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BS: The Mother of all BS threads

Acme 29 Oct 07 - 11:31 PM
Amos 29 Oct 07 - 08:24 PM
Amos 29 Oct 07 - 03:48 PM
Rapparee 29 Oct 07 - 12:00 PM
Amos 29 Oct 07 - 11:56 AM
Rapparee 29 Oct 07 - 11:50 AM
Amos 29 Oct 07 - 11:45 AM
Little Hawk 29 Oct 07 - 09:59 AM
Donuel 29 Oct 07 - 09:57 AM
Rapparee 29 Oct 07 - 09:10 AM
Amos 29 Oct 07 - 12:14 AM
Acme 28 Oct 07 - 11:59 PM
Rapparee 28 Oct 07 - 10:45 PM
Little Hawk 28 Oct 07 - 10:24 PM
Rapparee 28 Oct 07 - 10:08 PM
Little Hawk 28 Oct 07 - 10:05 PM
Rapparee 28 Oct 07 - 10:01 PM
Little Hawk 28 Oct 07 - 09:57 PM
Amos 28 Oct 07 - 09:14 PM
Little Hawk 28 Oct 07 - 09:06 PM
Rapparee 28 Oct 07 - 08:54 PM
Rapparee 28 Oct 07 - 08:42 PM
Amos 28 Oct 07 - 08:06 PM
Little Hawk 28 Oct 07 - 07:35 PM
Amos 28 Oct 07 - 07:28 PM
Amos 28 Oct 07 - 06:46 PM
Amos 28 Oct 07 - 05:27 PM
Amos 28 Oct 07 - 05:18 PM
Rapparee 28 Oct 07 - 05:02 PM
Amos 28 Oct 07 - 03:19 PM
Acme 28 Oct 07 - 02:19 PM
Little Hawk 28 Oct 07 - 02:03 PM
Amos 28 Oct 07 - 01:24 PM
Amos 28 Oct 07 - 11:19 AM
Little Hawk 28 Oct 07 - 09:47 AM
Amos 28 Oct 07 - 12:50 AM
Acme 27 Oct 07 - 11:39 PM
Rapparee 27 Oct 07 - 10:28 PM
Little Hawk 27 Oct 07 - 10:25 PM
Rapparee 27 Oct 07 - 09:51 PM
Little Hawk 27 Oct 07 - 09:25 PM
Amos 27 Oct 07 - 01:43 PM
Little Hawk 27 Oct 07 - 01:20 PM
Amos 27 Oct 07 - 01:04 PM
Amos 27 Oct 07 - 12:49 PM
Little Hawk 27 Oct 07 - 12:41 PM
Acme 27 Oct 07 - 12:36 PM
Little Hawk 27 Oct 07 - 12:27 PM
Rapparee 27 Oct 07 - 12:14 PM
Little Hawk 27 Oct 07 - 09:25 AM
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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 29 Oct 07 - 11:31 PM

Sorry, Amos. Very nice.

I was away from my computer. I hope you didn't sit there waiting the whole time!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 29 Oct 07 - 08:24 PM

I hate it when that happens. You post a quick, lively rejoinder and it meets a wall of silent seconds, ticking away while it hangs out there, slowly growing stale and dead... What a waste of scintillation!!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 29 Oct 07 - 03:48 PM

I got moe' bius in my little finger than the whole Klein put together!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Oct 07 - 12:00 PM

That mo bius a real klein thing to say, Amos. Thanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 29 Oct 07 - 11:56 AM

Sometimes, Rapaire, you twist so many times in so little space that you make an ass toroid of yourself!!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Oct 07 - 11:50 AM

Comet Holmes. Been watching it on APOD. Discovered by Sherlock Holmes in the 1870s or so, as I remember, and used by James Moriarty as the basis of his work on the dynamics of an asteroid.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 29 Oct 07 - 11:45 AM

Awesome in several respects. The dialogue is a wonderful example of rational international dialogue and contribution -- the posts come from Romania, Mexico, China, and are all focused on-topic. Shows you what's possible.

Comet itself is awe-inspiring.


a


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Oct 07 - 09:59 AM

Very nice.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Oct 07 - 09:57 AM

wanna see a comet that doubled its glow yesterday?

http://www.spaceweather.com/comets/gallery_holmes_page3.htm?PHPSESSID=dtmgjbj2mhfined4duu2k2q0c4


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Oct 07 - 09:10 AM

Dear Mom,

The Mayor has taken it into his little head to have a City Leadership Summit out at Jim Rogers' ranch (vide this Jim Rogers and it starts promptly at noon today. It's just out past Fire Station 5, so it's not far off, but it will run until 8:30 p.m. today and until noon tomorrow. All Department heads and the whole damned City Council is expected to be there, so I will be sorta out of touch for a bit. Please don't punish me for hanging around with politicians and other low-lifes; I'll also be hanging around with Good Folks who work for a living.

I'll pop in and see how you are when I can.

Your fave rave,
Rapaire


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 29 Oct 07 - 12:14 AM

A charming idea, I am sure; but I urge you to think carefully about the consequences. You would be ruining a perfectly workable relationship.

And your dialup would prove most unsatisfactory, I believe, for reasons that would be very hard to diagnose.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 11:59 PM

What a lot of work! The roof and maybe paint, that's as much as I can manage now (and I can't really, I'll have to borrow it from my ROTH IRA).


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 10:45 PM

Invite "Shane" (wherever he is) to use the house when you're not there. You could even get him a cheap pickup to put up on blocks in the driveway, an old fridge on the back patio for beer, and having been to San Diego I can guarentee he can find a skank or two....


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 10:24 PM

You're tempting me...my dachshund would also get to make his unique contributions to Amos' daily existence.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 10:08 PM

Use it as a vacation cabin. Trap a few raccoons and skunks and stretch the hides in the backyard, catch few fish and clean 'em and let the guts ripen up for stink bait...why, the possibilities are endless.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 10:05 PM

Ha! I love the idea!

Only trouble is...Amos is in the USA. Otherwise, I'd do it, but I don't think I want to move to the USA right now. Nope. Just not safe enough, given the present situation.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 10:01 PM

Hey, LH! I just noticed (on another website) that the house next door to Amos' is for sale! With the Canadian dollar at all-time highs, you could snatch it up and become Amos' Next Door Neighbor! (Or Neighbour, if you prefer.)

Just picture Chongo swinging in the trees, taking potshots at that pot of Amos' with his tommygun...or "Shane" dropping by for a few weeks....


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 09:57 PM

Much improved all right, Amos. Archie and Edith "Bunkah" wouldn't even recognize it now. ;-) I like the look of the place. You can tell right away that it's in a warmer climate...just the kind of climate I prefer, in fact.

The stone wall is a great touch.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 09:14 PM

Life itself...ah, there's the rub. Weak crutch, indeed, Rapaire, but transcending it requires the greatest determination and the most intensive physical therapy (in a manner of speaking).

In other news here is what our poor old 60's tract home used to look like -- a sort of Edith Bunker aspiration or something.

And here are some pictures after our recent spate of improvements --including the new low wall in front, a new roof, stucco, windows and driveway. Click on any image for a larger version.

We are satisfied.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 09:06 PM

I remember that scene in "Wind in the Willows". It's an incredibly powerful and moving scene, one that expresses what shines quietly at the heart of life. It is incredibly tragic that some people's missionary zeal against what they term "religion" has blinded them to the sacred and shut their eyes and ears against it.

The Sacred goes so far beyond mere organized religion or religious doctrine...that's what they don't realize. It is confined to no religion. It predates all religion. It is Life itself, and it is what really matters.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 08:54 PM

"What is truth?" asked jesting Pilate.

Truth is what is true, and it's not necessarily factual. Truth and fact are not the same thing. Truth does not contradict or deny facts, but it goes through and beyond facts. This is something that it is very difficult for some people to understand. Truth can be dangerous. If you go beyond the facts, things can happen, like Joshua's [one of her characters] being shot. But wonderful things can happen, too.

In Kenneth Grahame's beautiful book, THE WIND IN THE WILLOWS, Mole and Rat go to the holy island of the great god, Pan. It is a superb piece of religious writing, but because it has gone beyond fact, it is deeply upsetting and untruthful to some people. If a story is not specified as being Christian, it is not Christian. But that is not so.

I think that this scene is upsetting because it calls us beyond fact into the vast world of imagination, and imagination is a word of many dimensions.


                        --Madeline L'Engle, Margaret Edwards Award
                         Acceptance Speech, June 27, 1998

I also refer you to the concept of "ficton."

Reality is a weak crutch, Amos.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 08:42 PM

And the 2,700 acres just west of town, and the 1,700,000+ acres that burned in Idaho and Montana this past summer, and the fires around Amos, have caused my wife and myself to seriously consider "grab and run" boxes, safety deposit boxes, and "what WOULD we take?". And in this thinking we came to realize how many documents are actually stored on public documents: tax records, deeds, mortgages to name but three.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 08:06 PM

As you can see, LH, we are fine, but there is still a lot of hot air moving around San Diego.

We drove to dinner last night to friends who live in Rancho Bernardo, an up-to-date suburb north of here, and by making a wrong turn found ourselves in the north edge, where the fires had struck quite hard. You drive through neatly squared off blocks of nice 3- and 4-bedroom ranch style homes, and suddenly you are in the midst of charred ruination, where every third home or every sixth home is just gone, reduced to black streaks of carbon and gray ash, and a mound of skeletal remnant of what was once someone's proud houseful of belongings, there safe center and their fortress. No more. One family was sitting around in the ashes of their vanished house, having a picnic together as they bravely sifted the ashes.

Often it was a complete mystery how one house had come to be unscathed while its neighbor was decimated. One's bushes were carbonized but their roof and walls looked virginal; the neighbor was a pile of cold smoke. Sometimes three out of ten were lost and the rest untouched -- in other blocks it was one of ten that survived.

None of this, however, came down to our part of the world, which is a bit further west and south; so we are fine, thank you.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 07:35 PM

Say, I guess you did not perish in the smouldering remains of your house, eh, Amos? Made it through okay? No singes on the drapes? Pets in good shape? Canary still breathing?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 07:28 PM

And to make matters worse:

": (1) the clinical literature reveals profound deficits in language only after left-hemisphere damage, but the brain imaging literature shows bilateral activation in most language tasks; (2) language is left-hemisphere dominant in most individuals yet deviation from this pattern does not result in language dysfunction; and (3) lateralization and handedness are related, but the factors that underlie this relation are unknown. "

So there ya go. Major puzzlement. It's always some damn thing.

Fortunately there are still Warriors in Academe who are prepared to cut the Gordion Knot of mindless psychobabble with such bold cleavage as that shown by Agustín Rayo, Massachusetts Institute of Technology (April 2007), who bravely declaims:

" On the one hand, I offer an elucidation of the notion of ontological commitment. On the other, I assess the adequacy of criteria of ontological commitment for different languages. The paper ends with some speculative remarks about the significance of ontological commitment....

an ending, I am sure, for which we are all duly grateful.

These characters never rest in their search for truth, and their exercise of obfuscation in polysyllabic circumlocution. For example, here is the bginning of an article on the impelling subjct of Truthmakers, quickly reduced to ghastly ash by the exerfcise of these pedantic talents:

During the realist revival in the early years of this century, philosophers of various persuasions were concerned to investigate the ontology of truth. That is, whether or not they viewed truth as a correspondence, they were interested in the extent to which one needed to assume the existence of entities serving some role in accounting for the truth of sentences. Certain of these entities, such as the Sätze an sich of Bolzano, the Gedanken of Frege, or the propositions of Russell and Moore, were conceived as the bearers of the properties of truth and falsehood. Some thinkers however, such as Russell, Wittgenstein in the Tractatus, and Husserl in the Logische Untersuchungen, argued that instead of, or in addition to, truth-bearers, one must assume the existence of certain entities in virtue of which sentences and/or propositions are true. Various names were used for these entities, notably 'fact', 'Sachverhalt', and 'state of affairs'.(1) In order not to prejudge the suitability of these words we shall initially employ a more neutral terminology, calling any entities which are candidates for this role truth-makers.(2)

The fall from favour of logical realism brought with it a corresponding decline of interest in the ontology of truth. The notions of correspondence and indeed of truth itself first of all came to appear obscure and 'metaphysical'. Then Tarski's work, while rehabilitating the idea of truth, seemed to embody a rejection of a full-blooded correspondence.(3) In the wake of Tarski, philosophers and logicians have largely turned their attentions away from the complex and bewildering difficulties of the relations between language and the real world, turning instead to the investigation of more tractable set-theoretic surrogates. Work along these lines has indeed expanded to the extent where it can deal with a large variety of modal, temporal, counterfactual, intentional, deictic, and other sentence-types. However, while yielding certain insights into the structures of language, such semantic investigations avoid the problem of providing an elucidation of the basic truth-relation itself. In place of substantive accounts of this relation, as proffered by the Tractatus or by chapter II of Principia Mathematica,(4) we are left with such bloodless pseudo-elucidations as: a monadic predication 'Pa' is true if a is a member of the set which is the extension of 'P'. Whatever their formal advantages, approaches of this kind do nothing to explain how sentences about the real world are made true or false. For the extension of 'P' is simply the set of objects such that, if we replace 'x' in 'Px' by a name of the object in question, we get a true sentence. Set-theoretic elucidations of the basic truth-relation can, it would seem, bring us no further forward.


This is why Rapaire and I are always butting heads, in case that is not obvious. Talk about bloodless pseudo-elucidations!! (A lovely flower of phrase found unexpectedly in a bog of cognitive miasma).

Hey, Mom!! It's a quiet post-catastophic day of rest here in sleepy San Diego, where the sun never stops. How're things where you are?

A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 06:46 PM

When the subject turns to nearly-lost languages, and the pre-history of languages, as it often does almost anywhere you go anymore, the following comments on gramatical analysis are of interest:

"The syntactic principles of a language may insist on some order of words or may allow several options. For instance, English sentences normally must have words in the order Subject-Verb-Object. In Whales eat plankton, 'whales' is the subject, 'eat' is the verb, and 'plankton' is the object. Japanese sentences allow the words to occur in several possible orders, but the normal arrangement (when no special emphasis is intended) is Subject-Object-Verb. Irish sentences standardly have words in the order Verb-Subject-Object. Even when a language allows several orders of phrases in the sentence, the choice among them is systematically regulated. For example, there might be a requirement that the first phrase refer to the thing you're talking about, or that whatever the first phrase is, the second must be the main clause verb.

Not only does every language have syntax, but similar syntactic principles are found over and over again in languages. Word order is strikingly similar in English, Swahili, and Thai (which are utterly unrelated); sentences in Irish are remarkably parallel to those in Maori, Maasai, and ancient Egyptian (also unrelated); and so on." (Emphasis added).

This is quite fascinating -- why these diverse groupings with no known lineage joining them should have close parallelism in their grammars, and radical differences from other languages that would seem to be closer to them in evolution, such as English and Irish, or Swahili and Maasai.

I was going to ask Mom, who Knows All, but she i still asleep, it seems.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 05:27 PM

And THAT is how you capture the really rare numbers like

20360,

ripe and redolent with self-referential richness.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 05:18 PM

Some there are who suffer from sea-sickness; and others, from C-flatulence. But no-one known to see sharp has been ill-served by it, to my knowledge.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 05:02 PM

Kinda like a C-flat, huh?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 03:19 PM

WHEN I consider how my light is spent        
E're half my days, on this dark thread and wide,        
And that one Talent which is death to hide,        
Lodg'd with me useless, though my Soul more bent        
To serve therewith my Mother, and present                 
My true account, least she returning chide,        
Doth Mom exact day-labour, light deny'd,        
I fondly ask; But patience to prevent        
That murmur, soon replies, Mom needs not most        
Either man's work or her own gifts, who best           
Bear her milde yoak, they serve her best, her State        
Is as a Queen. Thousands at her bidding post        
And post o're Land and Ocean without rest:        
They also serve who only stand and waite.        

John Popanover Milton, Sonnets


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 02:19 PM

She was just enjoying a nap on a crisp fall day. Didn't you notice she'd pulled out a light blanket and there were a couple of cats curled nearby?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 02:03 PM

Indeed...she has been rendered, for a time, comatose. But I'm sure that will change.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 01:24 PM

Once more the thread is silent, and half-blind
Under the quieted storm of heart, and mind,
Our Mom now rests; here in her quietude,
Dormant from over-eating rich BS-filled food,
Nothing but instants, circuits, and the BS ghost
Stands between her slumber and another post.

Hialso Waytes
Who Only Stands to Serve
Macleish Alterations and Fitting,
Brooklyn, 1947


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 11:19 AM

The answer to your puzzle, dear Rapaire,
Is one plays D# simply because it's there.
The rarest bird in all of Music's fountain,
Must be confronted, like a famous mountain.
And if you flinch, and throw it in the shiitter,
To flee D#, then you are but a quitter.

Wolfgang Adam-Eius Moat's Art


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 09:47 AM

Be cool. Be subtle. Be daring. B-flat.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 28 Oct 07 - 12:50 AM

The truth is in this world, it's either C# or B-flat.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 27 Oct 07 - 11:39 PM

If you don't like D# then consider Eb instead.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Oct 07 - 10:28 PM

Yes, but that would be a Canadian D#.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Oct 07 - 10:25 PM

Phone me. I will play you a D# over the phone and resolve your confusion.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Oct 07 - 09:51 PM

I haven't understood anything at all for quite some time now. I pose the question, "Why?" and the Universe remains silent or, worse, replies with an off-key D# or a simple, unending, scream of terror (or both). I mean, when was the last time you played a D#? WHY would anyone play a D#? That would like an Gdim sus A7 or something. Beethoven's "Symphony No. 10 in D#, Op. 1198, K. 197564"? Mozart's "Virginal Concerto in D#"?
Bob Dylan's "Dream No. 78 in D#"?

No, I haven't understood anything for some time.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Oct 07 - 09:25 PM

Ha! The glory of Babelfish.


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 27 Oct 07 - 01:43 PM

Well, old soul, it comes out like this:


Pox in the account a D and all this remaining varlets reductionist for, as one always tried, how much parts of empirical obviousness can have dipped poised in the head of any metaphorical pin it quivering in the dry and sterile map of its argument to count.
...



A sentiment with which I would most whole heartedly enjoy agreeing, could I but understand it.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Oct 07 - 01:20 PM

Ah! Well put, Amos. Masterfully put! A pox on Bill D and all those other reductionist varlets, forever trying to count how many pieces of empirical evidence can be poised on the head of some metaphorical pin that they have plunged, quivering into the dry and barren map of their argument.

Man, I hate to think how Babelfish would mangle that last post of yours were it to go three 3 or 4 language translations. Or that first sentence of mine, for that matter. ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 27 Oct 07 - 01:04 PM

I have discovered the most remeakable answer to the long convoluted threads in which Little Hawk and I -- like bonded heros of ancient times -- have held our stance, back to back, swinging our vorpal blades against the bitter, methodical, materialistic probability theory of such curmudgeons as Bill D. and his ilk, who endlessly seek to rebut the notion of any spiritual existence or ability.

The answer lies in an understanding of computational theory and the nature of Turing machines.

From Wikipedia, the following observations can be found:

"1. Anything a real computer can compute, a Turing machine can also compute. For example: "A Turing machine can simulate any type of subroutine found in programming languages, including recursive procedures and any of the known parameter-passing mechanisms" (Hopcroft and Ullman p. 157). Thus, a statement about the limitations of Turing machines will also apply to real computers.

2. The difference lies only with the ability of a Turing machine to manipulate an unbounded amount of data. However, given a finite amount of time, a Turing machine (like a real machine) can only manipulate a finite amount of data.

3. Like a Turing machine, a real machine can have its storage space enlarged as needed, by acquiring more disks or other storage media. If the supply of these runs short, the Turing machine may become less useful as a model. But the fact is that neither Turing machines nor real machines need astronomical amounts of storage space in order to perform useful computation. The processing time required is usually much more of a problem.

4. Turing machines describe algorithms independent of how much memory they utilize. There is a limit to the memory possessed by any current machine, but this limit can rise arbitrarily in time. Turing machines allow us to make statements about algorithms which will (theoretically) hold forever, regardless of advances in conventional computing machine architecture."

The key lies in item #2, which points out that a Turing machine -- the embodiment and seed-bed of the whole field of computational theory and information processing -- is constrained to operate with finite data sets. This of course makes sense. Unlimited data sets completely contradict the fundamental concept of computation in time arriving at a result.

But what Little Hawk understands, Lord bless him, is that it is the soul that is itself both the generator and appreciator of data, and brings it into existence in instants of creation in the fiery flux of raw experience.

By definition, therefore, the data set relating to this numinous Self is unlimited and therefore cannot be approximated by any computational method derived from a Turing machine; and as a corollary, is also capable of states beyond those which any Turing based state-machine can embrace in its set of possible solutions, or describe in its algorithm-derived set of possible outputs.

This explains the magic of MOAB; it is a non-algorithmic repository of created reality-states safely embedded in the spidery webs of a cyber-environment which, in turn, is erected and presumably safeguarded by Turing machines! A lovely apparent paradox, easily dispelled but amusing in its presumption.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Amos
Date: 27 Oct 07 - 12:49 PM

Dear George,

It bemuses me, in sooth, to have somehow become the article of focus of your wrath and your antagonism against the sins of your own imagination. I suppose, in a subtle and indirect way, it is some form of compliment that I have been elected to represent the target of your many understandable resentments, because it implies somehow that I have taken on an importance comparable to the other inventions in your busy world. To be raised thusly to the importance of such luminaries as Chongo and Chinga, Shane and the fictitious Shatner is really quite flattering, even if placed more as counterpart than companion.

Nevertheless, I urge you to take up the study of some form of engineering as a remedy to your tendency to overheat in these marvelous bursts of creativity. It will serve as a stabilizing influence to take on some field of effort that depends on proof, at least in actual application in an agreed-upon time-space continuum.

With warm regards,

Amos
Chief Poseur
Intercultural Pretense Incorporated
Creators of Fine Artificial Identities and Persuasive Poses for the Discriminating Executive

"If you must pose, do it with style--from I.P.I!!"


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Oct 07 - 12:41 PM

LOL! The more florid the prose, the more incomprehensible the Babelfish translation. Imagine what would happen if you ran some of Amos' more serious writings through the same process... ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Acme
Date: 27 Oct 07 - 12:36 PM

Here it is in French:

J'ai eu de la honte par le passé, mais elle s'est évaporée dans le néant quand j'étais témoin avec l'horreur et la consternation croissante les parodies grotesques a infligé sur le monde par les canailles calomnieuses comme ce camarade, AMOS. Quel poseur ! Quel maître de cowflop et de blathertwaddle inexprimable a vêtu en langue de fantaisie ! L'imbécile achevé ose proposer que je sois responsable des "freds". Codswallop ! Je ne suis pas responsable des "freds". Je n'ai rien à faire avec les origines des "freds". Je dédaigne des "freds" des profondeurs de mon être et toujours ai fait ainsi. les "freds" n'existent pas pour moi, excepté comme rumeur creuse d'une notion vide qui des échos vainly et inutile dans les extensions uttermost d'un esprit banal qui babille dessus à lui-même dans une certaine sorte de vide conceptuel inconnu.

And Greek (always one of my favorite languages to not understand):

Είχα μια ντροπή από το παρελθόν, αλλά έχει εξατμιστεί μέσα στο τίποτα πότε ήμουν tιmoin με τη φρίκη και την αύξουσα κατάπληξη οι τραγελαφικές παρωδίες έχω επιβάλει στον κόσμο από τις συκοφαντηκές μηχανορραφίες όπως αυτός ο σύντροφος, AMOS. Quel διάταξη σε στρώματα ! Quel maξtre του cowflop και blathertwaddle απερίγραπτου στο vκtu στη γλώσσα της φαντασίας ! Που ολοκληρώνεται imbιcile τολμά να προτείνει ότι είμαι υπεύθυνος "freds >. Codswallop ! Δεν είμαι υπεύθυνος "freds >. Δεν έχω τίποτα να κάνει με την προέλευση "freds >. Περιφρονώ "freds > των βαθών κtre μου και πάντα έχω κάνει έτσι" freds > δεν υπάρχω για με, εξαιρουμένου όπως κοίλη rumeur μιας άδειας έννοιας που ηχώ vainly και άχρηστος μέσα στις επεκτάσεις uttermost ενός κοινότοπου πνεύματος που φλυαρεί ανωτέρω σε ο ίδιος μέσα σε ένα κάποιο είδος του εννοιολογικού κενού άγνωστος.

And back to English:

I had a shame from the past, but has been evaporated in in nothing when I was been tjmoin with the horror and the serial astonishment the tragelafjke's parodies I have imposed in the world from the sykofantike's machinations as this companion, AMOS. Quel provision in layers! Quel maxtre cowflop and blathertwaddle aperj'graptoy in the vktu in language of imagination! That is completed imbjcile it dares it proposes that I am responsible "freds. Codswallop! I am not responsible "freds. I do not have nothing it makes with the origin "freds. Perjfronw' of "freds my depths ktre and always I have made thus" freds I do not exist for with, excluded as concave rumeur a empty significance where echo vainly and useless in in the extensions of uttermost banal spirit where flyarej' above in the himself in a certain type of conceptual void unknown.

Here's the original:

I had some shame once, but it evaporated into nothingness when I witnessed with horror and increasing dismay the grotesque travesties inflicted on the world by scurrilous scoundrels like this fellow, Amos. What a poseur! What a master of cowflop and unutterable blathertwaddle clothed in fancy language! The arrant fool dares to suggest that I am responsible for "freds". Codswallop! I am not responsible for "freds". I have nothing to do with the origins of "freds". I despise "freds" from the depths of my being and always have done so. "freds" do not exist for me, except as the hollow rumor of an empty notion that echoes vainly and uselessly in the uttermost reaches of a banal mind which babbles on to itself in some sort of nameless conceptual void.

I notice that Babel Fish is onto this game--it provided the original English text when I converted from one to another without opening a fresh window. It gave me the original English text when I came back around. But I figured out how to make it work a little harder to add in the usual confusion to make it a really good translation of florid language!


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Oct 07 - 12:27 PM

Don't I know it! Chongo is here, eating me out of house and home and attracting occasional raids from old enemies, most of whom seem to be gorillas! I get postcards and handwritten letters from Penelope Rutledge telling me how wonderful life is in the Cotswolds and what an ass her husband is. William Shatner would call me more often, but he's terribly busy right now. Shane still owes me $20 which I foolishly lent him in a weak moment. My life is in a state of confusion, and it's all because of these various created characters.

But I have received no input of any recognizable sort from freds. I do not believe in freds. I think freds is a creation of some total idiot, someone without even a shred of mental ability or moral fiber, a drooling, knuckle-dragging ingrate of the lowest sort, a shambling, incoherent and probably impotent fencepost of a person, only fit to be peed on by a passing dog.

Who could it be?


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Oct 07 - 12:14 PM

LH, perhaps the freds feel the same way about you. A creation can take on a life after its creator, you know (just look at the newspaper comics).


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Subject: RE: BS: The Mother of all BS threads
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Oct 07 - 09:25 AM

No, I was just having some fun with the florid language... ;-) Not bad, eh?


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