Swan arcade arrangements ?

Subject: Swan arcade arrangements ?
From: Klavdivs
Date: 22 Jul 03 - 10:23 AM

I am an arranger for a vocal quintet, and we do some trad stuff. I just love the swan Arcade sound, and although I could roughly replicate some of their arrangements, I'd like to unlock the key to their particular sound, not becos i want to just rip off their versions, but so as i can use that sound on other arrngements I do.

It's a long shot, but does anyone knoe af anyone know of any dots of their arrangements ?

Ta

Subject: RE: Swan arcade arrangements ?
From: nutty
Date: 22 Jul 03 - 12:13 PM

The harmonies were pretty standard .....its the quality of the voices that made the difference and that is something that cannot be arranged.
The most exciting of close harmony groups do what comes naturally.

Subject: RE: Swan arcade arrangements ?
From: GUEST,Georgina Boyes
Date: 22 Jul 03 - 01:29 PM

Sorry to disappoint you, Wellsy, but there aren't any Swan arrangements available, they worked out all their harmonies by ear. The different qualities of their voices did make a unique sound - but as for using 'pretty standard'harmonies, listen to 'Go from My Window' or 'The Great Valerio' and judge for yourself.

Subject: RE: Swan arcade arrangements ?
From: rich-joy
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 11:19 PM

Is that you Simon??!!

This thread brings up something that I've always wondered about.

I've sung for years in different a cappella harmony groups, but play no instruments and don't read music - my voice just went wherever I felt was right at the time - or else, where I was told, by them wot knows more!!!

Whilst it is certainly true that individual voices can change a group's overall sound quite dramatically, my fellow singers and I have always felt strongly that when you get the same people/voices always singing the same part - y'know - "she's always high, he's always low", e.g. - it can lead to songs sounding quite "samey" - especially if you're only into one style of music and especially then, a whole CD of them!!

So, loving variety, we've always varied our song choices and mixed and matched as much as possible with the voices we have available at the time - which also extends the people concerned - and reduces a possible eventual boredom factor all round!!

The Fellside recording "Voices in Harmony : English Traditional Song" has some interesting booklet notes by Paul Adams re harmony and the differences between the groups.

I'd like to see some more discussion on this area please : Who uses structured harmonies (what/how) - and who just goes for it!
(yes, yes, I DO recall that there are other threads on harmony singing - maybe some link pixie can add them above please??)
Being a non-music reader, I'd like to understand a little more about the different harmony's effects (and, e.g., is it true that bluegrass harmonies are always just thirds??)

Anyway, that's enuff of my raving for now ...

Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: Swan arcade arrangements ?
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 02:43 PM

R-J:

Many groups have enjoyed much success by using the same harmony for virtually every song. This includes The Everly Brothers, The Louvin Brothers and (pretty much) The Carter Family as well as most bluegrass groups.

We, on the other hand, agree with you. We think it's boring for us and for both of our listners if we use a "formula" arrangement. We always use a "structured" harmony in the sense that we work out the arrangement in detail and write it out note by note and never deviate from it (at least not on purpose). But, our arrangements are "unstructured" in the sense that they're different for every song. Sometimes one of us takes the melody, sometimes the other and, occasionally, we share it. Each song has a different harmony that we feel is appropriate to that particular song.

Many people are under the mistaken impression that every song has "the harmony" that goes with it. We did a harmony singing workshop in which we debunked that idea by doing a song called "The Seven Blessings of Mary". The song has seven verses (duh!) and we sang the first verse in unison. On the remaining verses, Bev sang the melody and Jerry sang a different harmony on each verse. This was a real eye opener for many people in the audience.

In fact, we think everyone could learn a little by taking a song they're very familiar with and singing as many harmonies to it as possible. It just might open your mind to new harmony concepts. Listen to the different kinds of sounds you create and ask youself how they make you feel.

Jerry has a background in classical music so he takes a very theoretical approach to writing harmonies. Bev's background is much more folkie. So, the conversation usually goes some thing like this:

Jerry: "Let's use an open fifth here"

Bev: "That doesn't sound quite right, fix it!"

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: Swan arcade arrangements ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 04:37 PM

I recently went to a workshop by Artisan and they are geerally regarded as a quality acapella sound. They were very much of the - "try it and see what it sounds like" "you will soon see if it works or not" and gave some good examples. They were very clear though that they did not change the harmonies once they had tried and found the one(s) that worked.

I agree though that the main thing is the voices. Dave Brady (now a roady for the Scottish Chamber Orchestra I believe) seemed to me to have a "harsh" sound - whilst Jim Boyes bass is as always a more soft and round sound to me.

Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk

Subject: RE: Swan arcade arrangements ?
From: rich-joy
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 11:36 PM

Thanks for the posts - keep 'em coming!

Yes, I must admit that once we find what works for a particular song, we tend to "fix" it - and there always seems far too many songs we still want to do, to go back and re-arrange our earlier numbers too much!!

It would be interesting to try that experiment mentioned above, though!!

Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: Swan arcade arrangements ?
From: Marje
Date: 25 Jul 03 - 02:14 PM

It always amazes and delights me to hear how different all acapella groups sound, because of both the way they do the harmonies and the qualities of the voices.

I don't think there's any point in trying to replicate exactly the sound of another group: instead, it's better to have a listen to what they do with the song and then do what suits you. But there's nothing to stop you copying the features of Swan Arcade's versions that really grab you.

Your voices will have different qualities and different ranges, and the sound will be quite different no matter what you do. And you may have one singer who isn't very strong at harmonies and prefers to sing the tune, or one who can't reach notes at the extremes of the range. To get the most out of what you do, you have to work around the strengths and limitations of your singers. That's how you stand the best chance of making a good sound, and really enjoying the music.

Subject: RE: Swan arcade arrangements ?
From: GUEST,Dartford Warbler
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 08:39 AM

A very old thread I realise (found after a search on Google!) but is a recorded version of Swan Arcade's interpretation RT's "Great Valerio" available for purchase anywhere?
I had a tape of this absolutely magic bit of work but alas it has been lost. Would dearly love to have it again.

(Currently at Broadstairs Folk Week - August 08)

Subject: RE: Swan arcade arrangements ?
From: gnomad
Date: 11 Aug 08 - 09:45 AM

I don't know of a currently available recording, Warbler. It was released on the "Matchless" LP, which IIRC was on a Dutch label (Stoof??). A very good LP to look out for, the cover clearly owed quite a lot to a Swan Vestas match box.