ingredients for a good folk club !

Subject: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: early
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 10:46 AM

Been running a monthly concert venue for four years now with varying degrees of sucess always managing to balance books but finding audience varies greatly - is the day of regular folk concert clubs at an end?

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: VIN
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 11:20 AM

Hi Early,

Whilst audiences will always vary depending on area/location, time of year, who's on etc, folk clubs/concerts will always be around in some form or other, I reckon, as long as people want to gather and listen/sing. Where i live, around the greater manchester area there's always clubs/concerts goin on somewhere at small pub venues or medium concert venues e.g. bury met, lowry, shaw playhouse.

Ingredients for a good folk club? errr, open door (& mind) attitude, considerate and polite audience, good location (preferably with parking), real ale (optional ((but preferable )) of course!), regular guest nights if funding allows, near a town or area with good transport (bus, train, tram, tamdom.......) cos there are still some of us out there who don't drive!

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 11:30 AM

Early, are we to assume this folk club is in the U.K.?   I can't really tell by your notes.

Here is the U.S. we have a similar issue. The audience is getting older and not getting out as much as in previous decades. The costs are running higher for clubs to keep their doors open. What is happening here in the U.S. is "house concerts" are becoming more popular. Artists appear in living rooms in intimate concerts for groups of about 20 people.   Artists can book enough of these gigs to make a tour possible. For the "venue", there is no need for amplification and the other costs are kept at a minimum. For the audience, the cost is usually lower. Everyone wins.

Of course there is no "real ale" at these events and you lose the "pub" feel, but the music is the draw.

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: black walnut
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 11:34 AM

A sense of community, belonging to the club somehow. At each I like how one of our folk clubs in Toronto invites regulars to do 1/2 hour openers for the main act. At each concert I've been to, someone asks the audience to hold up hands if they are there for the first time. This encourages people to talk during the break and make newcomers feel welcome. We also get to put away all the tables at the end of the evening. A long lineup to the small washroom encourages conversation. Setting chairs at tables, not in rows, creates an intimate setting, unless the turnout demands warrants the extra seating. Our thoughtful co-ordinators even put a bowl of nibblies on each table. Lower prices for teens helps to encourage younger ones to taste folk, as does having a 'Youth Night' once a year which features young folk performers.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: Hovering Bob
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 11:42 AM

Hi Early,
Concert clubs do exist in the U.K., e.g. Nettlebed and Hitchin, but they are few and far between. In a previous existence I was involved in running a successful concert club but I will admit, they are not my favourite form of folk entertainment.
It is the people that make a successful club. Given the right club members almost any format will work. My preference is for a good singing club with occasional guests such as Herga and Maidenhead. All clubs have their good and not so good evenings but the 'wall of sound' that hits you when the singer reaches a chorus at these two clubs is why I, and a good many other members continue to attend.
Other factors obviously have some impact, the beer, the venue etc but when it comes down to it. It's the people that make a good club.

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: black walnut
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 12:00 PM

Yes. I should have mentioned the sound. We have 2 of the best sound people - Lydia and Jason. They are fantastic. You don't have a good club with a good listening audience if you don't have good sound.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 12:48 PM

black walnut, what Hovering Bob meant was the human "wall of sound", i.e. the club members joining in the choruses en masse and raising the rafters. We recently had Felicia Pint literally "pinned to the wall" at the first chorus of the evening! But then, when the club members include the likes of Johnny Collins, Graeme Knights, Mike Sparks, HergaKitty (Vernon), Hovering Bob and out MC George Clarke, with occasional visits from Leadfingers, Malcolm Austen, Moira Craig, Tony & Pearl O'Neil, the quality of the singing is nothing short of superb.
I am with Hovering Bob on this. My favourite clubs are singers' clubs with the occasional guest (one a month, or one a fortnight) and plenty of singers' nights in between. Concert clubs cannot easily promote a sense of "belonging" - some manage it, but very few, and they can never match the singers' clubs for warmth in my book. Just my personal view...

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 02:21 PM

As a singer myself, I have a sneaky preference for singers nights. However, as we are talking about song clubs, the very successful Everyman club which I support on a regular basis is a brilliant concert club with about 40 mins of floor spots in both halves of the evening for regulars. You have to let the organisers know you are coming in advance to book a floor spot ( they have a tight time schedule and the whole evening works like clockwork!) If you are a visiting superstar you might get to sing without the usual notice, but someone else would have to drop out.
The club is situated in a rather remote area of Suffolk, but is always well supported, with standing-room only on many evenings. The organisers work their socks off to publicise the club around the area, and the majority of the audience isn't your usual folkie. They come out for a good night's entertainment never mind the booked guest, and that's what they get. They are great at joining in choruses too.
An added bonus for asthmatics like me is that the club is non-smoking.

From my experience over many years of organising and visiting folk clubs, good clubs all do the following:

1.Start on time.

2.Have good floor singers.( One song for unknown visiting singers will usually sort out the incompetent from the capable.)

3.Have subdued lighting - many people are embarrassed about singing choruses - the low lighting makes it more anonymous.

4.Have organisers who know what are the trends nationally, and network locally.

5.Have a group of supporters who will talk to newcomers so that they begin to feel that they belong.


I have always liked to hear a resident band of musicians who play when people are arriving - it helps to break the ice and people feel they can chat to others without being overheard. Musicians like to practice somewhere too, and are usually glad to get an opportunity to play. The Ryburn 3 step club in West Yorkshire is a very good example of this enhancement to the evening's entertainment.

I am sure that there are lots of club organisers and supporters out there who can add to my list.

Mary Humphreys

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 02:44 PM

Mary has covered most of it I think. A pit band makes a huge difference and lets the entertainment start promptly even if there is a shortage of floor singers.

Good chorus singing from the audience does wonders for the atmosphere but you need a core of strong singers for this to work.

It is vital to remember that people are paying money for what you are offering. If they feel cheated not only will they not come back but they will slag off folk clubs in general to all their friends.

Meeting and greeting is vital. Punters remember the door crew and expect the door crew to remember them.

Build a good team to help run the club. There are a lot of different skills needed, it is unusual for one individual to have them all.

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: early
Date: 09 Oct 03 - 09:30 PM

Ron Olesko cheers house concerts also successful in new zealand and oz not sure if brits ready for them
what say you brits are we gonna try em?

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 02:25 AM

Have you seen the size of the average sitting room in Britain? To fit 20 bodies in most people would have to use the bathroom also.

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: GUEST,Santa
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 05:26 AM

My local club is what this thread terms a concert club, in that we have guests of pretty high quality almost every week, with one floor spot first for the more regular club singers. As a non-performer this suits me fine, but I can see who some might find it constricting. However there are other local clubs with different policies, and there doesn't seem to be any complaints on the "joining in on the choruses" front.   As my wife and daughter have developed as performers through floor spots here, the club can't be totally useless in that respect, either.

The main problem I see with Singers nights is that the non-regular performers wait to do their spot and then bugger off: I think that selfish and disrespectful. I don't think that this adds a lot to the value of the club or the folk movement.

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 06:18 AM

Yes, Santa, I too hate seeing people turn up for their spot then leaving when they've had their turn. It says a lot about their character, team spirit, interest in the music over personal showing off etc. But at Herga and Maidenhead, this does not happen except very occasionally when someone is plain knackered (for example when someone has just driven over from a festival direct to the club, as often happens).

I would go to Herga even if I was told to shut up and never perform there again - everybody else's singing is THAT good.

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: VIN
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 06:43 AM

Some good points there, especially the 'people make the clubs' point and the welcoming atmosphere. People have always felt the cliquishness that you often experience at folk clubs very off-putting. I agree el greko, there's nowt better and more warming than a room-full of peeps raising the rafters in a good chorus song!

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: GUEST,Santa
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 06:49 AM

I think the key problem for any club is how to balance the provision of quality entertainment for those who just pay and listen (joining in or not) and supporting the development of those club members who want to perform. This must be a severe problem for isolated clubs: here on the Fylde we have a range that people can choose from. We have a singer/songwriter session in St. Annes; a more traditionally-biased concert club in Blackpool, a sing-around with occaissional guests in Fleetwood, a musician's session in Poulton, and not to mention a thriving club in Preston that I'm embarrassed to admit I've never been to. (I hope I haven't misrepresented any of them...) So people with different tastes can gravitate to the club/session that suits them best.

I don't think that there is a single best recipe for a folk club - but the prime ingredient is an enthusiastic committed organiser with lots of back-up. Given this most varieties of approach will work.

I'm doubtful about the house concert approach in the UK. Our lounge is some 22ft by 11ft, and probably 50% larger than the norm. We perhaps could squeeze in 20 people and a single acoustic performer - no Tanglefoot - but only by removing all the furniture. Bring your own chair.... think of the queue for the loo at the break.

Plus I'm not sure how the acoustics would work, or how an audience of 20 would meet a reasonable performer's fees. Maybe as a special event, a subsidised party? I could suggest to my wife that we book Maggie Boyle for my next birthday, but she'd probably want Dougie MacLean for hers......

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: breezy
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 07:41 AM

20 x £10 max = £200
Invitation only.
You could get a lot for that.
Try it and see.
This is not a bad idea.
Limited ticket numbers can drive up ticket prices.
Its worth considering.

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: GUEST,Santa
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 08:35 AM

Well, us poor/tight Northerners, you know, I was assuming more like £5 a head.

What about the legal position? According to my deeds I can't use the house for any business other than a doctor's surgery. Charging money for attendance makes it a public performance, doesn't it? Licences? What about fire escapes? What about parking in the neighbourhood? If you appease the neighbours by offering them free tickets that's your take down significantly.

Maybe hold it outdoors and claim it's a barbeque? It might work on Club Day when there are a lot of private parties being thrown. Except that the noise from the fair would drown out the performer, so that's out.

First requirement: move to big house in country - but not too far out.

Alternatively - speak to Farmer John about the use of his barn.....

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 09:30 AM

From Personal Experience:

Essential Items for a Folk Club.

1) Dim Lighting (especialy for the performers) - so nobody can be tempted to actuallysing from crib sheets, and if the lighting is dim enough, the audience can't see the acts either. I spent quite some time in Theatre, and the First Rule of Stage Lighting says: If you can't be seen, you won't be heard. Candles in wine bottles are useful, they drip hot wax over tables and occassionally people, and with luck, or good planning can liven up a dull evening by setting fire to parts of the venue.

2) If you don't like dim lighting - then make the audience's eyes implode by going the other way.

3) The Committee: this self appointed body, usually drawn from the lesser talented who would not dare to show up others by actually performing themselves, place themselves in the best spots to seeing and hearing, talk loudly during the bits they don't like or can't understand, and generally give instrumentalists the benefit of their lack of expertise in intruments they don't play.

4) The Cloth Ear Sub-Comittee: this self appointed body surfaces from the cream of a large Committee, the rule is - empty vessels make most sound.

There are other essentials, but I have run out of time for the moment.

Robin

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 09:49 AM

House concerts are a different breed, and your laws in the UK might prevent them.

Over the last 100 years or so, we have all been groomed to accept folk music as an entertainment source with all the trappings of show business. House concerts are a different mindset for both the audience and performer. You don't go to a house concert expecting the same atmosphere as you would in a club. The acoustics are fine. Performers actually relax a bit more and in a small room the sound is perfect. Isn't folk music about basics - do you need a sound system for that?

As to people lining up for the bathroom, it isn't as big of a problem as it may seem.   

Inviting strangers into your homes?   Many people do feel uncomfortable about that, but I have not heard of any problems. Chairs? Lawn chairs, benches and sitting on pillows are all acceptable. No one who attends expects theater seats.

Performers fees?   Generally they accept less than they would for a full blown club gig.   House concerts are a great way of "filling in the blanks" of a schedule.    Many performers actually make a decent living relying only on house concerts.   It also seems that performers do well with CD sales at events like these. It is like a tupperware party - everyone feels the need to buy something in small groups.   Performers also enjoy them because it is an opportunity to experment and get feedback that wouldn't be possible in a larger venue.

I'm not saying it is the perfect answer to the folk club issue. The U.K. might not be able to accept house concerts culturally. However, it has become an important stage here in the U.S. to help perpetuate folk music.

If you are interested in exploring the concept, I suggest a visit to this website - www.houseconcerts.com

There is a great links page that will direct you to some of the more established house concert series here in the U.S. There are more starting each week, and they are here to stay!

Ron

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 10:28 AM

Over the years my wife and I inherited the running of several clubs and they ran with varying degrees of success
We finally decided to start a new club and found that our formula was successful, in as much that when we passed in on the a new organiser he had a bank balance to play with.
We started on a Friday night at 8.30, we started even if the room only had a scattering of people, the audience very quickly understood that if they were not there at 8.30 they would miss out.
We accepted 5 singers per week who got in free, after that EVERY paid, even if a well known "turn" came in they would be asked to pay.
We had a guest each week, trad one week, contempary the next, and tried to get a humerous act the third, although this wasn't always possible.
Two singers, two songs to start the night, followed by Artiste, then a break were we sold raffle tickets, badges of the club, told people what was happending in the near furture and TALKED to people, it is vital people feel part of the club, if anyone new appeared my wife would attract me and I would introduce myself, take them to the bar, buy then a pint and sit them with someone I could rely on to teach them the etiquette of the club, basically no walking or talking while someone is singing.
The second half would have 3 singers doing 2 numbers or 2 doing 3 followed by the guest.
I also wrote a column for the local paper, were astonishly good reports were filed every week .............amazin' :-)
It worked very well even though I say it myself, the room looked full with 30 people in, every week we had 50-60 crambed in, it seemed to suggest a succesful club and because it suggested it more people came having been told about this wonderful club by their friends

Good Luck, hope you can pick something useful out of this

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: Pied Piper
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 10:46 AM

A Humane killer.
TTFN
PP

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: breezy
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 11:54 AM

o.k santa, when you booking me?
I do charity nights.

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: GUEST,JOHN OF ELSIE`S BAND
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 11:56 AM

Experience is worth thousand words. Come to our "Sing and Play" evenings at Elsie`s, Cowden Pound, Kent, once a month with paid guests and we guarantee performers or just listeners an enjoyable
time.

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: treewind
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 12:01 PM

Raggytash's suggestion of starting at the appointed time regardless of how many have turned up is a good one which I wish a few other orgnisers would understand.

It ties in with the earlier remark about people feeling they've had their money's worth. It's all very well saying: oh it's only a club, it all loose and informal, people like to have a chat, don't want to impose on them, etc. but the truth is that they've paid for that time between (official start) and (actual start), and of course running late means the few who do arrive early the first time won't bother again.

A resident band is a great idea of achieving that if you can hack it, but it does need the right people, whether's that's an organised band of a pool of musos just having a bit of a session.

Anahata

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: The Shambles
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 12:16 PM

Yes don't forget the most important feature - the raffle.

It is true and rather sad that house concerts in the UK are rather scuppered by our new Licensing Act. I say sad as it is unlikely that our powers-that-be have any idea what they are.

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 03:14 PM

Santa had a good point about balancing quality of performers / entertainment and developing local talent. El Greko's over-egged the quality of singing at Herga a bit - yes, the wall of sound is great, and quite a few of our regulars are semi-pro, but we do listen on Singers' nights to anyone who will have a go at singing, regardless of experience and confidence. And we try to provide an atmosphere to give confidence to the less experienced.

I like the craic in the more informal sessions as opposed to concerts, when you get some banter going between the performers and the audience (whether on a guest night or Singers' night).

Kitty

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Oct 03 - 03:21 PM

When I was fresh into divorce I re-discovered Folk Clubs (blame the ex-wife for the desertion). What I found was a hot bed of heing and sheing, singles, children of settled folkies and a lot of socialising - a community. We had club swaps for those that wanted to wander (keep it in the club as it were) and we put on Ballad Documentaries and went into the wider world, had a Harvest Supper once a year. In short a lot of communal activity. That club has moved on but not necessarilly upwards - new organisers new ideas and it is different.
So am I!!!!!
But I do feel that community spirit is a good thing for cohesion.

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: dermod in salisbury
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 12:54 PM

I agree that Raggytash has the right idea. Pity he doesn't live in Salisbury. I attended one folk night which took place in a pub back room the size of a postage stamp. The advertised guest fiddler started an hour late because the organiser felt the audience was still not big enough. By that time, some people were already leaving. Despite the smallness of the room, the fiddler had set up massive amplification. After a perfunctory introduction, he sped through his sets with a minimum of dialogue. What an abysmal evening. Never again. So, from an audience perspective, the key ingredients are an open door, a welcome atmosphere, a good host, and a planned evening that ensures something is always going on. If there is a visiting performer, he/she should start on time, use minimum amplification or none at all, and try to establish a relationship with those who turn up to listen. The closer a club comes to being a farmhouse kitchen, the better.

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: breezy
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 03:32 PM

get a good organiser, good guests,loads of residents,an interfering landlady,someone to underwrite any losses,then kick out the organiser.

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: GUEST,jenup
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 04:06 PM

Oh Breezy

You know that thread's dead.

However, I feel you should know that the landlady's not the villain in all of this - a few people with 'a gutful of venom' are hiding behind her. Maybe you are like me and feel that, however uncomfortable it gets, if there is injustice and cruelty you have to stand up and be counted. 'Last night I had the strangest dream ...' and while ever basically good people behave cruelly to another basically good person it will remain a very, very strange dream.

Keep the Faith.

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: early
Date: 11 Oct 03 - 05:24 PM

that thread is dead but if you really need to know how it happened you have never really known the people involved - nuff said

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: breezy
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 10:11 AM

What thread are you talking about?
This is my observation on what happens when something works and the inevitable outcome.
Jealousies often play a role.
Usually things start to fall apart or someone grabs it by the balls and picks it up, but they must be ready to be shot at in the fullness of time.
There must be leaders.
Benevolent dictators play an intrinsic part in all 'clubs' and groupings without them there remains a void.
My projects usually last now only 3-4 years.
This is year 3 and so far so good, but I aint doing it forever.
If you're ever in s w herts please visit the Friday evening song club at the Comfort Hotel, St Albans, this week 17th Oct its Johnny Collins, N/W George Papavgeris then on 31st October Roy Bailey.
PM me for further info.

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 12:09 PM

As someone who cashes regularly his credits with Breezy in order to nag him about this thing and that in the running of the club, I have to aknowledge - grudgingly - that a leader is required. Which is not surprising when you think about it, because few ventures were ever successful without someone to pick up the can, stick their neck out etc (I am generalising here). Sometimes it will be money that they are risking, and sometimes reputation; or health; or time with the family etc etc. But quick decisions, and daring ones, can only be taken by single individuals.
But the idea of a committee didn't just happen either - it was developed through common sense. Committees also have a role to play in smoothing rough edges and providing checks and balances - and also support, because nobody can do it all by themselves.
It's no different in folk clubs than in business, government, and even the army.

Now, who is going to be the auditor? Or the MP? Perhaps the PEL inspectors!

C U Friday, "mon general"!

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: Naemanson
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 05:20 PM

There are good ideas here. Now it's my turn. My credentials? I worked at the Side Door coffeehouse (folk club and house concert combination in New England, USA) for several years. That coffeehouse is still going strong. My position there started as an audience member and evolved to being one of the organizers and planners.

First and foremost for success is consistency. Decide when to be open and always be open then. You will have some night when nobody will show up and other nights when you will have standing room only.

Light the stage and give the audience the anonymity of dim lights.

Have a decent sound system but don't overwhelm the audience.

Welcome the audience and stress how important they are to the success of the venue.

It has been my experience that the best combination of acts is to have an open mike followed by a known act. I have heard Jez Lowe and Gordon Bok both express their happiness at participating in such a mix of performers. The amateurs bring additional audience members to hear only them and a percentage of those will be back in later nights.

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 05:35 PM

You done good Brett! You of all people know what ingredients are needed for a good folk club! I wish you were back here in Bath, Maine.
Maggie and I are now members of the Chocolate Church and we have tickets for Tom Rush and Battlefield Band coming soon.

Woody

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: John Routledge
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 05:53 PM

Some of the venues I attend are experiencing difficulties.

Thanks to the many very perceptive and helpful comments I now have an idea why and will concentrate on venues which have the most potential to move forward. Hopefully this will not kill them off :0)

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: Peter Woodruff
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 05:58 PM

OK!

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 10:32 PM

One of the things that [breezy] seems to be trying to avoid by limiting things to 3-4 years is the development of "cliques" - litlle human political groupings which tend to take over social things - they don't even need to KNOW what they are on about, they eventually have the power to rule and exclude those "outside" the clique.

If your session rarely gets new faces, who disappear after one or a few meetings, then perhaps you should care to worry - unless you ARE in the clique, in which why case should you care about this?   :-)

See my previous comments about "THE COMMITTEE" above :-) [El Greko] - I am not referring to the group of hard working unthanked people who do things like the bank acount, etc... :-)

Robin

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 02:33 AM

"And you are right too", Robin, as the rabbi said in "Fiddler on the Roof". Every good thing has its form of travesty - the benevolent dictator is mirrored by "the bxxxxrd who does what he/she wants", the committee has the clique as its caricature, the humble floorsinger has the show-off who (according to the rest)should have their instrument ceremoniously burned or mouth taped; and the attentive audience has the group of loudmouths that want to continue their conversation come what may.
And so we come full circle to the truth at the bottom of it all, as stated by Hovering Bob above:
It's about the people, really. Get them right, and you're off on the path to success. Get them wrong, and you might as well shut the club now and spare yourself the agony.
And the biggest prize of all goes to those amongst us who know - really know - in which of those categories we belong.

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: Naemanson
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 06:14 AM

The Bath-Brunswick Folk Club (no connection to the Side Door Coffeehouse) is essentially one person who does all the work and takes all the risks. She is also Murray who posts here occasionally. There used to be more people in the club but they went off to develop there musical careers and dumped the job on Murray. And you know who you are, Julia!

The point is that Murray gets to be the autocrat and the rest of us work(ed) as volunteers helping her out as best we could. It makes for a very nice arrangement for there is no committee and no arguments. As we all know a committee can take ideas down a dark alley to quietly strangle them.

The same thing goes for the Side Door Coffeehouse. Guest, Wintergreen, runs that much the same way.

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: Hamish
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 07:13 AM

I recently received this from a fellow-folker. Suitably anonymised to protect the guilty:


".... armed with a booklet on the folk scene in ____ the only place that appeared to be open last Monday was in ____! I should've known it was not going to be a great night when I phoned the guy up and asked if there was a house guitar or someone who might lend me one and got a very negative reply i.e. no and unlikely. O.K. so I'll just go and listen, you never know, once your chatting to people...

"After driving for an absolute age I realised that 1) it was much further from ____ than I'd thought and 2) I was lost. I decided to quit and pulled in to very nice looking Indian restaurant somewhere on the edge of ____. (It was exceptionally good and was run by a 2nd or 3rd generation Indian and his English wife with a Pakistani chef... but that's another story...) It turns out the owner knows the building where the club is, it's only around the corner and he draws me a map. So I arrive 10 minutes before the half-time break and as someone is performing I just slip in, no chance of any 'hello's, and sit right by the entrance where there is a desk with a man and a woman sat at it. I pay the entrance fee to the woman who never says another word to me all night. The chap stands up at half time with some parish notices so it's possible he was the guy I spoke to on the phone but he just squeezes past a few times on his way to/from the bar/loo etc. and never makes eye contact or says anything. The order of play is decided by a bloke to my right on the other side of the entrance who also appears not to realise there is a stranger in a room full of familiar faces. Now I'm used to joining a bus queue and no one taking any notice but in a folk club? Anyway, the order of play was ad-hoc so I never got in a position where I was next in the circle and, this may be sour grapes, but the quality of performance was very so so. Their loss, I'd say.

"Tuesday I phone up about a singaround in ____ - "just come along, you can use my guitar no problems". Arrive at a grotty looking pub in a grotty looking area of town and go in. The club takes place in the lounge bar, no separate room, people chatting at the bar, lads in the other bar playing pool, juke box on, pretty noisy all round. A great big bloke, Simon (doesn't look like a Simon), with a voice so gravelly he must have swallowed the quarry is in charge. "You the bloke who phoned up?" - good start! Simon kicks off. Voice so loud he drowns out the juke box and bashes hell out of a 12-string. Nothing subtle or pretentious about this guy - fantastic stuff. He told me later he uses the 12 string to 'cut through the noise of all the bastards talking at the bar'. Hands me the 12 string and I strut my stuff. Anyway a small, friendly but varied group of musicians in both styles and abilities. An audience which grew to a respectable size throughout the evening and everyone, even those chatting at the bar, applauded each performer. Altogether a very enjoyable night!

"Cheers,

"The Traveller"

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 07:35 AM

Hamish,
I've been there, sounds just like ______!

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 12:05 PM

There has only been one passing mention of room acoustics so far, yet I believe that it is a major factor that can make one venue work and another fail. Sometimes it's not even the room itself, but the way it's been set out. There have several times when I've had a gig, that I've insisted on singing from a different part of the room and the difference has been enormous. In fact Linda and I will be doing exactly that on this Thursday night.

Why do so many clubs insist upon putting the performer at one end of a long room ? The volume of sound diminishes in proportion to the sqare of the distance from it's source (inverse square law). It therefor makes sense to try and get as much of your audience as possible in a band roughly the same distance from the performer as possible ie a semicircle around the midpoint of he longest side. That way your audience will feel (and actually be) closer to the performer and chorus singing will also be easier too.

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: treewind
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 01:11 PM

Of the two most successful clubs that I visit regularly, one has the stage in the middle and the other at the end. I don't think it makes much of a difference really - as long as you it's understood by all concerned that the back of the room is not an area for hanging out and talking, so you can still hear the performers back there.

I can entirely see the logic of putting the stage in the middle, but for some reason clubs don't always like to do that, or constantly try different arrangements from one week/month to the next.

No, I don't know why either...

Anahata

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: breezy
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 07:34 PM

Good point Dave, but in your case the longer the better, the room that is.!!
I change the focal point of the singers so as to bring a variety to the audience and thus it gives the evening a fresh appearance from previos weeks.
I will one night have a performance from the centre of the room, with a duo or trio facing inwards as the watersons would have stood as they were fond of standing in an inward formation as it lends itself better to hearing and watching each other.
Artistes should be consulted about where they think it best they perform from.

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: Blowzabella
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 08:23 PM

In terms of logistics and how a room is laid out, I think that probably, the reason most clubs will put a performer at the end of a room and not in the middle is primarily for reasons of access for the audience. Not just things like access in emergencies, although clearly, these considerations have to be uppermost in any organiser's mind, when he is, in effect, inviting the public to a venue he (generally) has no practical control over. Simple things like minimising disruption to a performance, by people wanting to go to the loo, or nip out between songs to the bar. It's a lot easier if they aren't having to shuffle past the stage

That's just a comment - I really don't feel qualified on contributing to what makes a good folk club - beyond what has been said already. Any club that has kept going for even five/ten years is a success

Subject: RE: ingredients for a good folk club !
From: Naemanson
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 09:00 PM

The concerts put on by the Bath-Brunswick Folk Club are usually in a squarish room ath the Chocolate Church Arts Center. Those done at the Side Door Coffeehouse are also in a squarish room in the basement of the Pleasant Street Unitarian Church. The acoustics are good in each room.

When the concerts put on by the BBFC look as though they will pull in a larger crowd then the venue is run upstairs in the Chocolate Church itself and the acoustics there are absolutely the best in the world. There is a real thrill in performing from that stage.