Origins: I Live Not Where I Love

Subject: I live not where I love
From:
Date: 03 Aug 98 - 05:20 PM

Hello! Does anyone know where I might find the lyrics to "I live not where I love", which appeared on Tim Hart and Maddy Prior's Summer Solstice disc as well as a John Renbourn Ship of Fools CD. Thank you, Frank Carey [e-mail]

Subject: RE: I live not where I love
From: Bruce O.
Date: 03 Aug 98 - 06:25 PM

Jean Redpath also sings a version. The song originated in 1600. See notes at ZN1787 in the broadside ballad index on my website, where sources of 2 traditioaanl versions are also given. Three 17th century tunes are given as B212-4 in file BM2.

www.erols.com/olsonw

Subject: RE: I live not where I love
From: Susan of DT
Date: 03 Aug 98 - 09:26 PM

I found two versions by searching for [not where I]

Subject: RE: I live not where I love
From: anne....
Date: 07 Aug 98 - 05:17 PM

Mary Black also sings I live not where I love on the CD Mary Black Collected from Grapevine. Try Dara Records!!

Subject: Lyrics for 'Though I Live Not Where I Love'
From:
Date: 24 Mar 99 - 06:43 PM

A friend of mine is looking for the lyrics to the song that contains the words 'Though I Live Not Where I Love'. She thinks she heard it on a DeDannen album.

Any and all help will be appreciated.

Subject: RE: Lyrics for 'Though I Live Not Where I Love'
From: Barbara
Date: 24 Mar 99 - 07:29 PM

Try the DT database. Just put [live not where] like that in brackets in the blue box upper right and it should come right up.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Lyrics for 'Though I Live Not Where I Love'
From: Bruce O.
Date: 24 Mar 99 - 09:43 PM

Jean Redpath's version, 1st in DT, is not a traditional version. A note on the 2nd in DT say the original was by Martin Parker, but Peter Lowberry also wrote an early version and it's hard to say which the traditional versions are descended from. The song started out a part of a poem on Virgin Mary, by Robert Southwell, about 1596, and Robert Morley set some verses of it to music in 1600. Morley's tune is that on my website among the broadside ballad tunes.

Subject: Lyr Add: I LIVE NOT WHERE I LOVE
From: Bruce O.
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 06:24 PM

[Correcting what I quoted from defective memory above, is this origin of "I live not where I love".]

[From Morley's 'First Book of Ayres', 1600. These are Robert Southwell's verses 5, 4, and 3 from "Marie Magdalens complaynte at Christes death", in 'Saint Peter's Complaint, With other Poems', 1595.]

With my loue my life was nestled,
In the some of happines,
From my loue my life was wrested,
To a world of heauines,
O let loue my life remoue,
Sith I liue not wher I loue.

Where the truth once was and is not,
Shadows are but vanities,
Shewing want that helpe they cannot,
Painted meate no hunger feedes,
Dying life each death exceedes.

O true loue since thou hast left me,
Mortall life is tedious,
Death it is to liue without thee,
Death of all most odious,
Turne againe and take me with thee,
Let me die, or liue thou in me.

Subject: RE: Lyrics for 'Though I Live Not Where I Love'
From: Bruce O.
Date: 25 Mar 99 - 08:30 PM

I've put the above text, Peter Lowberry' broadside version of 1638 (Martin Parker's broadside has nothing to do with this song), and a good traditional version of "I live not where I love" (Lowberry's ballad) in the Scarce Songs 2 file on my website.

Subject: I live not where I love
From: Arnie
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 03:28 PM

I have recently decided to try out the old song 'I live not where I love'. Got the words off the mudcat database but don't know anything about the origins, other than that it is very old. I'm sure someone once told me that it was penned by Henry VIII - though where he got the time in between divorcing/beheading/remarrying etc. I can't imagine. Is there any truth in his being the author?Any info much appreciated..

Subject: RE: I live not where I love
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 03:46 PM

Not Henry VIII. For a concise history see ZN3048 in the broadside ballad index at www.erols.com/olsonw

Subject: RE: I live not where I love
From: Jacob B
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 04:11 PM

Here's the text the guest was referring to. It's a bit too concise for me to follow.

You loyal Lovers that are distant/ ZN3048| The Constant Lover/
Tune: Shall the absence of my Mistresse/ [By] P. L./ RB1 213 = CR 1407: Henry Gosson [Entd. Jan. 8, 1638. ZB382|. [This and N1787| expand on verses by Robert Southwell commencing "Sith my life my love was nested" which Tho. Morley extracted from a longer poem and printed with a new tune in `First Book of Ayres', 1600. Repeated with Morley's tune in Forbes' 'Cantus', 1662, 1666, 1682. Tune in Simpson, BBBM, #212 is Morley's. Yet another version starts as Morley's 1st verse then has five new ones, in 'Bishop Percy Folio MS', II, p. 325. Traditional versions, (Roud ZR593|) of this are rarely very coherent; "Farewell Lads and farewell Lasses"/ Farewell Lads/ JFSS I, 273, 1904 is one, and another is in Frank Purslow's 'Marrow Bones', p. 43, as "I live not where I love".]

Subject: RE: I live not where I love
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 04:25 PM

I had already recorded an "English Civil War" version given to me by the lady from whom Norma Waterson got "My Willie sailed on the tender/ Bay of Biscay" and believed to have been handed down orally in a garrison town in Ireland, when I found that it was actually a version written by Gregg Butler of Strawhead for a Civil War album which had somehow found its way onto a flyer sold at a fleadh before Strawhead had recorded it. It was still quite interesting to see what the folk process had done to the song - because we took the title of our CD (Dark the Day) from one line, and then discovered that the line had been changed from "through dark or day".

Heigh ho

Kitty

Subject: RE: I live not where I love
From: nutty
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 07:06 PM

There are a number of broadsides of the song in the Bodleian Library.
The one below, circa 1820, is titled Young Thomas but the song also appears as The Constant Female as well as I Live Not Where I Love

CLICK HERE

Subject: RE: I live not where I love
From: Snuffy
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 07:31 PM

There are 2 versions in the DT. This one I LIVE NOT WHERE I LOVE (2) was submitted by Bruce Olson and has a note at the end:

original version attributed to Martin Parker, c1630s.

WassaiL! V

Subject: RE: I live not where I love
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 02 - 09:36 PM

After having compared traditional versions with the two broadside versions more carefuly, I think traditional versions stem from P[eter] L[owberry]'s version more likely than from Martin Parker's

Subject: Lyr Req: I love not where I live - Derek Brimston
From: Klavdivs
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 04:39 PM

can anyone supply the words to this parody, which Derek B used to sing, and very possibly wrote since it's his style. ta

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I love not where I live - Derek Brimston
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 07:58 PM

The mind boggles.
This, I have to hear ....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I love not where I live - Derek Brimston
From: Sorcha
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 09:18 PM

I thought it was 'live not where I love' but I will look. Old Country song....

Subject: Lyr Add: I LIVE NOT WHERE I LOVE
From: Sorcha
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 09:22 PM

Well, here is 'Live Not Where I Love'....don't know if it is the right one...

I LIVE NOT WHERE I LOVE
Songwriter: Traditional
^^^
Lyrics:
O Come all ye maids who live at a distance
Many's a mile from off your sway
Come and assist me this very moment
For to pass away some time
Singing sweetly and completely
Songs of pleasure and of love
For me heart is with him altogether
Though I live not where I love

When I sleep I dream about you
When I wake I take no rest
Every moment thinking on you
My heart o'er fixed in your breast
But although far distance
May be of assistance
If from my mind your love remove
For me heart is with him altogether
Though I live not where I love

All the world shall be of one religion
All living things shall cease to die
If ever I should prove false to my jewel
Or any way his love deny
Oh the world shall change
And be most strange
If from my mind your love remove
For me heart is with him altogether
Though I live not where I love

So farewell lad and farewell lassies
Now I think I've made my choice
I will away to yonder mountain
Where I think I hear his voice
And if he hollows I will follow
Around the world though it is so wide
For young Thomas he did promise
I should be his lawful bride

Repeat first verse.

http://www.mary-black.net/disco/songs/48.htm

I am pretty sure I have the other, old country, on LP somewhere..I will look.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I love not where I live - Derek Brimston
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 09:28 PM

Sorcha, darling, sweet of you to take the trouble, but what we are eagerly anticipating is the parody to Mary Black's song, as composed (presumably) by the inimitable Derek Brimstone

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I love not where I live - Derek Brimston
From: MartinRyan
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 07:37 AM

I see it listed on a Sid Kippper album.....

'Nuff said.

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I love not where I live - Derek Brimston
From: Fran
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 01:14 PM

Les Barker has written one called "I live not near the louvre" sung by Eileen McGann o the "Tubular Dogs Album

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I love not where I live - Derek Brimston
From: a gud ole bwoy
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 06:46 AM

Now e might a dunt it, but I dunt recon e did it, 'cos it e used tu loike singin the original words fur that ballud.On his early LP's he alwus 'ad the proper words, but then acourse yer never know wi Derek Brimston the things e comes out with.
Souds loike a Kipper song tu me un all.
Cherio

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I love not where I live - Derek Brimston
From: Gurney
Date: 13 Dec 03 - 04:44 AM

Refresh, just in case someone who knows it missed it....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I love not where I live - Derek Brimston
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Dec 03 - 01:02 PM

some info here
This organisation may be able to get it for you (if you want it) if you can't find it anywhere else

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I love not where I live - Derek Brimston
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Dec 03 - 06:30 PM

Eeeeh. Sorry, Wellsy. Put a sensible request in and all you get is pratts giving you the original words or telling you that Derek Brimstone is Sid Kipper...

I am a pillock as well coz I can't give you the words either but at least I know what you are talking about. My favourite tale of Dereks is of his Granddaughter winning the prize for the most unusual pet at the village summer fete.

A tin of sardines...

Perhaps someone with more than half a brain will respond with the words you actualy asked for? :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I love not where I live - Derek Brimston
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 13 Dec 03 - 07:19 PM

DtG, I suggest that you may have looked upon the wine when it was red tonight (or the beer when it was brown) and might like to reconsider one or two parts of your post in the cold light of day ....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I love not where I live - Derek Brimston
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Dec 03 - 05:48 PM

Hehehehe - Me, imbibing of such evil concoction? Never! I just get cheesed off with people providing 'useful' information occasionaly. I tend toward the pedantic at times but surely no court in the land would find me guilty in this case?

The original question.

can anyone supply the words to this parody, which Derek B used to sing...

Followed by answers...

1. I Live Not Where I Love. Songwriter: Traditional

2. I see it listed on a Sid Kippper album.....

3. Souds loike a Kipper song tu me un all.

I rest my case m'lud. Or is it m'cloud...;-)

Cheers

Dave the Pedant

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I love not where I live - Derek Brims
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 14 Dec 03 - 07:22 PM

OK, DtG, no useful information from me on this one. This is because I laughed too much to take in enough of the lyrics to make it worth posting them.

Perhaps Wellsy could try contacting Derek Brimstone here.

(Which is not actually working, doh! I got it from Folk Roots which does give other means of contact though).

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I love not where I live - Derek Brimston
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Dec 03 - 07:30 PM

Eeeeeh, Countess. Wait till we meet at the Bolton Abbey to Keld 'Gypsy' walk. We can see what other means of contact means...

I am stll not fit enough btw...

Can you help?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I love not where I live - Derek Brims
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 14 Dec 03 - 07:41 PM

No. I met up with Carol Pegg recently and meant to ask her about your credentials...if you have any, that is.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I love not where I live - Derek Brimston
From: vectis
Date: 14 Dec 03 - 08:14 PM

Oh dear Dave TG
It just goes to prove that IT runs in the family
Yea unto the third generation...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I love not where I live - Derek Brimston
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 03:37 PM

It just goes to prove that IT runs in the family???

Noses run in my family! Whatever else can you be suggesting? Three generations back my Great Grandfather, who for some reason looked like Rasputin and was once hit on the head with an axe, begat my Grandad who turned out to be a Russian Orthodox priest. He was alcoholic and died of a smoking related disese. I could tell you one or two things about my Dad as well but he may get to hear of it...;-) See! Nothing wrong with my family.

And, Countess, Carol doesn't have my credentials but Bob just sent me a very nice CD of his show about wolves.

Hmmmm. Wonder is there any significance in that;-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: Lyr Req: I love not where I live - Derek Brimston
From: Klavdivs
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 09:09 AM

This thread seems to have meandered into a backwater. DaveGnome, Countess Richard et al. - please do your diverting in another place.

I was the original inquirer, and am still looking for " I LOVE NOT WHERE I LIVE". Have tried the suggested links to the Kippers./ Seems that they might indeed have written it, but I've found no lyrics.

Bon Noel a tout le monde.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I love not where I live - Derek Brims
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 09:46 AM

Well, cheers Wellsy. I take it you haven't yet pursued the contact details to Derek Brimstone via Folk Roots that I posted earlier?

Meanwhile, you could do a lot worse than investigate the Pegg's back catalogue. This is no diversion but a useful recommendation.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I Love Not Where I Live (Derek Brimstone)
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 31 May 09 - 08:52 AM

I was listening to June Tabor and Maddy Prior singing the original, and thought it was about time this thread was refreshed.

has Derek's/Sid Kipper's/Les Barker's parody been recorded in the intervening six years, or can anybody post the lyrics ?

Subject: Lyr Add: I LOVE NOT WHERE I LIVE
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 31 May 09 - 09:01 AM

I should have done some Googling prior to posting ...

I LOVE NOT WHERE I LIVE

Come all you maids that think to marry,
And live constant with your swine;
Let me advise you this very moment -
Think again and change your mind.

Quite besotted, I got knotted,
Ignoring the advice my mother give;
Oh, wedding bells rung me to hell,
And now I love not where I live.

I should have heeded those who pleaded,
Those who said it would not work;
That night I went to bed a bride,
Next morning woke up with a jerk.

Then he roused, while I still drowsed,
And tackled me most primitive;
So quickly wedlock turned to deadlock,
And now I love not where I live.

Oh I thought Thomas had such promise,
He was handsome, dark and rich,
But the world have changed and seems most strange,
Since I got spliced and found the hitch.

I struck my match, then saw the catch,
Now I've leisure to mis-give;
For consummation's my damnation,
And now I love not where I live.

Until I met a scribe this morning,
While my swine lay wallowing;
As my tormentor was still yawning,
I this man was following.

In his rooms we two did spoon,
But here I'll close my narrative,
For he has penned a happy end,
And now I love, not where I live.




Copyright Chris Sugden, 2002



I assume Chris Sugden must be known to a few Mudcatters ?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: I Love Not Where I Live (Derek Brimstone)
From: breezy
Date: 31 May 09 - 10:44 AM

aka Sod Kopper

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 May 21 - 07:33 PM

Joe - needs cleanup

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 20 May 21 - 06:33 AM

I have to say I hadn’t come across these parodies before, so my 2018 treatise on home improvements wasn’t as original as I had previously imagined.

THE CONSTANT TROUBLE

Come all ye tradesmen, whatever distance,
Many a tile’s come off of my roof;
Come and assist me repair my fixtures,
Even the guttering’s now come loose.
And my street drain’s blocked completely,
All the house now really whiffs;
Once our house was all together,
Now I love not where I live.

Our main power’s down, I know not why now,
Could be that wiring I renewed;
My best I’ve tried though at DIY now,
Ensured reef knots are only used.
First the Hoover, then Zanussi
Burst in flames before fuse tripped,
Reduced our kettle to molten metal,
So I love not where I live.

They won’t insure us since the stove explosion,
I took up plumbing to save on costs;
With boiler broken the pipes got frozen,
Our only water as the fridge defrosts.
When pipes thawed out the water poured out,
My painted stop tap failed to twist;
Our water meter then overheated,
So I love not where I live.

I tried the mains valve with wrench and crowbar,
The nut’s now smooth as the dome of St Paul’s,
Beneath our home there’s a gaping void there,
Caused by our own Niagra Falls.
Where it flooded lounge and study,
Our floorboards are wont to give,
Round walls we belay on ropes in relay,
So I love not where I live.

My track record’s one long disaster,
It all started when putting up shelves;
In Nextdoor’s larder I dislodged the plaster,
Why can’t machines behave themselves?
First the strimmer, then hedge trimmer,
Like our Polo, refused to shift;
Whilst it lingers down the sinkhole,
So I love not where I live.

I’d seek advice, but it’s not that easy,
Communications are far from fine;
Can’t use the keyboard on our dusty PC,
I cleaned the keys with turpentine.
Our chimney fire sent phones haywire,
Left our landline fully stripped;
Now we pick up broadcasts as each plane roars passed,
So I love not where I live.

My home life’s not quite as I fancied,
I’ve not eaten these last weeks;
Meat in the Samsung’s all gone rancid,
No garden veg since the oil tank leaked.
The Wife’s left home now and the dog’s gone roaming,
Now there’s Winter’s icy grip;
I’m left alone here to catch pneumonia,
And I love not where I live.

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 20 May 21 - 07:53 AM

O Come all ye maids who live at a distance
Many's a mile from off your swain
Come and assist me this very moment
For to pass away some time
Singing sweetly and completely
Songs of pleasure and of love
For me heart is with him altogether
Though I live not where I love

When I sleep I dream about you
When I wake I take no rest
Every moment thinking on you
My heart o'er fixed in your breast
But although far distance
May be of assistance
If from my mind your love remove
For me heart is with him altogether
Though I live not where I love

All the world shall be of one religion
All living things shall cease to die
If ever I should prove false to my jewel
Or any way his love deny
Oh the world shall change
And be most strange
If from my mind your love remove
For me heart is with him altogether
Though I live not where I love

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 May 21 - 06:08 PM

I heard it referred to on mudcat as a Victorian parlour ballad.
I believe its in the repertoire of the Copper Family.
Derek Brimstone probably got it from Maddy. He was guitarist front/chat man for her first little group when she was 17 or so - he told me.
Whilst Derek had a very eclectic approach to folk music,   I think he liked revival/professional folksingers better than roots/primary source type renditions.

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 22 May 21 - 07:49 PM

Sung by Robert Barratt Puddletown Dorset to the Hammond Brothers in 1905. He had throat cancer and could only whisper the tune. He managed, somehow to communicate 50 odd songs.
The song was included in 'Marrowbones' by Frank Purslow. It was taken up by Fin and Eddie Fury who had an LP called I live Not Where I Love, and then a raft of Irish singers, who seemed to believe it was an Irish song, turned it into something it never was.
It first appeared as 'The Constant Lover' in 1638. Then filtered down through numerous Broadside printers in the nineteenth century.
It may have been originally written by one Peter Lowberry. The tune is not as old as the words (I think) and seems to have been prevalent in the West Country. Sharp found a fragment in Somerset, but nowhere else.
Roud 593 will give any other versions. The tune is fairly obviously an art music composure, but none the worse for that. It is a testament to the quality of both tune and words that it survived until the early part of the 20th Century virtually unchanged since
William Chappell 'Popular Music of Olden Times' Vol 2 Page 451-3 printed it c.1855, with a very similar tune.
That's the best I can do, hope it helps.
Nick

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 May 21 - 02:03 AM

i read somewhere that it originally had many more verses 40? in my opinion it is a beautiful song,

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: Reinhard
Date: 23 May 21 - 02:22 AM

Al, I don't know of any Copper Family recording of I Live Not Where I Love, and it is not in the Copper Family Song Book.

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 23 May 21 - 02:48 AM

The line 'I live not where I love' was a familiar line from the work of, Robert Southwell 1595. Pitts rewrote the text into seven verses of four lines. This version is the older and most common. Forty verses?, not to my knowledge. The Copper's did not sing it. Pity in one respect, I imagine the glee club style of singing would have touched upon the song sometime in its history.

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 May 21 - 03:35 AM

I am sure my information is correct , i am sure i read this in the notes of one of the collections.
could a moderator remove the parodies and start a seperate thread, please, they are not relevant.

---

Hi, Dick - I reorganize the best messages and lyrics into an "origins" thread when I feel the time is right. But people have been posting parodies to this thread since 2003. You will note that nobody had posted to this thread from 2009 until this month, when I posted a reminder to myself that this thread needed cleanup.
I haven't seen enough information posted to come up with a credible cleanup yet, so I'll just let it run.
I see that you posted an unsourced version that Sorcha had posted in this thread in 2003. We really don't need the same post twice in one thread, so I deleted your copy of Sorcha's post. At least Sorcha said she got the lyrics from Mary Black's Website. You deleted that part. Mary Black lyrics are notoriously inaccurate.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 23 May 21 - 07:35 AM

Not sure where the 'Many's the mile from off your sway' came from but I have always known it as many's the mile from off your swain....... a swain being a young lover. Sway does not seem to make sense.

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 May 21 - 08:51 AM

correct it is swain

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 23 May 21 - 09:06 AM

Could you give me the source Dick. Has the song been published elsewhere than 'Marrowbones'. I would love to read the notes.
Swain also means a country youth in archaic English, which once again underlines the Art music derivation, not that the song is diminished in any way.

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: RTim
Date: 23 May 21 - 09:41 AM

Steve Gardham's - Earliest versions spreadsheet has it as early as 1638 - a Broadside printed in London by Gosson, with an reference of Roxburghe Ballads, BL C.20.f.7 68-69 as primary source (and Roud 593)

So pick the bones out of that....:-)

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 23 May 21 - 02:34 PM

Thanks Tim. Didn't realise it was in Roxburgh. I've got them in PDF so I'll take a look.

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: RTim
Date: 23 May 21 - 02:43 PM

I have also looked in the Bodleian Ballads Online where is can be found on several broadsides, often called "Dear Thomas". (still only 4 verses)......And most interestingly there is also - "I am now living where I Love" - The answer to "Live not where I love".

See the link below:
http://ballads.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/static/images/sheets/10000/07035.gif


Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 23 May 21 - 07:57 PM

I believe there was an answer which ended up on a broadside, and extended the song to 16 verses of eight lines. 32 quatrains which is maybe where Dick got the 40 verse idea from. There are two sets of notes. One in Marrowbones one and the other in the republished version.
I would still like to know a bit more about the tune. Dorset and Hampshire seemed to hold some interesting and unique melodies. 'Bonny Kate' is a good example A-A-B-C, most unusual for a folk song. There is a clue in the words with a Cant word dating from c.1811 in the text. Unfortunately no such help in I live not where I Love other than the aforementioned 'Swain'. I've always loved the song. Gerry Milne always used to dedicate it to his local pub. Wonder if he's still singing (or drinking).

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 May 21 - 03:16 AM

the "idea" of mine . was not the sort of thing i imagined , it was not an answer, however trying to locate it will probably be difficult

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 24 May 21 - 04:11 AM

I hope you find the details Dick, and can post them here. Just to help were the details in a songbook or an article. How old was the publication? Any idea who wrote them? You've got me interested. I'll do a bit of digging as well.

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 24 May 21 - 07:08 AM

More help. There are 52 entries in Roud. Including Reeves 'Everlasting Circle' which I have not got. Could be in there?

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: Reinhard
Date: 24 May 21 - 08:09 AM

Reeves Everlasting Circle' has the version collected by Hammond from Mr Barrett in Dorset that is also printed in Roud, Upton & Tayor, "Still Growing"

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 24 May 21 - 11:59 AM

Thanks Reinhard. The tune in 'Still Growing' has a variable seventh, which I had not noticed before.

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 24 May 21 - 12:14 PM

Hi Nick
'Swain' is certainly old, but more to the point, it's poetic, high-flown. Holmfirth Anthem's not that old.

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 May 21 - 03:09 AM

Reinhard, you got me racking my brains locating where I got that piece of misinformation from....

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 May 21 - 07:28 AM

could it be pills to purge melancholy?

Subject: RE: Origins: I Live Not Where I Love
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 25 May 21 - 12:03 PM

Just had a look at the 'Answer' on a Pitts broadside. Rather interesting. Answers were not usually printed unless the original had been a success. It was certainly far from a success according to Roud. However it has been a resounding success since 'Marrowbones'. I even heard an Irish country version of it in Fleetwood Market.
It may well be that the song was considered to be an Art production and not noted by the early (Pre-Sharp) collectors, in the same way as Sharp ignored early Music Hall material. All speculation of course.