elusive Aulos outfit - flute manufacturer

Subject: elusive Aulos outfit
From: GUEST,Crazy Little Woman
Date: 21 Jan 04 - 12:25 AM

I went to a workshop last weekend, and there a college professor gave a talk on Beginning Transverse Flute. She showed us a plastic flute that looked nice and played well, and said it was an Aulos flute costing less than $100.

Aulos is a well-known maker of instruments, not a small outfit. Yet I can't find the company on the web at all. I can't even find its full name.

I've been to our classical music store, the one that parasitizes the local conservatory. (You other Kansas Citians will know who I mean.) They don't have an Aulos catalog.

This is the honest-to-God truth. I told the Man there about the Aulos flute, and he gave me a condescending look and said, "Do you mean a recorder?" (You will have to supply the italics on the word "recorder" here, since I haven't figured out how to italicize within a post.) Grrr!

Well, if anybody can help me get in touch with Aulos to see who sells their instruments in the heartland, I would much appreciate it.

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: DADGBE
Date: 21 Jan 04 - 12:50 AM

Hi CLW,

Check out Antique Sound Workshop Ltd. and do a search on 'aulos flute'. That may be what you're looking for.

Good Luck!

Best regards,
Ray

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 21 Jan 04 - 06:21 AM

Here's a review of the Aulos Baroque single-key plastic flutes by someone who' played them - Aulos Baroque Flutes. The dark model seems to be what you want, but the price is given as around $300. They are available online from several sources, eg Woodenflute.com or The Recorder Shop (The latter has it in soft case for $234.50, but that's about as cheap as I've seen; nothing under $100).

Mick

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: GUEST,Crazy Little Woman
Date: 21 Jan 04 - 12:12 PM

It's nice to get the validation that somebody is selling something similar, but I want to talk to Aulos. As for the sellers on the net, I have never heard of them and don't know where they are. For all I know, they could take my money and never send me the flute. If I could talk to Aulos, I might find a local dealer that would let me try the flute before purchasing.

(I've already tried House of Musical Traditions and Elderly Instruments, companies I know are legit.)

So, does anybody know the full name, the nation, and possibly a website for Aulos?

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 21 Jan 04 - 12:25 PM

Have you tried Lark in the Morning?

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 21 Jan 04 - 04:13 PM

Assuming they're made by the same people as the recorders, the company is the Toyama Musical Instrument Co, Japan, and a few sites give their US representatives as:

Aulos Recorders

c/o Rhythm Band Instruments, PO Box 126
Fort Worth   TX 76101

Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]


Mick

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: GUEST,Crazy Little Woman
Date: 21 Jan 04 - 11:04 PM

Thanks, Mick. I knew they had to be somewhere.

Dave: Lark in the Morning is a good idea. I'll check with them.

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: GUEST,George
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 01:27 PM

Check WWBB (Woodwind and Brassband), the best price on the planet, got mine there.
Best wishes.
George

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 01:32 PM

My tenor-recorder/English-flute is an Aulos - click here to see and hear it.

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 01:41 PM

here, sorry.

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 04:47 PM

There is (or was) also an Aulos fife in C (same pitch as a descant recorder) - much cheaper, I paid 3 pounds for mine from a charity shop. Saunders Recorders sells (or sold) them. They work but I can't say I got very fired up about the sound.

The best cheap plastic transverse flute I know of is the Tony Dixon. The intonation isn't that wonderful in the upper register but it's easy to play with a nice tone.

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: meself
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 05:11 PM

I just bought what is, apparently, an Aulos "tenor-recorder/English-flute", as in the pic on Walkabouts' site, at a yard sale. I paid one dollar. Did I get ripped off, or did I get the deal of the century?

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 05:23 PM

Don't quote me on it, Meself, but I think at the Windows shop in Newcastle upon Tyne, England, it now costs £40 - £50 - without the C/C# key, i.e...I'm not sure if Aulos makes one with that key..? How about yours?

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 05:36 PM

Aulos made at least two different models of plastic tenor recorder. They sound roughly the same but one weighs far more (tip: the least stressful playing position for a very heavy recorder is to aim it almost horizontally - this also looks rather cool and mediaeval). I still use mine occasionally, in situations like cramped pub sessions where I don't want to bring several hundred pounds' worth of wooden tenor. They don't play the extreme upper register easily, and in particular the high A can be unresponsive.

Looking at the Tony Dixon site, the low D dual-head model costs 71 pounds, which is about what the original poster had in mind. They are far better than an Overton costing three or four times as much.

But a decent second-hand Boehm flute (like my Boosey & Hawkes Emperor) costs even less and works better for most of the traditional repertoire.

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: meself
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 07:15 PM

WV: Mine is, I believe, just like the one you are holding in that pic, without a C/C# key (that would involve a metal addition at the bottom?).

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Jun 09 - 08:01 PM

A recorder with a low C# will have two little-finger keys. The C# is not all that useful. Dolmetsch recorders usually had it. I have two tenors very much better than the Aulos - a Hopf Praetorius renaissance and a Kung rosewood baroque type - and they have only a single key, for the low C. The only commonly played folktune I can think of where you need the low C# is "The Cuckoo's Nest", played in D.

Baroque flutes are usually in D (i.e. the same as the modern C flute but missing notes below D) and often have one key, for the low Eb/D#. Quantz's book suggests a design with two keys, one for Eb and a slightly lower one for D# (i.e. for meantone tuning) I don't think that design was ever very popular and I've never played a flute like that.

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 09:10 AM

Meself - C/C# keys are also made of plastic, with a spring-back system that seems to break all too quickly (hence, I prefer a bit of a pinky-stretch for the model we both have).

"They don't play the extreme upper register easily, and in particular the high A can be unresponsive." (Jack)...the highest note in my repertoire of English hymns and folk-songs is high G, but, in agreement, when I go through the chromatic-scale it's the high A I struggle the most with. However, I find low C# easier, and use it in the hymn "O Jesus I have Promised", and my own folk-song "Fondly and Vividly".

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: meself
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 01:57 PM

Thanks for the info., gents. I know a little bit more about this instrument now ...

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Jun 09 - 04:53 PM

Recorders don't get uniformly trickier as you go higher up.

A lot of tunes derived from the fiddle repertoire go up to the high B (one where a recorder produces a much better result than a whistle is "The Old Grey Cat" - whistles will usually play the high B out of tune or with a harsh tone). The high B is easier to strike than the A below it on most recorders.

High C and D are a bit more specialized, and I there are two tunes I play that use the high E flat beyond that. The high D has an unexpected fingering but will sound easily on any recorder that can produce the A below it.

You are in for a truly interesting time with tunes that want a high C#. This is usually doable but there is no one fingering that always works. The Josephine Waltz (in A) is one tune that needs it. If I know I'm going to be doing that one I'll usually try to have a transverse flute handy.

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 05:02 AM

Oops. The Josephine Waltz is a simple Swedish tune I don't like very much. I meant the Jacqueline Waltz, a terrific musette waltz by the Scottish accordion player Will Starr.

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 06:39 AM

I'm reasonably satisfied with my Aulos recorders. I've got a sopranino, a soprano and an alto and I've bought Aulos sopraninos for two of my recorder students (that is, I bought them, their parents paid for them). I did have to return two of the sopraninos because I wasn't satisfied with the way the foot fit onto the middle joint. However, the wholesaler replaced them without any trouble, except that I had to wait.

A dollar for a working Aulos tenor recorder with no serious damage that affects playing is a good deal.

However, a few weeks ago I played a very nice (and expensive) wooden tenor recorder in a music store and since then I've been wanting better recorders. Plastic recorders are very useful and practical and I wouldn't be without mine, but I think in the long run they are unsatisfying for people who are serious about playing.

If I could afford it, I would buy one of the modern recorders with an extended range and with characteristics that recorders based on historical models don't have. However, they're quite expensive.

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 08:53 AM

I've enjoyed hearing a sopranino, Piers, but my own fingers are not small enough.
Also, I think I read somewhere that the original aulos was an ancient Greek double-pipe.

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Jun 09 - 09:39 AM

More folk recorder, while we're at it. I have just discovered a few YouTube videos various tourists have taken of me over the last year. The sound quality ranges from shite to unspeakable, but they do give an idea of the Sandy Bells atmosphere and what I'm trying to do there.

pipe jig set
Felix Burns tune
Barrowburn Reel
Reel Beatrice

I have a CD of Bartok's wax cylinder recordings. I'd rather have had him as a sound engineer.

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: Rowan
Date: 16 Jun 09 - 02:20 AM

I've got a sopranino, a soprano and an alto and I've bought Aulos sopraninos for two of my recorder students (that is, I bought them, their parents paid for them).

I'm a little confused about terminology here. In Oz, the terms for recorders (in increasing length) is glock-klein, sopranino, descant, treble, tenor, bass, great bass and contrabass; the tonic for each (again, from the shortest down, and omitting lower case conventions) is C, F, C, F, C, F, C, F. I confess I've not seen the first- (apparently so short you need to be very young to fit your fingers on the holes) or last-mentioned.

While many makers are available, plastic Aulos instruments have a good reputation for fairly good tone at cheap prices. Beginners around here start (usually in primary school) on the descant and, as their fingers get older and larger, progress to trebles. Recorder teachers around here tend to get those junior students who want to get more serious (usually as members of ensembles) to upgrade from the cheapest Aulos (cream coloured. around $11 AUS) descants to the next Aulos model up (a dark brown model where the descant sells for ~$40 AUS). Most who go on to playing tenors usually can afford only the equivalent brown Aulos model and the ones I've seen have two "split" keys for the bottom notes (C/C#), as kids' fingers can't extend that far. The usual advice for kids playing tenors (and the larger instruments) is to use a neck strap, which requires a bit of superglue in the case of the Aulos instruments, as elevating them (as Jack recommends) without the strap can be too tiring. I don't think I would contemplate such modification on a good timber instrument.

However, a few weeks ago I played a very nice (and expensive) wooden tenor recorder in a music store and since then I've been wanting better recorders. Plastic recorders are very useful and practical and I wouldn't be without mine, but I think in the long run they are unsatisfying for people who are serious about playing.

Most of the really serious kids eventually convince their parents to follow Jack's recommendations for descants and trebles but the local Recorder Society lends good quality wood instruments for the other models; sopraninos are not widely enough called for to warrant one for the kids and the tenor, bass and great bass are rather expensive unless the offspring is super serious; I imagine a good wood contrabass would be extremely expensive.

But this has little to do with the original question about plastic Aulos transverse flutes; sorry 'bout that but I got carried away, 'cos daughter #2 falls into the "super serious" category but, although she has a beautifully toned wood descant and treble, a timber tenor is (currently) beyond my reach. She played (and vocalised) "Schrijn (by Nicola Spahn) on her plastic Aulos tenor to great effect at our most recent eisteddfod.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: Jack Campin
Date: 16 Jun 09 - 05:18 AM

The smallest size is a garklein. I've got one (wooden, made by György Bán in Budapest) and can just play it, though I need to keep in practice - there is no room to spare at all. (I have average-sized hands).

soprano = descant, alto = treble.

Another trick to supporting a tenor: cross your legs with one foot on the other knee and sit the end of the recorder on that foot. (I have on one occasion started to do that when wearing a kilt - oops).

A neckstrap doesn't usually take the weight in a useful place, but good luck with it if it works for you.

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 16 Jun 09 - 08:41 AM

To finish the less-than-gripping story of the Aulos flute:

I ordered such a flute from Rhythm Band Instruments (see upthread.) After a while they told me they didn't have one in stock and that it would be months till they had any.

By that time, I was asking myself two questions:

1. Do I really need another instrument?

2. Is there something wrong with these flutes - in that the maker seems to have so little interest in them?

I cancelled the order, and that was that.
======
Nonetheless, I'm happy that this thread is bringing reocrder players together.

Meself, I think you got a wonderful buy. I've seen lots of people playing Aulos plastic tenors at workshops for serious players.

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 16 Jun 09 - 03:01 PM

Sorry, I forgot that the terms "soprano" and "alto" aren't used in English for recorders.

My hands are average-sized and I don't have any trouble with the sopranino. Usually (or perhaps always), the holes on the garklein ("extremely small" in ye olde German) are offset to one another, so that one doesn't need tiny fingers.

In my opinion, Aulos plastic recorders are a good value for the money. Yamaha has comparable plastic recorders at the low end of the price range.

I probably wouldn't buy any plastic tenor recorder because they're just too expensive. I'd rather spend the money on a wooden descant or treble recorder or some other instrument. Beyond the instruments for beginners, recorders are no longer cheap in comparison with other instruments. A modern recorder I'd really like to have costs 2000 euros. However, for a school recorder ensemble, it may only be possible to buy plastic tenor and bass flutes.

My local music store has a used silver-plated transverse flute for 135 euros, which I may buy, if and when I can afford it. A low-end wooden treble recorder that I have my eye on costs about 200 euros new in pearwood --- the same model in other woods is more expensive and depending on the wood, much more expensive.

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 16 Jun 09 - 03:34 PM

The three-year-old sister of my music students wanted music lessons, too, so I gave her the choice of a sopranino or a G penny-whistle (she was allowed to try the larger recorders and whistles, too, but they were all too big). Finally, I realized that the sopranino would be perfect for the six-year-old, who had been having trouble with her descant (took me long enough). That meant that the eight-year-old needed a sopranino, too, because she's very good about teaching the others. Unfortunately, the six-year-old and the three-year-old seem to have lost interest in music lessons, at least for the present.

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: Rowan
Date: 16 Jun 09 - 07:21 PM

The smallest size is a garklein.

Thanks for the correction, Jack; I was relying on phonetics from someone who wasn't sure of the proper spelling.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit
From: GUEST,knklwht
Date: 04 Jul 09 - 02:19 PM

If the flute was under a hundred dollars it was probably, a recorder and not a traverse flute. The two Aulos models, both copies of museum instruments made by 18th c. instrument makers, the Grenser and the Stanesby, cost around $450 and $550, respectively. The Grenser is a= 440Hz and the Stanesby is a=415Hz (period pitch). I don't know of a baroque traverse flute (playable) under $275. A note of caution: the flutes from cheaper sources haven't been revoiced (tuned by an expert instrument repairer) - ABSOLUTELY necessary for these flutes - or you'll regret it! You'll either have continual troubles fighting "wolf" notes or have to pay the $50 to $100 dollars to do the job later.
The least expensive flute the glossy Grenser is not longer being made by Aulos.

Mark Konkel-White, DMA

Subject: RE: elusive Aulos outfit - flute manufacturer
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 24 Apr 10 - 09:04 AM

Hello to you, too. Ribstoobrepep. Life can be fascinating here. Sometimes less than copesetic. But it sure beats computer games.