Guitar to Mandolin

Subject: Guitar to Mandolin
From: UB Ed
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 08:09 AM

This is somewhat terrifying...While I have played guitar for many years, I am suddenly getting the urge to learn to play the mandolin. Upon initial inquiry, I have learned its tuned the mirror image of the lower four strings of the guitar.

The question is this, beside all of the ramifications of adopting a new instrument and subsequent spending frenzy and obsession therein, do any of us play both instruments? If so, did you find it easy to learn but harder to master as you switched instruments back and forth?

Help!

Ed

Subject: RE: Guitar to Mandolin
From: GUEST,Ballyholme
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 08:34 AM

After playing guitar for 30 odd years, I decdided to take up mandolin about 18 months ago. To add to the problem, I was almost exclusively a finger picker rather than a plectrum user.

Since I play mainly Irish music, I took my lead from Andy Irvine and tuned the mandolin GDAD (low to high). Since I was used to various open tunings on the guitar, I found this mandolin tuning to be pretty easy to understand.

The main problem came when I changed from one instrument to the other. The difference in scale was staggering and it took me some time to get used to it but it comes with time. Stick at it. Mastering it is something else again.

Subject: RE: Guitar to Mandolin
From: GUEST,Den
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 08:38 AM

While not professing to be an expert on either instrument, I found the trasition to the mandolin not that difficult. I actually found the instrument fairly easy to learn and a lot of fun to play. In terms of the feel of it, if you have large fingers you might find it a little tricky. I'm sure someone will be along to explain the theory much better than I can. For what its worth give it a go and have fun.

Subject: RE: Guitar to Mandolin
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 09:05 AM

guitar playing will help your mandolin learning...

...and learning the mandolin will help your guitar playing.

I had trouble at first. All the time I spent trying to learn seemed for naught as I'd forget everything a day later.

Then, suddenly (and for no apparent reason) it started to stick. Now I can learn fiddle tunes at least as fast on the mandolin (they're logically laid out as the mandolin is a fiddle with frets *grin*).

You'll learn intervals like never before.

It'll open doors to playing with others.

Yes, the tuning is an upside down upper half of the guitar -- and that can be handy if you lose your way.....at first. But soon you'll be thinking on the mandolin and seeing the chord patterns on their own.

Chord theory is so much simpler with only four strings.

Just do it.

Subject: RE: Guitar to Mandolin
From: Cluin
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 09:08 AM

I play both and switch back and forth several times during a set and sometimes mid-song. It's not that difficult to learn at all. I was early mid-30s twhen I picked up the mandolin.

And I just use the regular mandolin tuning GDAE. It's easier to find the scales since the strings are tuned in 5ths like the fiddle. Now if I'm improvising a solo I actually prefer the mandolin, both for the ease of getting around in a particular scale and the higher notes cutting through better. Of course the higher tension double strings pretty much preclude any string bending techniques.

The toughest thing about it is the smaller scale like Ballyholme says. Sometimes mt long fingers get pretty cramped up on top of each other, but it just takes a bit of practice and thinking about your technique to avoid problems.

Check out the Mandolin Cafe for some excellent tips and lessons.

Subject: RE: Guitar to Mandolin
From: mooman
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 10:19 AM

I've been playing both for the past 40 years and interchange freely. I think once you get used to it, you'll have no problem at all. Chords and scales are somewhat more logical on mandolin than a normal tuned guitar. The difference in scale length is a shock at first but easy to get used to. I have fairly large hands and a guitar with custom wide neck but my mandolin has a fairly narrow neck and its no real problem in changing.

I wouldn't necessarily say one is easier than the other at the highest levels of skill...both have their particular challenges and techniques, but both are great fun to play and the essentials of the mandolin are fairly easy to pick up.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: Guitar to Mandolin
From: Leadfingers
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 10:37 AM

I started on Guitar with folk (having played Jazz on clarinet and sax)then got into Banjo when working with another guitarist. It seemed a natural progression to move to Mandolin as well, and has not been a problem for me,except that I do like a fairly wide neck on Mandolin (and Banjo if it comes to it) as I have fairly wide finger ends. The main advantage was that having to use a flatpick on the Mandolin I can now do a basic flatpick on Guitar as well. Goog luck any way and HAVE FUN.

Subject: RE: Guitar to Mandolin
From: clansfolk
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 11:18 AM

play most stringed instruments and like others change from one to the other during the sets

Mandolin is a great instrument which I found easy to learn (but not to Master!)

Have a go you'll enjoy every minute

Has anyone tried a twelve string guitar tuned to double Nashville Tuning - it struck me the other day when playing a standard tuned 12 string with a partial capo - I thought the lead runs in the open tuning would sound like a mandola in double Nashville

Subject: RE: Guitar to Mandolin
From: GUEST,Joe Correli
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 11:56 AM

Try to forget about the guitar whilst playing the mandolin, stick to its natural tuning, persevere with the reduced finger board space, treat the plectrum with a delicate touch, learn the scales(especially D,G A and F)and if the instrument is an oysterback, get comfortable.
If you give yourself time and apply yourself to learning before trying to short cut and give less than competent renditions you will reap the rewards of good schooling.

Subject: RE: Guitar to Mandolin
From: Cluin
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 12:09 PM

Yep, check out the Mandolin Cafe link I posted above as it has some good tips for avoiding bad habits that get in the way of good playing and can cause physical problems. Might as well start on the right foot.

Subject: RE: Guitar to Mandolin
From: Steve-o
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 12:13 PM

I agree with all previous advice- I found that my fair competence on guitar helped immensely with learning the mandolin. Maybe one of those "beginner" courses on Homespun Tapes would get you starting out doing stuff correctly, which I wish I had done. My only tip is: don't even think about a bowl-back mandolin- they are evil devices that slide all over your lap!

Subject: RE: Guitar to Mandolin
From: GLoux
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 12:17 PM

In terms of starting, this may sound obvious, but try learning to play chords for things that you can play on guitar.

Subject: RE: Guitar to Mandolin
From: CraigS
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 05:52 PM

It may be useful to know that ADAE is a good tuning for blues. The thing I like most about mandolin is that Leadfingers playing mandolin stops Leadfingers playing his banjo (ITS A JOKE, TERRY).

Subject: RE: Guitar to Mandolin
From: jonm
Date: 18 Dec 03 - 03:08 AM

I discovered I could play the mandolin by accident. I'm a left-handed guitar player, so when you take a right handed mandolin and turn it upside down, you already know all the chords!

It is possible to switch between the two regularly in a set, when the higher strings are below the lower on guitar and above on my mandolin (in physical terms).

Subject: RE: Guitar to Mandolin
From: Áine
Date: 18 Dec 03 - 11:24 AM

I heartily agree with John Hardly's comment, "guitar playing will help your mandolin learning......and learning the mandolin will help your guitar playing."

I keep my mando within reach almost all the time. It's definitely a 'happy' instrument. I always played the guitar 'fingerstyle' before I started playing the mandolin; and now I'm using the plectrum more and more. And I've gotten much better at barr chords since the mandolin came along.

And I can't recommend the Mandolin Cafe site enough. The folks are great, and I've gotten some excellent advice and encouragement from the forum there.

All the best, Áine

Subject: RE: Guitar to Mandolin
From: Willie-O
Date: 18 Dec 03 - 07:15 PM

Forget you're a guitar player when you pick up the mandolin. Never mind that mirror image stuff (unless you're like jonm, I never realized that). The fingerboard logic is that of a fiddle. The right hand style is very different from either guitar or fiddle--you have to develop a mandolin right hand,learn chop, tremolo, no fingerpicking...

Get a book of fiddle tunes and try them. Almost any fiddle tune is easier to play on the mandolin than the fiddle, until you get to a certain (very fast) speed where frets and pickstrokes become obstructions. Learn the tunes single-note, then add double-stops, throw in some tremolo here and there...

Just do it, you won't regret it, they are complementary sets of abilities. And if you go to sessions, you're a more popular character if you can sense which one you should play given the circumstances of a particular set...

W-O

Subject: RE: Guitar to Mandolin
From: Mooh
Date: 18 Dec 03 - 10:51 PM

I too enjoy the mandolin cafe and highly recommend it.

The first time I tried mandolin, while in high school, I had the mistaken belief that it would be easier to tune it like the highest four strings of a guitar, ie DGBE. Dumb. It works but not near as well as in fifths. Properly tuned in fifths the notes just flow under the fingers. I abandoned it until about 15 years ago and have since been playing it as much as guitar.

I'm currently waiting for the delivery of a custom made mandocello-ish guitar. 25" scale, 4 pairs of unison strings, guitar shaped body, and I hope it will fill the gap between guitar and mandolin for me.

To answer your question though, I find playing both improves both, like others here.

Peace and picking, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Guitar to Mandolin
From: UB Ed
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 11:59 AM

Many thanks. I clearly have a lot to learn. Sure would be easier to get on a plane with a mandolin.

While I've got everyone here, what would be the difference between the A and F types? Is one better for certain applications?

Ed

Subject: RE: Guitar to Mandolin
From: Leadfingers
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 03:04 PM

Willie-O- Pardon me putting my Pedant hat but Classical Mandolin is to
my best belief mostly Finger Picking rather than Flat Pick. At least,if it is flat picked it aint half fast picking !!!

Subject: RE: Guitar to Mandolin
From: Cluin
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 06:23 PM

Simon Mayor plays his classical mandolin pieces with a plectrum.

Subject: RE: Guitar to Mandolin
From: GUEST,David Littlefield
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 09:43 AM

To start with, buy Mel Bay's book on Mandolin cords. It's a great starting point for guitar players to visually see the differences and similarities in guitar/mandolin cord structure.Scales are important but cords get you going on the instrument much more quickly. You can't bend strings but "pull offs" can be quite effective. I found I can get a Martin Carthy -like melody on the mandolin where I found it near impossible to duplicate the style on the guitar. Good Luck.    David