Origins: My Lagan Love

Subject: Origins: My Lagan Love
From: GUEST,Pat
Date: 08 Nov 03 - 05:22 AM

Does anyone know the history behind this song? All I know is that the Lagan River runs through Belfast. I'd be grateful for any input. Thanks.

Subject: RE: Origins: My Lagan Love
From: masato sakurai
Date: 08 Nov 03 - 05:47 AM

Discussed at some threads, such as LAGAN LOVE QUERY.

Subject: RE: Origins: My Lagan Love
From: belfast
Date: 08 Nov 03 - 09:00 AM

Get yourself a copy of Big Tim's book. There's a chapter on this song. You'll find a thread discussing the book here: One Green Hill by John McLaughlin .

Subject: RE: Origins: My Lagan Love
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 09 Nov 03 - 07:43 AM

G'day Pat, Masato & belfast,

Until I read (then read up on) the Irish song of this name, I was severely misled by the fact that there is an Australian poem which has the same title, but uses "lagan" in it's English sense ... opposite to "flotsam" ... meaning wreckage and cargo that sinks when a ship is wrecked.

In that sense the poem deals with old loves as "lagan".

(just a passing insight .. ?)

Bob

Subject: RE: Origins: My Lagan Love
From: Big Tim
Date: 09 Nov 03 - 10:28 AM

G'day Bob,

I think you're barking up the wrong gum tree!

The lyricist Joseph Campbell was aged only 23 when he wrote the song: he came from a conservative, Catholic middle class family, was probably sexually inexperienced, had had some psychological problems in his youth, was a late starter with women, and probably never had any "lost loves" (except maybe secret or imaginary ones). How such a virginal young man could write such passionate lyrics is I think testament to the strength of his romantic nature and the power of his poetic imagination.

"Lagan" is an Irish word meaning "low-lying".

Subject: RE: Origins: My Lagan Love
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 09 Nov 03 - 09:35 PM

G'day Big Tim,

Not - this gum tree has its unrelated Lagan Love poem ... which I passed in an Australian anthology years back. I can't yet remember who was the poet, but I'm sure he was aware of the Irish poem ... and indulging in a bit of gentle parody by writing using the sense that "lagan" has in English: Goods or wreckage lying on the bed of the sea ...", which comes from a Norman word meaning "to lie/lay", probably of Scandinavian origin (and closely related to the German).

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Origins: My Lagan Love
From: GUEST,Pat
Date: 10 Nov 03 - 06:41 AM

Thanks for the input everybody, Hope I didn't cause too many disagreements!!

Subject: RE: Origins: My Lagan Love
From: Big Tim
Date: 11 Nov 03 - 04:18 AM

G'day Bob,

If you can trace that Oz poem, I, for one, would like to see it.

I never knew that "lagan" was also used in English, but you're right. Webster's Dictionary says that the origin is uncertain: thought to be of either Middle French or Middle English origin.

Subject: RE: Origins: My Lagan Love
From: michaelr
Date: 11 Nov 03 - 07:24 PM

Bob -- could that be whence we get the word "laggard"?

Subject: RE: Origins: My Lagan Love
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Nov 03 - 07:36 PM

Michaelr: 'Laggard' comes from 'Lag' meaning behind, hindmost, late, or tardy. Which means that the common expression 'to lag behind' is tautologous.

Interesting to see 'Lagan' as an opposite to 'Flotsam' as the usual opposite is 'Jetsam'.
Flotsam is floating goods, and Lagan is sunken goods, but the common usage has Flotsam as floating goods as a result of a shipwreck or similar, whilst Jetsam is deliberately jettisoned cargo

Nigel

Subject: RE: Origins: My Lagan Love
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 11 Nov 03 - 09:41 PM

G'day,

michaelr: As Nigel says, "laggard" is from lag ... and "lag", in English apparently comes from the British children's dialect "counting" terms: fog, seg & lag - meaning 1st, 2nd & 3rd (...!).

Nigel: I guess that "lagan" is a bit more definite about what happened after the cargo was "jetsam" (ultimately a corruption of Latin for thrown [overboard]). Lagan is really opposite to flotsam, while jetsam is the previous step ... but how many sailors speak Latin ... or Norman French ... or Viking Norse?

Big Tim: I'll see if I can find the book ... but it was one of my wife's - and many years back ... and Patricia is not one for holding onto old books!

Regards,

Bob Bolton