Folklore: Do kids still do clapping rhymes?

Subject: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: Ely
Date: 20 Sep 03 - 10:58 PM

A woman with two small daughters brought her new kitty into the clinic today. The girls amused themselves by doing hand-clapping games. They knew two verses to "Miss Mary Mack" so I wrote out a third one for them. Their mother looked at it and said, "See? That's the one Grandma was trying to teach you the other day."

When I was in elementary school, EVERYONE did hand-clapping games and knew the rhymes that went with them ("Miss Mary Mack" and the off-color one about Miss Suzy and the steamboat were the most common). We also told each other a lot of ghost stories and urban legends and played creepy games; Bloody Mary, where the ghost is supposed to appear in the bathroom mirror, the hypnosis one that is supposed to make you feel an egg running down your head, Light as a Feather-Stiff as a Board, etc.

I wasn't in school THAT long ago (well, OK, fifteen years). Does anyone here have contact with elementary-school-aged children on a regular basis? Do they still do these things?

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: alison
Date: 20 Sep 03 - 11:31 PM

I saw some ? 12 year old girls doing clapping rhymes at a festival last weekend in Australia but that is the first time I've seen it in years.... we used to do them all the time in Ireland when I was at school....

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: Amergin
Date: 20 Sep 03 - 11:48 PM

15 years??? thats a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time....


I seen my young cousins doing such things...but as I was born with the wrong equipment...I never learned any of them....much to the relief of my grampa... ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: Ely
Date: 20 Sep 03 - 11:54 PM

I was in ELEMENTARY school 15 years ago; I didn't leave school altogether that long ago. I just can't tell if American children still do these things because I'm not around them. I get the feeling they don't, but maybe I'm just and old and cranky twentysomething who thinks the current generation is too media-saturated and brainwashed ;).

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: Allan C.
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 12:02 AM

I remember these also. In my early years in school (mostly in Virginia) it was something often seen done the playground. For reasons unknown, it was an activity done almost exclusively by girls. While there were some rhymes that were accompanied by simple clapping, there were many others that involved two girls, standing face-to-face, palms forward, clapping and slapping each other's hands alternately in a patterned rhythm. The rhymes were substantially similar to those used for jump rope. The fun of it mostly stemmed from repeating the rhyme and clapping pattern faster and faster.

I am sure both of my daughters learned to do this in the lower grades of their schools; but they are 19 and 24 now. I don't know if it is still being done.

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 12:34 AM

Allan - Bratling will teach you a couple next time you are over. She does some with me but I could never hope to reach the speeds that she and her friend Nerissa get to.

The rhymes are more or less the same, but I think they learn the rude ones younger these days.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: Ely
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 12:38 AM

We did the jump-rope rhymes too--double-dutch was THE thing, but I was taller than everyone else and they always whacked me in the head with the ropes, so I always had to be a rope-turner rather than a jumper. I know there are some books of jump-rope rhymes out there and I keep meaning to get ahold of one as a sort of folklore research project (they probably don't contain the "rude" ditties, though).

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: MBSLynne
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 06:07 AM

My daughter, who is eight, is still doing clapping rhymes, though the ones she does are different from the ones I did in the 50s and 60s. (These, by the way, are in England). The one she seems to do mostly is:
I went to a Chinese restaurant
To buy me a loaf of bread, bread, bread.
He wrapped it up in a five pound note
And this is what he said, said, said:

My name is
Elvis Presley,
Girls are sexy
Sitting in the back seat
Drinking pepsi.

Where's your father?
Died in a fishtank..Last night
What did he die of?..Raw fish.
How did he die..Like this.

On the "Like this" they pull a strange face as of somebody dead. She says there are various versions of the rhyme. We used to do the first bit, but not the bit beginning with "Elvis Presley"

There's a really interesting social study to be done about those sort of rhymes and their origins. Peter and Iona Opie published some really interesting books on the subject of childrens' games and rhymes etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 07:10 AM

I don't think boys ever did those, at least not in living memory. The nearest thing would have been counting out rhymes.

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 11:24 AM

I've lived most of my life in the inner city and I think there must be 40 - 50 little girls living within, say, 6 blocks of my house. I have NEVER seen any of them playing those old games. The closest they ever came to it - not very - was in the 60's and 70's when they formed groups and hung out practicing close harmony.

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: C-flat
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 11:46 AM

My six year old does the one, already mentioned, about going to the chinese restaurant for a loaf of bread, but it includes a verse of
"Cinderella, Rockerfella, go upstairs and kiss your fella"
Fortunately my ears aren't quick enough to catch the rest of it!

Another I hear regularly is,
A sailor went to sea, sea, sea,
to see what he could see, see, see,
but all that he could see, see, see,
was the bottom of the deep blue sea, sea, sea.

Is it any wonder us boys preferred conkers and chinese burns?

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 11:51 AM

In my area (central VA) I find that the all-caucasian girls don't, the ones with some African ancestry do, and all boys don't. Or no boys do. But I teach my sons as many as I knew (Miss Mary Mack, Miss Lucy had a baby [clean version], etc.), and WE do them, but they don't do those in public. I don't know why it seems to be a "black" thing here, but it does.

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 12:05 PM

"Caucasians"? I thought that term had been dumped along with "Ethiopian"

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: Willa
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 03:54 PM

LTS- good to 'see' you again. Primary school girls in the UK do still do these. My niece who is 9 does the one LBS gives, and others I can't remember. In my local area there has been an initiative to teach lunch-time supervisors some of the old playground games, including the skipping games, and get them to pass them on to the children. Most local primary school playgrounds are now marked out for hopscotch and other games.When I was working recently at a centre attached to a primary school it was a treat to watch the children enjoying the games their grannies played as children.

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: LilyFestre
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 04:14 PM

I have an 11-year old that LOVES to play clapping games! One of her favorites goes as follows:

Shame shame shame
I don't wanna go to Mexico
No more more more
There's a big fat policeman
At the door door door
If you grab him by the collar
Boy he's gonna holler

I don't wanna go to Mexico
No more more more!!!!


Here's another.....

Cross down when Mary was one
She learned to suck her thumb
Thumb de-odle, thumb de-odle
Half past one.

Cross down when Mary was two
She learned to tie her shoe
Shoe de-odle, shoe do-odle
Half past two.

Cross down when Mary was three
She learned to climb a tree
Tree de-odle, tree de-odle
Half past three

Cross down when Mary was four
She learned to shut the door
Door de-odle, door de-odle
Half past four

It goes from there.......and yet another.......

Boys go to Jupiter to get more stupider
Girls go to college to get more knowledge

Boys go to Venus to get a big penis (*CRINGE* yep....she sings it....)
Girls drink Pepsi to get more sexy!

Michelle =^..^=

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: Allan C.
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 04:29 PM

I did a bit of searching and found a few good resources for clapping rhymes and such. Try these:

The Grade School Anthropolgist

Jump Rope Rhymes

An especially good site I found is called, Heard it in the playground which contains a wide variety of things of this sort. Besides a small collection of clapping games displayed there, you can even hear "Miss Mary Mack" on this page from that site:
Clapping games (Netscape version)
or here:
Clapping games (Explorer version)

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: Allan C.
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 04:35 PM

Sorry, for some reason those last two links don't seem to go to the specific pages. However, all you need do is to click on GAMES and then on CLAPPING GAMES.

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: Tig
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 04:47 PM

It seems to be a seasonal thing - a bit like conkers. I teach primary as a supply (relief) teacher and come across GIRLS playing it every so often. The boys don't seem to.

When I was at college 30 years ago I did my drama special study on playgroung games and I occasionally get the children to do some written work on the current ones. I've found that the skipping and clapping rhymes that are done have change over the years to reflect the current morals/situations,eg they no longer turn their back on the washing machine now they show their knickers to the football teams!! but that basically they are the same as I learnt.

However I can't keep up with the speed they do them now - I'm putting it down to old age :-)!

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: running.hare
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 05:09 PM

I've also known boys enjoy clapping games.... In the privacy of their own homes, but they are basicly considered Girly ocupations.
My Guides (11-14) Love Skipping on a long rope in the hall, but proberbly woudn't take a rope in to school for fear of looking uncool, not to mention the weight of the thing!
A favorate in my early years of midde school was 'eastics' the elastic when not in use fitted in a pocket but involved 3+ girls in the game. our usualryme for this was "England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Inside, outside, inside out. Twisties, [and then whichever position she (or one of her companions) nominated to land on]" The chalenge was then to jump out of the twisted elastic & land in the possition you had nominated, either inside the elastyics, outside the elastics, stradling the elastics, or even right on top of both elastics!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: GUEST,marthabees
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 05:17 PM

Yep, they still do them. Elementary music teachers using the Orff approach constantly monitor the playground for these and use them in the classroom because they are authentic children folk music. I've heard all the ones mentioned so far here in Florida, except for the anatomical references, but I BET a few of the kids know them.

And yes, it seems to be more a girl thing than a boy thing.

Martha in Florida

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 05:18 PM

We used to play the elactics games and clapping games and skipping games. One of the rhymes began:

Raspberry, Strawberry, Gooseberry Jam
Tell me the name of your young man....

Sad to say I can't remember the rest of it. I do remember the rhymes mentioned above....and I still play the clapping games with bratling....although she is fast .....I must have slowed down with age!!!

Khatt

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 05:59 PM

Noone has mentioned the relationship between clapping and chanting games and rap and its ancestors.

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: Allan C.
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 07:05 PM

Strangely, Patty Cake hasn't been mentioned either.

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 07:14 PM

Which can be combined with mayhem, as in the Crosby/Hope/Lamarr Road movies...

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: Joybell
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 07:24 PM

Here in a country town in Australia I've been teaching elderly people old traditional singing-dances,including the clapping games - American Play-party and also other singing dances/games. Because they are self-paced - no taped music used - they are perfect as therapy and as just plain fun. They are remembered from the past by even people with dementia. From the outset I reminded my dancers that these traditions were once taught and passed on by the older members of the community and that it was only now that they were considered children's games only. Anyway the result was that now my original dancers are visiting other groups of elderly people and schools in the area - passing on the tradition to both younger and older people. Of course they also taught me the old games from their childhood. Bit of a diversion, I guess but I'm so proud of them I can't help myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 07:49 PM

Disappeared here in western Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: GUEST,alison
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 07:59 PM

we used to call the game with the elastics bands "german jumps" - no idea why


slainte

alison

Subject: RE: BS: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 21 Sep 03 - 11:15 PM

We present folk music programs in schools, mostly elementary schools. We were learning a new story in which we had to do the clapping game "Miss Mary Mack" but neither of us knew it. So, we just asked a girl at the next elementary school and she was happy to teach us. In California, at least, girls still play clapping games but not boys.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: Folklore: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 12:59 AM

Hey, be sure to take a look at Stan Kulikowski's Jumprope Hypertext Archives.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Folklore: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 01:57 AM

Around here, the game you describe as "elastics" was called chinese jumprope, and most of the guys that I grew up with played it in some form or another, whether that was because thats were the girls were, or as we said helped us with our foot work for football (american) or basketball I'm not really sure.

Chip2447

Subject: RE: Folklore: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: DMcG
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 02:55 AM

If you can get hold of "The Singing Game" by Peter and Iona Opie (ISBN 0-19-284019-3) there is an account of these clapping games. They write at one point "Boys sometimes clap fiercely in pairs, to keep warm, or 'to drive the other chap back' and this they call 'Hand Drive'. Girls clap hands to rhymes, which time the hand-beats, and their aim is to go on as long as possible without making a mistake. This kind of clapping has been going on for more than 150 years." These sentences are based on observations in around 1975. Elsewhere in the book there is the comment "the games are now under the haphazard guardianship of girls of about seven to nine." Based on when my daughter played these (she is now seventeen), that 7-to-9 range is still more or less right.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 08:09 AM

When I was working with special needs kids at my school (about three years ago) we ran a "lunchtime club" where they could sit and chat and play improving games (I'm laughing so hard!) What actually happened was they played hangman on the blackbord and did a lot of clapping rhymes.
Most I remember from when I was young, including Hi-Lo-chicca-Lo
and Eeny Meeny Testa Meeny.
I used to know all the claps too!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: Dani
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 08:09 AM

Hot off the presses from 9-yr-old daughter, provenance unknown: "Um, just from my friends and all". Haphazard guardianship indeed!

Dani




Miss Sue
Miss Sue

Miss Sue from Alabama

Her name was Suzianna

Sitting in a rocker

eating Betty Crocker

Watching the clock go

Tick Tock

Tick all around go

Tick Tock

Tick all around

A-B-C-D-E-F-G

Gotta wash that stain right out of me

Gotta Boom-shot

Gotta Boom-shot

Gotta crick in my side

Gotta crick in my side

Salt and pepper said "DO NOT MOVE"

(alternate ending)
Salt and pepper said" DO NOT MOVE,

FIRST ONE TO MOVE IS A BLACK-EYED-PEA
SECOND ONE TO MOVE IS A BEAUTY QUEEN

Subject: RE: Folklore: Do kid still do clapping rhymes?
From: muppett
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 10:27 AM

They certainly do, I got together a whole collection of them from a number of schools across the Bradford district along with numerous dipping rhymes (the rhymes used when deciding who's going to be 'it' when playing tig), let me know and I can pass some of them to you

Subject: RE: Folklore: Do kids still do clapping rhymes?
From: GUEST,bbc at work
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 11:07 AM

I work at a grade 3-5 school in rural New York. I sometimes see the girls doing clapping games, just as we did when I was a child.

best,

bbc

Subject: RE: Folklore: Do kids still do clapping rhymes?
From: M.Ted
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 01:43 PM

When I was a kid, as with Chip2447, both boys and girls played chinese jump-rope, as well as clapping games and jump-rope with rhymes. We did not do and couldn't have even imagined double-dutch, though a fair portion of our playmates were from families who considered themselves to be Dutch--

Subject: RE: Folklore: Do kids still do clapping rhymes?
From: GUEST,sharyn
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 01:43 PM

I work with kids everyday. Kids of both genders do them. I still hear "Miss Lucy," but the favorite this summer seemed to be:

Lemonade (clap, clap, clap)
Crunchy ice (clap, clap, clap)
Beat it once (clap, clap, clap)
Beat it twice (clap, clap, clap)
Lemonade, crunchy ice,
Beat it once, beat it twice,
Lemonade, crunchy ice,
Beat it once, beat it twice (gets faster and faster and continues until someone misses a clap)

Boys really like this one.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Do kids still do clapping rhymes?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 01:59 PM

When I was in elementary school in County Durham (waaaaaay more than 15 years ago), boys under 7 shared a segregated schoolyard with girls of all ages. All the lads in the Girl's Yard were obliged to twirl rope for them and sing the skipping songs.

On a mountain stands a lady,
Who she is I do not know.
All she wants is gold and silver
All she wants is a nice young man ...

After age 7 you went into the Boy's Yard where you were taught the essentials of British Bulldog and similarly rough games. Talk about culture shock! ;o)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Do kids still do clapping rhymes?
From: running.hare
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 04:13 PM

In the unsegregated playground of the early 90's we all played British bull dog *grin*

Subject: RE: Folklore: Do kids still do clapping rhymes?
From: Joybell
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 08:19 PM

We played a game called "Puss in the Corner" in Australia in the 1950s. It involved standing on the bench that went around three sides of the shelter-shed (wet-weather area) Someone -"It" stood in the middle and called "Puss Puss" and you had to try to reach the other side without getting caught by "It" There were rules about running straight across or running diagonally. Funny thing is that my American husband talks uses the term "Catty-corner" for diagonal crossovers - across the road etc. Is there a connection?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Do kids still do clapping rhymes?
From: tuggy mac
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 08:32 PM

Sounds like the birth of RAP.HO nOOOOOOOOOO!

Subject: RE: Folklore: Do kids still do clapping rhymes?
From: GUEST,dave ruch (on different computer)
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 08:36 PM

bbc,

I wonder what school district in rural ny state you are in? I work doing music programs in schools across 2/3 of NYS, excluding the Hudson Valley down to NYC.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Do kids still do clapping rhymes?
From: LadyJean
Date: 22 Sep 03 - 11:28 PM

Two African American girls behind me on the 86B bus were happily chanting:
Oh My! Don't Cry! Mommy's having a baby!
Daddy's going crazy!
If it's a boy I'll give it a toy!
And if it's a girl! I'll give it a curl!
wrap it up in toilet paper! send it down the escalator.
It was accompanied with clapping and gestures. There was also some discussion of wrapping babies in toilet paper, the conclusion being that this would not be a good idea.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Do kids still do clapping rhymes?
From: Allan C.
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 12:06 PM

It seems to me a link to this thread about The Goose Drank Wine might be appropriate here. I saw girls clapping to this rhyme a few years ago.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Do kids still do clapping rhymes?
From: Ely
Date: 23 Sep 03 - 12:46 PM

I know of Puss in the Corner but I don't think I ever played it (we played a lot of Red Rover, though, and were very serious about it--it's a wonder we didn't dislocate some shoulders). I also played Fox and Geese a few times in the snow at Meeting but I don't really recall the rules.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Do kids still do clapping rhymes?
From: running.hare
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 01:28 PM

LadyJean I love youe example.   How old ish would you say these girls were?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Do kids still do clapping rhymes?
From: Joybell
Date: 24 Sep 03 - 07:03 PM

Ely - In America? We played "Puss in the Corner" here in Australia but my husband is American - raised in Iowa - and he doesn't remember it although "Catty-corner" is his term.   Where were you brought up?

Subject: RE: Folklore: Do kids still do clapping rhymes?
From: GUEST,chip2447
Date: 25 Sep 03 - 12:43 AM

According to my sister, the teacher, seven, eight and nine year old girls still play it Quite regularly. She says the words are different, but the rhythm is still there.

Chip2447

Subject: RE: Folklore: Do kids still do clapping rhymes?
From: GUEST,Tianna
Date: 30 Dec 05 - 11:42 AM

Yes we do here is one:


Shame, Shame Shame
Alla bostia
i cant come out today
because of yesterday
these boys were in my way
they gave ne 50 cents
to lay down on a bench
they said it woudnt hurt
they stuck it up my skirt
My daddy was surprised to see my belly rise
My moma was disgusted
My brother hated me
My sister came to the hospial to see my baby boy being born
Shame

Subject: RE: Folklore: Do kids still do clapping rhymes?
From: GUEST,Angie
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 11:00 PM

My daughter does them just as I did when I was in grade school. However, the naughtiest I've ever heard was:

Apples on a stick
Make me sick
Make my tummy go two forty six
Not because I'm dirty
Not because I'm clean
Just because I kissed a boy behind a magazine
Hey girls wanna have some fun?
Here comes Johnny with his pants undone
He can wiggle
He can wobble
He can do the splits
But I betcha five bucks he can't do this
Close your eyes and count to ten
If you mess up start all over again
One, Two, Three, Four, Five, Six, Seven, Eight, Nine, Ten
Big fat hen!

(During the counting, the clappers close their eyes continuing to clap. If they mess up they start back at one. If they make it to 10 they open their eyes and yell "big fat hen!")

I can't believe how little innocence is left among our children. Especially with a chant like "Shame". It's sad really.