Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 12:15 PM

Come to think of it, if someone like Mike Harding were to go for it, you could do a fantastic "Who Am I" style TV series on the DNA of folk songs, tracing the songs back to their writers' lives.

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 06:15 AM

It would be interesting to see if the British Army has any records of a John Sweeney from Cavan in the 1860s-90s.

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,Rory
Date: 08 Nov 20 - 05:09 AM

KIERNAN AND RELATED SOURCES FOR THE ORIGINS OF "ROCKS OF BAWN"

a) RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,Kiernan
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 07:42 AM

b) RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,kiernan
Date: 16 Dec 06 - 02:41 PM

c) RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,Guest Kiernan Update
Date: 04 Dec 09 - 04:51 PM

d) RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,Kiernan
Date: 03 Apr 20 - 04:38 PM

e) RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,THE LAST MAN TO PLOUGH THE ROCKS OF BAWN
Date: 18 Apr 14 - 02:26 PM

f) RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,Maureen (Mary Bridget) Cooke
Date: 07 Aug 20 - 05:05 AM

g) RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,John Moulden
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 06:21 AM


THE ROCKS OF BAWN

Song by John Sweeney c1860.
Born in the 1840s in Glan in the parish of Mullahoran, Co Cavan.

Printed in Sam Henry's Songs of the People, H139, p. 42,  1926


"ROCKS OF BAWN"
Version A
Composer John Sweeney
of Glan, Parish of Mullahoran, Co Cavan born 1840s.
Sang by James Dunne of Cloncovit born 1886.
Written down by Tommy Kiernan of Granard, husband of Rosanne Cooke Kiernan of Bawn, Mullahoran (Great granddaughter of the master “The widow Bawn “)

1
Come all ye gallant heroes a warning take from me
Never hire with any master till you know what your work will be
He will rise you in the morning before the break of dawn
I ‘m afraid you will never be able to plough the Rocks of Bawn.

2
Now rise up gallant Sweeney and give your horses hay
And give to them a feed of oats before you go away
Don’t feed them on soft turnips that grow on yonder lawn
Or for it you will surely rue to plough the Rocks of Bawn.

3
Now my sock are getting worn and my coulter is getting thin
My heart is always trembling, afraid I might give in
My heart is nearly broken from the clear daylight till dawn
I’m afraid I won’t be able to plough the Rocks of Bawn.

4
My curse upon ye Sweeney, you have me nearly robbed.
For you’re sitting by the fireside with your dudgeen in your gob
You’re sitting in the fireside from the clear daylight till dawn
I‘m afraid you won’t be able to plough the Rocks of Bawn.

5
Well Sweeney, gallant Sweeney for you I have great moan
For the wind and rain beats upon your face among the rocks and stones
The wind and rain beats on your face from the clear daylight till dawn
I ‘m afraid you won’t be able to plough the Rocks of Bawn

6
Oh I wish the Queen of England would send for me in time
And place me in some regiment in all my youth and prime
I’d fight for Ireland’s glory from the clear daylight till dawn
And I swear I ‘d never return again to plough the Rocks of Bawn


NOTES ON THE SONG

dúidín (dudgeen) = clay pipe with most of the stem broken off. Lots of poorer people would continue to smoke a clay pipe when the stem broke, as long as there was enough of it left to stick in their gob.

Bawn (bán) = a plain or even a small flat piece of land. It's the sort of topographical term that crops up in lots of place names throughout the country.

Stocking and shoe = sock and coulter.
derived from the names for parts of a swing plough.
The 'sock' of a plough is an iron plate about nine inches square, slightly concave and sharpened all round to divide the soil horizontally;
The coulter is the elaborately curved plate placed at its lowest edge, perpendicular to the sock, that forms the furrow by turning the soil.

verse 1
"Come on you loyal heroes..."
Sweeney is referring to the horses used for ploughing.
So the whole verse could be referring to the horses, which Sweeney cares much for.

verse 3
The shoes (coulter) of the plough is well worn, and the stocking (sock) of the plough is thin. Sweeney is worried that the plough will fail, and even hit a rock and bounce up and injure or kill him.

verse 4
The farmer master accuses Sweeney of robbing him because he remains dozing or smoking his pipe by the fire, when he should instead go to the fields to plow.

verse 6
"Queen of England"
Referring to the reign of Queen Victoria (1837-1901)


BACKGROUND OF JOHN SWEENEY AND THE SONG "THE ROCKS OF BAWN"

John Sweeney grew up in famine times (1845-1849). At sixteen he was sent to work for neighbouring farmers.
He secured himself a job with a woman called "The Widow Bawn Reilly" from the townland of Bawn also in the parish of Mullahoran. The widow of Bawn outlived three husbands in her day. Two of her husbands were killed ploughing the Rocks of Bawn by the plough springing up forcefully as it hits a rock . Hence as it says in the song -it was more dangerous to plough than to join the British army.
“My heart is always trembling, afraid I might give in”
Sweeney was fearful he would suffer the same fate as the widow’s husband,
Dying of heart trembles ploughing Bawn.

She was renowned as a hard task master and expected poor Sweeney to plough the fields of Bawn renowned for the huge rocks which liberally covered the fields hence the name the Rocks of Bawn .
Those Rocks goes back to the ice age and peppered the fields like icebergs, most of them barely above the surface.
No wonder the poor man made up songs about it.

John Sweeney could neither read nor write but regularly spoke in rhyme. A family called the Seerys of Creevy wrote down the songs for him.

It is said that most of his songs were composed in Boylan's Forge in the townland of Cullaboy also in the parish of Mullahoran.
In those days the forge was the favourite meeting place for local people.

Sweeney composed another famous ballad . "The Creevy Grey Mare".
The townland of Creevy lies in North Longford half a mile from Bawn. This ballad was written in the same style as The Rocks of Bawn and contains several local references. One line refers specifically to Boylan's Forge;

"God bless and protect Peter Boylan
my sock or my coulter he'd mend
for he was a boy that could shoe her
and leave her quite straight on her limbs."

The ballad relates to a mare which Sweeney obviously used to plough in the area. The socks and coulter refer to parts of the plough. He relates how his master brought the mare to the fair in Bunlahy, Granard and she was bought by "Reynolds the odd jobber" for the Queen's Army and its military needs.
Sweeney laments the loss of his mare and reflects on the torture she will suffer in battle.
"But if I was a horseman who rode her
of corn I'd give her her fill
and with my gun and bayonet
it's Ryenolds the auld jobber I'd kill."

He rounds off the ballad on a hopeful note:

"But if she comes back to Ireland
and lands on Erin's green shore
I'll send for my master to buy her
and I'll plough her in Creevy once more."

Sweeney himself joined the British army along with his plough horses. It's uncertain whether he died or deserted. Some rumours said he went to live in America. One doggrel verse popular in the bars of new york many years ago contained a reference to Sweeney:
"There were charming maids from Cavan
as graceful as the fawn
and poor old gallant Sweeney
sang the Rocks of Bawn."


TIME PERIOD OF SONG AND DATE OF COMPOSITION

We can assume that the period of the song is set some time after the famine years, which were between 1845 and 1849, and the song composed at about the same time.
John Sweeney was born in the 1840s and grew up in the famine years. At 16 years he started working on neighboring farms, which would be between 1856 and 1861.

Sweeney himself joined the British army along with his plough horses. It's uncertain whether he died or deserted.
So it appears he never returned to his homeland in the parish of Mullahoran Co Cavan.
He would most likely have joined the army while he was still a young adult, perhaps even before he reached 20 years of age. As he wrote in his song:
"And place me in some regiment all in my youth and prime"

He may have worked on the farms for only two or three years before he left to join the army.
Sweeney was illiterate and a family called the Seerys of Creevy wrote down the songs for him while he was still in the area.
So the song could only have been composed in the time he was still in his homeland. This could be between 1857 and 1864.


FURTHER NOTE

An essay about music and song "Along the Annagh Road"(Which is near Granard in Co. Cavan) by one Mary Tiernan, then a pupil of Cnoc Muire Secondary School in Granard, won first prize in a Competition 'Duchas' (Heritage) run by Comhaltas Ceoiltoirí Eireann in 1975. The essay, with a picture of the purported Rocks of Bawn was printed in the magazine 'Treoir' vol. 7 number 5 for Samhain (Hallowe'en approximately)1975.
It gives a text of The Rocks of Bawn, attributing it to Barney Sweeney and giving the usual five stanzas.

So what relation is Barney Sweeney to John Sweeney? And what was his contribution in composing the song?
Are they the same person?


.

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,gecko
Date: 08 Aug 20 - 04:35 AM

I've scanned all the posts above but haven't seen mention of Paul Brady's cracking version of the song which appears on 'The Given Note' by Liam O'Flynn (1995 - Tara Music)
YIU
gecko

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,Maureen (Mary Bridget) Cooke
Date: 07 Aug 20 - 05:05 AM

My father Terence Cooke (grandson of the master 'The Widow Bawn') was the eldest son of Patrick and Bridget Cooke of Bawn. He worked the farm with his mother as a child and grown man. His father in America for about 15 years and so he had to become the man of the house at a very young age. He was the last man to plough the rocks of Bawn with shire horses. He was a very proud, kind and generous man with enormous dignity and wisdom.

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,Kiernan
Date: 03 Apr 20 - 04:38 PM

Come all ye gallant heroes a warning take from me
Never hire with any master till you know what your work will be
He will rise you in the morning before the break of dawn
I ‘m afraid you will never be able to plough the Rocks of Bawn.

Now rise up gallant Sweeney and give your horses hay
And give to them a feed of oats before you go away
Don’t feed them on soft turnips that grow on yonder lawn
Or for it you will surely rue to plough the Rocks of Bawn.

Now my sock are getting worn and my coulter is getting thin
My heart is always trembling, afraid I might give in
My heart is nearly broken from the clear daylight till dawn
I’m afraid I won’t be able to plough the Rocks of Bawn.

My curse upon ye Sweeney, you have me nearly robbed.
For you’re sitting by the fireside with your dudgeen in your gob
You’re sitting in the fireside from the clear daylight till dawn
I‘m afraid you won’t be able to plough the Rocks of Bawn.

Well Sweeney, gallant Sweeney for you I have great moan
For the wind and rain beats upon your face among the rocks and stones
The wind and rain beats on your face from the clear daylight till dawn
I ‘m afraid you won’t be able to plough the Rocks of Bawn

Oh I wish the Queen of England would send for me in time
And place me in some regiment in all my youth and prime
I’d fight for Ireland’s glory from the clear daylight till dawn
And I swear I ‘d never return again to plough the Rocks of Bawn.

Composer John Sweeney Glan Mullahoran Cavan born 1840s.
Sang by James Dunne Cloncovit born 1886.
Written down by Tommy Kiernan Granard husband of Rosanne Cooke Kiernan of Bawn Mullahoran (Great granddaughter of the master “The widow Bawn “)

“My heart is always trembling, afraid I might give in”
Sweeney was fearful he would suffer the same fate as the widow’s husband
Dying of heart trembles ploughing Bawn.

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,Simon Oak
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 10:07 PM

P.S. don't miss this page of the Clare Library, where Tom Lenihan sings the song (recording 1976) and talks to Jim Carroll about it and about singing techniques.

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,Simon Oak
Date: 10 Apr 17 - 09:31 PM

Wow, did I just plough through 18+ years of rocky discussion about one single song? To save newcomers some time, I'd say: search this page for "Kiernan" before you add another speculation. I'll take his words with me. Thank you all and please don't stop chatting about this awesome song. Its air features in many other songs, like Amhrán Mhuínse / The Song of Muínis - Líadan or The Cormack Brothers, a story from Loughmore about unjust hangings in 1858.

Come on, let's break records. May this thread never stop!

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: Thompson
Date: 22 Sep 16 - 03:26 PM

Programme on TG4 at the moment, Na Bailéid, is talking about the song, and has tracked it to Mullahoran in Cavan, where there's a townland called Bawn and a field known as the Rocks of Bawn; others are disagreeing. Fabulous programme, by the way.

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,John Moulden
Date: 25 Aug 16 - 12:58 PM

At least 114 Bawns have been documented but, in Ireland, it has been agreed, over many years that the most plausible of them is the one in Cavan, near Granard (which is however, in Co. Longford).

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: Thompson
Date: 25 Aug 16 - 05:01 AM

Well, I have one in front of my house and another behind, since the word "bawn" is and was commonly used for a lawn.

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: leeneia
Date: 24 Aug 16 - 09:39 PM

How many Bawns are there now?

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,John Moulden
Date: 24 Aug 16 - 12:30 PM

There are fourteen townlands named "Bawn" in the Townlands Index of the 1851 Census of Ireland - and another hundred with the first syllable 'Bawn'. The name is common also because it referred to the outer ward of a fortified house. Google maps is inadequate for any but the broadest details of Irish geography.

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: leeneia
Date: 24 Aug 16 - 10:03 AM

If you open Google Maps and search for Bawn, Ireland, it will take you to a hamlet called Bawn in County Offaly. It is surrounded by peat bogs, and I suppose the place will soon become unlivable. (I haven't checked to see if there are homes there anymore.)

We can safely assume that whether surrounded by bogs or rocks, that Bawn was not a good place to be.

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: Thompson
Date: 24 Aug 16 - 03:24 AM

The 'queen of England' line is because for many labourers, the next step up in prosperity was to join the British Army, which at least had regular pay and a payoff for your dependents if you were killed while abusing others' rights in defence of the British Empire's. For a trodden-down labourer, there was little difference between ploughing from dawn to dark on hard land under a hard employer and marching from dawn to dark through distant lands under a hard sergeant major.

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,Pete
Date: 23 Aug 16 - 06:09 AM

There is an excellent live album featuring John Renbourn and Robin Williamson. RW sings this song and gives a little explanation. He says (roughly) that the song is simultaneously about the burden yet the dignity of hard labour as well as deeper meanings about injustice. Bawn, he seems to indicate is a specific place but I can't be sure of that.
Pete

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Aug 16 - 06:49 PM

queen of england or sergeant majors, whats the feckin difference they both represent the establishment.

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,John Moulden
Date: 22 Aug 16 - 02:39 PM

In the hope that someone who might welcome the information I entered immediately above has been on holiday: refresh!

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,John Moulden
Date: 11 Aug 16 - 06:21 AM

Kiernan's suggestion (or rather, insistence), above, that the line usually given as:

'My shoes they are well worn now, my stockings they are thin'

derives from the names for part of a swing plough, is the only time I have heard this. However, I have now found further authority.
An essay about music and song "Along the Annagh Road"(Which is near Granard in Co. Cavan) by one Mary Tiernan, then a pupil of Cnoc Muire Secondary School in Granard, won first prize in a Competition 'Duchas' (Heritage) run by Comhaltas Ceoiltoirí Eireann in 1975. The essay, with a picture of the purported Rocks of Bawn was printed in the magazine 'Treoir' vol. 7 number 5 for Samhain (Hallowe'en approximately)1975.

It gives a text of The Rocks of Bawn, attributing it to Barney Sweeney and giving the usual five stanzas. However, the line corresponding to that I give above reads:

My coulter's very worn now, My sock is very thin

The 'sock' of a plough is an iron plate about nine inches square, slightly concave and sharpened all round to divide the soil horizontally; the coulter is the elaborately curved plate placed at its lowest edge, perpendicular to the sock, that forms the furrow by turning the soil. Thus the line is completely consistent with the theme of the song. The process whereby the trade terms became transformed is well-known to 'folk'.

The final verse asks the Queen of England for support -none of your sergeant-majors on the Annagh Road.

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,James
Date: 28 Nov 15 - 02:43 PM

The original words did not contain the phrase"For Ireland will be free" but the revised version did.This was after independence.

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 10:18 AM

Yes it does, mayomick - Dineen gives "bádhún" as an alternative spelling for that "yard" sense of "bán". The effect would probably be to make the sound "baw-oon" or such. I've never heard it, myself.

"white rocks" doesn't make sense in this context - though , oddly, it does turn up in another song family i.e. Bruach na Carraige Báine"/"Banks of Carriage Bawne"

Regards

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: mayomick
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 08:35 AM

I don't have much Irish either, Martin . I knew the song from my mother singing bits and pieces of it . She always said that the rocks of bawn meant the white rocks as well. It's what I always thought before reading this thread , but I'm not so sure now .Does the "Bádhún Buí" etymology given in the wiki entry check out?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bawnboy

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,MartinRyan
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 07:08 PM

Note to self - login to Mudcat on your bloody phone!

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 06:47 PM

Hi mayomick.

The estimable Sam Henry's usage is essentially Dineen's "yard". He may well have believed what he was told (I doubt he had Irish) but the fact remains - there are lots of yards in Ireland - yellow and otherwise.

Regards

P.s. And then, of course, there's the "bawnogue" ...!

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 05:59 PM

"Ewan MacColl was unable to resist being 'definitive' about anything he ever said-"
I spent twenty odd years working with him, part of the Citics Group, we interviewed him for six months and I lived in their house for a month when I moved to London - wonder how I managed to miss that one!!
Don't recall meeting you - Chinese Whispers again I suppose
The man's been dead for 25 years and still people are taking a pop - praise indeed from some quarters
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: mayomick
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 05:34 PM

Yes , but if Henry was right , the Bawn in the song is named after an archaeological feature and not a topographical one.

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 04:22 PM

FFS...

The noun "bán", pronounced "bawn" in English, in the context of topography means:

"a plain, lea-ground, dry pasture land, river-side pasture; a yard." (Dineen, for those interested in such)

There are lots of plains, leas-grounds, dry pasture lands, river-side pastures and yards in Ireland.

Relax.

Regards

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 03:56 PM

Ewan MacColl was unable to resist being 'definitive' about anything he ever said- ie- argue with the 'party line' at your peril. The tradition continues, it seems.

I heard quite enough of his blinkered views during his lifetime, so no séance please!
nb...
I have no intention of being drawn into any pointless arguments about MacColl, having better things to do, so thank you 'mayomick' for getting back to the subject with your further interesting comments.

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: mayomick
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 03:22 PM

Sam Henry ,who published the song in 1926, states that Bawn or Bawnboy is in Co.Cavan.   
He gives the last verse as :

I wish the queen of England had sent for me in time,
And placed me in some regiment all in my youthful prime .
I'd fight for England's glory from clear day light of dawn
And I never would return again to plough the Rocks of Bawn.

"Bawnboy (Irish: an Bádhún Buí, meaning "the yellow bawn") is a small village in a valley at the foot of Slieve Rushen, between Ballyconnell and Swanlinbar, in County Cavan, Ireland. The current population is about 250. A bawn is the defensive wall surrounding an Irish tower house. It is the anglicised version of the Irish word badhún meaning "cattle-stronghold" or "cattle-enclosure" – its original purpose was to protect cattle during an attack. The remains of a late medieval bawn is to be seen at Bawnboy House, which is the origin of the village name."........ wiki

this is from Sir Charles Coote in his 'Statistical Survey of County Cavan' quoted in the wiki entry on Bawnboy : "No part of Cavan is less engaged in manufacture........ nor are there any lands so favourably disposed for improvement, if we consider the small rents,and the valuable change, which is wrought on the soil of this hilly region by a small applicationof lime, and a little persevering industry."

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 02:15 PM

Shame we cannot have an internet seance, I would be very interested on his views of the uk folk revival of 2015.

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 01:42 PM

"and 'definitive' quotes from Ewan MacColl are also unconvincing."
Can't remember Ewan making any "definitive" statements on Rocks of Bawn
Pity he's been dead for a quarter of a century to confirm or deny this!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 18 Jul 15 - 01:54 PM

Just come across this & having read Kieran's interesting information, must say that the rough and rocky lands of Cavan (Granard isn't far away) fit the bill very well- am less impressed by Dominic Behan's views on the matter- he often spoke rubbish--- and 'definitive' quotes from Ewan MacColl are also unconvincing.

Seamus Ennis said that Bawn was on the Cork/Kerry border, and I first heard it in a Killarney pub in 1964, sung in waltz time by an old man acoompanying himself on an accordion- I've done it like him ever since-
I heard Joe Heaney sang it at the Marsden Inn folk club soon after that in quite a different style but I don't recall him explaining the location of Bawn- like a good man, he just got on with the song......

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,Edmond G Troy
Date: 17 Jul 15 - 06:43 PM

The Rocks of Bawn song. Bawn is in the townland of Kilola in Connemara in the county of Galway its rocky poor farmland. In the 1700s the English were in Ireland and many a farmhand struggled in their work of ploughing this awful land with a horse and plough. This is a lament of one of those farmhands wishing he could join an English Regiment and leave the hardship of ploughing the lands surrounding the townland of Bawn hence t
The Rocks of Bawn

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Apr 14 - 02:34 PM

Notes I've just written for the song
Jim Carroll

Rocks of Bawn – (Roud 3204) Tom Lenihan
For many of us coming to traditional song for the first time in the early 1960s, Joe Heaney's magnificent rendition of it played a major part in making us life-long adherents.
Ewan MacColl's introduction to Joe's singing of it in the BBC radio series, 'The Song Carriers' sums of it up perfectly, these, and all song of the hardships of manual labour.
"The early 19th-century seamen working on the packet ships, clippers and East-India tea-wagons did not see themselves as jolly jack tars- that is a landsman's concept.    For them, it was hard-tack and bluenosed mates, long voyages and short rations.    In the same way, songs made up by farm labourers often reflect the countryman's love-hate relationship with the land.    This is particularly true of the West of Ireland songs. To the hired farm-labourer working the submarginal lands of the west coast where they had learned to subsist on rocks, bogs, salt-water and sea-weed, the .land was an enemy compared with which even the British army appeared as a refuge. 'The Rocks of Bawn', expresses this attitude perfectly."
The BBC recorded this from Liam Clancy's mother 'Mamo' Clancy Ballinafad, Co. Galway in 1954; she said she had heard it as a young woman, but had been prompted to re-learn it from the singing of Seamus Ennis.
Tom Lenihan learned it from local ballad seller, 'Bully' Nevin, and Willie Clancy's aunt, Mary Haren of Clooneyogan; several people have told us that they recall Bully bawling out the song at Miltown cattle fairs. Tom strongly disapproved of the line, "I wish the Queen of England" and said he much preferred Bully's "Patrick Sarsfield", but the comparison of the British army being preferable to ploughing rocks stands as a powerful indictment of the hardships of West of Ireland life in the 19th century.
Dominic Behan claimed the 'Bawn' referred to was in Cavan, the home of Martin Swiney, to whom he attributed the song. Tom Munnely said there were eleven townlands in Ireland bearing the name 'Bawn' and that he had been frequently told that the rocky field referred to was on the outskirts of Granard in County Longford.
Refs
The Song Carriers, 10 BBC radio programmes on the British and Irish singing tradition broadcast Feb-March 1965.
Mount Callan Garland, Songs of Tom Lenihan, Comhairle Bhéaloideas Éireann 1994

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,THE LAST MAN TO PLOUGH THE ROCKS OF BAWN
Date: 18 Apr 14 - 02:26 PM

My father Terence Cooke was the eldest son of Patrick Cooke and Bridget Cooke he worked the farm with his mother as a child and grown man. His father was in America for about 15 years and so he had to become the man of the house at a very young age. He was the last man to plough the rocks of Bawn with shire horses. He was a very proud, kind and generous man with enormous dignity and wisdom.

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Nov 13 - 04:16 PM

how can you talk about typos when you're translating from one language to another- it's a nonsense to say one's correct and the other's wrong, the 'right' one, if any, is in the original language, and I bet they didn't agree in BAWN either

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 07:34 PM

http://www.rocksofbawn.com/

The thought plickens.

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 13 - 07:04 PM

The mention of Dominic Behan's recording on a Collector EP is mentioned above (not a 78 I believe). The record actually called the song "The Rocks of Baun" but I'm sure this was a typo. I only recognise Joe Heaney's spelling "Rocks of Bawn" as being correct.

see

http://www.45cat.com/record/jei3&rc=203002#203002

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 07:46 PM

Since the clear meaning of ploughing the Rocks of Baun being a pretty hopeless task, it'd be very strange and defeatist for it to have been used in reference to the struggle for independence.

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,guest marco
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 05:32 PM

Always loved this song in any of it's incarnations...think that it's universality springs from the admonition to young folks to consider how to balance working for "good pay" with finding their own voice/vocation...of course the same applies to a man who should consider that working (ind1scriminately)for a master is just the equivalent of "working to keep working" which means that you are giving your life to a cause not your own...think that the ideas of the Irish being called to join revolutionary forces rather than the Queen's army seem valid, though I haven't really heard a version which is clearly analogous, in that respect...the various historical references are great ...thanks so much

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 11 - 08:16 AM

it would be nice to piece together the original words to this.Its obviously allegorical but unconsciously so like many others,and another fine product of the tradition. it has achieved an epic & iconic status chiefly thru Joe Heaney.The mixed up words are just the equivalent of archaeological layers.Dominic Behan has Patrick Sarsfield instead of the sergeant major which sounds like a bit of political correcting.It probably was Queen Victoria but it sounded uncool.It does sound Ulster to me.It may have been pentatonic originally and sounds even a bit Scottish.What an amazing discussion.Erudition and piss taking,both appreciated.

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,Guest Kiernan Update
Date: 04 Dec 09 - 04:51 PM

I heard a man called Jimmy Dunne (Mullaghoran Co cavan) Sing 26 verses of this song in Bradys Pub Dundevan Kilcogy Co Cavan- A few miles from the Rocks of Bawn farm in the early 1970/71.
Sadly Jimmy has passed away and I did not write the verses down.
In the song when Sweeney says "come on you loyal heroes" he is referring to the horses,AS I mentioned earlier the widow Bawn was married three times and two of her husbands were killed ploughing the Rocks of Bawn by the plough springing up forcefully as it hits a rock . Hence as it says in the song -it was more dangerous to plough than to join the British army.

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 09:49 AM

is it not allegorical,although horse ploughing is obsolete,we are still ploughing our own particular rocks,and battling with the hopelessness of life.

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,mick f
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 09:33 AM

look up the word BAWN and you will have your answer !

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,rocks of bawn
Date: 26 May 09 - 05:53 AM

A modern interpritation of a classic song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFGVy44sePw

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,j o'reilly
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 06:22 PM

i have family who live on the farm were the rocks of bawn are . There is a mass held there every year . its in pottle bawn lane in mulahoran my aunt is married to the man who owns the land which in the family name of cook.

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: Frank_Finn
Date: 28 Nov 08 - 07:35 PM

I always thought that the line
"Oh my shoes they are well worn and my stockings they are thin"

referred to the shoes and socks of the narrator, but lately a person told me that it refers to parts of a plough. Does anyone else agree with this?

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,Micheal
Date: 28 Nov 08 - 07:41 AM

Haven't read all the thread, but has anyone mentioned the Dominic Behan recording? I had this in the 60's, but it's gone the way of all 78's......
    Slainte,
          Micheal OhAodha

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Oct 08 - 04:38 AM

I was looking for the lyrics of that song and got to this recording at :

http://www.stumbleaudio.com/#patfloodyfriends/4

Subject: RE: Rocks of Bawn - Meaning?
From: GUEST,Flavio from Buenos Aires
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 01:22 AM

Hello, I'm trayin to find out if the song Rock of Bawn talk about a some real fact, I'm not find nathing in historical Irish sites. But I find diferents letters (lyrics I think?)....why?

Thank's any data