Minor keys and chords on harmonica

Subject: Minor keys and chords on harmonica
From: Jeep man
Date: 21 May 03 - 08:33 PM

I have been tinkering with Harmonicas lately and have not discovered how to play in minor keys. IE; I play a song which is sung in Am. How do I get Am on the Harp.

The web is full of good lessons, but this point still stumps me. Jeep

Subject: RE: Minor keys and chords on harmonica
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 21 May 03 - 09:09 PM

Use a C harp.

Start on A, you are now minor.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Minor keys and chords on harmonica
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 21 May 03 - 09:17 PM

You will find your A-hole tech here:
http://www.harmonicalessons.com/theory/layout.html

This is a GRAND location to begin.

In "the field" nothing has brought me greater pleasure per ounce than my Hohner Marine Band.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Minor keys and chords on harmonica
From: Jeep man
Date: 21 May 03 - 09:26 PM

Really good you guys. Thanks, Jim

Subject: RE: Minor keys and chords on harmonica
From: Kudzuman
Date: 21 May 03 - 10:14 PM

If you would like to be completely blown away (pun intended), then check out Mike Stevens!! This guy is unreal! Caught him at the Pangaea World Fest at Jonesborough, TN 1st weekend in May. Whoa and Wow!! Bought his CD "The World is Only Air...and a Very Dangerous Hat". It's on the Borealis Label from Canada. www.borealisrecords.com
A truly monstrous harmonica player. All on a 10 hole harp.... trust me, this guy ain't from Earth... Wow again!!


Kudzuman

Subject: RE: Minor keys and chords on harmonica
From: RangerSteve
Date: 21 May 03 - 11:53 PM

Lee Oskar makes minor key harmonicas. I haven't tried them yet, so I can't tell you much about them.

Subject: RE: Minor keys and chords on harmonica
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 22 May 03 - 12:25 AM

Guess what little Stevie - I bet those "minor key harmonicas" can play a major also!

Sincerely,

Gargoyle

an ignorant public is an easy sucker for any scam.

Subject: RE: Minor keys and chords on harmonica
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 22 May 03 - 12:39 AM

G'day Jeep Man,

Hohner have also made minor key mouthorgans for (almost) ever. I bought a few of them (in their Orchester model) in the 1960s ... but they are a rather more "European" minor ... maybe more inclined to the "harmonic' minor scale than the 'melodic' minor ... although that, strictly speaking, requires a couple of semitones, since the scale is different ascending and descending!

Whenever I tried to play my sort of minor keys they didn't cooperate ... but they seemed to play Hava Negilah on autopilot!

Back in the days of the Harmonica Orchestras and Bands - the 1920s and '30s ... before the Chromatic ... a fully equipped orchestra/band player had, in front of him, two trays, each of 12 harmonicas - one in each major - and minor - key (as well as the odd chording or bass model!). I have a few photographs of such groups in the history books - and a drawing of the same sort decorated the boxes in which Orchester harmonicas came.

I suspect that Lee Oskar's minor models would be in a straightforward 'Aeolian' minor tuning, but I haven't played one - nor seen a tuning diagram. (I must see if they have a diagram on a web site, somewhere.)

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Minor keys and chords on harmonica
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 22 May 03 - 12:42 AM

G'day Garg,

The main thrust (as it were) of the "minor" models was to give the minor notes on the blow, rather than the draw ... and, one hopes, to group the notes into more appropriate chording groups.

That said, I still haven't found a tuning diagram, so it's all speculation.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Minor keys and chords on harmonica
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 22 May 03 - 01:53 AM

G'day again Jeep Man & Gargoyle,

I finally coaxed by ISP to look at:
Lee Oskar Site
and they certainly have come up with new and different tunings!

I think I'll need to ponder those tuning charts for a while to fully comprehend their significance ... and I'll probably stick to coaxing what I want out of the standard 10-hole harmonica!

Regard(les)s,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Minor keys and chords on harmonica
From: Les from Hull
Date: 22 May 03 - 01:51 PM

Of course it depends what you mean by minor! Most Irish tunes in Am you would play on a G harmonica.

Subject: RE: Minor keys and chords on harmonica
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 23 May 03 - 12:42 AM

Mr. Hull, PLEASE Extrapolate, and ellucidate, (at least this poor individual, ignorant, soul....regarding your posting.

Sincerely

Gargoyle

Always eager to learn.

Subject: RE: Minor keys and chords on harmonica
From: greg stephens
Date: 23 May 03 - 05:32 AM

A G harp is definitely the instrument for most Irish tunes in Aminor(ditto a D harp for an Eminor tune). Most Irish and English tunes use F#, not F natural, in Aminor tunes, so the G instrument has all the right notes. And for thickening up your sound with a bit of harmony, the way the notes lie are perfect too. The implied harmonies in the tunes tend to revolve round Aminor and G chords, and youve got the GBD on the blow for your G chord, and ACE on the suck for your Aminor. A doddle!

Subject: RE: Minor keys and chords on harmonica
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 23 May 03 - 06:48 AM

G'day Les, Garg & greg,

Most Irish 'minors' turn out to be Dorian mode, not Aeolian mode. The Dorian mode was #1 mode in the Gregorian modes ... and remains very strong in traditions drawing on very old Catholic traditions ... many northern European cultures ... and the Irish.

The "Richter tuning system" - that of the 10-hole harmonica, the melodeon/button accordion and the German/Anglo concertina is beautifully set up to play Dorian modes as the second key for the instrument. Playing Aeolian mode - the typical 'minor' of more southern European/British/'American' styles is much more trouble ... and may well be better served by one of Lee Oskar's redesigns ... but it gets a bit like guitarists arguing the relative merits if "dadgad' vs 'dadgbe' (or a dozen other modifications).

At least guitarists can retune! I'm sticking with tricking out the tunes I want from the standard little 10-hole harmonica ... playing may get more complex (well ... tricky!) - but the instrument drawer/cupboard stays simple.

Regards,
bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Minor keys and chords on harmonica
From: GUEST,Peter T.
Date: 23 May 03 - 12:22 PM

The key thing with standard harmonicas is to keep in mind that to get minors you often can only play 2 of the three notes, and sometimes only one, of the chord. You are implying the rest of the chord. You need to get the notes of the chords in your head to do this right. On a C harmonica, suppose you want Eminor, you can get E and G (2 of the notes for E minor (E,G, and B) quite easy (2,3 blow; 5,6 blow, etc). In fact, whatever you do on holes 2 and 3, blow or draw, you are in Emin (everything is an E,G, or a B). For an Am, you can get A (6 draw), and that is it there, except that the C,E of the chord are available together next door, (7,8, or 4,5) by blowing.
It is worth pointing out that on a standard C harmonica, your 4,5, and 6 draws are already Dminor. So, say you are in D minor, and suppose you want to find a Gm, for a blues, or just a minor song, the notes you need are G, Bb, and D (and an F if you want a Gm7). You can't get them all in one big draw or blow. So you have to find the note that best implies Gm in the song you are doing (you can only get a Bb by bending). And so on. Bob Dylan is an absolute master at this!!!!!yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Minor keys and chords on harmonica
From: GUEST,Peter T.
Date: 23 May 03 - 12:26 PM

I am of course speaking here only of chords, not of scales. Gargoyle rightly points out that if you start on A, and work up the C major scale to the next A, you are in the key of Aminor. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Minor keys and chords on harmonica
From: Jeep man
Date: 23 May 03 - 07:20 PM

Anyone but me remember when they were called"French Harps"? Jeep

Subject: RE: Minor keys and chords on harmonica
From: Dipsodeb
Date: 24 May 03 - 07:47 AM

hi jeep man.
I dont know about anyone else but, when I have brought some harp's you sometimes get a bit of paper in the box with it, and if you actually look at it you will find that, there is a list on there which tells you all the cross keys and everything. I have one which I refer to all the time, as im an musically illiterate, it's a boon. the only thing I know is for blues you wack it up three keys, and the rest I use my bit of paper. if this bit of paper is of any help, please PM me and I will scan it and e-mail it to you. good luck,
pat.

Subject: RE: Minor keys and chords on harmonica
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 04:19 AM

if you play on a G harmonica, starting on draw 4 you are in fact playing in a dorian, a b c d e fsharp g a,which as greg stephens points out one of the most used keys in irish trad music.
a minor chords are often used on the guitar [although a modal does also]but it is still a dorian ,flatted third and seventh.

Subject: RE: Minor keys and chords on harmonica
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 06:56 AM

Dorian is more common than minor in most European folk music, and hexatonic tunes with no sixth (so they could be either) are even more common. But you do need to do all of them; some tunes guitarist would call "A minor" need a C moothie and some need a G. The modes tutorial on my website will help you identify which is which - most of the examples are Scottish.

http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/

I don't play the moothie myself, but I play with a diatonic moothie player every week. He has the Lee Oskar C minor and F minor moothies but they nearly always stay in the bag.

Subject: RE: Minor keys and chords on harmonica
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 06:57 AM

I "sing" Baker Street(Gerry Rafferty) in "A" and use a "C" harmonica (with the neck halter) for the "brass" solo with reasonable results. (Wouldn't have the nerve to try it on stage). Its only a minor matter.

Subject: RE: Minor keys and chords on harmonica
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Dec 06 - 07:12 AM

those that are played on a c mouthie wouyld be anA mode with a flattened six as well as third and seven.
the most problematical mode on major keyvampers[ blues harps is][ mixolydian flat 7].

Subject: RE: Minor keys and chords on harmonica
From: Tootler
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 06:59 AM

You can find a variety of tunings for a 10 Hole diatonic moothie here