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Lyr Req: Row Bullies Row (Dan Milner)

DigiTrad:
LIVERPOOL JUDIES (2)
THE LIVERPOOL JUDIES


Related threads:
Chord Req: Liverpool Judies, Spinners' version (12)
(origins) Origins: Liverpool Judies (19)
Row Bullies, Row (20)
Tune Req: Liverpool Judies (8)


Roberto 23 Jul 03 - 06:02 AM
IanC 23 Jul 03 - 06:04 AM
radriano 23 Jul 03 - 11:39 AM
Roberto 23 Jul 03 - 11:45 AM
Megan L 23 Jul 03 - 05:54 PM
toadfrog 23 Jul 03 - 11:03 PM
toadfrog 23 Jul 03 - 11:10 PM
Liam's Brother 23 Jul 03 - 11:55 PM
Bert 24 Jul 03 - 12:53 AM
Big Al Whittle 14 Jun 08 - 10:06 PM
Dead Horse 14 Jun 08 - 11:12 PM
Big Al Whittle 15 Jun 08 - 04:10 AM
Greg B 15 Jun 08 - 10:03 AM
Liam's Brother 16 Jun 08 - 04:38 PM
kendall 16 Jun 08 - 07:25 PM
Big Al Whittle 17 Jun 08 - 02:21 PM
Greg B 17 Jun 08 - 07:11 PM
Big Al Whittle 17 Jun 08 - 07:24 PM
GUEST,Lighter 17 Jun 08 - 10:11 PM
Keith A of Hertford 18 Jun 08 - 04:37 AM
Big Al Whittle 18 Jun 08 - 05:07 AM
Paul Burke 18 Jun 08 - 09:53 AM
Keith A of Hertford 18 Jun 08 - 12:00 PM
Big Al Whittle 18 Jun 08 - 12:32 PM
GUEST,Lighter 18 Jun 08 - 04:46 PM
Barry Finn 18 Jun 08 - 05:17 PM
Jon Bartlett 18 Jun 08 - 05:19 PM
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Subject: Lyr Add: ROW, BULLIES, ROW (Dan Milner)
From: Roberto
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 06:02 AM

I can't understand all the words of the text of Row Bullies Row as sung by Dan Milner (in Irish Ballads & Songs of The Sea, Folk-Legacy CD-124): here is what I get and the words I completely miss. Can somebody help me to complete a correct text? Thank you. Roberto

When I was a youngster I sailed with the best
On a Liverpool packet bound out for the West
We sheltered one day in the harbour of Cork
And then we set out for the ports of New York

And it's row, row bullies row
You Liverpool judies has got us in tow
And it's row, row bullies row
You Liverpool judies has got us in tow

For forty-two days we were hungry and sore
The winds were agin' us, the gales they did roar
Off (?) Battery Point we anchored at last
With our jib'boom hove to and the canvas all fast

Them boardinghouse masters was off in a trice
They were shouting and selling all that was nice
Then one fat old crimp he (…) me
He says – You're a fool lad to follow the sea

He says – There's (?) a job, lad, just waiting for you
With lashings of liquor and nothin' to do
He says - what d' you think, lad, will you jump up to?
Says I - You ol' bastard, I'm damned if I do

But the best of intentions they never gets far
After forty-two days on the floor of the bar
I tossed off me liquor and what do you think
The lousy old bastard had drugs in me drink

The next I remembers, I woke in the morn
On a three skys'l yarder bound south round Cape Horn
We 'ad no suit of oilskins and free pairs of socks
A bleedin' big head and a dose on (?) the pox

Now all you young sailors take warning by me
Watch out for the drinks, when the liquor is free
Pay no attention to runner or whore
Your head'll be sick, your (…) be sore


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dan Milner's Row Bullies Row
From: IanC
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 06:04 AM

Try Liverpool Judies in DT. It might help.

:-)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dan Milner's Row Bullies Row
From: radriano
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 11:39 AM

Roberto, here's what I have:

Third verse:
"Off Battery Point we anchored at last" is correct.

Fourth verse:
"Then one fat old crimp he COTTONED to me"

Fifth verse:
"He says - There's a job, lad just waiting for you" is what I have too.

Seventh verse:
"A bleedin' big head and a dose of the pox"

Eighth verse:
"Your head'll be sick and yer knob'll be sore"


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dan Milner's Row Bullies Row
From: Roberto
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 11:45 AM

Thank you very much, Radriano! Roberto


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dan Milner's Row Bullies Row
From: Megan L
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 05:54 PM

is this the orgin of a song called Golden Gate Angels sung by Jimmy Driftwood?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dan Milner's Row Bullies Row
From: toadfrog
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 11:03 PM

Megan L: I'm not sure what you are asking. Is that a complete question?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dan Milner's Row Bullies Row
From: toadfrog
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 11:10 PM

So far as can be determined on line, the Golden Gate Angels are an investment group in San Francisco, sponsoring breakfasts for young entrepeneurs. Sounds like an unlikely theme for a song, but if you are intrerested, click here. I don't think Jimmy Driftwood wrote a song about them, but some of the songwriters on Mudcat might give it a try. Groups like that are not so common now as they were 2 years ago. Not in San Francisco anyway. (Thank God!)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dan Milner's Row Bullies Row
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 23 Jul 03 - 11:55 PM

Hi Roberto!

Our friend Radriano is quite right. In case it's not clear, "cottoned" is common British slang meaning
"attached" or "caught on." The word "knob" is sometimes used to mean "head" but, in this case, refers to another protrusion of the male body slightly south of the belly button.

All the best,
Dan


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Subject: Lyr Add: ROW BULLIES ROW
From: Bert
Date: 24 Jul 03 - 12:53 AM

Here's how I sing it

When I was a youngster I sailed with the rest
On a Liverpool packet bound out for the West
We anchored one day in the harbour of Cork
And we put out to sea for the port of New York

Chorus (after each verse)
Singing Ho, row, Ho bullies ho bullies ho
Them Liverpool judies have got us in tow

After forty-two days we was randy and sore
The winds were agin' us, the gales they did roar
Off Battery Point we did anchor at last
With our jib boom hove in and the canvas all fast

Them boardinghouse masters was off in a trice
a shouting and promising all that was nice
and one fat old crimp he got cottoned to me
Says he You're a fool lad to follow the sea

Says he– There's a job, as is waiting for you
there's lashings of liquor and fuck all to do
He says - what d'you say lad, will you jump up to?
Says I - Ye ol' bastard, I'm damned if I do

But the best of intentions they never gets far
After forty-two days at the door of the bar
I tossed off me liquor and what do you think
The lousy old bastard had fixed up me drink

The next I remembers, I woke in the morn
On a three skys'l yarder bound south round Cape Horn
with an old suit of oilskins and two pair of socks
A blooming thick head and a dose of the pox

Now all you young sailors take warning from me
keep a watch on your drinks, when the liquor is free
and pay no attention to runner or whore
Your head'll be thick and your prick'll be sore


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dan Milner's Row Bullies Row
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Jun 08 - 10:06 PM

I'm working on this song. does anyone know anything interesting about it?

who wrote it, that sort of thing, when it was wrote......

It sounds a bit similar to Bold english Navvy, doesn't it?

I distrust these songs with butch sailors/navvies poncing about. I'm just having fun with it in DADGAD.

I just wish I felt more empathy with these blokes doing knots and pulling on ropes.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dan Milner's Row Bullies Row
From: Dead Horse
Date: 14 Jun 08 - 11:12 PM

"He says - what d'you say lad, will you jump up to?"

Should be "What d'ye say lad, will you jump HER too?"
The boarding master (seeing this lad as a likely target for his nefarious games) is offering the lad a nice job ashore,
but it would mean he has to "jump ship" (he has presumably signed on for the round trip New York and back).
The job entails standing at the door of some sailors dive, maybe inducing others to enter,
but after 14 (not 42 surely-must be an error handed down) nights of this, he gets drugged and ends up "shanghied"
aboard a Cape Horner - not a kind fate for a green young lad who has only crossed the pond once (inferred in first verse)
so, older and much wiser, he offers his advice to lads like he once was himself.
And you can sing the chorus as Row, - Roll, or - Ho, row, Ho bullies ho. Whichever ya fancy. Ya takes ya choice, they's all tradishinal mateys.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dan Milner's Row Bullies Row
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 04:10 AM

Yeh just looking.

The main problem with that one seems to be - Liverpool doesn't really come into it.

he goes from cork. goes to America, and now he's off to Cape Horn. In what sense do the judies have him in tow. I heard about the winds, but that seems a bit like a load of twaddle to me.   Liverpoool and its judies is fairly well known - in England at least.

i prefer the 'Liverpool to frisco a roving I went' song. itell you one thing aout that song though. It doesn't seem like a folksong to me. Its too well written. A clear narrative, quite literary language and descriptions. And very concise. The poets hand is very visible.


I don't think the writer is too much before ourtime and possibly of our time.   wonder what Malcolm Douglas knows about it.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dan Milner's Row Bullies Row
From: Greg B
Date: 15 Jun 08 - 10:03 AM

The oldest recorded version of the song I've heard is from one of
the old MacColl/Lloyd/Edwards records; 'Haul on the Bowline,' I
think was the name of the album.

They sang the "Liverpool to Frisco" variant, and had no Irish
references, unless I recall wrongly. That's also the version I've
heard Lou Killen sing:

From Liverpool to Frisco a rovin' I went
for to stay in that country was my good intent
but with drinking strong liquor like other damned fools
I soon was transported back to Liverpool

For 42 days we was hungry and sore,
the winds were against us; the gales they did roar
off Battery Point we were anchored at last
with our jibboom hove in and our canvas made fast

The boarding house masters were off in a trice...

After that it's the same general thing.

Variants on the last line's Bowdlerization I've heard
include "keep yer hat on yer head and your feet on the floor"

Also, "your head'll be thick and your fid'll be sore."

I'd suppose the variant to be a Gold Rush era song--- explaining
the intent of our man to stay in California, and jump ship
for the gold fields. Also the very real risk of being
"shanghai'd" (at risk of mixing a metaphor) due to the fact
that crews back from San Francisco were very hard to assemble
when the gold fields beckoned.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dan Milner's Row Bullies Row
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 04:38 PM

Well, weelitttledrummer, Liverpool does come into it.

"When I was a youngster, I sailed with the best
On a Liverpool packet bound out for the west."

The ship then calls in at Cork (or Queenstown - Cobh).

"We sheltered one day in the harbour of Cork
And then we set out for the port of New York."

Since no ship sailed non-stop from Liverpool to San Francisco, this ship was enroute to San Francisco via Queenstown and New York and, likely, a few other places in South America. But our hero was enticed off his ship in New York by a job. When the New York boarding house master got a call for sailors from another ship, our hero was doped and wound up in rough shape, penniless and headed around Cape Horn.

I assume everyone knows Stan Hugill included this in Shanties from the Seven Seas. He said his version came from an Irish sailing ship mariner, Paddy Delaney. This song appeared in collections beginning about 1915.

All the best,
Dan


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dan Milner's Row Bullies Row
From: kendall
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 07:25 PM

Along comes the Mate in his jacket of blue
Looking for work for the sailors to do
It's jib topsail halyards he loudly does roar
Lay out on the yardarm you son of a whore
to me row...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dan Milner's Row Bullies Row
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 02:21 PM

To be honest, I could have seen Stan Hugill loads of times way back - but somehow i was too busy chasing my own fantasy of folk music - probably still am!

The tune seems to offer some incredibly cool moves for a DADGAD guitar player and that's my way in. Speaking as someone who invariably loses his breakfast over the side when I go out mackerel fishing for a couple of hours - I can't relate too well to tales of seafaring derring do.

Still - keep poking away at it! eh?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dan Milner's Row Bullies Row
From: Greg B
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 07:11 PM

I find it interesting that the song was bifurcated in lyric...one
clearly a training song about the misery of shore-side life the
other a bit of an homage to a rollicking good time 'round the
Horn in a packet ship. And you usually hear them rather disjointly...
the 'Frisco version is really all about what happens ashore after
a brief account of a miserable 'round the Horn. The seagoing version
details 'diving bows-under with her main skys'l set!' and downplays
the condition of the crew when returning from shore, just mentioning
they've 'shot all their whack and are looking for more.' Overall,
though, the idea seems to be that with its ups and downs the life
of the sailor isn't more than half bad.

Hell, Lord Nelson was always sick as a dog for his first three days
out, so don't feel bad. Fact is, many if not most people, including
sailors, are...

"We singled up and got the tugs alongside
Warped her through the locks and out to sea
With half the crew a-pukin' o'er the ship's side
and the bosun with a rope-end chasin' me.

More rare than a sailor who didn't get seasick was one who'd
mastered DADGAD, methinks.

The song in the original would probably be so down-tempo as
to be intolerable as entertainment. The work it was designed for
was rather slow.

It's a tribute to the structure of these old songs that they
adapt so well to becoming entertainment either in performance
or community singing (sans work).

If you get a chance to hear either Lou Killen's or Alf Edward's
English concertina accompaniments to this, I think you'll enjoy
it.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dan Milner's Row Bullies Row
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 07:24 PM

Go to agree - the structure of this one is fantastic. I'm not sure about 'these old songs'. I was in a folk club tonight wishing somebody had left one gem in the library. i was thinking surely to God - nobody ever enjoyed that

I think the real trouble I have is with songs written to sound like the really awful old ones - in the tradition, that sort of thing.

The chord changes here though are quite exquisite. As I play DADGAD in a fairly instinctive way - I don't know the names of the chords.

Another thing is, it seems to me that was very definitely written by a writer. theres none of this gobbledegook and metrical putty that you get in many 'folksongs'. Where you're thinking I've heard that verse somewhere before - and you have - in half a dozen other folksongs. In other words, there has been a writer - a presiding creative genius - who has put his vision down.

Anyway, whatever turns you on, I guess!

al


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dan Milner's Row Bullies Row
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 10:11 PM

Two songs, not one. Hugill even gives two different tunes, though he does say they're interchangeable.

I believe the first appearance of the Liverpool-Cork-NYC lyrics was in David W. Bone's "Capstan Bars" in 1931.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dan Milner's Row Bullies Row
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 04:37 AM

The Liverpool Judies bit makes an interesting story.
Some say it refers to a current that made it difficult for ships to enter Liverpool.
I prefer the story that the working girls of that city, when ships were waiting to come in, would row out and offer a tow.
I think that a boat load of rowing ladies of the night should have replaced the tug in Turner's painting of Temeraire entering Liverpool


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dan Milner's Row Bullies Row
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 05:07 AM

the other thing is if the bloke only gets as far as NY, then you'll miss all that poetry about going round Cape Horn.

Do you guys know the Ralph McTell song about the guy going round Cape Horn?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dan Milner's Row Bullies Row
From: Paul Burke
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 09:53 AM

the working girls of that city, when ships were waiting to come in, would row out and offer a tow.

You wouldn't ask for a hand job off a girl who'd just towed a three- master with a rowing boat.

Or to spoonerise the song a bit:

So I licked off me tosser, and what d'ye think?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dan Milner's Row Bullies Row
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 12:00 PM

Around Wild Cape Horn ?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dan Milner's Row Bullies Row
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 12:32 PM

that's it keith - are you a Ralph watcher?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dan Milner's Row Bullies Row
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 04:46 PM

Though known elsewhere, the use of "judy" as a synonym for "young woman" has long been associated with Liverpool. "The girls have hold of the tow-rope" was a nineteenth century phrase meaning, roughly, "Our ship is quickly nearing home."


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dan Milner's Row Bullies Row
From: Barry Finn
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 05:17 PM

Right Lighter
like a horse heading home for it's stable,the closer the ship neared it's port the harder the Judies would pull & the tighter their grip would be on the tow rope.

Barry


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dan Milner's Row Bullies Row
From: Jon Bartlett
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 05:19 PM

I've also heard 6.4 as:

An IOU nailed to the lid of me box.
(instead of: A bloody big head and a dose of the pox)

Is this a conscious bit of bowdlerizing or is it a genuine variant reading?

Jon Bartlett


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