Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 12:23 AM

Not quite always, MMario. No advertiser has to pay extra each time someone hears or views their ad on the radio or television!:-)

Snooz, thanks for the perspective. I think that is what some of the others were getting at...to try to click only on the ones of interest, so that google is happy about it, too.

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: MMario
Date: 20 Oct 03 - 10:25 PM

snoozer - that'sa the risk of advertizing!

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: GUEST,Snoozer at Work
Date: 20 Oct 03 - 11:53 AM

I'd like to offer a view from the "other side".
I have a small web business and I use google AdSense (i.e. I pay when someone clicks on my ads which are shown on google searches).
I just want you all to be aware that when you click on an ad, it is not google who is paying Mudcat, it is the advertiser. Now if you have some interest in what the ad is selling, then great! Click away! That's the whole idea of having the ads there. But, as much as I want to support Mudcat, clicking just to click could be hurting small advertisers like myself.
I do think it's a great idea to have the ads on Mudcat. From the reports I've seen, this program does successfully produce funds for content sites that generally have no income.
So keep the ads, all I ask is that you use them responsibly!

(And just for the record, I recently had my ads removed from this program because I was getting tons of clicks and no sales. So I now just have my ads on search pages.)

Snoozer

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Amos
Date: 20 Oct 03 - 10:45 AM

Oh--THAT Schemm team! :>)

A

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Oct 03 - 10:29 AM

Do a "Find in Page" on:

emm

to find and follow the link. LOVE the calculators and other relocation tools.

~S~

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Amos
Date: 20 Oct 03 - 10:16 AM

Neither of you are making sense here. What is a Schem team?

A

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Wolfgang
Date: 20 Oct 03 - 09:37 AM

He's talking about the Schemm team.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Oct 03 - 09:14 AM

Uh, John, whaddaya talkin about?

~Confoozed

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Oct 03 - 03:54 AM

Well, we've had threads on shameless self promotion, bald faced advertising, in-your-face popups... but this subliminal stuff is just going a little too far.

INVISIBLE CLICKIES ARE TOO MUCH WORK TO FIND.

(But it's a great picture, and an impressive title! Congrats Max.)

John

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Oct 03 - 12:26 AM

Linked Ads Name Game

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Naemanson
Date: 14 Oct 03 - 12:02 AM

Well, I for one do not complain about the ads. The are understated and easy to ignore. Plus, for funding the Mudcat all you have to do is click on them every once in a while.

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: michaelr
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 06:57 PM

SRS -- that is truly horrid. Are there any human editors involved in placing these ad/links? Someone should have caught this.

There's a lot of stuff that gets through in radio and TV spots, too. I'm thinking of the Oil Stop ad that has the announcer proudly declaring "...and we'll never sacrifice speed for quality!"

And the UPS ads with the tag line "Brown nose"... You'd think someone would catch this stuff before it airs.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Amos
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 03:16 PM

SRS:

My apologies -- I just read the story, and I think my remark was out of line.

A

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Amos
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 03:14 PM

SRS:

Well, you didn't say the magic words "Don't try this at home....".


A

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 01:56 PM

I sent a link to an article about two women who were murdered and their heads and upper torsos wrapped in large black trash bags and masks placed on them. The ads at the bottom of the page were for plastic bags.

SRS

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 01:24 PM

Well, musical instruments maybe - but surely nobody buys them because they've seen an advert? They see or hear them in real life and fall in love with them.

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 01:00 PM

For a truly gruesome view on how these "intelligent" sponsored links work, take a look at the bottom of this page. (I hope it gets to you--it goes through my Earthlink "start" page.)

Ugg.

SRS

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 04:39 PM

well, I would be suprised if NO one objected to the ads. WE all wish the internet washout hadn't ruined Max's business that was supporting it. I hate those 'ads' on National Public Radio, and the semi-annual beg-a-thons, too, but I grit my teeth and live with it, because I don't want to see it dry up. (I send them a bit, too, when I can afford it).

I am aware (personally) of several other avenues Max pursued to try to deal with the money issue before considering this, and I know why a couple of them didn't work out, and it is disappointing.

What we (Mudcat) are doing now, with donation, occasional auctions, and CD & calendar sales, have barely sufficed, and I know this is nowhere NEAR a profit making enterprise, so I will put up with the ads if it turns out they help.

Harpy...it is too bad that this hits you so hard...I really hope you'll figger out how to 'not look' at the stuff, and decide that Max is really doing the best he can...

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 04:31 PM

I feel like American culture is happening against my will to me understood, agreed with. ditto.

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: GUEST,harp
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 04:27 PM

I don't know Mario, I don't have any credit card debt, and I don't owe very much for my house, so maybe I am more disciplined than I give myself credit for. But, I've got forty pairs of shoes, hundreds and hundreds of CD's, books, records, several closets full of clothes, and dozens of string instruments! I don't need all this
crap. I need more love in my life, like Morrie says...

I feel like American culture is happening against my will to me. Do you understand that? I don't need an SUV. I don't need another pair of shoes, I don't need a juicy 14 oz Publix steak and texas toast!

I need to love everyone who loves me more and concentrate on less consumables. I must be having an epiphany...I'm blowing up my TV!!!
I'm moving to the country, I'm eating peaches...

Besides Mario, if you met me you might think I was totally unlike my typed self! I can be anything here on the internet! It's very liberating!!! Personally I think I'm a wimp in person...My way of expressing my NO is to disappear in most situations.....hg

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 04:11 PM

hey! I dislke ads too! What I can't understand is that you come across as a strong minded individual with great conviction in your own opinions (NOTE: I don NOT mean that in any derogatory way - I mean that you stick to your guns)- yet you say you are so influenced by ads that you find it difficult to resist spending money on what they advertise.

it seems to be a bvery strange dichotomy.

my apologies for any upset I may have caused you. it certainly wasn't intended.

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: GUEST,harp
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 04:05 PM

Mario...I don't know if it's from years of being exposed to advertising which is increasingly creative, persuasive, and demanding of my money but I hate being impacted by it! Maybe men don't have this problem, but I know I do.

I want stuff!!!! And I hate it! Why should I need another musical instrument, another CD, another new product? We're using more than our share and my house if bursting at the seams with the crap I have bought over the years!!!!

Leave me alone with this advertising!!! Enough already! I want to live in a small band, grow my own food, and spend most of my time outdoors fighting the elements! So I'm retro! SO WHAT????

You guys just want me to get stirred up anyway, and then be frustrated...so why don't you just leave me alone!!!
Baaaaaaaa, baaaaaaaa....have all the advertising you want!!!! Are you satisfied!!!!!!

love, harpgirl

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 03:16 PM

I pretty well never spend money on things I can't pick up before I hand the money over (or the equivalent, for things I can't pick up, like trains and planes and folk festivals). I'm very old-fashioned about that.

I suppose I might get tempted to look out for something sometimes when I'm somewhere where it was on sale.

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 03:06 PM

*grin* I suspected there would be response...Do I wish to discuss it? no, not really. It's Max's decision anyway. And I doubt that ANYTHING he does to this site will ever generate enough income to pay for the time and money he has already spent on it let alone generate a profit.

but harpy....I am very influenced by advertising. I have looked at the ads and had to restrain myself from clicking on them because I know I would want to spend money I really don't need to spend on stuff I really don't need

TRULY? This astounds me. Especially given the way you present yourself in posts.

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: GUEST,harp
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 02:56 PM

Well, since you boys seem to want to discussssss this with me, let me say this about that. If Max wants to profit from the mudcat, will this approach really generate the money he wants? If he wants to profit is this going to do the trick? If he just wants to stay above water, why just that? What is he really thinking????

Dave, I am very influenced by advertising. I have looked at the ads and had to restrain myself from clicking on them because I know I would want to spend money I really don't need to spend on stuff I really don't need. I'm questioning that for myself right at the moment.

As for the mudcat costs, if we do indeed have a set amount to be generated, is it tied to the amount of advertising google will be sending us? What happens if Max gets way more than that or way less?
Max has no obligation to tell me anything or everything about the way he runs his hobbies, etc.

But we can and should raise questions about anything that affects us on a day to day basis. No one says he owes us an answer. And you people must know me well enough by now to know that the last thing I want to do is accept anything anyone tells me or does to me and smilinjgly say yes yes go ahead, like a sheep! I wouldn't be true to myself if I didn't question Max's changes. I can't apologize for that. I think it's healthy.   

If it is a wedge, so be it. But why should I go along with the majority? I live in a democracy. And, I don't want to be shamed for being a doubting Tomasina....
Sincerely,
harpy

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 01:24 PM

Maybe harpgirl is thinking this might be the thin end of the wedge. But I'm ready to believe it isn't going to be like that, and am quite happy with this level and style of ads. (And I like the Gorillas, for example.)

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 01:12 PM

"I just don;t want to be manipulated by advertising appearing here"????

Awwww, come on, Harpgirl! The ads are inconspicuous. No one can force you to click on one of them. If you're not interested, they will more or less fade into the wallpaper.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 12:51 PM

harpy - comments on a couple of your pointt. these are my opinions of course:


I just don't want to be manipulated by advertising when I come here given that people are having problems FINDING the ads - I doubt this will be a problem

I would prefer to make a pledge, though to keep the mudcat up and running. feel free to do so- others have. It costs minimum about $400 a month to run the 'cat. That's without hardware replacements, upgrades, or any re-imbursement to max for the time space and agravation.

If you want to profit from your efforts running the mudcat yeah - right. The chances of that are next to none even if you DON'T consider the backlog of expenses.

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: GUEST,harpy
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 12:43 PM

I thought about why I am against it and I decided to put it into some words, Max. I just don't want to be manipulated by advertising when I come here. It is a refuge from the dominant culture, for me. More and more I believe that Morrie (Tuesdays with Morrie) was right about our culture. It has many unhealthy aspects to it which I participate in with little thought. We all do.

I want to have my experience with the 'cat be something I think about continually, modify to make better, and build in a positive way. I do think about everything I have said and done here over the years and it has given me an important mirror as well as many hours of pleasure through friendship and sharing something I love.

As for funding your efforts on behalf of the mudcat, I can understand that you might want a reliable financial source, since you are not a 501(3)(c) I don't think. I would prefer to make a pledge, though to keep the mudcat up and running.

If you want to profit from your efforts running the mudcat, which I can understand you might, I would want you to declare this as a motivator so I can decide how I feel about that, at this point.

Sincerely, harpgirl

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: CapriUni
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 12:27 AM

The ads are below the Reply to Thread box. I think they've been moved. Didn't I see them by the Add to Tracer box yesterday?

Ah, yes. That's the switch!

Thanks, Burke!

The ads at the bottom of this thread, at the moment, are one for how to profit from Google adwords, and for banjos. Good match!

Off to search the DT ;-)...

Wonder if "I gave my love a cherry" will have ads for wedding rings?

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 06:04 PM

The "cunning suggestion" I was referring to was that we make a point of dropping in on the DT, as a quick way of finding some commercial ads to click when visiting the Mudcat, and reminding ourselves of half-remembered sogs at the same time.

Having people click on links to sites selling musical instruments and songs is pretty well built into advertising on the Mudcat, and one way and another, sooner or later, that is going to mean customers.

And who could resist investigating "ear-candles". I will guarantee that anywhere that one appears it's going to get a lot more clicks than customers. But every now and again one of the curiosity clicks is going to end up buying something, and that how advertising works.

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Burke
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 05:08 PM

The ads are below the Reply to Thread box. I think they've been moved. Didn't I see them by the Add to Tracer box yesterday? If you're not replying they are unobtrusive but easy to miss.

After looking at some of the informational pages linked to in some of the early messages, I think we need to think twice about clicking to help raise money, rather than looking at things we might really be interested in. The implication in the articles was that Google thought some sites were generating lots of false drops, so to speak. The advertisers are paying Google to get to people who will spend money with them. If they get lots and lots of hits but no bites they will not be happy with Google who, in turn will not be happy with us or Max. I don't think I saw Max asking us to follow them just for generating income. I bet it might even violate his contract if he did.

I did click on a banjo site & may well go back to make a purchase; that's the kind of traffic Google, the advertisors and, ultimately, Max want.

Let the occasional visitor follow the links to the music or whatever they find. Follow ones that really interest you. Let's us buy from Sandy or Dick even if they do not appear.

I wonder if any of us will be buying ear candles soon?

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: CapriUni
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 04:32 PM

The ads still seem to be on the forum. But that's a cunning suggestion CapriUni.

How odd. Because it really wasn't a suggestion... I was simply reporting what I witnessed.

I have not seen an add in the forum since last night, but I've seen 3 today in the Digitrad...

Hmmm... Wonder what's up with my machine, here...

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 04:24 PM

The ads still seem to be on the forum. But that's a cunning suggestion CapriUni.

I love the way the ads link in though - a thread about Chimps, and what turns up at the bottom, but the Gorilla support ad!

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: CapriUni
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 04:14 PM

Last night, I stopped seeing the ads on the forum, but then saw one of them again, in the Digitrad, at the end of a song... The song was "Proper cup of coffee" and the ads were for handmade teapots and Starbucks Coffee.

Has anyone else seen this change? I suppose it makes sense, as the Digitrad gets updated less often, and is therefore more likely to get a commericial ad (which lets the profits go to Mudcat).

This also means that to give more support to Mudcat, I should scroll through the DT more often, looking for new songs. This, too, could be a very good thing :-)

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 08 Oct 03 - 03:57 AM

Also the match of clickies to thread will lead to some humour like the Thread Name Game did.

RtS

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 09:06 AM

Seems like a good idea to me as well - keep up the great work Max!

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 07 Oct 03 - 08:28 AM

Thanks Dave O. & Bill D.

I have 7.1 on this machine but have hesitated to load it cos of the trouble my "help desk" friend had when he loaded it. I'm just a button pusher & rely on him (& 2 others) for techo help. He had major problems with his address book - I think he lost it?? & I can't risk mine (I have several hundred folk club members).

But as this netscape plays silly buggers at times (like tonight!) I'll check it out again & end him an email.

sandra

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Melani
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 06:26 PM

Thanks for the link, McGrath. I am somewhat technologically challenged. It did come up again on another thread, and I did click on the banner to viit the site.

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: open mike
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 01:17 PM

My guess is that is will not do the 'Cat any good unless you access
the web page directly from the link provided. If you cut and paste
the URL and go there directly there will be no way to trace the
path you took to get there, and no credit will come to the Cat.
Is there any benefit for the 'Cat generated by what you do after
you get to the site, or is this system simply based on "clicks?"
(or if you tell us will they have to kill you? due to top secret
status of the information...)By the way the Clickie for THIS message
now reads "MSN pay per click: $0.15 Look Smart powers results at
MSN, About.com, Netscape, and others" is this a different program?

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 12:14 PM

I have not even seen one yet, not been around for a few days.
Go ahead make a million dollars a day, just keep Mudcat alive when you are rich and famous.
Thanks, JohnB

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 12:08 PM

I have IE 5, and I've only seen ads for a couple of hours at a time, usually late in the day. Does anybody know why I can see the ads sometimes, but not all the time?

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: curmudgeon
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 11:48 AM

Good move, Max. It's really interesting to see what ads go with which threads. However, is it possible to block ads from threads that start with Obit?

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Amos
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 11:35 AM

Just to keep the record clear I believe it is the case that Mozilla preceded Netscape and NEtscape is built on the old Mozilla chassis, not the other way 'round. Mozilla was the university-borne predecessor which started making the WWW happen, before Marc Andresen (sp???) went and founded Netscape.

A

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 11:00 AM

and...if you are avoiding Netscape 7 because of all the AOL ads and/or banners, etc, it is just as easy to move up to one of the Mozilla browsers, which are built on the basic Netscape chassis and are pretty similar to Netscape in design.

The FULL Mozilla includes email & newsgroups, Mozilla Firebird does not...it is smaller and a bit faster. Firebird is still technically "under development", but does almost everything just fine, and is used by millions as their regular browser.

Both Mozilla and Firebird have extensive pop-up blocking and other features, as well as the ability to be customized in appearance.

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 10:16 AM

Sandra in Sydney:

If you go to www.netscape.com, you can download Netscape 7.1 for free.
It handles these ads fine, and works a number of other sites better than 4.x.

I had kept using 4.76 for a long time because 7.1, when I tried it, didn't recognize (or "remember") my bookmarks, nor my files of draft emails (which I use in managing a joke distribution list), etc. This development on Mudcat gave me the impetus to investigate 7.1, and I find that I just didn't have the various options set right. All is well now. I can recommend it.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 08:22 AM

Poor little me, I'm feeling very outside-looking-in.

I can't see nuffin'

sandra (using Netscape 4.0)

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 07:45 AM

But would it be this one? http://www.bigwhistle.co.uk/shop.asp

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 07:40 AM

Visit the sites advertised out of curiosity, and maybe you'll stay and buy something. That's the whole idea. So the more curious people are about them the better, and everyone gains.

They do seem to be quite well targetted. If you opened up a thread about tin whistles, Melani, I bet that one would come up pretty soon.

Subject: RE: Max's Experiment & Mudcat Funding
From: Melani
Date: 05 Oct 03 - 11:58 PM

Okay, I wanted to go to the tin whistle site, but posted my message first, and when I went back, the banner had changed to something else. How do I find the tin whistle site, or will it just come around again, or what?