Fingerstyle guitar brands?

Subject: Fingerstyle guitar brands?
From: Tinwhistler
Date: 20 Aug 98 - 04:14 PM

Here I go, Mudcatters--picking your brains again. Take it as a sign of my undying respect for you all!

Background: I am an intermediate guitarist, self-taught, playing exclusively fingerstyle or fingerpicking. I have never bought a guitar. The ones I have, just came to me from folks who didn't want them any more. None of them are of any quality. The best I have is an inexpensive Aspen (Japanese import) that an old roommate left to me.

Recently, in an exceptional guitar shop, I played some Taylors, Martins and Santa Cruz Guitar Co guitars. I now see what I have been missing! Playing those made me feel as if my abilities took a two year leap forward.

Question: What do you Mudcatters recommend? I'm saving now for a better quality guitar. I have small hands and short arms so can't handle anything huge. Want something for fingerstyle, possibly with built-in pickup. Not into fancy decorations (well, I am "into" them, I just can't afford them) but want a good clean sound and action. Under $1500.00 if I can do it. Over that and I'll have to save for a looooooonnnnng time.

If you could give me brands and models that you like, as well as price range (if you know it) I will take it all into account. I'm leaning toward Taylor right now.

Thank you! Sue

Subject: RE: Fingerstyle guitar brands?
From: BSeed
Date: 20 Aug 98 - 04:43 PM

Sue, I just bought a Taylor for under two hundred fifty; great sound, great action. It's a "Baby Taylor," and isn't much larger than a tenor guitar, but it has a lot of sound, an amazing amount of sound and depth for the small box. I also have a Martin, and it's fine: it cost four times as much and is more impressive looking, but I prefer playing the baby Taylor. I don't know if you'd be interested in it, but I thought Taylor deserved a plug for a wonderful instrument.--seed

Subject: RE: Fingerstyle guitar brands?
From: Barbara
Date: 20 Aug 98 - 05:46 PM

There's also 4 guitar makers in one little Canadian town, and I can't remember all the names, but my $700 Seagull came from there, and that's one of their expensive ones. They make cedar topped 00 (smaller, not the dreadnaught size) guitars for $250 -$350 that sound lovely.
Course, my friends with Taylors say the Taylor is much better. The action is very different, and I like the Seagull sound. Play them and see what you think.
Blessings,
Barbara
PS IMHO, unless you find one unrecognized at a garage sale or something, Martins are way overpriced, especially old ones.

Subject: RE: Fingerstyle guitar brands?
From: Tinwhistler
Date: 20 Aug 98 - 06:29 PM

Barbara--I agree about the Martins, 'tho I didn't want to say anything which may hurt someone's feelings :-). They seem overrated, but they do seem to keep their value.

I have a buddy who swears by Seagull. I'll have to check them out.

I never thought about the Baby Taylor, Seed. I will give it a play! Thanks you two.

Subject: RE: Fingerstyle guitar brands?
From: Anne
Date: 20 Aug 98 - 08:25 PM

It comes to mind that Janis Ian is petite w/ small hands and short arms, don't know about finger length though. The Santa Cruz GC makes a Janis Ian Model. I have heard her play it several times in the past year and was blown away, she's a great player. Check out their web page.

Subject: RE: Fingerstyle guitar brands?
From: lesblank
Date: 20 Aug 98 - 10:10 PM

When I went from classical to everything, I ended up with an Ovation Balladeer w/ pickup. The neck allows both fast Travis style AND clear chording. It barely beats my Guild F-20 that I've had for 34 years, though.

Good Luck

Subject: RE: Fingerstyle guitar brands?
From: Jaxon
Date: 21 Aug 98 - 08:33 AM

Sue,
Rule #1 - don't buy a guitar by concensus. It should be a very personal decision. Buy the guitar that you think sounds great and you have fun playing. I recently saw David Surette pick up and play an inexpensive guitar and make it sound like one of his expensive Froggy Bottoms. I recently was looking to buy a new guitar. I could afford to but whatever I wanted. I tried tham all and ended up with a Martin OM which was a lot less expensive than a D-28 that "everyone" said I should get.
Find one you love and buy it, play it and love it.
Jack Murray

Subject: RE: Fingerstyle guitar brands?
From: Mountain Dog
Date: 21 Aug 98 - 10:57 AM

Dear Sue,

Ditto the wise words of Jack Murray above. Go to as many guitar shops and luthier's dens as you can, then, play, play and play until the right guitar snuggles itself up under your arm and into your heart. I ended up with a beauty of a Guild for under $700, but would not have found it at all had I "settled" for any number of other instruments that were "almost, but not quite".

The right axe will be with you for a long, long time (the Good Lord willin'), so it's worth taking the time to search for it with patience and intuition. You'll know it when you find it (or it finds you...), for you'll find the right guitar will resonate with you in every sense of the word.

Keep pickin, keep searchin!

Subject: RE: Fingerstyle guitar brands?
From: Mountain Dog
Date: 21 Aug 98 - 12:10 PM

Me, again.

The Harvey Reid site, mentioned in the thread about favorite fingerpicking music, also has a great essay on considerations when buying a guitar. You'll find it at:

http://www.woodpecker.com/articles/BuyingAdvice.html

Should provide more grist for the mill!

Subject: RE: Fingerstyle guitar brands?
From: Tinwhistler
Date: 21 Aug 98 - 02:49 PM

Thanks everyone, for the great advice. I just hope the guitar that snuggles up to me doesn't have a $4000.00 price tag!

On my way to woodpecker.com!

Sue

Keep on keepin' the music alive!

Subject: RE: Fingerstyle guitar brands?
From: Big Mick
Date: 21 Aug 98 - 03:03 PM

You have gotten great advice from most of the folks here.

If a shop will not let you pick up a guitar and play it for a fair amount of time, and come back and do it again, and again until you are sure, then find another shop. I don't know where you live, but it you can get to Lansing, MI, perhaps the greatest acoustic guitar shop anywhere is located there. It is called Elderly Instruments. It is pretty cool to walk in and pickup a $10,000 guitar and sit down and play for a half hour or so and no one bothers you.

The most important advice so far is to play em until you find one that suits you. If your upper limit is $1500 then you are going to be pleased. We are in a golden age when it comes to luthery, and there are many great instruments out there that fall into your price range.

I have a 33 year old Guild 12 string that has phenomenal action and voice. If you look at vintage or used, pay close attention to the playability and neck condition. If it has been properly taken care of, and was well built to begin with, they are hard to beat for voice.

I have had a Seagull 6 string for about 6-7 years. I paid $230 for it. It has a great sound, and plays pretty well. They are about $270 to $300 now. If you want to buy it with electronics, it is 550 - 700. They are a great value for the money.

I have many friends, Irish emmigrant professional musicians, and almost invariably they play a Taylor acoustic w/electronics (usually a pickup/mic combo) and a single cutaway. It travels well, has great action and sounds great alone or amplified.

One of my closest friends has an Ovation. Hard to beat the action, but it lacks in voice. Amplifies great.

I bought a Baby Taylor to start my 6 year old daughter on, and was amazed at the sound and playability. I personally wouldn't recommend it for the conditions you have described. You should get a full sized performance standard guitar.

Sla/n go Foill,

Mick

Subject: RE: Fingerstyle guitar brands?
From: Anne
Date: 21 Aug 98 - 07:42 PM

Mick, Is the Elderly Instruments shop you mentioned related to the Website of the same name? The website is a wonderful resource for fingerstyle music. Tinwhistle, check it out for those fingerstyle books you're looking for. Are you heading to Winfield Kansas for the Fingerstyle competition in September? It's a great festival for learning and enjoying!

Anne

Subject: RE: Fingerstyle guitar brands?
From: Big Mick
Date: 21 Aug 98 - 10:24 PM

Anne,

Yep, one and the same. If you are a musician, and you are within driving distance of Lansing, you owe it to yourself to visit this store. I have travelled this land and a few others, and I have never seen anything like this anywhere. That includes Nashville and Music Row in NYC. Every kind of instrument you can imagine from bodhrans to whistles to dijeridoos to celtic harps to stringed instruments galore. One hell of a repair shop. They handle electric guitars as well, but to me, the acoustic room is without equal. Imagine walking into a room with a couple of armless pickers rocking chairs, and a number of stools. On the wall are all the premium models of Taylors, Martins, Gibsons, Santa Cruz, as well as a number of small luthiers work. Not to mention the vintage boxes. You simply walk up, pick it up, and start playing. No one will bother you as long as you are being respectful of the instrument. They have an amazing books, CD, tapes section. In fact, I bought a Leo Rowsomme tutorial for the Uillean Pipes from them off the shelf. It is simply the best shop I have ever seen.

And my band and I have put the owners kids through college.

Mick

Subject: RE: Fingerstyle guitar brands?
From: Animaterra
Date: 22 Aug 98 - 11:18 AM

Just another word in favor of Seagulls. Just bought a used one for $230 and it's miles above the Yamahahaha I had been twiddling with for 20 yrs!

Subject: RE: Fingerstyle guitar brands?
From: Tinwhistler
Date: 22 Aug 98 - 11:23 AM

I have been an Elderly customer for six years through mailorder. They are by far the best I have found. I buy everything from them--even strings, 'cause you can't beat the prices. I bought a used fiddle from them and have been very pleased with it.

Unfortunately, I live in California, so any guitar I bought from tham would have to be mailorder, which would preclude playing it before hand. So I need to find a good local shop. We do have a few who let you play without standing over your shoulder. Between now and the time I can save the dough, I'll be able to play a lot of guitars.

Thanks everyone.

Subject: RE: Fingerstyle guitar brands?
From: DWDitty
Date: 22 Aug 98 - 12:45 PM

If in New York, visit Mandolin Bros. in Staten Island. Yes, it is fun to pick up a $65000 - $100000 guitar and play it and they don't mind there. Those rare guitars are "different" to be sure, but I love my Guild F-50 (1970). Even though it is a big guitar, I play exclusively with fingers and it sounds great. Follow the previous advice - don't listen to anyone or anything but the guitars you play. Somehow a definite connection takes place between a particular assemblage of wood and glue and strings and ivory (or ivoroid) etc, that makes that instrument yours. This phenomenon is not to be questioned. Simply beg, borrow, or steal (not really) whatever funds are required to complete the union between you and "your" instrument.

Subject: RE: Fingerstyle guitar brands?
From: Chet W.
Date: 22 Aug 98 - 07:00 PM

All good advice above. I just wanted to add that I think some of the best fingerstyle guitars are some of the old small-bodied Gibsons, and they are often quite undervalued, at least compared to some Martins and others. The one that snuggle up to me was a 1933 Gibson L-00 (also often designated L-O). It is basically like a classical guitar with steel strings, same size body, wide neck. It would be the last material possession I would part with. One thing about small-bodied guitars (which weren't considered small until Martin came out with their D-models) is that they tend to be better balanced than big guitars, which were designed to have a big heavy bass to cut through in the days when the whole band played into one microphone. My guitar overall is not the loudest, but every note is the same volume, and the sound sweet as...(insert beautiful metaphor). It is very easy to amplify and record. Good luck in your search, and don't be in a hurry.

Chet W.

Subject: RE: Fingerstyle guitar brands?
From: BSeed
Date: 22 Aug 98 - 08:34 PM

Tinwhistler, I don't know if it's true of all their stores, but the Guitar Center in El Cerrito has two rooms closed off from the noise from the main part of the store. You can go in, take any instrument down, play it to your heart's content. A salesman will probably come and talk to you a bit, but won't stop you from sampling the Martins, the Taylors, Gibsons, Guilds, Dobros and Nationals, Larivierres (?), etc. It's where I bought the Baby Taylor. Their prices are lower than most places. Other great stores in the Bay Area include Gryphon in Palo Alto, The Thin Man Strings Co. in Alameda, The Fifth String in Berkeley, and so on. Check

www.taylorguitars.com

for dealers anywhere. Stores which carry taylors will likely carry all the other major brands. BTW, one of the reasons I love the Baby is its small size; even though I am 6'6": I have a bit of arthritis in my left shoulder, and the smaller size means I don't have to reach as far, but I still get the sound of a big instrument. Also, I don't have to twist my neck so far to watch my fretting...it gets stiff from the long neck on my banjo.

---seed

Subject: RE: Fingerstyle guitar brands?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 23 Aug 98 - 05:52 AM

Hate to be negative, but...It's time to think about the downsides too.
I, too, have smaller hands and am not tall. The Guild has always had a neck that is TOO SMALL for me. Hard to form chords as a result.
Gibson too to some extent. Gibsons have always had a too thunky bass for my taste and a not very up front treble. In other words, even the big J-200 sounds like a solid body electric guitar played with little amplification.(Sorry Mr. Van Ronk.)
The MARTIN has always been my guitar of choice. I've had two 000-18s over the years---just about PERFECT SIZE for smaller hands and finger picking. I have always loved the drednought---D-models. Used a D-28 for many years--cost me $350.00 from a Chicago dealer who was trying to denigrate Martin in favor of his own hand-built guitars which were nothing but GAUDY and sounded like he'd put strings on an ANVIL. (His name on the tuning stock was always comical to me as it was the same as a famous clown.) The main guitar I've used for performing since 1976 was the MARTIN D-76---cost to me: $3.00 (I won it in a raffle at Chicago's Old Town School Of Folk Music.)Used that until I crushed it with a trunk lid. (It's been beautifully repaired by Jan Burda in Berian Springs, Michigan.)
Then I got a Martin 000-18 (new) around 1995 because I needed a smaller guitar 'cause of physical problems.
There are tons of wonderful guitars out there. But MARTIN has been my guitar of choice because it had wonderful sound, had RELIABILITY (very important) and great factory backup (the guaranttee).
I also thought Mike Longworth was a great guy. (good bottom line)

Art

Subject: RE: Fingerstyle guitar brands?
From: clansfolk
Date: 23 Aug 98 - 08:05 AM

From the threads it would seem that it's down to individual choice...

I have several guitars in my collection - some work horses and others for novelty etc.

My favourites for finger picking (either normal/open tuned or with partial capo)are:-

Fylde ariel - British maker and local to me but I believe these are available world wide makes a superb range of instruments but I like the 12 fretters for picking - and it sure projects!

Ovation Long Neck - This I use a lot with a partial capo for Irish and and Whistle backings in 'D' it gives a great drone and fullness to the chords.

Ovation Adams - Love the sound with echo and capoed up the neck can sound very 'old English'.

Gibson - have a couple of the old MKs But I find these better for strumming/Flat-picking.

Taylors - Nice all round guitar

Most guitars that are in good playable condition - with GOOD strings can sound nice in the right hands so as suggested play about try other peoples guitars - If you are in the UK anywhere near Blackpool - why not call into the Falcon on a Wednesday (see site for futher details http://start.at/Falcon-Folk)and I'm sure the'll be plenty of people willing to give you advice and let you try their guitars.

Hope you get your perfect guitar (I've never found one!!)

Take care - Pete

Subject: RE: Fingerstyle guitar brands?
From: clansfolk
Date: 23 Aug 98 - 08:11 AM

Oops.

The ovation Adams - is not in fact the first guitar Kaman put on the Earth but a mis-spelling of Adamas!

Back to my spelling Bee.

must buzz off

Bye Pete

Subject: RE: Fingerstyle guitar brands?
From: Dave T
Date: 23 Aug 98 - 09:52 AM

I agree with the folks who recommend Seagull guitars; great value. They're made by La Si Do Music who also make Godin, Simon & Patrick and Norman guitars. I have a spruce and rosewood Norman dreadnought which is great for flatpicking but just doesn't have the right balance for fingerpicking. My other guitar is Martin 000-18 and I play it almost exclusively now. I picked it up used for around $1,000 (Canadian) so it would be well within your price range. The 000 models have a 24.9" scale length rather than the more common 25.4". You lose a bit of volume or "punch" but it has a nice light feel to it. But as the others have said: "Play lot's of guitars, find one you love and get it"

Subject: RE: Fingerstyle guitar brands?
From: Roger Himler
Date: 26 Aug 98 - 06:31 AM

Tinwhistler,

Lots of good advice for the guitar buyer in the above thread. I have two basic guitars and two different buying methods.

35 years ago, I was looking for a specific brand and model (Martin D-28). I let friends know, but I never stepped foot in a guitar store. I read a few articles on "what to look for when buying a guitar." I saw an ad in the newspaper for a guitar that sounded like what I was looking for. It was in a pawn shop. I went down the next day, checked it out and bought it. As I look back on this purchase now, it was truly a blessing. I didn't know what I was doing and I still picked a winner. I know now that there are good and bad guitars for any specific model.

My other purchase occurred after more experience. I wanted a 12-string guitar. I shopped the five major guitar stores in my neck of the woods, stores with admirable reputations for service and a reasonable selection. I tried nearly every 12-string they had, vintage and new. I also checked out a few pawn shops, hoping lightning might strike twice.

I was sitting in one shop with a very nice Taylor in my hands and moaning to the owner that new guitars sound so "new" and older guitars sound so much mellower. I told I just wasn't finding anything to my taste. He said he had just gotten a 12-string in and hadn't even decided if he was going to sell it. He brought it out and I tried it out. It immediately matched the "12-string sound" that I had been carrying in my head. It sounded the way I wanted a 12-string to sound. I spent about a half an hour with it.

The owner offered me a reasonable price and I asked him to throw in a few extras (a set of strings, a capo, and a strap). I also asked him to put a button by the heel for the strap as part of the deal and he did so.

I have never regretted this purchase. So, play as many guitars as you can. Some will quickly be set aside. Others will be potential keepers. You may even find one you just have to have.

Remember that "nobody sells for list anymore" and prices can be negotiated. If you know nothing of guitar construction, when you find your guitar, come back a second time with someone who does and who may help you avoid a mistake.

Most of all, enjoy the process.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Fingerstyle guitar brands?
From: GUEST,matt
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 02:41 AM

I'm a Californian too. If you're around the SF Bay Area, try "Thin Man" which has a great supply of older instruments.

I went there after my GRE to try out vintage guitars, and I found a really nice pre-World War steel-string guitar similar to my classical guitar, but with a traditional pyramid neck. It had a spruce top, and brazillian rosewood sides and back, and it sounded better than many dreadnaughts I've played.

If you don't mind older guitars, that one was a beauty. (I'd have bought if myself if I had the money :(.) It's a small store in Alameda with a suprising supply of great used instruments. If you don't mind looking about, you'll find some great finds.

-matt

Subject: RE: Fingerstyle guitar brands?
From: GUEST,matt
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 02:43 AM

ps. The guitar owner thought it was a 1920's Washburn. It was ~$950, and still intact.

Sorry for being so vague with the previous post.

-matt