Edinburgh Military Tattoo

Subject: Edinburgh Military Tattoo
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 05:47 AM

did anybody see it?
what did you tjink, and whitch bits did you like best?
Them japanese drummers was good.
Them americans was ok i suppose, but there was no music in that bit.
that dancing piper was good as well.

Subject: RE: Edinburgh Military Tattoo
From: kendall
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 05:50 AM

I've seen it twice, and was very impressed. 75 highland pipers! I was already wallowing in the history of the place before the show even started.

Subject: RE: Edinburgh Military Tattoo
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 10:42 AM

I liked the dancing piper from Oman.

The yanks throwing rifles struck me as very clever but... The point about ceremonial parades and that is that what is happening is a ritualised version of something that actually has or at one time did have a military purpose. Juggling rifles is a circus trick.

Watching the Arabs and the Gurkha pipers and so forth I was thinking it'd be interesting to hear what kind of pipe music they might play when they aren't on parade.

Subject: RE: Edinburgh Military Tattoo
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 01:40 PM

I am sure I have seen John Wayne throw a loaded rifle to a soldier who's ammo had run out ....

Murray

Subject: RE: Edinburgh Military Tattoo
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 01:47 PM

Over his head backwards with a bayonet?

Subject: RE: Edinburgh Military Tattoo
From: Barry T
Date: 02 Sep 03 - 07:33 PM

BTW... for those who are interested, this year is the first year that the video recording of the Tattoo is being offered on DVD. That should offer a nice improvement in playback quality.

Look for the base drummer of 1st Battalion Royal Scots' pipe band... my son... a Canadian transplant in the oldest regiment of the British Army!

Subject: RE: Edinburgh Military Tattoo
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Sep 03 - 12:58 PM

What about the Swiss drummers, had me in fits of laughter.
Giok

Subject: RE: Edinburgh Military Tattoo
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 03 Sep 03 - 11:23 PM

Who else did they have taking part? And were there any historical items? I suppose, if our good old Australian Broadcasting Corporation runs true to form, we'll get the heavily abridged version showing only the pipe bands, the highland dancers and possibly one other musical turn. then the lone piper and the finale (40 minutes if we're lucky)in time for Christmas...2005.

Having fond memories of seeing the Tattoo live too many years ago, I'd like to see the whole thing, not some TV programmer's idea of what they want people to see.

Subject: RE: Edinburgh Military Tattoo
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 03 Sep 03 - 11:46 PM

OOps! they were Swiss drummers, not Japanese!
Sorry Swiss drummers, I had the wrong glasses on!
They were very impresive anyway.
I used to be a drummer in a pipe band, many, many years ago.
The best bit for me was when the massed bands played Black Bear at the end, brought a few happy memories back!
I was a tenor drummer.john

Subject: RE: Edinburgh Military Tattoo
From: Barry T
Date: 04 Sep 03 - 01:04 AM

Here is this year's program, ozmacca... http://www.edinburgh-tattoo.co.uk/programme/current.html

Subject: RE: Edinburgh Military Tattoo
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Sep 03 - 01:26 AM

I remember many years ago (70's or 80's) watching on the ABC, there was a race between two teams that had to dismantle, carry across obstacles, reassamble, load and fire, a very heavy gunpowder muzzle loading ships cannon... a bit like the "lay the railway track and run your hand cart over it" races...

Impressive!

Haven't seen that item again. Also seem to remember the horse drawn British artillery (was that the King's Troop Royal Horse Artillery?) maneuvering at speed, weaving in and out of each other.

The rifle juggling Yanks have been on several times before over the years. They should send them to march around on display in Iraq. As Wellington was reputed to say of his troops on the eve of Waterloo "I don't know if they terrify the enemy, but by God, they terrify me!"

Robin

Subject: RE: Edinburgh Military Tattoo
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 04 Sep 03 - 02:10 AM

Yes, the dancing piper was from Oman, very good
I used to think that Mcgrathg of Harlow was a silly old fart, but I reckon he's ok really, and he's got a point on this. No disrespect to Murray}, but wahts the point in chucking guns about?
it's a 20 lb rifle thrown 15 feet in the air backwards, very nice, but wahts the point?
I have served in theBritish Army, yiou would not throw your gun to anyone!, its your personal weapon, you treat it better than you would your wife or child, you take great care of it, and ceryainly would not go chucking it about!
My personal weapon was a SMG [Subby, or Sub Machine Gun], Im was in the Army Catering Corps, [We Sustain!"}, and we were never given rifles, not sure why.
Anyway-my army days were after the Falklands, but before the first Gulf War, I am quite happy to kill animuls, [I worked for a while as a slaughterman, as did McGrath}, but when it comes to killing people, thats a different thing altogrher!
I reckon I would have "bottled it, shit my pants, and run away!,
thats why i left the army.
I think the question is " can you kill a man, because his goverment, disagrees with ours?"
My answer is NO, I can't, [this obviously makes me a bad soldier!]
I often regret leaving the army, as after 11 years you get an army pension, [not sure how much it is, but it would certainly be a big help now, as i am totally skint!, plus every extra year you serve, younget more money ie do 22 years, you get the full whack!.
[My 22 years would have been up in four years]
you can live quite happily on an army pension, anything else youi make is a bonus.
anyay=to late to for regrets now!
john

Subject: RE: Edinburgh Military Tattoo
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 04 Sep 03 - 11:42 PM

jOhn, I'd guess, that like the Oz army, the British Catering Corps would be provided with personal weapons which provided the maximum possible self-defence against disatisfied customers. The SMG can be more easily hidden beneath the counter than the rifle.

Back with chucking around things that go BANG... In my time, I served the dear old L5 105mm Pack Howitzer, and while it could be carried about (in little bits, piece by piece) by the detachment, we would dearly have loved to be able to throw the thing around.. or away... with or without bayonets attached!

I see from the programme (thanks Barry T) King's Troop RHA 13 pounders were featured. It would have been nice to see them dragged around on the slippery slope of the Esplanade. I bet the horses loved that. Many years back I saw a Tattoo with (I think) mounted troopers from the Greys in a historical pageant just about come to grief in a great tangled heap of horseflesh on that slope.

Subject: RE: Edinburgh Military Tattoo
From: GUEST,sledge
Date: 05 Sep 03 - 04:02 AM

Foolestroupe mentioned the race with a gun from a few years back, that was the Royal Navy field gun race that was started to commemorate the relief of Ladysmith in the Boer war. The RN provided guns and crews to support the Army at this time. 1903 saw the first demonstrantion with 1907 seeing the first race with the chasm.

The guns used were breechloading 12 pounders not ,muzzle loaders. They weighed around 2000 pounds in total.

The competition was a central feature of the other military tatoo in London called the Royal tournement. This ran until 1999 when the event was finished due to defence cuts and reduced man power. The Field gun runs became a three way competition between teams from Portsmouth, Devonport and the fleet air arm and were won on the basis of best times, usually around 2 minutes 40 seconds.

Cheers

Sledge

Subject: RE: Edinburgh Military Tattoo
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Sep 03 - 08:55 PM

Thanks Sledge

My memory is of large naval sailing ship era muzzle loaders, but that could be just "memory creep" --- like "thread creep", only worse...

:-)

although now I think about it, I seem to remember images of the spoked wheels being manhandled around over the chasm, which could not have been the case with that era naval gun mountings...

I really would love to see that race again, is it still performed anywhere? The training to stay in shape would be MURDER! I thought it might have been the Royal Engineers doing it...

"2000 pounds" - How many were in the team? I remember the chasm!

Btw, Boer War reminds me. I live just up the road from the Enoggera Army Base (Brisbane Qld Aus). The streets around it bear the names of battles and people from then and the First World War. Wardell St is the main passageway from Enoggera through to Ashgrove, going around the city rather than in/out of it. And we still have the Lone Pine Koala Sanctuary operating - named after Gallopili. The last veteran of WW I had his state funeral the other day.


And also to mind springs the famous BW engagement at some tiny spring or creek bed where the Aussies were considered all wiped out by the British, who didn't bother to relieve them for quite a while. When they finally got there, they found to their amazement that the surrounded outnumbered Aussies were basically in charge of the place, sneaking out at night to play guerilla games in the surrounding terrified force... We may not have a big army, (or always competent leadership!) but we can handle ourselves creatively in a pinch! :0

Now you have fired some memories....

One of my mother's cousins in WWII was sunk in a submarine, returned to duty, captured by the japanese and treated to their hospitality in the islands, had been hung up by his wrists, which were rather strangely elongated, and had lost all his teeth.

He used to take out his falsies and play the smallest harmonica ever made inside his lips - no hands. He had a foxie-terrier dog who would sit on its backlegs and howl IN TUNE with him...

Robin

Subject: RE: Edinburgh Military Tattoo
From: GUEST,Sledge
Date: 06 Sep 03 - 02:21 AM

As I recall the selection and training for the team started around March with the tournement being held July'ish. It was always very physical with guys returniong time and time again, though if you did one year you had to skip the next. I think there was 12 or so per team.

The event is now a thing of the past though various lightweight copies are still enacted in the UK though with a less demanding course and lighter guns, some by volunteers in the RN and some by various cadet groups. Its unlikely it will ever happen again in its full blown glory due to cutbacks.

I will always remember it with a great deal of fondness, it was a source of great fun and excitement and not a few squished fingers. The times of gun runs during the tournement used to be signaled around the fleet as they happened. There were also a couple of deaths from the race, usually the flying angel who would cross the chasm first.

Not much musical content I know, but they always marched on the tune Hearts of Oak.

Cheers

Sledge

Subject: RE: Edinburgh Military Tattoo
From: GUEST,Leithman
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 02:31 AM

Why o why do tourists and such folk confuse the Edinburgh Festival with the damnblasted military Tatoo.

Why o why o why.

Gavin

Subject: RE: Edinburgh Military Tattoo
From: open mike
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 03:28 AM

yes, but did you see any good tatoos there?
http://www.tattoos.com/
http://tattoo.about.com/
http://www.tattoodesign.com/
where did the word come from?
is it like "forensic" in that it means two totally different things?

Subject: RE: Edinburgh Military Tattoo
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 04:36 AM

Its a rip-off I waited all night and didn't get one tattoo.

Subject: RE: Edinburgh Military Tattoo
From: mack/misophist
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 11:57 AM

McGrath of Harlow said:

The yanks throwing rifles struck me as very clever but... The point about ceremonial parades and that is that what is happening is a ritualised version of something that actually has or at one time did have a military purpose. Juggling rifles is a circus trick.

Having once juggled rifles myself, perhaps I can explain. There are a number of different styles of doing the various necessary things with rifles. For ceremonial purposes, older and more elaborate 'changing of the guard' movements are often used. The moves McGrath objected to were probably from the Queen Anne Manuel of Arms. You ought to see some of the things the Russians do on ceremonial guard mounts.

Trivia note: It was the Duke of Wellington who banned the 'goose step' in the English army. Too many back injuries, he thought.