to the children and their proms...try to focus on that. That is probably more in your realm of thinking. Please tell us again your thoughts on the subject at hand.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Bobert
Date: 05 May 03 - 09:59 PM

EJ:

You are obviously not from the upper class. Now, I would be the last person on earth to lecture someone from the... upper class, about grammer but you're ending a sentence with a preposition has given you away, my friend.

Now that we have established the fact that you'z
is a fake, whaddayathink about an "all white" prom?

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 May 03 - 10:10 PM

I would point out several things to you.

First off, you don't know me or my social standing. I won't bore you with my standing in the professional circles that I inhabit, but let it suffice to say that I operate at a very high level.

With regard to youand your kind being the "leaders" of this great land, once again you make assumptions. This is symptomatic of great arrogance. The simple fact is that in one aspect of my life, I regularly interact with some of the top leaders in this land. Further, I am on a first name basis. It would be interesting to know you name so that I might see if you show up on any of the guest lists.

Finally, with regard to my social standing, let me tell you that I count among my friends people like Caroline and Sandy Paton, Art Thieme, Rick Fielding, Heather Fielding, Jed Marum, Dan Milner, Barry Finn, Bill Day, Rita Ferrara, Allan C, Paul and Bev Mills, Chance, Seamus Kennedy, Aine Cooke, Micca Patterson, Dave Swan, Pam Swan, Pat Patterson, Jeri Corlew, Joe Offer, Dani Black, Kathy Westra, Mary LaMarca, George, Karen Kobela, ....I am not at the end (don't get mad, folks, I could go on. I knew I shouldn't have started naming names), and I haven't even got to the Michigan folks yet. I wouldn't trade one of them for you and the whole lot of those you hang with.

Bottom line here is that you went trolling here today, and it got away from you. You have exposed yourself as arrogant, elitist, and racist.

And once again, you revert to baiting to compensate for your lack of ability to present a viable defense of your statements. It shows you for what you really are.

And no, I don't believe that it is healthy for the youngsters to have segregated proms. It is reprehensible to pass this off to them as tradition. If it is a tradition, it is the tradition of a sick group of people.

I am proud to stick with my own kind.........humankind.

See you at the barricades. Bring your lunch.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: CarolC
Date: 05 May 03 - 10:49 PM

The irony of people like EJ is that, since they use artificial social constructs to define themselves, they are, therefore, a slave to those artificial social constructs. This is because, since they are defined by them, without them, they are nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 05 May 03 - 11:33 PM

What was that old saying about the Boston Brahmins- The Cabots only speak to the Lodges and the Lodges speak only to God? Something like that, but forgotten, now.
But the Brahmins of Boston, as pillars of society and as important legislators and molders of thought in their day, never disparaged any group.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Forum Lurker
Date: 06 May 03 - 12:11 AM

EJ-If people like you are responsible for the wealth and the future of this nation, I would refer you to the thread "How the U.S. will finally lose its power?" It is evident that you are either not conversant in the founding principles of democracy, or simply don't care about them. If we are ruled by the ignorant, we will certainly decay. If we are ruled by elitist, racist bigots who consider breeding more important than ability, the masses of which you are so disdainful will do the same to you as was done to Louis XVI, and with as just cause.

As far as the proms go, yes, they are technically within their rights to hold such an event. Not all acts which are legal are morally acceptable, however, and I cannot condone, nor pardon those who condone, the continuation of such outmoded, divisive ideas as racial segregation.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 May 03 - 12:34 AM

Well, well, EJ has certainly wound us all up. I am surprised so many have responded to him in such an earnest manner. IMO, he does not deserve it. Obviously he is either living in a past century in la-la land or fabricating a psuedo-reality for our "entertainment." Either way, it's pretty stupid (meaning his actions).

Class, real class has nothing to do with money. There are people on the Mudcat who have more class in their little finger than people like EJ ever dreamt.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Big Mick
Date: 06 May 03 - 12:43 AM

Not wound up, kat. Just making sure that he knows that there are folks here that see right through his facade. Never let them speak truth to a lie.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 May 03 - 12:48 AM

Understood, Mick, but whatever happened to not responding to them?

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: DougR
Date: 06 May 03 - 01:41 AM

Sorry you feel my question was trite, Mick. Your priviledge of course. I think it was a legitimate one, but then since I am not of the intellectual class, what do I know? If, in order to be considered a writer of posts in depth one must write paragraph after paragraph (usually only emphasizing a point already made) then I'd suggest you not read my posts, Mick. Simple.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: EJ
Date: 06 May 03 - 06:33 AM

Bobert...Yes, I make mistakes. To answer your question about the prom thing...the white kids should do as they please. They do where I live. The rest will make do, they always have.   

Big Mick...I am impressed with your imaginary circle of friends. In dreams you can aspire to whatever lofty plane you wish to ascend to. Ah, the freedom of the human mind. I'm sure with all the free time on your hands you read a lot of social columns. Do you collect clippings? I still hope you get someone to debate you even though you appear somewhat ill-equipped and lacking in certain graces required to maintain your composure. The barricades? I don't bring "lunch"...I have it served. Be careful not to give yourself away.

katlaughing...people respond to be heard. They are afraid of being lost underfoot if they are quiet. You are probably the most observant and astute of the muddled lot.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,hotdog
Date: 06 May 03 - 07:11 AM

JohnHindsill, where is the place in Southern Africa that is totally white? Sounds interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Big Mick
Date: 06 May 03 - 07:24 AM

Doug, if you would answer the question I posed, we could get into a discussion. Your "question" is the standard one that those who would like to preserve a status quo that favors one group over another would use. It is pointless to try and act like several hundred years of slavery have not had an ongoing effect on the attitudes of a great many citizens of the USA. Evidence of this fact lies in events like these proms. Do you see separate German and Polish proms? How about Lithuanian and Scottish proms? The only separate proms are based on color. The defining color based event in our country's history was slavery. If you find my logic flawed, please respond with your reasons. Please do not throw worn out cliches into the mix. Simple as that.

Attaboy, EJ. Stay the course, old chum. Continue to try and belittle, obfuscate.......anything but engage in the debate and defend your views. You look more and more like a figure out of a cheap movie. But, nice try. Another sign of the arrogance of folks like you is that you don't believe anyone could have a circle of friends and acquaintances that would remotely equal yours. But mine is verifiable. But, of course, you won't bother. Facts are frightening to folks like you.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Tinker
Date: 06 May 03 - 08:03 AM

Oh, ej.... Sorry but your definition of class seems to be the "right" schools, the "right" social groups and the "right incomes. Well, me and the black mister fit all the catagories. Yes, my kids move to private schools at the high school level, but good private school actually have a quality level of inteegration and don't tolerate overt discrimination. In fact, they recruit bright minorities. My 6th grade son has already recieved recruitment material based on color and ( oh yeah, lacrosse). But, since I won't concider boarding school the point is moot.

Unfortunately for many interracial activities are seen to be contagious. A couple years ago we went down to South Carolina for a high school graduation with the entire family. I made the kids dress as we would here at home. They were clearly over dressed at the high school stadium. Despite crowded conditions we had empty benches around us. Mostly folks find ideas out side their experience scary. Life goes one one experience at a time.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,mfdvr
Date: 06 May 03 - 10:02 AM

Tinker(?) You can't be real. You sound like some ignorant cracker trying to sound like an upscale minority. Very good, you even misspell enough words and make unclear statements to almost pull it off. Get a life, whoever you are, or you end up with nothing better to do like some of the respondents to this useless thread who are searching for the "great debate" or trying to spout philosophical trash like some loser whose name starts with a "B". Puleeze! Shape up or you will spend your life sitting in front of computers trying to figure out who you will be today.

EJ, you may or not be real, but you really have the knack of bringing the nutcases out of hiding.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Tinker
Date: 06 May 03 - 10:15 AM

Sorry, I am who I am. White woman with a black Wall Street husband is not a common "folkie" profile, but I'm stuck with it. Maybe we'll meet at Getaway some time.

Tinker

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Big Mick
Date: 06 May 03 - 10:23 AM

Thanks for your very uplifting insights, mfdvr. They added greatly to our understanding of the nature of racism, both overt and benign. Stop in again some time when you can't stay as long.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: posterchild
Date: 06 May 03 - 11:07 AM

EJ, you are truly a USA hero to me. I love the language you converse in to let people like Big Mick in his place in line. I am always amused at how american underlings try to make an argument in a case that they are in ingorance of. If you do not live the life you cannot discuss the same. EJ please send me first a PM and I will respond as I will like to correspond with you personally. I am Marie.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Kim C
Date: 06 May 03 - 02:14 PM

Doug, it's my understanding that the black students at this school DO have their own prom as well.

What I have always found unusual is that ethnic groups have their own churches. I've seen black churches, Korean churches, etc., etc., A couple of years ago, a black Baptist congregation was meeting in the same building as a white Baptist congregation, while the black church was being built. I thought it odd that they didn't all just worship together.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST
Date: 06 May 03 - 04:21 PM

OH! Now I see where ol' EJ is comin' from. He's been sayin' he's in the upper class and can look down on all the rest. Well, that's probably true down in the south country where he's from. Just don't come up north, EJ; top class down there is on a par with lowest class up north.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: DougR
Date: 06 May 03 - 04:50 PM

Mick: I posed my question seriously and you obviously consider it trite. Here is my reasoning: the suppostion that the black students would not want a Prom excluding white students implies, to me at least, that it is not possible for the black students to have predjudices of their own. Why should we automatically assume that the black students are delighted to have white students at the Prom? Is it because they should be "priviledged" to be included with the white students?

Isn't that being a bit elitist?

There may be someone, somewhere, that truly has absolutely no prejudices at all against anything. Can anyone in this community make that claim?

Now Kim informs us that the black students will, indeed, have an all black Prom. Should the white students protest because they are being excluded from the black student's Prom?

I posed the original question because I was interested to know what answers I would receive.

Instead of replying to my question with a simple "yes," or "no," (which certainly would have been sufficient) I am lectured to by my betters, and reviled as a racist who is not sympathetic to the cause of intergration.

Did I express an opinion, one way or the other, about the exclusion of the black students from the all white Prom? I don't think so. Does that make me a racist?

I don't think so.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: CarolC
Date: 06 May 03 - 05:07 PM

DougR, I suggest you read the article that was linked to in the opening post of this thread. That will set some of your misconceptions straight, as well as answering some of your questions.

BTW, there was no "Blacks only" prom. There was a "White's only" prom and a "Mixed" prom where everyone was welcome.

I notice, though, that you don't read my posts, so I don't expect you to see this one.

Subject: RE: MICKWATCH, MICKWATCH, MICKWATCH!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 06 May 03 - 06:05 PM

Attention Earthlings, and K-Mart Shoppers.....

We are the 'Intergalactic MICKWATCH People' (Imps for short). Everytime we feel that Mick is in danger of inviting dipsticks, sillypersons and (as someone once called them here) "BRATS", for a BEER, in order to 'discuss things like good ol' boys, we strike with our full 12 inch fury! Upside his head we go, slapping him senseless and screaming in his ear "stop taking the bait! Stop taking the bait"! Our full 12 inch fury can not be matched even by HIM!

We can put up with him calling them "My friend", but it's this inviting them across continents and oceans that we will punish!

natternatternatternatternatter

Back to our good spaceship Venus

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Tinker
Date: 06 May 03 - 06:17 PM

Doug, I only scanned the thread this morning as I sent kids off to school and missed your question. Of course there is prejudice on both sides of the racial divide. I've had long conversations with intelligent black women who understand that their stand is not logical, but who firmly believe that while it is acceptable for black women to date and marry white men; it is not acceptable for white women to marry black men. There really is long and thought out historical and topical current reasoning.

In this case, the "black" prom is open to all. But fear of difference occurs on both sides of the issue. I'd say the disapproving looks we get as a couple are pretty evenly divided between both blacks and whites.

Tinker

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: CarolC
Date: 06 May 03 - 06:19 PM

Ohhh... posterchild, I'm sorry. You won't be acceptable to EJ and the rest of the cloistered US elites. You have openly admitted to being bi-polar. That just won't do. You'll have to stay here at the bottom with the rest of us flawed human beings, and the fallen elites who get caught with their humanity showing.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,mfdvr
Date: 06 May 03 - 06:23 PM

Tinkerbell...my dear, it is you who needs a "getaway". Stop by and pick up Big Mick. He is the guy who cannot stick to the subject at hand and keeps trying to overwhelm us with his knowledge and threatening everybody with "The Great Debate". Hang in there

Oh, by the way, let the kids work it out, they usually handle things better than most adults. If the whites don't want black around them, and vice-versa, so be it!

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: DougR
Date: 06 May 03 - 07:12 PM

Just to be fair, Carol C, I did read the article. There was nothing there that causes me to change my mind.

Frankly, I think mfdr makes an excellent point in his last paragraph in his last post. If they left it up to the kids there probably would have been no controversy.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: CarolC
Date: 06 May 03 - 07:52 PM

I'm not suggesting you should change your mind about anything, DougR. But had you read the article carefully, you would have known that the there was no prom being held that was for Blacks only.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: NicoleC
Date: 06 May 03 - 07:52 PM

So much for conservative family values. "Let the kids do whatever they want!"

Last time I checked, kids needed guidance and direction to grow up and be sensible adults. That's why mothers don't just drop their newborns off at the bus stop on the way home from the hospital with bus fare.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 06 May 03 - 07:57 PM

Oh, this is so funny! Doesn't anybody get it? If EJ is a socially superior wealthy white southerner, whose children are all professionals, and who is a member of whatever elite corps comprises the upper 400 where he lives, then:

a) Why is he defending himself? and
b) Why is he on a thread? Why isn't he playing polo?

It also occurs to me that some of the so-called racial behaviours that he denigrates are also found among whites. Anyone remember the term "white trash"? (A hint -- white trash can be very, very wealthy, even socially prominent.)

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: DougR
Date: 07 May 03 - 12:45 AM

pdc: who gives a tinker's damn about Ej and his opinions? They are his, and he has a right to express them.

Carol C: I was basing my remarks on he fact that Kim posted a message that inferred that there was to be a black student's Prom. I don't think she can be faulted for that. It obviously was her understanding of the event.

I'd guess, with no knowlege other than a hunch, that the decision to have an all white Prom, Nicole, was at the urging of some parents, not the kids. Predjudice is learned, not inherent. Seems to me ...no, no, musn't make this a music thread ...oh I can't help it ...I've already gone down the path ...Rogers and Hammerstein drove that home in "South Pacific."

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Peg
Date: 07 May 03 - 01:45 AM

True story:

I was invited to a senior prom (when I was a junior) by a very nice young man (a friend) who also happened to be black. He was the star quarterback of the football team, president of the senior class, oh, and he was valedictorian. And his father was the sheriff. Very respected family in our town.

I asked my (Italian/Sicilian-American) father if I could go with him (thinking such a well-respected and prominent family would be someone he'd want me to associate with) and he pitched a fit.

I was also asked to that same prom by my boyfriend, also a senior, also black. I did not ask my father if I could go with him because by then I knew better. I always kept this boyfriend a secret although my friends and later my siblings knew about him (my sister called me a "n---er-lover" to my face; at this same time, she was dating an ex-con who was white).

He ended up taking my best friend to the prom (who was white but whose parents weren't racists).

I did not go to that prom. I did go to my senior prom the following year with a good friend who was as queer as a three-dollar bill, though. Ah, teenage rebellion.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: CarolC
Date: 07 May 03 - 07:55 AM

Carol C: I was basing my remarks on he fact that Kim posted a message that inferred that there was to be a black student's Prom. I don't think she can be faulted for that. It obviously was her understanding of the event.

I don't think Kim can be faulted for having incorrect information either, but why you would automatically believe her and not the article or any of the earlier posts I made to this thread about it is reasoning that elludes me. I speak as someone who lives in the town where the "Whites only" prom was held, and fifty miles from the town where the "mixed" prom was held, here in southern Georgia. I believe Kim lives somewhere in Tennesee or Kentucky.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,Yo' Daddy
Date: 07 May 03 - 10:34 AM

Peg, if all your post is true then you are one mixed up girl. As screwed up as a football bat. Did you grow up defiant as lots of those of you north of the Virginia border do? Did you hate your family enough to drive you to "mix it up" (sounds like you did it more than once) with those other than Italians (who usually are very close and protective of children)? Decisions made in youth stick with us. Memories stay close at hand. Watch yourself girl, you may close doors that never open again.

This is not TROLLING!

Just curious, how did you end up (no pun intended) and who with...

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Kim C
Date: 07 May 03 - 11:11 AM

From kat's original post up top, which referenced the article:

"Until then, parents and students organized separate proms for whites and blacks after school officials stopped sponsoring dances, in part because they wanted to avoid problems arising from interracial dating."

Separate proms for whites and blacks. They said it themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: CarolC
Date: 07 May 03 - 11:18 AM

I misunderstood you Kim. I thought you were saying that they are now holding separate proms.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 07 May 03 - 11:20 AM

The question was: "Just suppose ...a stretch I admit ...but suppose anyway, that it was the Black students who insisted on an all Black Prom, and no White students allowed. Would everyone be as equally exercised about that?

DougR "

We know that last year and this year black students organized mixed race proms, even though this year there was to be a whites only private prom.

We know that before two years ago, there were white and black proms, but we don't know who insisted on the separation. You're welcome.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: CarolC
Date: 07 May 03 - 11:39 AM

...and thank you ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Kim C
Date: 07 May 03 - 11:43 AM

I apologize, Carol, I was not very clear. Apparently they have had them in the past - I imagine they probably will again. The whole thing is silly. Yes, I do live in Tennessee, and this was never an issue with any school functions I ever attended, and yes, I went to public school. And yes, we were a very mixed bunch.

I'm sort of curious to know what they think are the "problems" with interracial dating.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: NicoleC
Date: 07 May 03 - 12:18 PM



You're right, Doug. Ultimately adults are reponsible for how the next generation turns out. But prejudice is like a virus, and it gets passed around. Even the world's most careful and well-meaning parents have to compete with TV, music and their kid's friends -- which may not have the same quality of careful parents. I could see the idea of a segregated prom coming from the students, but only becuase by the time kids get to the prom, they've already been exposed to the virus. A lot.

And his father was the sheriff.

Must resist lame joke... no, can't resist!

A black sheriff?!

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 07 May 03 - 12:36 PM

and Kansas City faggots!

(Yo'Daddy, Peg's life is cinematic in scope.)

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Peg
Date: 07 May 03 - 12:43 PM

not sure why I am responding to an anonymous troll but what the hell..

Yo Daddy wrote:

Peg, if all your post is true then you are one mixed up girl. As screwed up as a football bat.

--I am??? How so?? I am no longer a "girl" by the way...

Did you grow up defiant as lots of those of you north of the Virginia border do?

--well, there's a generalization if I have ever heard one. Not sure if I quite understand what it means.

Did you hate your family enough to drive you to "mix it up" (sounds like you did it more than once) with those other than Italians (who usually are very close and protective of children)?

--Every teenager hates their parents at some point in their adolescence. I think by "mix it up" you mean did I date someone outside my ethnic group and you already know the answer.
My experience of Italian family behavior is not so much the protectivity issue but that they can be very racist. My grandmother was disowned by her family for marrying a Sicilian! (She was Northern Italian) So it strikes that within this culture there is some very inherent racial/ethnic prejudice...not across the board certainly but enough that stereotyping in this way would not be entirely inappropriate...


Decisions made in youth stick with us. Memories stay close at hand. Watch yourself girl, you may close doors that never open again.

--huh? Gee, is *that* why I didn't geti

This is not TROLLING!

Just curious, how did you end up (no pun intended) and who with...

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Peg
Date: 07 May 03 - 12:51 PM

oops!
My keyboard stopped working just then....

just to finish up..



--huh? Gee, is *that* why I didn't get ito Cornell, because I dated a black guy in high school?
I did not date him because I hated my family; I dated him because I liked him. It did not really occur to me they'd be so vehemently opposed to the idea, but I suppose I should have known better. My friends questioned the decision, too, and some of my teachers looked askance at me in the hallways. Weird because I was an honor student and an officer in a lot of clubs, etc. And of course there were terrible rumors that I must be "loose", etc. (though I was not).


This is not TROLLING!

--*snort* yeah right!

Just curious, how did you end up (no pun intended) and who with...

--I don't really know what you're asking here but in any case it's none of your business...

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Big Mick
Date: 07 May 03 - 01:13 PM

This is my last post on this one, so listen up. Here are a couple of things I figured out very early in this thread.

First off, EJ isn't what he says he is. He is most likely a person with severe personality issues which he blames on race. He spends a great deal of time in front of a computer screen, with multiple screen names, and trolls because it makes him feel as if he is in control.

I chose to challenge him, because he pulls off his persona very well, and the issue is very much worth discussion.

I challenged him to say who he was talking about and demonstrate why they had no value because he was using code to speak about people of color. You notice that he never did respond.

The issue of my "friends" is very simple and I am surprised that some of you didn't get it. First off, they are my friends. Second off, I was demonstrating that my friends were common and decent folk and that they have more value than all the cliques in existence. Folks with an elitist and conspiratorial view of the world don't realize that it isn't about some elite group. In the end the world goes round based on decent people trying to do the right thing.

OK, troll brigade, the thread is all yours.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Kim C
Date: 07 May 03 - 01:35 PM

Oh. I thought he said, the sheriff is near...

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,cattin' around
Date: 07 May 03 - 01:58 PM

Well, this has really turned into quite a shootout.

First, someone in authority please explain TROLL and TROLLING. I am kinda in the dark on this.

Second, I grew up and went to a totally segregated school in central North Carolina in the 40's and 50's. We never had a serious problem with the only other "race" in the county. We went to our school and they went to theirs. We had our dances and socials and they had theirs. We didn't bother them and they didn't bother us. The strongest drug around was pot on occasion, now the schools are eatup with all kinds of killers. I never really saw that we had problems by being segregated. There was a strict dividing line and no one crossed it. That was the way that it was. Until politicians from "UP NAWTH" decided that us redneck whites and "the coloreds" be brought together for our own mutual good. To make a long story short, the black school was torn down, and a few years later the former white school, which was at one time a great place, looked just like the school that was torn down. We didn't blame this on anyone except the one who forced us together.
Dances weren't allowed because of fear of violence which did not exist before we were forced to integrate. Some things are best left alone.

Third, I have read this "thread" carefully and am convinced that some of you have entirely too much free time to worry about other folks. Some of you are downright scary! Intellecuals such as Big Mick surely must have better things to do than to want to "debate" everyone about everything. Then there is EJ, a wealthy "plantation" owner who surely has better ways to spend his time than to talk about his wealth and power. Then there are some of you so unsure of your existence that you spend your life defending yourself form comments made by others. Who gives a big hairy rat's butt? Think about it.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 May 03 - 02:50 PM

Well, even though I think YOU are a troll and know very well what it means, you've created another fantasy world and are calling it truth, so...

We didn't bother them and they didn't bother us.

I guess that means the KKK, lynchngs, etc. were all fabricated and we've all been taught lies about the civil rights movement, then...uh-huh, right.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,cattin' around
Date: 07 May 03 - 04:27 PM

I meant what I said...we didn't bother them and they didn't bother us. No KKK, no lynchings (you mispelled it), no fights, no trouble, no fantasy world. We had peaceful co-existence and were content and were more civil to each other then than we are now. The blacks fought integration in the schools harder than the whites. I think they had more intelligence then than our pitiful elected officials. They knew what would happen down the road. AND, it has happened.

I DO NOT KNOW THE MEANING OF THE WORD TROLL AS YOU USE IT. If you don't want to let me in on your thread secrets, screw you and your kind.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 May 03 - 05:07 PM

Show some proof, history does not bear you out.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,cattin' around
Date: 07 May 03 - 05:24 PM

It does where I live. Now, about the term troll...

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: CreoleJack
Date: 07 May 03 - 06:15 PM

Hi yall, I'm a new 'catter from the bayou country of Loos-ana. I been reading all this scrapping about segregated proms for the kids.
We still have them in parts of the bayou because thats the way folks want it period. I agree with cattin' around about the problems caused by segregation of the schools. Especially down here people don't take good to forced changes. Some groups of folks are dumber than stumps. We fought the new laws longer than most but we lost anyways. So I will ask, what is meant by trolling? Jack

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 May 03 - 06:27 PM

On the Internet, a troll is a person who posts messages that create controversy or elicit an angry response without adding content to the discussion, often intentionally. Though technically different from flaming which is an unmistakable direct personal attack, trolls often resort to innuendo or misdirection in the pursuit of their objective, which is to create controversy for its own sake, discredit those with whom they disagree, or sabotage discussion by creating an intimidating atmosphere.

Note: this is a highly subjective term, as everyone is affected differently by the nature of the term deemed a "troll".

Originally this term applied to people who were intentionally posting flamebait, by analogy with the fishing technique of trolling: metaphorically, these people were dragging a conversational lure through the group, hoping for a response. The concept of "this person is trolling our newsgroup" became shortened to "this person is a troll", and picked up the association of the monster trolls of folklore.

Trolling mostly maintains its earlier meaning of posting messages specifically in order to elicit a particular response, usually anger or argument.

The noun form, troll, is sometimes used in the more general sense of someone who stirs up controversy, whether or not the controversy itself is their goal.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 07 May 03 - 07:16 PM

Kat, cattin' around describes the situation as it was pre-WW2. Agreed, segregation meant that only the white population had power, education, and access to better education; it was not right but that was the way it was. There was almost no crime. The races did not meet socially except in carefully orchestrated occasions. The old capitol of Georgia was in the the town of Milledgeville, a town whose culture I know (although never completely at home there because I was from outside). Before WW2 it was exactly as he said. The public school was blacks only. White girls went to a school run by Georgia State Women's College. White boys went to the Georgia Military College.
There were a few whites in town who sometimes caused trouble and talked KKK, (referred to as mill-hands or poor white trash) but their actions were carefully monitored by the majority of the citizens.
When the system collapsed after the War, as it was bound to do, the situation became ugly. We all know that it took quite a few years before an uneasy balance was found. It will take at least another generation before the type of integration found in larger cities of the north is attained.

There was no violence in the small towns like Milledgeville, where protests by the black citizens were restrained, as was the response by the white citizens. Both groups were careful not to step on each others toes. After the war, the situation with regard to schools changed but little, since the white schools were not public in the true sense of the word. Some integration of the public schools occurred, but the educated white people kept their children in private schools. As a result, only children of disadvantaged whites were integrated with the blacks, which caused deterioration of education for the blacks.
Reasonable schooling for blacks in the small towns is now available, but funds are not available through taxes to pay for schooling equal to that obtained by white children in the private schools, or, now, exclusive areas. The equal but unequal situation found in many areas throughout the United States (and Canada).
Chiefs of police, some mayors, many police and city and county officials are often black in areas with high black voter bases. Pressures by affluent, educated blacks has obtained reasonable schooling for their children- who at higher levels now attend the same schools as the whites, unless they prefer a college that remains essentially black. The system is working, but time is still needed before full equality of opportunity is attained.

Lots of words. I don't pretend to have the answers, but I see much progress, especially now that outside agitators have been long gone (yes, they were needed in the Evers-King days but those days are past), and reasonable jobs and education are available for those formerly considered white trash. This latter fact has resulted in the almost complete disappearance of racial violence.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: CreoleJack
Date: 08 May 03 - 09:53 AM

Well, thank you for the complete definition. If I understand it and I think I do, lots of you folks spend a lot of your time trolling each other and baiting everyone who has an opinion. It IS your time.

cattin' around and Q make valid points about race relations during prewarII and postwarII. Seems like I have a few kin in little towns in Georgia, Alto and Cornelia, and seems like they told me that signs were posted in the 20's and 30's warning a certain group of people "not to be caught in town after sundown". Fortunately times have changed but sentiments still runs deep in these areas. People who do not live in these areas of the south only know what they read.
So be tolerant when residents describe the history and present of the areas they live in. They know better than you. I think I am going to enjoy dropping in on these bouts every once in a while. Bet the same people will be here. Ciao, Jack (Gawd, I do hope I spelled that right.)

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 08 May 03 - 02:04 PM

Creole Jack, go above the line sometime. Not all of those who hang around here are bottom-feeders, but for retired oldsters like me it is more entertaining than television. Come summer, some of us will do some real trolling.
(Also relief from a boring job in a cubicled office?)

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 May 03 - 02:31 PM

I can see i have some more research and reading to do. I appreciate the further info, Q, but I still would like to see some actual cites for what you and others have said.

I think it is safe to say that IF there wasn't much violence, it was mostly because "black folks" knew their place, much as during the times of slavery, and everthing went well as long as they didn't forget and step out of line. That hardly seems a time to be nostalgic over, imo.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: CreoleJack
Date: 08 May 03 - 03:45 PM

katlaughing...
here is a suggestion from one who has been around the mulberry bush more than once. The most perfect two places in God's world to get the kind of insight and knowledge you seek are Selma, Alabama and Jackson, Mississippi. Both have seen upheavals in race relations since the Civil War. They have both been site of marches and demonstrations and lynchings and the whole racial free-for-all. Integration is far from achieved in both areas. The schools are desegregated but the division is a straight and narrow line. People here segregate themselves because that is the best way for them to live. Confederate flags fly plentiful and proudly. PLUS now there are latinos and a sprinkling of asians mixed into the fray. You want to learn first hand? Spend a month in this part of the world, visit the newspaper, clerks of court, pull up old court records and talk to the folks who live there. I can assure you, you will learn all that you care to. A picture IS worth a thousand words. The story is all in their eyes.

Q...you have to wait for summer? Come on down to the bayou country where something bites everyday. Bet that raises a few questions. And of course (goes without saying) the finest cooking there is.
Living on the edge of a swamp in a trailer with no A/C and no screens on the doors and windows...well, think about it.

Jack

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 08 May 03 - 05:20 PM

Thread drift, Creole Jack, but I am living in Canada, and talking about the food in Lou'siana you make me jealous. Driving to Georgia from Texas one night (1965 approx.), we were stopped by a deputy (the car resembled one that had been stolen). It was getting late, and my wife mentioned that we were hungry. He directed us to a place down a side road, said it was the right night to go there, and wished us well. It was a Cajun juke joint with a sign on the door, Crab, 50 cents. The crab was served piled high on beer trays. With beer, it was excellent (and work taking the crab apart!) and it was fun watching the people, whole families. Talking to someone there, he said the blacks (euphemism) do it better down the road a bit (shrimp on the side or something), but you had to take it out, whites not welcome. I doubt that things have changed much, if the places are still there.
The best place for pork barbecue in Milledgeville (the town I talked about, above), I remember, was black. A sister-in-law says it still runs the same way. The whites buy take-out, but eat in their cars or take it home.
A lot is different in cities like Houston, where the well-to-do of both races go to the same places, often mixed at the same table- but much closer to the old ways in the poorer parts of town. One place in Houston only a southerner would like was an upscale seafood restaurant where the waiters were older, patrician-looking blacks. They did a beautiful, understated Uncle Tom routine, which was quietly enjoyed by both the whites and blacks eating there, but left northern visitors totally confused.

Tolerance is there, but social integration is still sometime in the future. The only way to learn about southern living is to experience it.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,transplant
Date: 08 May 03 - 06:08 PM

Q, sad to say. But I think you are saying that money can buy equality or at least the outward appearance of it. It seems like the poorer that the poor are, the less equal they are...even to each other.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 May 03 - 06:09 PM

Again, the input is appreciated. Not an option for me to visit there for the near future. I am sure my ancestors would have understood, as one of them lost the Virginia plantation etc. through co-signing of a county employee's "note" which said employee did not satisfy thus leaving my great-great grandad to pay up. As well as my ancestors on the other side one of which was one of the early governors of the Carolinas having left his sugar plantation in Barbados for the mainland.

However, with best beloved son-in-law from Antigua and two of the most beautiful twin grandsons of mixed race, I can tell you I would have a hard time understanding any of it. Intellectually - yes; emotionally and ethically - no.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 08 May 03 - 07:27 PM

Don't be seduced by gentility, kat. Flame wars not required, but intellectually it falls flat as well. (I know your comment reflects a temporary lapse.)

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 May 03 - 10:08 PM

Well, I only meant that I could understand intellectually how someone else might see it that way, not that I could really understand it, coming from my background and point of view. I guess I should have clarified it a bit. Thanks, heric.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 08 May 03 - 10:47 PM

Hurray for you, Katlaughing. I have three -- count 'em, three -- grandsons of mixed race. They are more beautiful than either of the original races.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,transplant
Date: 09 May 03 - 08:27 AM

Here's a real kick in the head. I guess all you "mixers" (as someone earlier put it) will not be happy until we are the colour of Starbuck Latte with lots of cream. Is this where we are heading?

US transplant from UK

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 May 03 - 08:57 AM

This mixer, as you put it, is colour-blind in that instance and would wish it so on all of the human race. My cats are a model of this: orange, black with gold, striped gray, and toasty chocolate and they could care less at their differences.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Tinker
Date: 09 May 03 - 10:38 AM

Don't worry Guest,Transplant, the rules of recessive genes means that you never really know what the combination will bring up. My youngest is almost blonde with barely a wave to his hair. The boy must've found every recessive the Mister and I both own.   My daughter has been "identified" by others as Italien, East Indian, Puetro Rican amd usually by folks who see her as "one of Us". Mixing up the gene pool can do some wonderful things...

Tinker

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,Forum Lurker
Date: 09 May 03 - 10:58 AM

Not to mention eliminating recessive nasties like sickle-cell, Tay-Sachs, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 09 May 03 - 12:03 PM

To Guest, Transplant:

You said "I guess all you "mixers" (as someone earlier put it) will not be happy until we are the colour of Starbuck Latte with lots of cream."

1) There's nothing wrong with that.
2) There may well be a great deal right with that.
3) People like you will still argue about which shade of Starbuck Latte is better.
4) Within a thousand years or so, there's a good chance that the white race will disappear, be bred out.
5) So what?

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,transplant
Date: 09 May 03 - 12:25 PM

How scary. If the white is all bred out, who will work and provide programs and aide and housing? Who will buy crack? Perhaps by that time everything will be free. But if this all comes about your proms won't be a problem.

Next stop, Iceland

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,Forum Lurker
Date: 09 May 03 - 01:21 PM

transplant-To question 1, the same people who have always done so: the middle class. To question 2: no one. Designer drugs will trigger natural endorphins by that point.

pdc-I sincerely hope that we never achieve physical uniformity. This has nothing to do with ideology and everything with aesthetics. On the other hand, by the time it becomes a problem, cosmetic alteration will probably have advanced to the point where one's natural appearance will never see the light of day.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 09 May 03 - 04:59 PM

To Forum Lurker:

Impossible to achieve actual physical uniformity. Even those countries with so-called racial "purity," like Japan, have major differences in all sorts of human attributes.

But what is funny -- several years ago, when I was in Trinidad, I heard two men arguing over which is better, dull black skin or shiny black skin.

Ah, the human condition!

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,satchel
Date: 10 May 03 - 12:41 PM

I suggest that rednecks and elitists alike take a look at the US constitution, especially the preamble, and the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments. This is the LAW of the land--irrespective of "the way we've always done it around here" in either the North or the South

Regarding the previous dozen or so posts, read Ira Berlin's "Many Thousands Gone." Berlin convincingly shows how the idea of race is a social and historical construction, and NOT based on biology. Of course, there are biological variants, but these do not account for what defines a racial identity.

It's time to move beyond the ideas of 19th century social darwinism and examine the actual forces that cause our society to think the way it does...

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,booger
Date: 10 May 03 - 08:21 PM

How many of you recliner chair intellects can list the number of different races in the world: And what if they ALL lived in and wanted their own prom in Durham North Carolina (Look up the stats).

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.

How 'bout you satchel, how smart ARE you...

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: NicoleC
Date: 10 May 03 - 08:43 PM

Easy question, provieded we're talking about humans.

1.

The human race.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 10 May 03 - 10:26 PM

GUEST, Stachel said:

"...the idea of race is a social and historical construction, and NOT based on biology. Of course, there are biological variants, but these do not account for what defines a racial identity."

Exactly the same thing goes for gender, as opposed to sex.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,booger
Date: 11 May 03 - 06:57 PM

Most of the races are considered humans.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,Shocked by EJ
Date: 12 May 03 - 04:01 PM

To EJ: A true lady or gentleman is gracious, courteous, and charitable in behavior and deed. One should always set a good example and extend a helping hand in assisting others achieve success; to the extent they are able to achieve it. One does wonder, however, at your background. Braggadocio is generally considered bad form and may indicate a lack of breeding. Tut tut.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,satchel
Date: 12 May 03 - 08:08 PM

The point that Booger seems to have missed completely is that race only exists in the mind--in his case, in six places. I agree with "NicoleC." As for Booger's last question--we'll see.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,mfdvr
Date: 13 May 03 - 05:45 PM

I think that booger is asking how many races are recognized by the World Association For Race Recognition. The ones I remember:

1. Caucasoid
2. Mongoloid
3. Negroid
4.
5.
6.

The above are verified by Mr Webster in his dictionary. I'm not sure there are six. One of you edumacated genious types help me out.

AND if all these groups decide to have seperate proms, where would they have them?

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 13 May 03 - 06:17 PM

I think some exclusive groups such as Bushmanoid and Australoid were on the list.
DNA has fouled up some of this usage, I believe, but a forensic anthropologist is needed to give a current understanding to these terms.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: GUEST,mfdvr
Date: 13 May 03 - 08:52 PM

Q...you have named the lost races. How 'bout Asteroids and Hemorroids (a lot of them heard from in this thread). With all the media attention given to the "whites only" prom:

Where does the NAACP and other black groups stand on this issue and has The Rev Jesse Jackson "flown in to negotiate" (if anybody cares). I may have missed something.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: toadfrog
Date: 14 May 03 - 05:34 PM

I am mystified. Is this thread overrun by trolls, or is it really true that the South has not moved an inch forward in 50 years?

EJ's posts read like tounge-in-cheek stuff to me. Am I missing something? Is there some reason for all that indignation?

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: Kim C
Date: 15 May 03 - 11:41 AM

I've lived in the South all my life and frankly, I'm tired of being the Bad Guy, as if every other state in the freakin' Union is some kind of unconditionally welcoming Utopia.

My youth came after Civil Rights. I have always been around blacks, Asians, Native Americans, Hispanics, you name it. Nashville, TN has one of the fastest-growing Hispanic populations in the US, and THE largest percentage of Kurdish refugees in the country. The lovely new suburban subdivision behind my house is home to people of all nationalities - and I can't afford to buy a house there. So you tell me.

And maybe come down for a visit, and see for yourself.

Are there idiots here? Sure there are. Bet they live in your town, too.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: NicoleC
Date: 15 May 03 - 11:49 AM

Hear, hear, Kim!

I grew up in the south, and everytime some idiot starts droning on about how that's 'just the way it is' and people who don't live there just don't understand, I can tell you from first hand experience that's a load of BS.

Subject: RE: BS: How sad - whites only prom in Georgia
From: sed
Date: 21 Jun 03 - 09:22 AM

Some of this discussion (including the occasional hastily-hurled accusation) reminds me of what Alabama novelist, journalist and lecturer, William Bradford Huie, toward the end of his long life, used to tell his audiences at writer's conferences where he spoke(please forgive my inexcusable paraphrase; maybe you can find the real quote somewhere): "my grandmother taught me to find a few things to love and a few things to hate and to love and to hate them with all of my might, and so that's how I've lived, loving and hating."

We lifelong Southerners have an inexplainable love of our 'native soil' that persists in everything we do and in everything we believe and perceive. I 'know' the incredible problems in the AL/GA border area where I now live but it's my home. I 'own' part of it and I invest it these crazy climes every day. It will never be nivana but it will always be home.

Racism is a way of futilely trying to make order in a disordered world. And so is compassion. I prefer compassion. May we all trust Christ to judge the self-righteous for in time He surely will.

Steve Sedberry
Newell, Alabama