Tune ADD: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)

Subject: Tune Req: Bring Us a barrel
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 12:18 PM

Bring Us a Barrel

Any possibility of getting the tune posted?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a barrel
From: Marje
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 12:25 PM

I'll have a go!

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a barrel
From: Marje
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 01:54 PM

It's done now and ready to go, but I am having a problem with my mail server and am currently holding the phone and listening to an inane jingle while I await help from Technical Support.

I'll send the tune off as soon as I can.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a barrel
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 02:16 PM

no problem Marje!

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a barrel
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 09:40 AM

THANK YOU! recieved 2 copies!

(I guess it pays to beg occasionally! *grin*)

X:1
T:Bring Us a Barrel
C:Keith Marsden
N:transcribed by Hazel Bolton from the Keith Marsden songbook
I:abc2nwc
M:3/4
L:1/8
K:F
C2|F2A2c2|(c B) A2(A G)|F2G2A2|G4C2|
F2F2E2|D B3G2|E2F2G2|C6|A2A2c2|
(c B) A2(A G)|F2G2A2|G4C2|F3G A2|B4G F|
E2F2G2|F4C2|F2F2G2|A2A2G2|F3G A2|G6|
F2F2G2|A2A2G2|F2G2A2|G6|A2A2c2|
(c B) A2(A G)|F3G (A B)|G4C2|(F3G) (A B)|
c2c2(A c)|(B c/2 B A2)G2|F4

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a barrel
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 11:24 AM

MMario - the opening lines as written by Keith go:
No man who's a drinker takes ale from a pin
For there is too little good stuff there within
rather than the entry in DT which is very weak in comparison.

I gather that it was about the first song that Keith wrote and that for many years he let people think that it was traditional. If you want to find more of his wonderful songs, try and get hold of his songbook "Picking Sooty Blackberries" - it was sadly published postumously, but has quite a lot of info on the background to each song.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a barrel
From: gnomad
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 02:14 PM

Picking Sooty Blackberries;

Pub 1992: Fellsongs Music Publishing, Workington, Cumbria, CA14 3EW, UK.

ISBN 1 871318 01 7

And worth every penny!

Subject: Lyr Add: BRING US A BARREL (Keith Marsden)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Apr 05 - 02:44 PM

Having recently heard this song performed by Two Black Sheep and a Stallion, I'm happy to refresh this thread.

Here are Keith's lyrics, plus an extra verse by a friend, as printed in PICKING SOOTY BLACKBERRIES:

From the singing of the late Keith Marsden : © Fellside Recordings 1992 See "Picking Sooty Blackberries" p. 22 - (pub. by Fellside Recordings - ISBN 1 871318 01 7.... ) *with an extra verse from the singing of that nice Mr Shuttleworth (who says he sang it in front of Keith and didn't get hit, so he concludes it was sort of approved).

BRING US A BARREL

No man that's a drinker takes ale from a pin
For there is too little good stuff there within
Four and a half is it's measure in full
Too small for a sup, not enough for a pull...

Then bring us a barrel and set it up right
Bring us a barrel, to last out the night
Bring us a barrel, no matter how high
We'll drink it up Lads, we'll drink it dry.

The poor little firkin's nine gallons in all
Though the beer it is good, the size is too small
For lads that are drinkers like you and like I
That firkin small barrel too quickly runs dry.

And when that I'm dying and on me death bed
By me bedside leave a fine full hogshead
That if down below I mun go when I die
Me and old Nick we will both drink it dry.

*The Kilderkin's Next and although rather small
At least it is better than nothing at all
Its eighteen full gallons will just about do
Provided, of course, there's another for you.

Then bring forth the Puncheon and roll out the butt
Them's the best measures before me to put
Our pots will go round and good ale it will flow
And we'll be contented for an hour or so.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a barrel
From: breezy
Date: 23 Apr 05 - 02:50 PM

could that be the Kilderkin verse I heard from Geoff at Stortfolk?

He came in with it on one of my gigs.

Sugs, Dr Dr

All the best Dave Bryant, see u in St Albans one day?

Strollin Johnny tomorrow at the legion, there I go again, old habits die hard,sorry

and its non-smoking

www.folk4all.net

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a barrel
From: GUEST,padgett (at home)
Date: 23 Apr 05 - 03:22 PM

Never heard the Kilderkin verse, but clearly in keeping!

Keep singing

Of course odd words are changed here and there but the spirit loves on!

Ray padgett

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a barrel
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 23 Apr 05 - 06:33 PM

New Heritage, Leeds 1971, how good could life be?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a barrel
From: BB
Date: 13 May 05 - 04:50 AM

Dave, my understanding is that Keith's first song, which doesn't appear in 'Picking Sooty Blackberries', was 'The Bristol Mail'. I often wondered why he wrote it, as it's a bit of a way from Yorkshire! Wish I'd asked him when I had the chance...

Barbara

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Aug 10 - 10:32 AM

Is that tune available in a more accessible notation than ABC?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Aug 10 - 10:36 AM

ah-hah

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: Mysha
Date: 23 Oct 13 - 11:08 PM

Hi,

The value for the puncheon, as given with the Digital Tradition is not right for this song.

The relative sizes are:

1 Tun = 2 Butt = 3 Puncheon = 4 Oxhead = 6 Barrel
1 Barrel = 2 Kilderkin = 4 Fourthkin = 8 Pin

As can be seen from the lyrics, in this case the Fourthkin is equalled to 9 gallon, so the full unit, the barrel, would be 36. That makes the Tun 216 gallons, and a Puncheon being a third of that, it is 72 gallon.

Mind, these values I had understood to be beer measures, rather than ale measures, so it may well be that for ale a puncheon ought to be the value given in the DT, but for the song we have to stick with these values. I expect fitting ale measures in the metre of the song would prove quite a bit more difficult.

Bye
                                                               Mysha

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: Mysha
Date: 23 Oct 13 - 11:17 PM

By the way, wasn't there a bit about there never being enough ale unless it were raining ale?

Bye
                                                                  Mysha

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: breezy
Date: 24 Oct 13 - 04:26 AM

so Firkin = Fourthkin


and the Kilderkin comes after

so the Kild verse should be 3rd

Hogshead = Oxhead

Got it

thanks mysha

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: Mysha
Date: 27 Oct 13 - 08:41 AM

Hi,

Oops, I see I automatically changed the spelling to match the etymology.

Yes, it's building up from 1/8th=Pin, 1/4=Firkin, so if you have the Kilderkin verse it's the next one 1/2=Kilderkin. And next of course you reach the whole barrel that the refrain is talking about.
I guess for a short version, one could just to the three fractions and the refrain.

You're welcome.
(For extra credit, the pupil may sing Barley Mow from Nipperkin up to Tun.)
                                                                  Mysha

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Oct 13 - 09:57 AM

Can we get that tune in dots, or midi, or better still sung by a good singer - I want to do it with RC4 and finding a nice clear recording is hard?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: Mysha
Date: 27 Oct 13 - 04:28 PM

Hi,

Richard, there's abc code somewhere near the top of this thread, and there's a converter to tadpoles on fences at Mandolin tab net, which will also export your converted score to midi or pdf afterwards.

Youtube has, currently, a video of Ged doing a fair rendition of the song at Swindown Folk club. You have to find your own style in it, though. Me, I find I like the song best when at least the verse has a rolling quality to it; imagine rolling a barrel and singing; it's not going to speed up in speech or stop at the end of a sentence. Push-roll-roll, push-roll-roll, etc. Hard to do on an instrument, so I'd prefer just vocals for this one. But your kilometres may vary.

I hope that's of use,
Bye
                                                                Mysha

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Oct 13 - 07:17 PM

Thank you Mysha - I wonder why I did not find that on previous attempts.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Oct 13 - 07:32 PM

The song is in Picking Sooty Blackberries: Songs of Keith Marsden, if you can find a copy.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 28 Oct 13 - 09:45 AM

How it should be sung!

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: Mr Happy
Date: 20 Nov 13 - 06:58 AM

Anyone have explanations of the 1st verse?

What kind of drinking vessel is a 'pin'?

4 & a half is its measure in full - measure of what?

Not enough for a pull?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: Mr Happy
Date: 20 Nov 13 - 09:40 AM

Doesn't anyone know?

I'll be singing it tonight, in case someone asks

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: Mr Happy
Date: 20 Nov 13 - 09:40 AM

Doesn't anyone know?

I'll be singing it tonight, in case someone asks

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: Mr Happy
Date: 20 Nov 13 - 09:46 AM

Just found this

Pin

A pin is equal to half a firkin (4.5 imp gal or 20 l). Plastic versions of these casks are known as "polypins" and are popular in homebrewing. The word "polypin" has subsequently become commonly used in Britain for bag-in-box containers of any size.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: sleepyjon
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 06:53 AM

Mr Happy, I notice no-one ever explained a "pull"; - I guess you'll probably have gathered by now that it's a good healthy slurp or mouthfull - an enthusiastic beer drinker once insisted to me "I like to drink a pint in three or four pulls" - just before he fell over, as I recall.

That brings me to my own question about the words of the last line of the first verse - I'd always understood them to be "Too much for a sip, not enough for a pull" - which is how it's sung in Georgiansilver's link posted above - and the kind of nice literary construct that I'd expect from a lyricist of Keith Marsden's quality (I'm sure there's a word for it, but it escapes me.) However, it is indeed printed as "Too small . . . " in Picking Sooty Blackberries. Does anyone recall hearing Keith sing it by himself? - what version did he use?

SJ

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: MoorleyMan
Date: 18 Jul 14 - 10:51 AM

Now I've always sung "too small for a sup, not enough for a pull". That's what Keith sings on the original LP recording (on "Prospect, Providence"), and as later printed in the PSB book. I'd always regarded that as the authoritative and definitive version...
Hope that helps settle it.
Cheers!
MM

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: Mysha
Date: 26 Oct 14 - 02:23 PM

Hi,

> By the way, wasn't there a bit about there never being enough ale
> unless it were raining ale?


Searching the net has found me this one, in various places:

When drinking good ale it is best by the Tun
But never enough can be had in just one
So pray all you drinkers who often run dry
GOD willing our ale it will fall from the sky

Bye

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: GUEST,Sian
Date: 29 Sep 21 - 07:59 AM

Anyone know for sure who wrote the extra verse?

The Kilderkin's Next and although rather small
At least it is better than nothing at all
Its eighteen full gallons will just about do
Provided, of course, there's another for you.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: r.padgett
Date: 30 Sep 21 - 03:43 AM

A "pull" no doubt will be a long sup

The Sheffield singers sing only three verses, no doubt due to their source singers, probably Witches of Elswick

How many verses you sing is up to you

"The poor firkin barrel" was likely the original, mention of ebay PSB price as made t'other day

Ray

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: MoorleyMan
Date: 30 Sep 21 - 07:38 PM

I had it on good authority when I enquired once, that the Kilderkin verse given above was written by Ron Shuttleworth.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: Gurney
Date: 30 Sep 21 - 09:21 PM

I had this nearly 50 years ago from The Tankards at Falmouth. I asked them to sing it, and they made me get up and and do the chorus with them. Happy days.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: r.padgett
Date: 01 Oct 21 - 02:34 AM

I wouldn't argue with that statement Moorley Man

Ray

Keith wrote the songs in early 60s and gave it to Derek and Dorothy Elliott who sang with great harmony

Keith was said initially to introduce it as Traditional

Arguments it seem broke out as to its origins ~ great stuff

A down to earth lad was "our Keith"

Ray

Subject: RE: Tune ADD: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: GUEST,Sian
Date: 01 Oct 21 - 05:32 PM

Hi MoorleyMan Thanks for that! I love this group. My singing group (Rattlebag) have added that verse to our rendition and we wanted to know who to credit it to!

Subject: RE: Tune ADD: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: Sian H
Date: 14 Oct 22 - 07:17 AM

Hi Does anyone know if Ron Shuttleworth is around? (As Rattlebag sing his verse too)

Subject: RE: Tune ADD: Bring Us a Barrel (Keith Marsden)
From: r.padgett
Date: 16 Oct 22 - 03:30 AM

Ron would be quite elderly now if he has not passed on! His son is Jack Shuttleworth who plays harp among other things

Ron and his missus sang at many UK folk festival sing arounds in the past and checking his biography he started life in the Peak District in Derbyshire the part easily accessible via Sheffield ~ he has his own web information regarding social dance and traditional dance and he was a prolific writer of songs and verses and a performer ~ a cheeky chappy ~ he also played concertina! Oh he went to live in the Midlands and was well known there

Ray