BS: How do you Convince a Moron...

Subject: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Mickey191
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 07:30 PM

Okay Catters,You have one or two minutes only. How do you convince A Bush Baby Moron that he's wrong to vote for his reelection? Just one or two salient points please.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 07:34 PM

How about convincing a moron that it doesn't matter a good godamn what idiot 'runs' the country...

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 07:43 PM

If you/we can come up with salient points, Mickey, I hope to learn them! I'm going south to visit my birth family soon, and I don't relish not being understood or just biting my tongue.

(I'm not answering Clinton Hammond because he knows he is wrong.)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 07:48 PM

Point out what freedoms have been lost, and that the impetus seems to just be beginning. Ask him/her what benefits were received from the Bush tax cuts. Ask how many soldiers have died, and if s/he doesn't know, have the figures. Ask why his/her grandchildren will have to pay for an unjustified war. Make a list of the proven Bush lies.

Make a written list before you go, so you don't get sidetracked in conversation.

(pant, pant!)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 07:56 PM

I disagree Ebbie ...Clinton is perfectly correct..All this "bad mouthing " of Bush is purely a sideshow ...You Americans should take a really good look at the people who run your country ...Your too trusting by half...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Amos
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 07:58 PM

Make a list of falsehoods -- there are a couple of web sites on Bushisms and Bush lies.

Make a list of erosions such as those in Patriot Act 1 and 2.

Analyze the difference between the Constitutional contract for this society and Bush's actions, including the use of religious opinions as a basis of governmental influence.

If you have time, work up a list of the degrees in which state's rights have been sanded away by the current administration, particularly the 2000 election.


A

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 08:10 PM

Clinton Hammond said: How about convincing a moron that it doesn't matter a good godamn what idiot 'runs' the country...

Akenetan agrees and says: All this "bad mouthing " of Bush is purely a sideshow ...You Americans should take a really good look at the people who run your country ...Your too trusting by half...

Discuss and clarify, please?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 08:20 PM

Ask him this question, "Name one thing the republican paRTy ever did for the benefit of the common working man/woman." If he asks what then Democrats ever did, tell him this.
1 Social security under FDR. the repubs fought it tooth and nail.
2 Minimum wage
3 women's right to vote (Woodrow Wilson)
4 the right to collective bargaining
5 Medicare
6 Overtime
7 Safer working conditions (John L. Lewis)
To name a few. of course, if the moron is rich, he will say every one of these things is bad for business.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 08:25 PM

The attacks of 09/11/01 were an assault upon all the people of the World. They presented Bush with an opportunity to reach out to the entire world and work together with other leaders to not just try to eliminate terrorism, but to solve the problems to which terrorism is a response. Instead, he took the attitude that the attack was strictly an attack against the US and that the US is justified in doing whatever it wants to do as long as "fighting terrorism" is the goal. As a result, worldwide opinion of the US is at the lowest point it has ever been.

We live in a truly global society and George W. Bush is simply not a person who thinks in global terms. He ignores the opinions of other world leaders and citizens and does whatever he wants. His arrogant actions will turn around and bite him on the ass sooner or later. Unfortunately, when the bite comes he'll be safe inside a bunker under a mountain somewhere while you and I bleed.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 08:34 PM

Well Ebbie ..Its getting late and Im getting tired ,but I find it naive in the extreme to trivialise the actions of the American Government,by blaming them exclusively on George Bush.Its clear that he is simply a mouthpiece for "business interests".
To people on the left in Britain the American political system seems very corrupt,and Im afraid you respect your politicians far too much.
In Britain a politician is last person we think trustworthy...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: jimmyt
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 08:53 PM

This sounds a little like how do you convince a moron about being a Lutheran, or Gay or A Jew or any other thing.   It seems to me that it is always best to let people do what they want, think what they want and be what they want. I try to respect all people regardless of their politics, race, religion or sexual preferences. What about this is difficult for people who try to be called "liberals?" I will readily agree that there are good points about your politics, and there are definately good things that you as a party have brought to the table. Can you or will you do likewise?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Padre
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 09:10 PM

Not by ad hominem attacks - most people don't cotton to being insulted. That's why the only Democratic candidate that I can support is Joe Lieberman.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: jimmyt
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 09:12 PM

amen, padre I can respect that, o m,ay not totally agree but I think he is a fine man

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: jimmyt
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 09:13 PM

should be I May... too much Wine At least I am a liberal drinker!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Mickey191
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 09:57 PM

I thought Lieberman was a good man--however, he did not appear for the most important vote on Medicare today. Bad Move.

Akenaton,Last politician I really respected was Truman. The last honest president may have been Carter-but he was inept. Seems today "honest Politician" is an oxymoron.

jimmyt--who among us would try to convince a Jew, Lutheran, or a gay to switch? No one I know. Your analogy is bad. Apples & oranges.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: jimmyt
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 10:12 PM

Mickey, point is, that regardless of how brilliant you feel your wording is, it is an inflammatory question. Who would be receptive to anyone who calls their opinions, beliefs or politics moronic. Liberal? seems more like narrow minded to me. Maybe not apples /oranges, but sour grapes to me

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 10:55 PM

I wish to defend Jimmy Carter to the ... well, not to the death, but perhaps to the minor injury? Carter wasn't inept -- he lacked the street smarts to play dirty in DC, and they ate him alive. He was, if anything, too nice, too honest, too sincere. On the other hand, he came out of his presidency into a position that suits him perfectly, at which he is extremely good, and to which he adds class.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 11:11 PM

Carter did at least two things for which I respect and admire him as a President.

1. He visited Three Mile Island after the disaster there. At the time there were lots of people who questioned just what the hell he could there -- a politician? Then it was pointed out to them that the man did have a degree in nuclear engineering.

2. (the big one) Following the debacle of the attempted rescue of the hostages in Iraq, Carter came on television and, as Commander In Chief and as a good ex-military officer, accepted the blame. He stated that he authorized the raid and that he took full responsibility for its failure.

Contrast number 2 to dear Ronnie Reagan, who, after the truck bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon, effectively said, "We'll find out who dropped the ball and heads will roll!"

Sorry folks. I think Carter was the better leader.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 11:34 PM

You can't!!!!

Just wait... time will do it for you............

Welcome to America: The World's Latest Third World Country......

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Mickey191
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 11:34 PM

My apologies to J. Carter & thanks to pdc & Rapaire
for pointing out my inept judgement. Haste makes waste.

jimmyt-I never think my wordage is brilliant. Case in point, I've just had to apologize for my verbiage.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Cluin
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 11:36 PM

Amen, Rapaire!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: SueB
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 12:14 AM

How do you keep a moron in suspense?

I'll tell you tomorrow....

No, seriously, all your questions and lists will accomplish nothing, except maybe to make your 'opponent' cling more tenaciously to his/her position.

The best you can hope to do is to find some thing, or things, no matter how small, that you can agree on, without having to necessarily agree on the cause or solution. Then you at least have a starting point for an actual discussion.

Happy Holidays.

PS I don't think Jimmy Carter was inept. He fought the good fight.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 12:24 AM

Quite aside from Bush, there are numerous ways of convincing a moron of just about anything you could care to name...

1. wave a whole bunch of money in front of said moron

2. make him think it (whatever "it" is) will improve his sex life

3. tell him it's free

4. tell him it's a "limited time, once-in-a-lifetime" opportunity

5. tell him "everybody else does it" or "has one" or...

6. use threats and/or brute force on the moron (armies have used this method on both morons and smart people since time immemorial)

7. blackmail the moron

8. bribe the moron (see section 1. above)

9. flatter the moron

10. convince the moron it's his idea

11. offer the moron a "tax cut" (ha! ha!)

12. play on the moron's fears and hatreds, and promise to "get tough" with serial murderers, rapists, criminals, and welfare cheats

13. tell the moron that the other guys are "liberals" (this only really works in the USA, however)

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Cluin
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 12:32 AM

I'm a moron. Where do I sign to get my money?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 12:35 AM

Well I don't know about convincing "morons" about anything. Shouldn't that be "Perceptually Challenged" or some other newspeak buzz word?

I agree with "Guest" The republicans are not my friends, not the friends of the common man, no way!

This Medicare prescription drug junk is a good point.

Right now I pay $37.50 a month for my medicine. I understand that I will be charged $35 a month additional to my Medicare fee of $58 a month. I will then be able to get my medicine for only $30 a month. That's $65 a month I'll be paying for medicine I am currently paying $37.50 for! I hope the prescription drug plan is optional but I have a sinking feeling that it isn't.

Thanks boys, I really needed THAT sharp stick in the eye!

CB

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 12:37 AM

Meanwhile the economy is getting better.......................

I'm not pro Bush. Nor am I a Republican, a liberal. I am a moderate American with an open mind. But I don't claim to have all of the answers either. Nor do I relate to calling people with different politics morons just to start conversations.

To the ones who don't live in this country who bad mouth it, please kiss my ass on the corner State & Madison. I wouldn't trade it here for anything. Especially for a country with women with hairy armpits. I'm glad that I am raising my children here.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 12:54 AM

I'm not talking about Republicans here, Martin, I'm talking about morons in general... :-) I realize some of the other posters are talking about Republicans, though.

By the way, I was in Atlanta, Georgia, last weekend and absolutely loved the place, and all the wonderful, friendly people I met there. I can well understand you're glad to be raising your kids in the USA, given that recent experience.

I think your economy is getting better mainly because the US dollar has dropped in value 15% in the last few months, which has enormously improved your balance of trade. Who or what made that happen, I do not know, but it's very beneficial for Americans, cos now the whole world wants to buy more of your stuff.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 12:58 AM

Well, I hope some of your children have hairy armpits - but only your daughters.

You have to distinguish between "bad mouthing" and "criticizing." And the country you love so well permits free speech, remember?

The people who criticize their country love it in a healthy manner, and recognizing it's not perfect, seek to correct what is wrong. People who yell "love it or leave it," and things of that ilk, never have to actually think, which is often a great relief to them.

I believe it was G. K. Chesterton who said, "My country right or wrong is like my mother drunk or sober."

A sobering thought, if you can cope with it.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: LadyJean
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 01:08 AM

Michael Moore, in his latest opus, "Dude Where's My Country?" Offers some advice on how to talk to your right wing brother in law. I think it would also work for morons.
I really don't think much of myself for saying this, but Howard Dean DOES have a number of supporters from the right. If your moron can read, you might send him to Dean's web site. The magic phrase, "Dean balanced the budget in the state of Vermont while cutting taxes twice," Works well on conservatives.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 01:45 AM

Q. How do you Convince a Moron...

A. Never try to trach a pig to sing. It just makes a terrible noise, upsets the teacher, and annoys the pig.

:-)

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: michaelr
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 02:07 AM

Martin Gibson -- that comment about women with hairy armpits is offensive as well as stupid. Nowhere else but in the US are women brainwashed to the point that they believe body hair is unacceptable. Or that they need silicone tits and botox lips to be lovable, or weigh under 100 pounds, for that matter. If you have a daughter, you might give some long thought to what the American media are doing to her self-image, dad.

I live in this country, and I think it's moronic to respond to someone who's critical of its state of affairs "if you don't like it, why don't you go live in Russia". Was it Jefferson or Tom Paine who said, "There may come times when a patriot must be ready to defend his country from his government"?

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Cluin
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 02:16 AM

This country???

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: michaelr
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 02:32 AM

How many do you have?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: kendall
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 06:50 AM

Another thing I admire about Carter; after leaving the cellpool (DC) he went to work building houses for the needy while Reagan cut brush on his ranch and made speeches at a million dollars a pop.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 12:16 PM

This business of underarm hair reminds me of a conversation I had with a brother once. He said, You have to admit that the shape of a woman's leg is much prettier when she's wearing high heels. And after a bit of thought, I said, Then maybe we should change our ideas of beauty?

The old Chinese idea of a woman's foot being more beautiful when it was tiny, even though its size was achieved by folding and deforming it to the extent that the 'upper crust' woman was not physically able to walk comes to mind.

As a product of my time I too think a woman's underarm is prettier without hair but I'm willing to admit that maybe my standards should change.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: jimmyt
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 12:36 PM

Little Hawk. I am only 100 miles from Atlanta, and if I had known you were there, I would have been delighted to drive down and buy you a glass of your favorite, I think it is Reisling? Next time,buddy!

Rapiare I also was a big Jimmy Carter fan, couldn't wait for his presidency, but was very disappointed by his lack of effect, and I too think it is because he was such a clean, honest decent man. He has been an excellent ExPresident, and I believe one of the few politicians I would truly call a statesman. There, I said something nice about a Liberal! See how easy it is?

I feel like Martin Gibson has some strong points about this country, although I am not gonna encourage my wife to grow armpit hair out and braid it.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Amos
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 12:42 PM

Oh, drop the armpit hair stuff, fer cry-ii! IOs it in some way an index of the nation? A primary indicator of the culture's well-being? A datum of any goddamn importance at all?

A

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 01:17 PM

Amos, sexism is still important even if it's no longer fashionable to criticize it. On the other forum I belong to, I've just had an enormous fight with a guy who casually refers to women as "bitches," as in "one of the bitches I work with..." etc.

Unless the previous poster was objecting to men with hairy armpits, as well as women, he was being crude.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Amos
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 01:37 PM

Oh, PDC, I wasn't on about the sexist aspect. I think my armpits are probably hairier than yours, at a guess, but I don't care particularly. As for 'bitches' it is highly unfortunate that it is sometimes the only general term for females that people learn to use in somer neighborhoods. I would suggest replying in kind by referring ot the gentleman in question as a penis.

A

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 01:40 PM

Darn! I should've let you know in advance, Jimmy. I'll do so next time (gotta go back to Atlanta).

The hairy armpit thing? Well, once I went to a Buffy Sainte-Marie concert in the summer, and I noticed that she had hairy armpits. Yowsa! Very sexy! (of course, it was Buffy...although not in "the buff")

I have no objection to hairy armpits on certain people.

Now look, Amos, don't get fractious! If you do, I will go on and on about my unrequited lust for Hillary Clinton. (heh! heh!)

I like Jimmy Carter too. He's a fine man.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: michaelr
Date: 27 Nov 03 - 01:16 AM

Hi Amos -- you've got a daughter, haven't you? Surely you get my point about the false beauty ideal the media hold up to young girls in this country -- which contributes to a litany of physical and emotional disorders, both in those girls who think to conform to the false ideal, and those who don't.

If you're familiar with the concept, it's a toxic mimic of true beauty, and should be debunked by any responsible parent.

As to body hair, I have lots, and my wife has never demanded that I remove any of it. Instead, she accepts me as I am. Why shouldn't men do the same?

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Nov 03 - 01:27 AM

Then there are female guinea pigs...they look dreadful without their body hair. Trust me on this.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 03 - 03:45 AM

Women get to vote?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 27 Nov 03 - 07:32 PM

A positive post coming up, so sit down and get comfy.

I have a daughter who is 25, weighs over 200 pounds, has some skin problems which will probably clear up, and has the misfortune to be losing her hair, which is a pity, as it is thick, dark red hair.

She has to beat men off with a stick. Funny, bright, perceptive, witty to the point of making me laugh till I cry. A ton of friends, a busy social life, enjoys life and loves who she is.

As you can well imagine, the men she attracts are all first class guys: I would have any of them as a son-in-law, and I believe she is getting a ring for Christmas.

I'm fairly certain that when I was 25 (I'm 62 now), that couldn't have happened. There has been a terrific improvement in the relationship between the sexes, and most of the credit goes to men for changing with the times.

Good on ya, guys.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: *daylia*
Date: 27 Nov 03 - 08:40 PM

Well, how about convincing said morons that every "good man" has simply mastered a few well-worn .... less-ons?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: kendall
Date: 27 Nov 03 - 09:04 PM

I go for the high IQ and a good sense of humor everytime.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 28 Nov 03 - 12:53 PM

Michael

If you were offended about my hairy armpit comment, you made my day! To the guy who finds hairy armpits sexy on Buffy, that's OK, some might find her shorts sexy after she had a burrito.

No one said hariy armpits are an index of a nation. They might be an index of a culture, as in clean. If you want your wife to be a hairball, I don't really care. It's not me who hangs out with her.

I love the sleek, American look. No, I do not have daughters. The guys I know who do, are usually freaked out when they see their daughters walking around in hip hugger jeans with their puppick(sic) hanging out.

Yep, I'm glad I live in a country where I can speak my mind.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 05:38 AM

Wanker!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 09:40 AM

There are any number of countries where one can speak his mind, Martin...those where one cannot are, I think, in a minority.

The comment about the burrito, I don't quite get. Maybe that's a good thing. :-)

As for clean, I think Cubans are about the cleanest living and dressing people I've ever seen...but I can't remember whether or not their women shave their armpits. They told me that the one thing that could definitely bring down Castro's government by popular revolt is: if soap ever gets rationed or becomes unavailable!

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 10:29 AM

That could very well be about Cubans. I don't know.

I won't explain the burrito remark.

The unidentified guest who simply posted "wanker" that ridiculously British term I believe for "jagoff" was obviously offended. He must not be much of a folksinger.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,John
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 12:05 PM

Kerryman got married, brill performance all night (both virgins). Next morning she stretched her arms. He looked in awe and said "Oh Jesus, two more!"

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 02:35 PM

Martin Gibson-
So, only people who agree uncritically with your stupid bigoted views can be genuine folksingers? Gee, thanks for clearing that up.
Wanker!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Nov 03 - 03:18 PM

Looks like you and GUEST have got a real solid relationship going here, Martin... :-)

I was puzzled by the term "wanker" when I first heard it, but I got used to it after a while. The British have a lot of neat "insult" words and phrases all their own. Ever seen "Fawlty Towers"?

The Cubans make a big thing of out dressing in nothing but the cleanest, freshest clothes possible, the moment work is over...the cleanest shoes I've ever seen...and then they go out for the evening and have a whale of a good time. They look askance at us North Americans in our ratty old sneakers and torn jeans, and wonder what the heck is wrong with us for wearing stuff like that. Man, I just loved it down there in Cardenas.

Trinidad's nice too, but is full of crime...so you need to be a bit careful there, specially after dark.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: kendall
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 07:44 AM

Jamaica is no paradise either.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Sam L
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 10:42 AM

One approach might be to start with common interests, and express simply what you find falling short of the mark--try to go easy and point by point, instead of letting the whole bulk of exasperation come flying out in an expletive. It's hard. Not that it will often work.

It's not unusual that someone might like women to look like models on magazines, but it's pretty funny to put it over as if it were a sharp and cutting insight. Then to congratulate oneself for Speaking my mind--as if it were a point of intellectual pride to be able to say Polly want a cracker. Very funny.

   Women don't have to sign an allegiance to one grooming practice or another. Both looks work well enough for me--I wouldn't trade the classic hippy-girl style for 20 years of Playboy bunnies. It does say something interesting about a culture, I think, that women have tossed aside bigger constraints than this in short order. Without drawing on a beard, there's nothing left for women to wear to signify cross-dressing. They can wear anything. Female is like Gravity--it propagates through everything and nothing. But I understand why things like this can be important to guys--guy I worked with was always mistaking long-haired guys for "babes" when driving through the park. He couldn't percieve the subtler gender cues. He needed help--flags, signs, markers, directions.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 11:48 AM

Guest

You're a coward. And probably a lousy fo9lksinger.

Get a job.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 11:50 AM

Guest Martin Gibson:
I may be missing something here, but you end your post with "Yep, I'm glad I live in a country where I can speak my mind. and then object when the very next poster speaks his/her mind by calling you a "Wanker"

Do you seriously defend your right to speak your mind, but reserve that right to yourself?

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 11:52 AM

Sorry for the 9

Yeah, I've seen Fawlty Towers. Boring!

Do you think wankers practice their art over pictures of women with hairy armpits?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Mickey191
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 12:27 PM

The cloak of anonimnity seems to evoke such wrangling. Did this actually start over hairy armpits? I propose that the wanker word be banned henceforth, also the "Get a life " phrase.

Can't we all just get along?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: jimmyt
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 01:01 PM

actually , Mickey, I think you set the tone with the thread title, inferring that a person with different beliefs than you have is a moron.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Mickey191
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 01:42 PM

But they are!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 02:12 PM

LOL, Mickey. However, there is a point to be made here. 'Moron' doesn't say anything definitive. Ignorant, misguided, misinformed, lacking in judgment, willfully blind, out of touch, infantile and blinkered, do.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 03:53 PM

Yes, Martin! I'm sure some wankers practice over such pictures. Just consider this: for hundreds of thousands of years there were women with hairy armpits everywhere and no one thought anything about it. Then some smart cookie invented shaving equipment, deoderants, depilatory equipment and stuff like that, and proceeded to brainwash everyone to buy the stuff with advertising.

You sir, are a victim of a cunning marketing plan! :-)

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 04:46 PM

Yeah right! Look here...no one on this flippin thread has convinced me of anything yet. Try offerin me free beers and smokes. I can be found at the Tim Hortons in Blind River eh?

- BDiBR

p.s. I will take advances from girls eh? No9 refunds!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Peg
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 05:59 PM

well, I suppose it's interesting that this thread devolved into a discussion of hairy armpits.

Why is it okay for men to have them but not women?

I consider myself very feminine. I shave my legs but not my underarms. Personal preferemce. It is certainly looked down on by many American men but also I have met a great many who find it very sexy.
As far as I know, the majority of European women do not shave their armpits either.
Different strokes for different folks. I think women who shave too much of their body hair off are pretty gross to look at, personally...

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 07:37 PM

". . . but also I have met a great many who find it very sexy."

Expand on that a bit why not?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Bobert
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 08:56 PM

Excuse me, but....

.... ahhh, like can I bust up the hairy armpits thing to try to bring the thread back into at least the same county from which it started?

Sorry, but may an armpit thread is in order...

Forget the morons and work on those folks with any sembelence of a brain... the morons will either not vote or vote for Bush... That is a given... Forget 'em....

Go talk to your neighbors...

If you find that they are morons, go to the next house...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Amos
Date: 30 Nov 03 - 09:57 PM

Toxic mimicry is a fine phrase for it, in sooth, Michael. It is corrosive to soul, heart and mind.

A

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Sam L
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 08:21 AM

I don't think it sounds like you're as interested in changing anyone's mind as in being right where they are wrong. This is a problem with the party. Remember Gore's sighs? He fell into the trap of trying to prove he was the better candidate--you can't prove the self-evident, you wind up casting doubt. Okay, he won anyway, but not by enough. Why not focus on the positives of any other candidate? It's less to remember than Bush's negatives.

   Expand on sexy, Guest? Charm--explain. You get it or you don't. I don't prefer--well actually as a hairy guy I tend to like the smooth swimmer's look for guys. Smooth, sleek, looks like a car. It's nothing to explain. On the other hand a sexy female attribute looks kind of like an unmade bed. Different looks. Never underestimate the power of cuteness.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: kendall
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 08:32 AM

I used to think it was not fair that some people had more hair under their arms than I have on my head.
Now, if a woman judges me by the presence or the absence of a few inches of dead protein sticking out of the top of my head, well, I don't bother with such shallow women. (And they don't bother with me, so it works out good)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Peg
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 10:57 AM

back to the original topic...

Perhaps one reason people vote the way they do, or hold the views they do about candidates, is that the vast majority of Americnas get their information from the television. Ever since a sweaty Nixon in a grey suit squared off against a robust Kennedy in a black suit, this has been how we judged our candidates.
So a candidate who does not radiate the "right" kind of charm, charisma, authority, etc. is written off from the start. One ill-timed facial expression or malaproprism has doomed a presidential campaign in the past, sad but true.

It's also true that Americans do not seem to tolerate ethic-sounding names in white guys (let's face it, most presidential candidadtes are white) and they are also picky about looks, including clothing choices. I remember Paul Simon was not taken seriously because he wore bow ties. Paul Tsongas had a problem because no one could pronounce his name. Dukakis was short and had a "foreign" name...etc. etc. It's silly. But it's how a LOT of people decide who they're going to vote for.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 11:30 AM

Yep. TV has had a disastrous effect on people's attention span and comprehension of information, to say nothing of their judgement of a candidate's worth as a human being.

Now would Arnold Schwarzenneger have been elected if he was 5 foot 2 inches tall, chubby, and oriental or Hispanic? Not a chance. He could be brilliant, capable, and the best candidate possible, but he still would not get elected under those circumstances, providing the opposition could come up with any candidate (no matter how stupid or incompetent) who was white, 6 feet tall, and looked like Ted Danson.

The System likes to have a foolish, easily manipulated, ill-informed electorate. It makes them easier to divide and conquer. TV is the System's number one instrument of control.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Bobert
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 01:31 PM

Just a take off on what Peg and Little Hawk have mentioned about the media... Thinking back to the debates between Bush and Gore, it was the media who was quick to jump in with their observations of just who had won... I watched them all from a Green Party perspective and would be hard pressed to see Bush as a winer of any of them yet the talking media heads were quick to point out Gore "sighs" but totally ignored Bush's rather impish "smirks"... So they declare Bush the winner and immediately afterwards have public reactions... Well, those reactions were not candid since those folks in the audience were either highly partisan for one candidate of the other or, if not, certainly influenced by the talking heads spin...

I also don't think it should be lost that big media has been uniformly behind efforts to drop the FCC media ownership regulations and have know before the 2000 election that Bush was the kind of guy that, if media could help, would in tern return the *favor*. And he has. It has taken a massive public outcry to get Congress to act to reverse Micheal Powell's decision... But that's just for now. The FCC regs can still be attached to the "chicken-crap" omnibus appropriations bill and slide thru anyway....

BTW, IMO, the Omnibus bill is no way to run a government... It is just a trick played on the minority party and a rip off of billions of tax payers dollars...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 02:48 PM

but getting back to the hair: Fred, I in fact think armpit hair is just fine on the feminine, as well. But Peg says the men find her armpit hair sexy, and I start to get silly visuals when pondering how they communicated this subjective feeling to her for her knowledge.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 04:44 PM

Fred Miller, you say: "It does say something interesting about a culture, I think, that women have tossed aside bigger constraints than this in short order."

I agree. However, cultural norms resist common sense. For instance, for what reason do men wear ties?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 05:51 PM

Dear Guest...whaddya mean "subjective"?...it works this way: They yell, "Omigod! Lookit them beautiful pits!" and start to hyperventilate and drool and follow her around like little puppy dogs. It's really just blatantly obvious how they feel, and it proves that armpit hair is no liability for women whatsoever.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Amos
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 06:06 PM

Men wear ties? More and more they do not. When they do it is to establish a signal of agreement about reality.


A

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Mickey191
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 06:22 PM

LH, Thanks for the tip, I've just tossed my Bic. When do I ditch the Arrid? Some of you people have given me a whole new insight into feminine hygiene. What say you about ladies with a wee mustache? (NOT I!)


There is a commercial currently running in NY, which is for some magic formula to remove hair. Sitting in a chair is a faceless woman. If she had one more hair, she could swing in a tree. I have to say the commercial is repulsive, because this lady hasn't shaved in 10 years. I'd love to see the help wanted ad she answered to get that job: Are your nights lonely, can you walk thru snow drifts & still feel warm, Can you perm your hairy legs ? Well, have we've got a job for you!

It is a societal thing, some cultures forbid women to bathe during their menses or when they're pregnant.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Peg
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 06:57 PM

Little hawk: yup. Pretty much just like that.

Mickey: I know you are joking, but just to address this question: since when does grooming equate with hygiene? Shaving has to do with grooming. Washing has to do with hygiene. The fact that a woman does not shave her underarms or legs does not mean she does not wash regularly, nor are they in any way connected, any more than a man who has a beard should be thought to be unlikely to bathe regularly.

Hairy does not equal dirty.

It IS true that the more hair present, the more likely it is to trap bacteria, so one may have to make an effort to be extra clean. Ditching the Arrid may not be a good idea. But not using anti-perspirants (as opposed to deodorants) might be a good idea; the former block pores unnaturally and prevent sweating; the latter help kill bacteria that cause odor. Sweat itself is clean and odorless.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: jimmyt
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 07:26 PM

This may be a record for the largest Thread Drift I have encountered. I am with you, though, Peg Hygiene has absolutely nothing to do with the subject. I once knew a young lady from Finland who had underamr hair and I have to admit it was not a turn off at all!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 07:48 PM

"to establish a signal of agreement about reality. " Boy, Amos, you've lost me on that one.

As for ties, visit any office.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Amos
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 08:08 PM

It a signal, Eb, between guys, that they are signing up for certain ways of conduct and beliefs and such. "See? I'm on board! I'm wearing a tie! I'll choke the Ego for the sake of Getting Along!" or something like that...

Engineers by and large don't wear 'em...they just get results.

A

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Mickey191
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 08:45 PM

Thanks Peg for the correction-you are absolutely right. Where's the principal's office? I assume you're sending me there.

Now I'll confess-if I see a lady with hairy armpits, I draw a cerain conclusion about her.* Wrong or right, I think she's lazy. My bet would be if you asked women over the age of 50, most would draw the same conclusion. Now you can all jump on my case.

*Does not apply to French ladys.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 09:23 PM

But, Peg

I don't know know how anyone can find a woman sexy with bits of crystalized deodorant residue stuck in the hair in her armpits.

Mickey191, I agree completely with you. Sometimes it just offends some to be a good old red blooded American male. What a pleasure it is to not have to worry about toilet seats everytime you drink a couple of beers.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 09:42 PM

f I see a lady with hairy armpits, I draw a cerain conclusion about her.* Wrong or right, I think she's lazy. Mickey, that's not my conclusion at all (I suppose one could say that about bearded men, though, at least those who let it all spritz out every which direction), it seems to me that the "lady" ("lady?" What's wrong with 'woman'?) is almost invariably of a certain age. Count back to the 60s and you'll probably discover that they were involved in that movement. And there is no harm in that; I think it is interesting. Those heady days made history.

"It a signal, Eb, between guys, that they are signing up for certain ways of conduct and beliefs and such. "See? I'm on board! I'm wearing a tie! I'll choke the Ego for the sake of Getting Along!" or something like that..." Ah, but Amos, that's not really an explanation at all. Let me put it to you again: Why do men wear ties? To keep gravy off their shirts? To bring color to their faces? For the sheer comfort of them? To please their womenfolk? If the latter is the answer, then there is a direct correlation between tie wearing and underarm shaving...

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Amos
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 09:56 PM

Well, what I am saying is they wear them to signal to other men and women that they are willing to behave. I don't think it has any real practical use, like guarding shirts from soup. There's a whole history to the cravat which I am ignorant of, but these days it is just a fraternity flag in my opinion.

A

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Mickey191
Date: 01 Dec 03 - 11:59 PM

Ebbie, To a degree, we are all products of the mores of our formative years, and I was taught to use the word lady. (Whether she qualifies or not) Also, I simply like it better then woman. Are we getting a bit picky here??

Martin, I had the very same thought about the residue of cerain deodorants. I just Know someone is going to post how they love the sparkle of that residue in the moonlight. Like twinkling stars - especially if said female has that real thick black hair. The contrast is quite breathtaking. (Ha - I made a funny)

No one answered my moustache question.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 12:03 AM

Buffy Sainte-Marie is NOT lazy! Case closed. There may have been the odd case of a woman who didn't shave because she was lazy, but most lazy women are still enough in the grip of societally sanctioned fear tactics that their laziness falls instantly by the wayside when it comes to this particular practice. Ditto for shaving legs.

I believe, though, that it used to be considered sexy among blacks for black women to have hair on their legs. Whether that is still so, I don't know.

Now ties...ties have got to be among the stupidest, most useless, and most uncomfortable devices ever foisted on the male gender. GAAAAHHH! I wear a tie about once every 15 years or so, for those very rare occasions (like when I was the 2nd-best man at a friend's wedding awhile back).

One nice thing about them, though. They can provide a spot of colour and artistic flourish in an otherwise pretty drab uniform. Still, it ain't worth the hassle, really.

North American Indians knew how to dress. Beautifully and practically at the same time.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 12:24 AM

Whether she qualifies or not Ah, Mickey, what does it take to qualify? Talk about picky!

I don't feel strongly about it, I just think that 'woman' is a good unpretentious designation. I suspect that we picked up 'lady' from "our betters" in times past, whether in England or in highfalutin' society here. Well, I prefer to think that we don't need no stinkin' lady.

Mind you, it is my contention that rather than 'man', the generic should be 'woman'. After all, 'man' is not only implied in the term but is inside. ;)

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Sam L
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 12:27 AM

Ebbie, I think I agree with Amos. There's no point to wearing a tie except to say Oh all right I'll wear the damn tie if I'm supposed to. The pointlessness makes the point that one is just doing what one is supposed to in a given situation.

Guest, oh, um.

Armpit hair, neither sexy nor unsexy, maybe signaling that one is lazy, maybe that they have better things to do. There was a time if I saw an unshaven woman I wouldn't assume but would suppose she might be a modern dancer--a species of female I much recommend to any red-blooded male. I might still suppose she did what the hell she wanted to, which is sexy. One of the most unsexy things I notice are women who laugh on cue when they are supposed to, and don't know how to laugh just because something is actually funny. This is why we go to plays and movies--to see if a date has any sense of things or not. Any respectable guy is pleased rather than embarrassed if his girl laughs out loud on her own, then all the other people, shaved, in ties, reekingly perfumed and cologned, try to get it.

   I usually like long hair for men and women, but when it started to go, I took a liking to very short hair, for me. I couldn't do the bald-spot pony-tail thing. I'm liking the facial-hair and head-hair about the same length sort of look.

   It is a sad fate never to find the right haircut, but it is a doom many of us encounter.

   It may be true that t.v. undermines intelligent politics, but so does everything, and it's always been the case that it's harder for a very bright person to get elected, despite that it's a good idea. And how hard is it to know not to get made up like Herman Munster's flaming gay brother for a t.v. debate, Gore?--not that there's anything wrong with that. Some of my best friends are Herman Munster's flaming gay brother.

I didn't see Bush winning any debates either, and don't expect to, but people seem to identify with his regular-guy doofiness. He was more spontaneous, for (better or) worse. T.V. isn't going to go away so it goes back to whether one is happy feeling right, or really wants to effect anything.

if I was going to try to change someone's mind, I'd try not to piss them off, but say I don't think Bush has the long-term strategy for what he's got us into. And even if he did, he's not the right name to do it under. Economically he may force an end to social security--which no one can politically propose but could result from a fiscal crisis. He has created distrust and animosity apart from his policies per se, but by bungling every possible diplomacy, being too blatantly dismissive of many people's concerns, here and in the world generally. An administrative change would be a step toward a healing diplomacy. And moreover, every day he looks a little more like Queen Elizabeth.

I don't know if that's under two minutes, but I think if you attack people's views utterly you lose your chance to sway them. Lay low. Appear to take people and their idiotic crap seriously, pretend to be swayed by them, on some points, then barter your own concerns cheap.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: jimmyt
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 09:53 AM

Hear, Hear, Fred Miller! A wise man among us, who finally steps forward in the foray and pretty much sums it up. I pretty much agree with you straight across the board on this post. The original premise being that anyone who has dissimilar beliefs is a moron, is not much of a way to effect change. Period. I also agree that President Bush has done a fair amount of bungling of things and somehow has managed to piss off most of our friends in Europe with his blunt approach to diplomatic matters.

Here is a premise that I would like to discuss briefly inasmuch as we have strayed to the hair/hairless. woman/lady stuff already anyway.

I believe that we need a change to Democratic politics either next election or certainly the election after that if, for no other reason that I think party domination of any branch of government is a bad idea, and will ultimately corrupt regardless of the party. agree or disagree?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Peg
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 10:19 AM

okay, more thread drift...It may   be true that *some* women are too "lazy" to shave, but again, that brings it into the realm of hygiene, too, doesn't it? Does that mean women who do not wear make-up are also lazy? Maybe they just don't need it, or just plain don't want to. I've had more than one ignorant person assume I must be a lesbian because I don't shave under my arms. Actually, most of the lesbians I know who I have had occasion to see in summer clothes or at clothing-optional campsites like the one I go to each summer, DO shave there.

But why does your theory not apply to French women? This is just too inconsistent to make sense. This also clearly points out that we are talking about a cultural norm. Use of the term "red-blooded" always means to me, men too insecure about their sexuality to accept any sort of look or practice beyond the screamingly "normal." How dull. Bleached blonde, hairless, loads of make-up, high heels, spandex...yawn.

The crystal deodorant comment doesn't make sense. I do not use that product regularly, but in my experience it is not a problem, and the ones I do use do not leave any residue.

As for the age thing, I know MANY women of ALL ages who do not shave under their arms, from 16 to 60. Some shave their legs, some do not. The amount of body hair they have sometimes prompts these choices. If I had the small amount of pale leg hair some of my friends have, I might opt not to shave my legs, either. But it's not the case, so I do. It's an aesthetic choice as well; I like the way underarm hair looks.

I am certainly not lazy about my grooming, but I can only speak for myself. I have lovely long hair and I wear lipstick every day and skirts and dresses half the time. When I worked as an exotic dancer, I had to shave everything. Now I choose to shave my legs only. It seems to be okay with Europeans, who do not see such grooming habits as indicative of femininity or lack thereof. Then again, they do not get all freaked out by a bit of nudity either.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 10:43 AM

This thread has far surpassed my original expectations, moving seamlessly from mere political mudslinging to perceptive social commentary to farcical humour and back again without missing a beat.

Gotta love the Mudcat! Good on you, Peg, and good on you too, Fred.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Amos
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 10:57 AM

Well, Mickey, what was your moustache's question? I'll give it a shot...

A

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Mickey191
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 01:33 PM

"Does not apply to French Ladies" and "whether she qualifys or not" were phrases I employed to bring some humor to my posts. Obviously, they failed to raise even a smile.

Am I not alowed to express an oinion here? I said if I see hairy armpits on a lady, whether wrong or right, I think it's due to laziness. I must admit I was not familiar with the stance being taken by Peg & Buffy that it is a political statement. Nor did I know that gay ladies wear hairy armpits as a badge of some sort. Seems everything is not as it appears.

Peg, I'm glad you have lovely long hair & wear lipstick-but if you were sans lipstick, I doubt anyone would notice or care. The reason I...... Oh forget it.

Amos, I have had it with ANY hair question. Maybe next year I'll go at the mustache question.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Amos
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 01:53 PM

Mickey:

You sound exasperated!?! Deep breath -- no offense has been meant in this thread that I have seen. Being misinterpreted is part of the normal risk. Don't let it bug ya!!

A

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: jimmyt
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 02:29 PM

So, let me see if I get this straight, Mickey, You are dancing around the political correctness of the lady -woman and hairy-shaved armpit issues, but you still don't think it offensive that you call anyone not sharing your political views morons? Wow! I am constantly being amazed by things!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Mickey191
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 02:54 PM

jimmyt, you are repeating yourself. Wine does that. This is the 3rd time for same query. I've answered you twice before. Get over it.

Amos, Thanks for the kind words. I really thought we were beating a dead horse. I was afraid if I asked the Moustache question we might bring the poor thing back to life only to slay him again.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: jimmyt
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 03:00 PM

It is just that when I say something stupid and crass like that, if it is brought to my attention, I realize how small minded I have been and apologize.   You are right. I guess it is the wine talking.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 03:56 PM

Mickey, good humored poking and tweaking shouldn't feel bad.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Mickey191
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 04:32 PM

Dear Hearts, Apology accepted & I never said I felt badly about anything. As a matter of fact, I'm feeling rather chipper. I just shaved!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 05:02 PM

Why don't lesbians in any movie I've ever seen have hairy armpits?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 05:11 PM

Does that mean that you were lazy? They do say that the things that bug us in others are those we can't stand in ourselves...

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Mickey191
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 05:52 PM

Jeeze Ebby, What side of the bed did you get out of-Another humorous aside. You must be alot of fun to hang with.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,Martin gibson
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 05:54 PM

Who is "they"? I've been trying to figure out who "they" is for years.

The things that bug me about others are absolutely things I don't do.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Amos
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 05:57 PM

There is no "They" there, Martin -- it's all you!!

A

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 07:26 PM

I give up.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Amos
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 07:28 PM

PLease don't Eb!!

Projection is a very true working principle, but that doesn't mean everyone is able to notice it happening.

A

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 07:45 PM

I've been wodering but refraining from comment on the same ponderable Martin: Things that are "sexy" do tend to get a lot of attention from the cameras. The market for the hairy armpit genre does not seem to be a major, driving economic force.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: jimmyt
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 08:43 PM

_So then Armpit Hair= lazy, and anything other than liberal =moron? Mickey, I am having trouble seeing that you are a liberal in your thought process. Seems that you are as narrow minded as those that you catagorically call morons. Can you say "Compromise?" Seems that most of the people fall in to the middle ground if you really really care to find out what their belief systems are.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Mickey191
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 09:02 PM

5 hours & 43 minutes have made a complete change in you jimmyt. What's the brand you use-Gallo or Sandyman Port? Or perhaps you forgot to take your meds. Take care. The next time you ask will be number 5. Have a nap, honey.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: jimmyt
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 09:20 PM

mickey. I have had 2 glasses of wine this evening. Santa Marghareta Pinot Grigio. Nice wine. My head is clear. I am not going to lower myself to throwing insults at you. I merely ask you if you feel that your name calling is in any remote way going to ever convince anyone to take a better look at your views?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 09:23 PM

A bit of general advice: If you approach anyone in such a way that they realize you think that they are a moron, you clearly have no interest in a conversation. Or conversion. It doesn't make any difference whether it is religion politics or baseball. When you approach anyone on any topic in a way that is condescending, they will not hear you... and shouldn't even waste their time listening to you.

When it comes to treating people with respect, it's ALL oranges.

I happen to think that George W. is the most destructive force we have had in the Presidency in my lifetime. I desire as much as anyone to lead people to see what he is doing to this country.

Treating people like morons isn't a particularly effective (or appealing) approach.

I think you're nuts if you vote for George W next time around, jimmyt, but I'm with you. A measured discourse is the only way forward!

If you want people to listen to you, you have to listen to them, too..

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 09:42 PM

Let me amend that statement, jimmy... I think you are a true gentleman and of above average intelligence, and I have a great respect for you as a person even if I DO think you are nuts if you vote for Bush again. :-)

You're still my man, jimmyt

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: jimmyt
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 09:44 PM

thanks Jerry. YOu are a fine man..................hairy armpits and all!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Wolfgang
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 02:11 PM

I came to this thread meaning to post something like If you want to convince someone you first must get his attention. You'll surely get it by starting 'Listen to me, you moron' and then to go on with a sarcastic rant.

But Jerry Rasmussen has said the same idea without any sarcasm and so much nicer. Well done. Much better than my aborted approach.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 02:44 PM

He might have said it nicer and with less sarcasm, but it wasn't as fucking entertaining.

If "they" is all me, how ya doin' everybody!

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Mickey191
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 02:56 PM

You fellows have made a wrong assumption. You seriously believe that I'd talk down or treat someone like a moron-even if they were a card carrying, dues paying, member of The Moron club. No I have not nor would I. I quite well understand there is no gain in doing that. One presents his case & if it falls on deaf ears, so be it.

jimmyt, five posts with the same questions is a bit redundent. In your apology at 3:00 you blamed it on the wine. I accepted said apology, then you started again. You opened the door Dear Heart.

Now if you will permit me, I shall fold my tent & be off. Two words I shall never utter again in this lifetime: Moron & armpits.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: jimmyt
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 03:43 PM

mickey, if you will re-read, I made no such apology at 3o'clock. I was referring to your actions, and that if I had done something so insulting as you had done, I would apologise. I am sorry if my syntax confused you. Hope you are not leaving on my accord. After all, I am a card carrying member.

In all seriousness, though, people,(not directed to Mickey 191 as for whatever reason, she doesn't seem to get my point or care) I am a Republican largely, but I would never call any of you stupid just because of a belief system you have. Even if we may disagree, isn't it better to discuss issues without name calling?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 04:38 PM

"Two words I shall never utter again in this lifetime: Moron & armpits. " Mickey, that is very funny. Come to think of it, the words are probably avoidable.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: jimmyt
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 04:41 PM

I guess you could substitute Idiot and Axilla

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 06:12 PM

Dogs have furry leg pits

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 07:10 PM

Hmmmm...reminds me of the time (long gone) when "Little Moron" jokes were all the rage:

Question: How did the little moron shave his armpits?

Answer: With a chainsaw. Now he can't shave at all.

And so on, and so on... There were hundreds of 'em. I just made up the one you see above, but it's fairly typical of the genre. The "little moron" was always male for some reason...just like most of the regular characters in comics at that time. It was a moron's world, I guess. :-)

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 08:28 PM

A crew of morons is building a house. The foreman comes along. He asks: Why are you throwing away half the nails?? Because, says the worker, the heads are on the wrong end. You moron! says the foreman. They're for the other side of the house.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: Sam L
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 08:57 PM

Thanks Jimmyt, tho I only said what you've said all along, in my own imitable way.

I didn't mean to assume what was being looked for in the way of short and convincing arguments, but this repetitive admonishment isn't a bad idea, since it's very easy to get frustrated with people you disagree strongly with. Well, I tried.

Peg it's lovely that you used to be an exotic dancer--many people get stuck at that, meaning to move on to something else, but not getting around to it. My sister wanted to, and it would've helped at the time, but she was a little scared she might lose the momentum to do other things, because of the money.

I think of myself as a red-blooded American male, but I still shave everywhere just to stay busy.

   The lesbians in movies are fake lesbians. Why don't we let people tell us what's sexy and beautiful? Customers--people are such customers. It's not so offensive to be perfectly conventional in one's tastes and opinions, it's just obvious, and not very noteworthy. Nothing terribly wrong with it, but why expect anyone to find it of any interest? For weird people I suppose it's a fun project to be "normal" but for normal people there's little interest in the exercise. They aready have the Encyclopedia Of Received Ideas gathering dust on the bookshelf.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,Guest bob UK
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 09:25 PM

ask Martin Gibson as he as obviously been convinced that the good old USA is every bit as good as Hollywood says it is I'm not pro Bush. Nor am I a Republican, a liberal. I am a moderate American with an open mind. But I don't claim to have all of the answers either. Nor do I relate to calling people with different politics morons just to start conversations.

"To the ones who don't live in this country who bad mouth it, please kiss my ass on the corner State & Madison. I wouldn't trade it here for anything. Especially for a country with women with hairy armpits. I'm glad that I am raising my children here."

Thats why Americans have a hard time of it abroad and if They bring the same level of sensitivity to the world stage is it suprising the rest of the world see America as a nation led by a moron

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: jimmyt
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 10:36 PM

Is State and Madison in Chicago?

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: *daylia*
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 11:36 AM

Okay, just have to add on to some points made above re body hair...

Obviously, hairy armpits are there for a reason, on either sex. The hair holds the phenomes (fancy word for personal stink ... sorry, that's "scent") longer than plain ole skin, thus attracting more potential mates to oneself. Certain other (more southerly) hairy areas serve the same purpose.

Please note -- this stroke of Creator's biological genius works best in places like Blind River, where mate selection is notoriously limited, and even the waterways are blind.   

Remember, the Bible says that your power grows in your hair. Samson and Delilah make that point quite well. So, why should your scalp be more powerful than your armpits?

Take a tip from our brothers and sisters, the snakes. How lowly and deprived they are, slithering around hairless, even armpit-less, in the dirt! Now you may prefer to smell like a snake rather than a human, but would you wanna look more like them? I thought NOT!

Point made!!

Now, where'd I put that Lady Schick ....

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 12:37 PM

Bein a moron is bad. Bein a less-on is worse! Yuk! Yuk! My idiot brother Don is a less-on, cos I am more "on" the ball than he is, know what I mean?

Just ab0ut everything works best in Blind River, Daylia.

As far as girls, well, I guess I like the smooth look best for armpits on them girls but I aint all that particullar about it on a slow day, eh? As long as she aint a spot-counter, shes' okay with me.

- BDiBR

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,Nigel (hard at work!)
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 01:45 PM

Of course Terry Pratchett's use of a yokel member of the City Watch with the name "Carrot" was lost on me until Radio 4 did a version of the tale. Carrot was given a distinct Welsh accent. And the Welsh for Carrot is ?..... Moron

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: *daylia*
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 02:18 PM

BDiBR, YOU a mor-on!? YOU have a "slow day"?? Ha! Ha ha HA!! Smooth as a snake, you are ... hey, "carrot" IS more like it!

Thanks, Nigel!

Take it from me BDiBR, ya gotta get mor-on in the armpit hair dept for sure if you wanna standa chance against them WAsTEDinWAwa pheromones! Maybe try chasing them glow-in-the-dark Blind River meese around the sparkling snow-frosted clear-cuts a bit longer too ... ;-)

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 10:35 AM

Guest Bob U.K.

Not Hollywood, but my own life's experience. Don't hurry back to America if you have a problem with it. No one is forcing you to live in the U.K are they? Whether you like Bush or not, 50% voted him in. I didn't vote for him, but I will be here to vote against him again and you probably won't.

Yes, the corner of State & Madison is ground zero in downtown Chicago for the one who asked.

Subject: RE: BS: How do you Convince a Moron...
From: GUEST,Bonzo the Third
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 10:44 AM

Anywhere in Chicago is ground zero. Believe me on this. I wouldn't go there again if I was offered all the bananas in Costa Rica.