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Lyr Req: Dunn, Gilbert and Ben Hall (Wyndham-Read)

skw@worldmusic.de 16 Aug 98 - 01:54 PM
dick greenhaus 16 Aug 98 - 02:09 PM
Bob Bolton 16 Aug 98 - 07:18 PM
Bob Bolton 16 Aug 98 - 07:48 PM
Bob Bolton 17 Aug 98 - 06:44 PM
skw@worldmusic.de 21 Aug 98 - 03:05 AM
Bob Bolton 07 Sep 98 - 02:30 AM
Bob Bolton 07 Sep 98 - 07:09 PM
Ezio 08 Sep 98 - 02:47 AM
sk@worldmusic.de 08 Sep 98 - 03:32 AM
GUEST,John Carroll - Canberra 03 May 11 - 04:10 AM
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Subject: Lyr Add: DUNN, GILBERT AND BEN HALL (Wyndham-Read)
From: skw@worldmusic.de
Date: 16 Aug 98 - 01:54 PM

Could anyone help me with the words of a song about Ben Hall? It's not among the ones in the DT:
'Dunn, Gilbert and Ben Hall', sung by Martyn Wyndham-Read, probably from his album 'Ned Kelly and the Gang' (1970).
The words I've taken down are rather patchy, so I'll submit them and hope for corrections from the wonderfully knowledgeable Mudcat community ...

Come all you sons of liberty and listen to my tale
A story of bushranging days I will to you unveil
'Tis all about those heroes, God bless them one and all
We'll sit and sing, God save the King, Dunn, Gilbert, and Ben Hall

Ben Hall he was a squatter who owned six hundred head
A peaceful and a quiet man until he met Sir Fred
The troopers burned his homestead down, his cattle perished all
I've all my sentence yet to earn, was the word of bright Ben Hall

John Gilbert was a flashy cow(?) and young O'Meally too
With Ben and Buck and Dunn and Bain they were old comrades true
They bailed the Cackle(?) mailcoach up and made the troopers crawl
There's a thousand pounds set on our heads, said Dunn, Gilbert, and Ben Hall

Then back and down to Gilbin town(?) they've made the coaches stand
While far behind Sir Frederick's men were labouring through the land
Then at Canowindra's best hotel they gave a public ball
We don't (?) the ones that don't (?) us, were the words of bright Ben Hall

They held a (?) at a ransom on the spot
'Twas Johnny Bain surrendered after Micky Bird was shot
O'Meally at going in, the lad it like a hero fought
But we'll take the country over yet, said Dunn, Gilbert, and Ben Hall

They never robbed a needy man, the record's sure to show
Though staunch and loyal to their mates and flinching(?) to their foe
So we'll drink a toast tonight, my lads, the beverage surely calls(?)
Let's sit and sing, God save the King, Dunn, Gilbert, and Ben Hall

The tune is the one I know for 'The Man With the Dreadful Knob' (The Button Pusher) by Enoch Kent, but I suppose he used a traditional one as the above song must certainly be older. - Thanks to you all, Susanne


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Subject: RE: Ben Hall Song - Help wanted
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 16 Aug 98 - 02:09 PM

If you try a search for [Ben Hall], you'll find four songs mentioning the gentleman, including one called "Ben Hall".


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Subject: RE: Ben Hall Song - Help wanted
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 16 Aug 98 - 07:18 PM

G'day Susanne,

I will look that one up at home in Ron Edwards' Bicentennial Index to Australian Folk Songs (I couldn't afford his last multi-volume opus). If Martyn sang it in ~1970, the song will be in the index and (almost certainly) somewhere on my bookshelves. I haven't heard Martyn sing this particular one but I am fairly sure I also have an Australian recording of the song.

The tunes to genuine (contemporary) Ben Hall songs tens to be from the Irish tradition but music hall tunes were starting to creep in by the 1860s, so the tune could be one that carried on on the stage traditions. If I find a written tune, I will code it in and post the MIDI/ABC ... when I finally get my home computer back from "the upgrade from hell" - well, at least one that has been done in his spare time by a computer engineering friend and has encountered more things to go wrong than even Murphy could imagine!

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Ben Hall Song - Help wanted
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 16 Aug 98 - 07:48 PM

G'day again Susanne,

It occurs to me that I should correct some of the points now (I might get a few more corrections when I find the particular version of the song, but these will do for now.)

Come all you sons of liberty and listen to my tale
A story of bushranging days I will to you unveil
'Tis all about those heroes, God bless them one and all
We'll sit and sing, God save the King, Dunn, Gilbert, and Ben Hall

Ben Hall he was a squatter who owned six hundred head
A peaceful and a quiet man until he met Sir Fred
The troopers burned his homestead down, his cattle perished all
I've all my sentence yet to earn, was the word of bright Ben Hall

John Gilbert was a flashy cove(*) and young O'Meally too
With Ben and Buck (?) and Dunn and Vane (*) they were all (*) comrades true
They bailed the Carcoar(*) mailcoach up and made the troopers crawl
There's a thousand pounds set on our heads, said Dunn, Gilbert, and Ben Hall

Then back and down to Goulburn town(*) they've made the coaches stand
While far behind Sir Frederick's men were labouring through the land
Then at Canowindra's best hotel they gave a public ball
We don't (?) the ones that don't (?) us, were the words of bright Ben Hall

They held a (?) at a ransom on the spot
'Twas Johnny Vane (*) surrendered after Micky Bourke (*) was shot
O'Meally at going in,(**) the lad it like a hero fought
But we'll take the country over yet, said Dunn, Gilbert, and Ben Hall

They never robbed a needy man, the record's sure to show
Though staunch and loyal to their mates unflinching(*) to their foe
So we'll drink a toast tonight, my lads, the beverage surely calls(?) Let's sit and sing, God save the King, Dunn, Gilbert, and Ben Hall

Cove is early Australian (British) slang for a man. A Flash(y) Cove is a man with a fancy taste in dress.
Carcoar is a small town west of Bathurst, well west of Sydney
Goulburn is a larger town south west of Sydney, on the Hume Highway - the main road to Melbourne.
Johnny Vane was arrested - I have seen his name carved on a door in the Hartley lock-up on the road back to Sydney from Bathurst.
(**) I think the song actually says something like Goaimballa - a locality at which the troopers intercepted the Hall Gang.
I notice you got Canowindra down correctly - I suspect that is because Martyn pronounces it as written "can-oh-wind-ra" not as the locals do: "can-oun-dra".

I will be back with more accurate details.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: Lyr Add: DUNN, GILBERT AND BEN HALL
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 17 Aug 98 - 06:44 PM

G'day Susanne,

Here are the original published words of the Ben Hall Song that Martyn sings on your recording. I can't do any MIDI/ABC of the two different tunes until I finally get my home computer back from its ill-starred update. Reading (and typing) the words, I realise that my own version differs slightly from both versions.

DUNN, GILBERT AND BEN HALL
(John Manifold composite)

Come all you sons of liberty and listen to my tale
A story of bushranging days I will to you unveil.
'Tis of those valiant heroes, God bless them one and all!
We'll sit and sing: 'God save the King, Dunn, Gilbert, and Ben Hall.'

Ben Hall he was a squatter, and he owned six hundred head;
A peaceful, quiet man was he until he met Sir Fred.
The troopers burned his homestead down, his cattle perished all.
'I've all my sentence yet to earn, was the word of brave Ben Hall.

John Gilbert was a flash cove, and young O'Meally too,
With Ben and Bourke and Dunn and Vane they all were comrades true.
They bailed the Carcoar mailcoach up and made the troopers crawl.
There's a thousand pound set on the heads of Dunn, Gilbert, and Ben Hall

From Bathurst down to Goulburn town they made the coaches stand,
While far behind, Sir Frederick's men were labouring thro' the land
Then at Canowindra's best hotel they gave a public ball:
We don't hurt them that don't hurt us, says Dunn, Gilbert, and Ben Hall.

They held the Gold Commissioner to ransom on the spot ,
But young John Vane surrendered after Micky Bourke was shot.
O'Meally at Goimbla did like a hero fall;
But 'We'll take the country over yet,' says Dunn, Gilbert, and Ben Hall.

They never robbed a needy man, the records go to show,
Though staunch and loyal to their mates, unflinching(*) to the foe;
So we'll drink a toast tonight, my lads, their memories to recall.
Let us sit and sing: 'God save the King, Dunn, Gilbert, and Ben Hall!'

Australian folklorist John Manifold made a workable set of words from a composite of words collected by the poet A.B. 'Banjo' Paterson (published in 'Old Bush Songs' c. 1905) and another song in Frank Clune's book 'Wild Colonial Boys'. In his 'The Penguin Australian Songbook', North Blackburn, Victoria, 1964, he gives two tunes from 1,000 miles apart.

The tune Martyn probably uses (as far as I remember - I last heard him sing this about 1979) is from two people in Wynnum, north of Brisbane and 500 miles NNE of Forbes, where Hall was shot. The second tune is from a man living on King Island, Bass Strait - 500 miles SSW of Forbes! Martyn's tune is probably 'The Airy Bachelor' or 'The Black Horse' and the second tune is one of those for '(Rise Up Now,) William Riley'.

The words appear to date from the re-formation of the gang, when Dunn joined Gilbert and Hall, in May 1864 and the shooting of Hall in May 1865

Goimbla is indeed the place where O'Meally was shot but I can't locate it on a detailed map of the Forbes area. There is a Conimbla National Park, which contains a cave said to have been used as a hideout by Ben Hall (what cave wasn't - or doesn't lay the claim?). It could be that both words are attempts at pronouncing an Aboriginal name for the locality.

I have given the words exactly as published by Manifold but Martyn's words probably differ in places since he seems to have relied on memory, not books or notes - thus keeping the folk processes aboil!

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Ben Hall Song - Help wanted
From: skw@worldmusic.de
Date: 21 Aug 98 - 03:05 AM

Bob - thanks a lot for your help. It never ceases to amaze me what remote pieces of knowledge members of the Mudcat community will come up with, and the way you are always ready to give of your time and resources. Somebody wrote in another thread recently that she felt secure with this site. That's what I feel, too. Thanks to you all. Also, it's marvellous finding people actually and actively interested in the backgrounds of songs. I don't see much of that at home in Northern Germany.
And, Bob, I do hope your computer will soon be satisfactorily upgraded - on your behalf as much as on everybody else's! :) - Susanne


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Subject: RE: Ben Hall Song - Help wanted
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 07 Sep 98 - 02:30 AM

G'day Suzanne,

I just realised that I had not come back with my promised ABC/MIDI of the tune. I now have the old computer back - much sprightlier after a brain/heart/lung (read: CPU-Motherboard/RAM/Hard Disk) transplant. I shall see how the writtem tunes compare with Martyn's and post the best version.

By the way, some of these pieces of knowledge are not always so remote as they look. One set of my great, great grandparents, on my mother's side, were married in the Catholic Church in Bathurst in 1856 - the same church and the same year that Ben Hall married Bridget! To increase the busgranging link, it seems reasonably sure that my great, great grandmother, nee Anne Quinn, was sister to Ellen Quinn - the mother of Ned Kelly ... our last and most (in)famous bushranger. This makes Ned my first cousin four times removed!

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: Tune Add: DUNN, GILBERT AND BEN HALL
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 07 Sep 98 - 07:09 PM

G'day Susanne .. yet again,

This time I'll get the spelling right (I must have a an overactive, automatic s to z correction, when writing to Americans!).

Here are the MIDI/ABC files for the two Ballad of Ben Hall tunes described in my 17 August posting above:

MIDI file: BALL-BH1.mid

Timebase: 240

TimeSig: 4/4 24 8
Tempo: 120 (500000 microsec/crotchet)
Start
0720 1 64 080 0096 0 64 064 0024 1 65 080 0096 0 65 064 0024 1 67 080 0288 0 67 064 0072 1 67 080 0096 0 67 064 0024 1 64 080 0192 0 64 064 0048 1 72 080 0192 0 72 064 0048 1 71 080 0288 0 71 064 0072 1 71 080 0096 0 71 064 0024 1 62 080 0192 0 62 064 0048 1 62 080 0096 0 62 064 0024 1 64 080 0096 0 64 064 0024 1 65 080 0192 0 65 064 0048 1 62 080 0192 0 62 064 0048 1 60 080 0192 0 60 064 0048 1 59 080 0192 0 59 064 0048 1 60 080 0576 0 60 064 0144 1 64 080 0096 0 64 064 0024 1 65 080 0096 0 65 064 0024 1 67 080 0192 0 67 064 0048 1 67 080 0192 0 67 064 0048 1 69 080 0192 0 69 064 0048 1 71 080 0096 0 71 064 0024 1 72 080 0096 0 72 064 0024 1 74 080 0192 0 74 064 0048 1 74 080 0192 0 74 064 0048 1 76 080 0288 0 76 064 0072 1 74 080 0096 0 74 064 0024 1 72 080 0192 0 72 064 0048 1 69 080 0192 0 69 064 0048 1 67 080 0192 0 67 064 0048 1 67 080 0192 0 67 064 0048 1 67 080 0576 0 67 064 0144 1 64 080 0096 0 64 064 0024 1 65 080 0096 0 65 064 0024 1 67 080 0192 0 67 064 0048 1 67 080 0192 0 67 064 0048 1 69 080 0192 0 69 064 0048 1 71 080 0096 0 71 064 0024 1 72 080 0096 0 72 064 0024 1 74 080 0384 0 74 064 0096 1 76 080 0288 0 76 064 0072 1 74 080 0096 0 74 064 0024 1 72 080 0192 0 72 064 0048 1 69 080 0192 0 69 064 0048 1 67 080 0192 0 67 064 0048 1 64 080 0192 0 64 064 0048 1 62 080 0576 0 62 064 0144 1 64 080 0096 0 64 064 0024 1 65 080 0096 0 65 064 0024 1 67 080 0288 0 67 064 0072 1 67 080 0096 0 67 064 0024 1 64 080 0192 0 64 064 0048 1 72 080 0192 0 72 064 0048 1 71 080 0288 0 71 064 0072 1 71 080 0096 0 71 064 0024 1 62 080 0192 0 62 064 0048 1 62 080 0096 0 62 064 0024 1 64 080 0096 0 64 064 0024 1 65 080 0192 0 65 064 0048 1 62 080 0192 0 62 064 0048 1 60 080 0192 0 60 064 0048 1 59 080 0192 0 59 064 0048 1 60 080 0576 0 60 064
End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X:1
T:
M:4/4
Q:1/4=120
K:C
E7F|G3GE2c2|B3BD2DE|F2D2C2B,2|C6EF|G2G2A2Bc|
d2d2e3d|c2A2G2G2|G6EF|G2G2A2Bc|d4e3d|c2A2G2E2|
D6EF|G3GE2c2|B3BD2DE|F2D2C2B,2|C19/4||

MIDI file: BALL-BH2.mid

Timebase: 240

TimeSig: 4/4 24 8
Tempo: 120 (500000 microsec/crotchet)
Start
0720 1 62 080 0144 0 62 064 0036 1 64 080 0048 0 64 064 0012 1 66 080 0288 0 66 064 0072 1 66 080 0096 0 66 064 0024 1 62 080 0192 0 62 064 0048 1 71 080 0192 0 71 064 0048 1 64 080 0192 0 64 064 0048 1 64 080 0192 0 64 064 0048 1 62 080 0192 0 62 064 0048 1 61 080 0096 0 61 064 0024 1 59 080 0096 0 59 064 0024 1 57 080 0288 0 57 064 0072 1 59 080 0096 0 59 064 0024 1 62 080 0192 0 62 064 0048 1 62 080 0192 0 62 064 0048 1 62 080 0576 0 62 064 0144 1 62 080 0144 0 62 064 0036 1 64 080 0048 0 64 064 0012 1 66 080 0288 0 66 064 0072 1 64 080 0096 0 64 064 0024 1 66 080 0192 0 66 064 0048 1 69 080 0192 0 69 064 0048 1 71 080 0192 0 71 064 0048 1 71 080 0192 0 71 064 0048 1 69 080 0192 0 69 064 0048 1 66 080 0096 0 66 064 0024 1 64 080 0096 0 64 064 0024 1 62 080 0288 0 62 064 0072 1 62 080 0096 0 62 064 0024 1 64 080 0192 0 64 064 0048 1 62 080 0192 0 62 064 0048 1 59 080 0576 0 59 064 0144 1 62 080 0144 0 62 064 0036 1 64 080 0048 0 64 064 0012 1 66 080 0288 0 66 064 0072 1 64 080 0096 0 64 064 0024 1 66 080 0192 0 66 064 0048 1 69 080 0192 0 69 064 0048 1 71 080 0384 0 71 064 0096 1 69 080 0192 0 69 064 0048 1 66 080 0096 0 66 064 0024 1 64 080 0096 0 64 064 0024 1 62 080 0288 0 62 064 0072 1 62 080 0096 0 62 064 0024 1 64 080 0192 0 64 064 0048 1 62 080 0192 0 62 064 0048 1 59 080 0576 0 59 064 0144 1 62 080 0144 0 62 064 0036 1 64 080 0048 0 64 064 0012 1 66 080 0288 0 66 064 0072 1 66 080 0096 0 66 064 0024 1 62 080 0192 0 62 064 0048 1 71 080 0192 0 71 064 0048 1 64 080 0192 0 64 064 0048 1 64 080 0192 0 64 064 0048 1 62 080 0192 0 62 064 0048 1 61 080 0096 0 61 064 0024 1 59 080 0096 0 59 064 0024 1 57 080 0288 0 57 064 0072 1 59 080 0096 0 59 064 0024 1 62 080 0192 0 62 064 0048 1 62 080 0192 0 62 064 0048 1 62 080 0576 0 62 064
End

This program is worth the effort of learning it.

To download the March 10 MIDItext 98 software and get instructions on how to use it click here

ABC format:

X:1
T:
M:4/4
Q:1/4=120
K:C
D15/2E/2|^F3^FD2B2|E2E2D2^CB,|A,3B,D2D2|D6D3/2E/2|
^F3E^F2A2|B2B2A2^FE|D3DE2D2|B,6D3/2E/2|^F3E^F2A2|
B4A2^FE|D3DE2D2|B,6D3/2E/2|^F3^FD2B2|E2E2D2^CB,|
A,3B,D2D2|D19/4||

Both tunes are as published in The Penguin Australian Song Book (~ 1964) and probably Martyn's source. The first tune (BALL-BH1) is basically that used by Martyn. There are some differences, particularly in the second line ... but what the heck, that's the folk process! Work out your own version and get credit for originality.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Ben Hall Song - Help wanted
From: Ezio
Date: 08 Sep 98 - 02:47 AM

Hi!

in a thread of 29th August you can find the lyric of the song 'The Death of Ben Hall' as sung by Eric Bogle back in 1981. The link to RealAudio file is obsolete, but now you can listen the song here.

Ciao!

Ezio


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Subject: RE: Ben Hall Song - Help wanted
From: sk@worldmusic.de
Date: 08 Sep 98 - 03:32 AM

Thanks again, Bob - not least for sharing your family secrets with us and for getting my name right - and also to Ezio.I followed the earlier thread. Now I'm trying to get my hands on Eric Bogle's album. Shouldn't be difficult. - Susanne


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Subject: Lyr Add: DID YOU KNOW THEM? (Kenneth Cook)
From: GUEST,John Carroll - Canberra
Date: 03 May 11 - 04:10 AM

That's a pretty old thread, but here is an addition to it.

"Did You Know Them" - written probably in the 1960s by Kenneth Cook (author of the novel "Wake In Fright") and sung by his wife Patricia Cook on the album "Songs From Colonial Days", Paul Hamlyn MFP-A 8040 1972.

DID YOU KNOW THEM
(Kenneth Cook)

Did you know my mate Ben Hall?
when he rode the Weddin mountain.
I never thought to see him fall.
But did you know - they shot him.

And did you know his friend John Dunne?
the one who fought the p'lice at Forbes.
You know he wore a yankee gun.
But did you know - they hanged him.

(Chorus)
You'll never hear their hoofbeats now.
of those men who rode the dark night.
Guns, saddles and campfires -
ashes in the starlight.

And did you know that darkie lad.
the one they used to call Frank Gardiner?
You know the winning ways he had.
But did you know - they jailed him.

And Johnny Gilbert he was there,
when they bailed up Wangaratta.
There was nothing he'd not dare.
Did you know, - he died fighting.

(Chorus)

There was a price upon their heads,
a thousand pound the price of their blood
A thousand pound alive or dead.
Did you know? - that it's been paid.

The Gardiner, Gilbert, Dunne and Hall,
did you never see them riding?
Through the mountain timbers tall?
Now one by one they've all gone.

(Chorus)


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