Origin: Vieni Sul Mar

Subject: 'Ziene Sur Nul' Instrumental Title?
From: Cruiser
Date: 27 Jul 03 - 01:06 PM

This "bumper" instrumental is a beautiful 3/4 meter melody once used to introduce and close NPR's "The Radio Reader" in the 1990's. It sounds like harp music. The title might be "Ziene Sur Nul" (or "Ziene Nul Sur"). I may have the name mispelled. I'm not sure if the local station (where I got the possible title) added the bumper music or if the originating station of the program added it.

The melody is almost identical to the 1959 song "Goodbye Jimmy Goodbye" sung by Kathy Linden and written by Mr. Vaughn. (Label & No. Felsted 8571). I finally found that song on a Collector's Choice Music remix CD called " The Great Lost Female Teen Idols".

Does anyone have information on the origins, etc. of this instrumental.

Thanks,
Cruiser

Subject: RE: 'Ziene Sur Nul' Instrumental Title?
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Jul 03 - 03:23 PM

You could e mail Dick Estell Click here, then scroll down and ask him.

Subject: RE: 'Ziene Sur Nul' Instrumental Title?
From: Cruiser
Date: 27 Jul 03 - 09:39 PM

Click on the link below (at Best Buy) for a :30 second sample of song #7. "Goodbye, Jimmy, Goodbye" for the melody.


Click

Subject: RE: 'Ziene Sur Nul' Instrumental Title?
From: M.Ted
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 09:23 PM

The song is called "Vieni Sul Mare"--it is an old Neopolitan waltz, and is very well known--Enrico Caruso often sang it, but it was well known before his time--

Subject: RE: 'Ziene Sur Nul' Instrumental Title?
From: Cruiser
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 11:14 PM

Sorcha:

Mr. Estell sent a prompt reply to my e-mail about the song. He said he did not contribute to the "music surrounding Radio Reader". He suggested that the local radio station likely programmed the music.

Thank you for the suggestion.

Subject: RE: 'Ziene Sur Nul' Instrumental Title?
From: Cruiser
Date: 28 Jul 03 - 11:29 PM

M.Ted:

A great deal of appreciation for your reply!

Do you know where I can purchase a recording of this song, instrumental or vocal? I have tried Google searches and find the song mentioned and info about Enrico Caruso but no available recordings.

Do you agree that the melodies of the two songs are very similar, if not identical?

Any additional information you have about the song is appreciated.

Thanks!

Ron

Subject: RE: 'Ziene Sur Nul' Instrumental Title?
From: Cruiser
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 12:17 AM

M.Ted:

I found a copy of "Vieni Sul Mar" by Enrico Carso (Album: "Italian Songs")at Amazon.com under the classical/operatic section.

I guess I am not "clutured" enough because the only time I heard this song for the first time (40+ years ago) was the harp instrumental and then later as a prelude to "Radio Reader".

I even learned that this is an Italian traditional song and Neopolitan means: "of or belonging to Naples, Italy" (thanks to GuruNet and you.)

You ended a long search and I thank you! You made my day.

For those that want to hear a clip of the song, click on the link below: By the way, Mr Jack Vaughn "borrowed" the melody for "Goodbye, Jimmy Goodbye" from "Vieni Sul Mar" because they are exact. He just added the lyrics, but he is given credit as the musical composer.


Vieni Sul Mar

Subject: RE: 'Ziene Sur Nul' Instrumental Title?
From: GUEST,Cruiser
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 01:51 AM

I found a beautiful instrumental mandolin arrangement of the song at the BestBuy site below (Track # 16 of Evan Marshall's "Mandolin Magic" CD).

"Vieni Sul Mar" means "Come to the Sea" according to another BestBuy page.

Mandolin Version

Subject: RE: 'Ziene Sur Nul' Instrumental Title?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 04:38 AM

I know the melody as 'Two Lovely Black eyes; Two Lovely Black eyes,
Only for telling a man he was wrong:
Two lovely black eyes.'
This was a music hall song and maybe is the same as 'Goodbye, Jimmy, goodbye??(Which I don't know)
Jim McLean

Subject: RE: 'Ziene Sur Nul' Instrumental Title?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 03:27 PM

Thanks Jim,

It appears that the singer of "Two Lovely Black Eyes", Charles Coburn, modfied an earlier song called "My Nellie's Blue Eyes" to write his.

All this is fasinating to me. Which song came first? Probably the Italian traditional "Vieni Sul Mar" with many modifications and adaptations on the theme and melody thereafter.

Are there any musicologists out there that know the evolution of this song?

Thanks for all the Mudcatter's replies on this search. I started out with a misspelled "Ziene Sur Nul" to "Goodbye, Jimmy, Goodbye" to "Vieni Sul Mar" then to these other variations. From Classical/ Operatic, to minstrels, to folk music, to popular music. They all have the same melody. Ain't music and the internet great!

Click on the link below for that info:

My Nellie's Blue Eyes/Two Lovely Blue Eyes

Subject: RE: 'Ziene Sur Nul' Instrumental Title?
From: Cruiser
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 03:32 PM

I forgot to Log In on the previous post.

Cruiser (instead of GUEST)

Subject: RE: 'Ziene Sur Nul' Instrumental Title?
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 04:15 PM

I know what its like you have a tune bouncing around in your head, with no one able to attach a name one it, so I am glad I could help you, cruiser---I don't know whether you are "cultured"or not, I would say that you have a pretty good ear if you can recognize an old folk melody hidden in a pop song, and a pretty good memory to keep it in your head for 40 years--

Subject: RE: 'Ziene Sur Nul' Instrumental Title?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 04:51 PM

Actually I think it was 'Two lovely black eyes, oh what a surprise, Only for telling a man he was wrong.....
Jim McLean

Subject: Lyr Add: VIENI SUL MAR
From: Sorcha
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 05:15 PM

Found lyrics, know you're looking for an intrumental recording.

VIENI SUL MAR
Quante facce stanotte ha la luna
Ogni faccia somiglia un po' a te
Misteriosa, lucente regina
Che ogni notte ti accendi per me…

Fermo il tempo per starti vicino
Ti racconto le cose che so…
Le certezze di un cuore bambino
Che la vita cambiare non puo…

Vieni sul mar, vieni sul mar…
Prendi quell'onda che arriva fin qui, dai
lasciati andar…
Vieni sul mar, vieni sul mar…
C'e' una corrente che porta da me, dai
lasciati andar…
Vieni sul mar, vieni sul mar…
Guarda la stella che brilla lassu', lei ti guidera'…

E' un invito che parte dal cuore
Io ti sento ogni giorno di piu'
Non si vive soltanto d'amore
Ma non vivo se non ci sei tu…

C'e' un momento che e' tutta una vita
E' il momento che dedico a te
Misteriosa lucente regina
Sai che sei dentro e fuori di me…

Vieni sul mar, vieni sul mar…
Prendi quell'onda che arriva fin qui, dai
lasciati andar…
Vieni sul mar, vieni sul mar…
C'e' una corrente che porta da me, dai
lasciati andar…
Vieni sul mar, vieni sul mar…
Guarda la stella che brilla lassu', lei ti guidera'…

From: http://albanoromina.on.ufanet.ru/musica/vienisulmarit.htm
Sheet music to buy is Click here.
Sound clip here of something, but don't know if it's the right song.

---

Click to play

Subject: RE: 'Ziene Sur Nul' Instrumental Title?
From: Cruiser
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 05:36 PM

Sorcha,

Thanks for the words. I wanted them also. I plan on purchasing several CD's of the tune, both vocal (Caruso) and instrumental. I play some fiddle, mandolin, harmonica, and guitar so I'll try them all with the full version of the song.

That song clip IS definitely the tune! From a Japanese site, no less.

Thank you for your help and interest.

PS I'm probably going to wear that song clip out before the day is over!

Subject: RE: 'Ziene Sur Nul' Instrumental Title?
From: Cruiser
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 06:11 PM

M.Ted,

Your reply post opened up a whole amateur musicological investigation of this song, especially on my part.

I have a few other "obscure" instrumentals that I've been searching for and this Mudcatter bunch might just solve those mysteries also.

I'll have to make a sound file clip (mandolin, harmonica, or keyboard) of each song and post them here, if that is acceptable.

One that is especially illusive for me (not as much as "Vieni" though) is a more recent instrumental that I remember hearing about the same time as "Quentin's Theme" (Shadows of the Night), circa late 60's. It was on an "elevator music" radio station in 1974 so it could be older, maybe even traditional.

Thanks again!

Ron

Subject: RE: 'Ziene Sur Nul' Instrumental Title?
From: masato sakurai
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 07:55 PM

Written at the Japanese site as:

       Vieni sul Mar [Umi ni Kitare ("Come to the Sea")]
         Napoli Min'yo ["Neapolitan folksong"]

Subject: RE: 'Ziene Sur Nul' Instrumental Title?
From: Cruiser
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 08:01 PM

Thanks masato sakurai. That clip is really neat. I downloaded it.

Subject: RE: 'Ziene Sur Nul' Instrumental Title?
From: masato sakurai
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 08:16 PM

This is a well-known song in Japan. Here're some Japanese sites with midi:

Vieni Sul Mar [mandolin arrangement]

Umi ni Kitare [Japanese lyrics only]

Umi no Kitare [Clikc on "No. 3"]

Umi ni Kitare

Umi ni Kitare [musical box arrangement; from THIS SITE]

Umi ni Kitare [from HERE]

Subject: RE: 'Ziene Sur Nul' Instrumental Title?
From: Cruiser
Date: 29 Jul 03 - 08:22 PM

Thanks. You should post this on the ADD MIDI of Vieni Sul Mar thread also.

Subject: Lyr Add: VIENI SUL MAR
From: M.Ted
Date: 30 Jul 03 - 12:27 AM

Here are some different words--

VIENI SUL MAR

1. Deh! ti desta fanciulla, la luna
spande un raggio s'i caro sul mar,
vieni meco t'aspetta la bruna
fida barca del tuo marinar.

Ma tu dormi, e non pensi al tuo fido,
ma non dorme chi vive d'amor;
io la notte a te volo sul lido
ed il giorno a te volo col cor!
Vieni sul mar vieni a vogar,
sentirai l'ebbrezza del tuo marinar!

2. Addio dunque, riposa, e domani
quando l'alba a svegliarti verrà,
sopra lidi lontani lontani
l'infelice nocchiero sarà.

3. Da quel giorno che t'ho conosciuta
o fanciulla di questo mio cuor,
speme e pace per te ho perduto
perché t'amo d'un immenso amor.

4. Fra le belle tu sei la più bella,
fra le rose tu sei la più fin:
tu del ciel sei brillante stella,
ed in terra sei beltà divin!

Subject: RE: Vieni Sul Mar/Ziene Sur Nul Instrumental Title
From: Ferrara
Date: 01 Aug 03 - 09:08 AM

Thanks to Joe Offer, who PM'd me about this thread! You're right, Joe, I'm very interested.

I learned the song as a kid, with the words that M.Ted supplied. My sister used to play it on the piano accordion.

My dad was from a small town near Naples and he loved this song. He used to bribe us to learn his favorites. I think I made 5 bucks off this song.

But I only learned the first verse -- I think it was in "Everybody's Favorite Italian Songs," and I only remember there being one verse. Thanks, M.Ted, for the entire song!

Rita Ferrara

Subject: RE: Vieni Sul Mar/Ziene Sur Nul Instrumental Title
From: Ferrara
Date: 01 Aug 03 - 09:12 AM

M.Ted - I always thought the chorus was just the two lines:

Vieni sul mar vieni a vogar,
sentirai l'ebbrezza del tuo marinar!

Does the chorus start with "Mat tu dormi, e non pensi al tuo fido"?

Rita F

Subject: RE: Vieni Sul Mar/Ziene Sur Nul Instrumental Title
From: M.Ted
Date: 01 Aug 03 - 04:03 PM

No--that is the minor bridge part--the refrain is as you said--I just screwed up and left out the space--My dad used to sing this to us, and I checked the words with him before I posted--

Subject: RE: Vieni Sul Mar/Ziene Sur Nul Instrumental Title
From: GUEST,cecilia
Date: 08 Jul 06 - 11:20 PM

existe una versión de Luciano Pavarotti en Kazaa

Subject: RE: Vieni Sul Mar/Ziene Sur Nul Instrumental Title
From: GUEST,Rini - Lisbon
Date: 24 Dec 06 - 07:00 AM

Vieni sul mar, performed by Caruso , can be heard at http://www.italiamerica.org/Vieni_sul_mar.htm

Subject: RE: Vieni Sul Mar/Ziene Sur Nul Instrumental Title
From: GUEST,Rini - Lisbon
Date: 24 Dec 06 - 07:02 AM

..There are also two Dutch versions from 1935, titled: "Twee ogen zo blauw" (two eyes, so blue).
Originally it seems to be a song from Venice, not Naples.

Subject: RE: Vieni Sul Mar/Ziene Sur Nul Instrumental Title
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 07:20 PM

The words posted by MTed and by Sorcha are for two different songs. Sorcha's are for the Neapolitan song, and MTed's for one that seems to be from northern Italy, but both are well-known in the Neapolitan area, and, I would presume, all over Italy.
Vieni sul mar, also known as Deh! ti desta fanciulla, is sung by Tito Schipa, here:
Vieni sul mar
The two line 'bridge,' or chorus (Ferrara, above) is repeated.

I haven't seen a good translation of Deh! ti desta fanciulla.

Subject: RE: Origin: Vieni Sul Mar
From: GUEST,balalaikist
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 05:29 PM

Sorry to confuse matters more. I used to work with russians in balalaika bands, and the russians claim two lovely black eyes as one of their folk songs.

Subject: RE: Origin: Vieni Sul Mar
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 05:43 PM

Different song.

Subject: RE: Origin: Vieni Sul Mar
From: GUEST,balalaikist
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 04:22 PM

Same tune. I should know. I played on it a few times.

have a look at the bit about sing swallow sing on

www.vologda-oblast.ru/main.asp?V=409&LNG=ENG

Subject: RE: Origin: Vieni Sul Mar
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 05:53 PM

Listen to the Italian "Vieni sul mar" as sung by Tito Schipa (link above) and to the Russian Gipsy song "Otshi tschornye" (Dark Eyes) as picked out for the balalaika here- Dark Eyes

The same they ain't.

Subject: RE: Origin: Vieni Sul Mar
From: GUEST,Cruiser
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 06:48 PM

Q: Thanks for the first link to Tito Schipa. I could not play the Dark Eyes link version.

Even 4 years after I learned the name of this song on MudCat, I never get tired of listening to it.

Subject: RE: Origin: Vieni Sul Mar
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 11:52 PM

Just tried my link to the balalaika version of Dark Eyes and it works, but a little slow. Mayhap a clone fixed it.

Subject: RE: Origin: Vieni Sul Mar
From: M.Ted
Date: 04 Sep 07 - 12:10 AM

I've played both songs, in the same band, even. And they are remarkably different.

Incidentally, I checked with my Dad, who gave me the lyrics that I posted, and he says that the images in song are evocative of Naples. The fishing on Bay is distinctly Neopolitan, for instance, and not descriptive of Venice at all.

Subject: RE: Origin: Vieni Sul Mar
From: GUEST,balalaikist
Date: 06 Nov 07 - 05:14 PM

The Russian song is called Sing, Swallow, Sing. (Swallow as in bird not in gulp)

It is not Ochi Chyornia: it is the same tune as the music hall song "Two Lovely Black Eyes."

I do not know where the tune of "Two Lovely Black Eyes" originates. All I know is that the Russians say it is one of theirs. If you trawl through Europe you might find that melody all over the place. It might be Italian; It might be Russian; it might come from somewhere else.

Subject: RE: Origin: Vieni Sul Mar
From: Cruiser
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 10:57 AM

I did get the link to work for me this time and it was my error initially.

I agree, those 2 songs are very different.

Subject: RE: Origin: Vieni Sul Mar
From: M.Ted
Date: 07 Nov 07 - 11:41 AM

I have noticed that there are a number of melodies that are common to both Italian and Russian folk music. Odd, since they aren't adjecent, and, musically, as well as geographically, there's a lot of distance between the two.

I remember watching the Torino Olympics, and in a little bit of filler space, they had some footage of a Saint's Day parade, a small group of people, marching behind the Saint's Statue, with a wobbly little brass band playing--the thing was, the melody they were playing was "Katyusha"--those parades are a tradition that probably hasn't changed much since the middle ages, so that it is unlikely they learned it from an "Odessa Balalaikas" album (like I did)--

In Russian music, it sounds like it is typically and unmistakably Russian, and in the Saints parade, you couldn't imagine anything sounding more Italian--truly a puzzle.

Subject: RE: Origin: Vieni Sul Mar
From: GUEST,balalaikist
Date: 16 Dec 07 - 12:35 AM

To settle the matter once and for all - that I am not confusing dark eyes and two lovely black eyes, here is the first few notes of the chorus of two lovely black eyes in my idiosyncratic tonic sol fa:

ray-2-3,me,doh,me, doh-2-3,1-2-3

Happy?

A lot of Russians used to holiday in Italy during the 19th century. If you have ports, you have Russian sailors disembarking in Italy, and Italian sailors disembarking in Russia. I have seen "Over the Waves" listed as an "old Russian waltz". Again, I know nothing about the validity of that claim.

Music does travel. Possibly the most famous example is the American Civil War song "When Johnny Comes Marching Home." The Union officer who "wrote" it, whose name escapes me, said that he had heard an elderly Negro singing it. An Irish sergeant within earshot replied: "Well, he must have come from Dublin!"

Who knows? Maybe Charles Coburn did compose Two Lovely Black Eyes after all.

Subject: RE: Origin: Vieni Sul Mar
From: GUEST,balalaikist
Date: 16 Dec 07 - 01:00 AM

Sorry.

Two lovely black eyes should be

me-2-3, ray doh ray, doh-2-3

I did warn you that my tonic sol fa was idiosyncratic!

I have not used it since I was 9 years old.

Subject: RE: Origin: Vieni Sul Mar
From: M.Ted
Date: 16 Dec 07 - 02:26 AM

I have also been told that Russian sailors introduced yodeling to Hawaii. I don't necessarily believe it. And I think I actually have a music book that calls "Over the Waves" an old Russian Waltz. And then there are those Klezmer Christmas song;-)

Subject: RE: Origin: Vieni Sul Mar
From: GUEST,balalaikist
Date: 09 Jan 08 - 07:39 PM

It gets still more complicated. I have only heard "Two Lovely Black Eyes" played in 3/4 time. When we played it in the Russian bands, we played it in 3/4 time.

BUT

Someone gave me a DVD on British music halls for Xmas. And it showed some footage of an elderly Charles Coborn performing The Man who Broke the Bank at Monte Carlo and, of course, Two Lovely Black Eyes.

Oh, what a surprise! Coborn is performing it in 2/4 time!

It also shows footage of the sheet music, and that is written in 3/4 time.

Very strange.

Subject: RE: Origin: Vieni Sul Mar
From: M.Ted
Date: 09 Jan 08 - 11:31 PM

That's one of those strange movie things--like when Elvis strums his acoustic guitar and you hear a twangy electric-what's the name of the DVD? I love music hall tunes!

Subject: RE: Origin: Vieni Sul Mar
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 13 Jan 08 - 06:25 AM

http://www.geocities.com/commlin/music.html
No mystery here.
The song you heard was Fischia il Vento, a song of the Italian resistenza. Nothing whatsoever to do with ancient musical traditions, but with an attempt to inspire partisans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischia_il_vento

Subject: RE: Origin: Vieni Sul Mar
From: Cruiser
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 04:17 PM

Rare: Two Lovely Black Eyes YouTube Video

This is definitely the same melody as VIENI SUL MAR. Mr. Charles Coborn sings this in several languages.

Subject: RE: Origin: Vieni Sul Mar
From: Cruiser
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 02:31 PM

Enrico Caruso: YouTube music added May 27, 2008 with English translation.


Vieni Sul Mar Caruso

Subject: RE: Origin: Vieni Sul Mar
From: Cruiser
Date: 27 Jul 08 - 02:52 PM

Where does time go…5 years has passed since I first requested information about this song on July 27, 2003!

Here are the lyrics from YouTube. You Italian linguists might want to add your English translation for comparison, if there are major differences. Thanks.


Traditional Neapolitan song (Come to the Sea). Digitally remastered.

English Translation:

Wake up, girl! The moon
spreads its shining ray on the sea
Come with me.
Your sailor's
dark faithful boat awaits you.

But you sleep and you
don't think of your faithful man.
But those who live for love don't sleep!
At night I fly to you on the shore,
And in the day I fly to you with my heart!

Come out on the sea,
Come rowing with me,
You will feel your sailor's ecstasy!

Subject: RE: Origin: Vieni Sul Mar
From: GUEST,Pumapreto
Date: 19 Apr 09 - 06:31 PM

there is another variation of Viene sul Mar. For many decades, there has been a Portuguese language adaptation to honor the Brazilian state of Minas Gerais. the version is called OH, MINAS GERAIS. there have been recordings and I believe it can be found in youtube.

Subject: RE: Origin: Vieni Sul Mar
From: GUEST,tonicho
Date: 28 Feb 10 - 10:38 PM

Would like to comment here that the song "Two lovely black eyes" is referred to in Jerome K Jerome's well-known "Three men in a boat, to say nothing of a dog" published in 1889. The theme is also used as the "National Anthem" of the brazillian state of Minas Gerais:"O Minas Gerais, o Minas Gerais, quem te conhece não esquece jamais, o Minas Gerais!" which is considered traditional here in Brasil.

Subject: RE: Origin: Vieni Sul Mar
From: GUEST,Mr S D Rodrian
Date: 23 Mar 10 - 11:14 AM

You can download this Caruso single
& others among my MP3 favorites:

HERE



.... clicky added. Mudelf............

Subject: RE: Origin: Vieni Sul Mar
From: GUEST,amy
Date: 23 Feb 16 - 10:01 AM

I have heard it as "Zing, Faygele, Zing," a Yiddish lullaby.

Subject: RE: Origin: Vieni Sul Mar
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Nov 17 - 05:14 AM

I found sheetmusic of "Vieni Sul Mar", published in 1894 by Edizione Bideri in Italy.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/a/(KGrHqIOKj!E25kk6dgLBNzl5e6pVw~~/s-l500.jpg

On the sheet it says: "Trascrizione dall'Inglese".

This would mean the song was English in origin, as of 1894.

That being said, "My Nellie's Blue Eyes" (which was written in 1883) and or "Two Lovely Black Eyes" (written in 1886) are the source for the so-called Napolitian song "Vieni Sul Mar".

Joop greets from The Netherlands

Subject: RE: Origin: Vieni Sul Mar
From: GUEST
Date: 21 May 23 - 08:31 PM

Watching the joy this beautiful waltz brings to a large open-air audience as they sing along and sway to the melody illustrates the specialness of this masterpiece. My favorite of all melodies...


Vieni Sul Mar by the incomparable Andre Rieu