Help: Need 18th Cent. Sea Music

Subject: Help: Need 18th Cent. Sea Music
From: Melani
Date: 10 Sep 03 - 07:53 PM

I am trying to find sea music of the 18th century for a re-enactment group. I have already bee told on good authority that there really aren't any 18th century chanteys (which is what I figured), but could use a line on any collections that would include 18th century sea music. As for chanteys, I suppose we'll just have to adapt the 19th century ones, but I am hoping to find anything that MIGHT have been used during that time period, as several group members are sticklers for authenticity. Anybody got any ideas? Thanks.

Subject: RE: Help: Need 18th Cent. Sea Music
From: curmudgeon
Date: 10 Sep 03 - 08:07 PM

The Oxford Book of Sea Songs, Roy Palmer, ed.

Subject: RE: Help: Need 18th Cent. Sea Music
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Sep 03 - 09:10 PM

Curmudgeon's suggestion is good.
There are several possibles in the Bodleian Library and also entered into the DT and Forum here.
For fun, I entered 'sea' in the Bodleian Search, and came up with some from the 17th century (but still sung in the 18th), and some from the very early 19th century.
Everything from "The Seaman's Return to His Sweetheart" to "I'm often Drunk" (The sea is wide and I can't get over), "The Seaman of Dover," and "The Cabin Boy" (1802-1819, but 18th c. according to many), "The Sea Worn Tar" (1797-1807), "The Hasty Damosel (late 17th) and "The Seaman's Compass" (late 17th), etc.
I am sure that other words, like admiral, captain, ocean, etc. would yield usable songs.

Subject: RE: Help: Need 18th Cent. Sea Music
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 11 Sep 03 - 12:34 AM

Melani, there's "Sam's Gone Away" (long drag), and "Bounty Was A Packet Ship," both legitimate period chanteys. I'll bring the lyrics to Hyde.

Chanteyranger

Subject: RE: Help: Need 18th Cent. Sea Music
From:
Date: 11 Sep 03 - 01:23 AM

For some of this older material, check out Bruce Olson's site

Subject: RE: Help: Need 18th Cent. Sea Music
From: nutty
Date: 11 Sep 03 - 03:28 AM

You could look at the songs of Charles Dibdin 1745 - 1814

click here

Many "traditional" sea songs found their origins in the poems and songs that Dibdin and his two sons wrote.

Subject: RE: Help: Need 18th Cent. Sea Music
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Sep 03 - 08:56 AM

Melani-

You have some good suggestions to follow up, and we'll look forward to hearing what you finally come up with for a program.

You might check out the 1807 "Mariner's Compass" (the Mariner's compass is grog) song that I've discussed in these threads and sang when last in the San Francisco area last July; it overlaps with the Dibden songs in terms of period and spirit.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Help: Need 18th Cent. Sea Music
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 11 Sep 03 - 09:23 AM

Try the "Saucy Arethusa," which was written about Sir Edward Pellew's command of her. Christopher Stone published SEA SONGS AND BALLADS in 1906 and has many songs of the period you want.

Subject: RE: Help: Need 18th Cent. Sea Music
From: curmudgeon
Date: 11 Sep 03 - 10:57 AM

Both the "Maid of Amsterdam" and "Haul On the Bowline" are old enough to be valid for your purposes -- Tom

Subject: RE: Help: Need 18th Cent. Sea Music
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Sep 03 - 02:32 PM

Charlie, I think your "Mariner's Compass" (thread 57063, not in the DT) is the "Seaman's Compass" of the late 1600s that is in the Bodleian. But you are right, the song persisted and is still sung today. The old songs about Captain Ward would also work, because they were sung long after the 17th century.

Subject: RE: Help: Need 18th Cent. Sea Music
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 11 Sep 03 - 03:31 PM

As well as Dibdin mentioned above, classy composers of the 18th century writing sea ballads (though perhaps without the common touch of Dibdin - one of the first popular singer/songwriters?) also include Arne (Rule Britannia - 1740) and Garrick (Hearts of Oak - 1759).

The (later Royal) Marine Bands were established by 1763 (Portsmouth), 1772 (Chatham) and 1767 (Plymouth) and provided official drummers to the naval ships and fife and drum bands on the larger vessels, though I've no idea of what music they might have played.

(Above info from the National Maritime Museum publication Music of the Sea - David Proctor).

Admiral Benbow died in 1702, so the versions of that may well have been current C18. Admiral Byng (executed 1757) had broadsides written about him. And, with another thread running about him at the moment, Martin Parker just scrapes in being executed for his mutiny of 1797. (Or perhaps these unsuccessful sailors are not quite what you're looking for!)

Mick

Subject: RE: Help: Need 18th Cent. Sea Music
From: bazza
Date: 11 Sep 03 - 03:45 PM

Try Real Sailor Songs by John Ashton,Full of old songs but alas no music.

Subject: RE: Help: Need 18th Cent. Sea Music
From: GUEST,Melani
Date: 11 Sep 03 - 04:39 PM

Thank you very much, guys, I knew I could count on Mudcat! This should keep me off the streets for a while.

Subject: RE: Help: Need 18th Cent. Sea Music
From: curmudgeon
Date: 11 Sep 03 - 04:44 PM

Now please tell us what,when and where you're re-enacting. Thanks -- Tom

Subject: RE: Help: Need 18th Cent. Sea Music
From: greg stephens
Date: 11 Sep 03 - 05:43 PM

Start the century with Captain Kidd and Admiral Benbow,definitely.And,as suggested earlier, round it off with the Death of Parker. In the middle,the Sailor's(College) and Fisher's Hornpipe as an instrumental interlude.

Subject: RE: Help: Need 18th Cent. Sea Music
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 11 Sep 03 - 05:55 PM

I've just realised I wrote Martin Parker in my post above, instead of Richard Parker. (Martin Parker was an alias used in a scurrilous episode in my university days; the ability of the things of the past to persist so long bodes well for the future of old songs).

Mick

Subject: RE: Help: Need 18th Cent. Sea Music
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Sep 03 - 08:34 PM

Q-

I doubt that the "Seaman's Compass" of the late 1600s is directly related to rhe "Mariner's Compass" I found in John Ashton's REAL SAILOR'S SONGS; "grog" is the heart and soul of the "Mariner's Compass" and was not invented or called "grog" until 1740 when Admiral Vernon (whose nickname was "Old Grogram" in honor the material of his favorite boat cloak) decided to water down the rum ration. Dildin did compose a similar ditty entitled the "Sailor's Sheet Anchor" but I think the verses of the "Mariner's Compass" are more choice. Still, I'd be curious to see a few verses of the "Seaman's Compass" if you'd post them.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Help: Need 18th Cent. Sea Music
From: GUEST,Melani
Date: 12 Sep 03 - 04:51 PM

As for what, when and where--we're in the San Francisco Bay Area. A local guy with a replica 18th century boat was looking for a crew of authentically costumed re-enactors who could also crew the boat. A guy from the RenFaire military guild recruited a bunch of us, but after an introductory sail, we all decided for safety reasons never to set foot on the boat again. (Had to do with both sailing and black powder handling.) So there we were, all dressed up (literally!) with no place to go sailing.

We are really anxious to keep the group together and find another ship, and so far the group leader has arranged for us to use several small boats. We also hope to do some stuff on the Hawaiian Chieftain, our local sailing square-rigger, and we are going to be part of a Patrick O'Brian night at the Maritime Library where I work. The main event there will be a slide lecture on the Niagra, but the head librarian is trying to arrange TV coverage to tie in with the release of The Movie, so we have advertised a cooking contest and singing as well. The music will not be a formal presentation--we'll just sort of see what evolves. For anyone interested within travel distance:

Saturday, November 22, 5:30 p.m., J. Porter Shaw Library, 3rd Floor, Building E, Fort Mason Center, San Francisco. 415-561-7040 for more info.

Also, the group is assigning positions, and I have applied for chanteyman. There are some real sticklers for accurancy in the group, so I gotta lotta homework to do on 18th century stuff.

Subject: RE: Help: Need 18th Cent. Sea Music
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Sep 03 - 05:59 PM

If you're doing a Patrick O'Brien evening, forget the shanties and get practising some violin/cello duets...you're going to need them!

Subject: RE: Help: Need 18th Cent. Sea Music
From: GUEST,Melani
Date: 12 Sep 03 - 06:22 PM

Actually, Greg, we have two CD's of the music played by Jack and Stephen, and have been debating whether or not to play them.