lloyd's lover's ghost: 77 or 248?

Subject: lloyd's lover's ghost: 77 or 248?
From: Roberto
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 07:05 AM

To everybody, but especially to Malcolm Douglas. Seeing what said on the previous thread about Sweet William's Ghost, should we consider this version (here in a A. L. Lloyd recording)to be Child number 77 or Child number 248? I think it is difficult to decide.

You're welcome home again
Said the young man to his love
I've been waiting for you many a night and day
You're tired and you're pale
Said the young man to his dear
You shall never again go away

I must go away - she said
When the little cock do crow
For here they will not let me stay
Oh, but if I had me way
Sure me dearest dear – she said
This night should be never never day

Oh, pretty little cock
Oh, you handsome little cock
I pray you do not crow before day
And your wings shall be made
Of the very beaten gold
And your beak of the silver so grey

But oh, this little cock
This handsome little cock
He crew out a full hour too soon
It's time I should depart
Oh me dearest dear - she said
For it's now the going down of the moon

And where is your bed
My dearest love? - he said
And where are your white holland sheets?
And where are the maids
Oh my darling dear - he said
That wait upon you whilst you are asleep

The clay it is me bed
My dearest dear - she said
The shroud is my white holland sheet
And the worms and creeping things
Are me servants, dear – she said
That wait upon me whilst I am asleep

Subject: RE: lloyd's lover's ghost: 77 or 248?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 08:41 AM

You really should quote Lloyd's source when asking about the song, so that we all know what we are talking about. He got this one from Patrick Joyce's Old Irish Folk Music and Songs (1909). As mentioned in a previous discussion (Lyr Req: (I Have Waited For) Many A Night And), Joyce quoted it from childhood memory. Hugh Shields, to whom I have already referred in the previous discussion (The Grey Cock: Dawn Song or Revenant Ballad? in E.B.Lyle, Ballad Studies, pp. 67-92) was suspicious of this text, wondering whether there had been some unacknowledged editorial intervention (particularly in the first verse), while accepting that the revenant, and the change of sex, were not down to Joyce (who, incidentally, wrote "my", not "me", throughout).

There may be some influence here from Fair Margaret and Sweet William (Child 74, Roud 253) which -unusually- features a female visiting revenant; David Mallet's 1724 re-write of it, a popular broadside offering, concentrates as above on the visit, and features equivalents of Joyce's verses 2 and six. There are also echoes of Proud Lady Margaret (Child 47, Roud 37) in the final verse; and of Sweet William's Ghost (Child 77, Roud 50), come to that. Further confusion arises from the fact that revenant ballads and night-visiting songs both regularly, though for different reasons, feature crowing cocks.

That is speculation, of course. Roud places this Lover's Ghost with the various Willie O, Grey Cock and other vaguely related ballads under Child 248, Roud 179. In this he follows precedent, though as I've mentioned in the past most Grey Cock examples contain no supernatural features, and the only real relationship to Willie O is the night-visiting scenario and the occasional importing of verses from Willie O into the Grey Cock.

It is largely too late to do very much about the confusion that arose in the wake of the recording of Cecilia Costello's hybrid set of Willie O/Grey Cock, I expect. For what it's worth, I'd tend to consider this one to be another hybrid, though it is more problematic and one can't really trace the various elements to obvious sources as can be done with Mrs Costello's song. As such it may be a special case: file under 248 if you need to categorise it, I suppose, but with reservations.

Subject: RE: lloyd's lover's ghost: 77 or 248?
From: Roberto
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 10:54 AM

Thank you very much. Quoting the sources: the Fellside CD (Classic A. L. Lloyd) does not contain an indication of the source. Lloyd referes the ballad to The Grey Cock, but doesn't say where he got this version from. But I rememember having read somewhere he said he got it from an Irish source, as you write. As for "me" and "my", I've told you why I prefer to write it as the singer sings it, although I understand your point. Besides, the singers who sing "me" instead of "my" don't always do that through a whole song: sometimes they say "me" and sometimes they say "my". So, what they actually sing becomes more interesting to me, and I prefer to record it, to hear in my mind, while I read, the song as it was sung. Best wishes. R

Subject: RE: lloyd's lover's ghost: 77 or 248?
From: Roberto
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 11:03 AM

I was wrong: the notes on the CD say that Lloyd got this version from P. W. Joyce. I'll pay more attention to notes in the future. R