Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan

Subject: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: John Hardly
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 12:29 PM

I'm wondering if any of you use the chords that Russ Barenberg used when recording Ashokan Farewell (specifically on the recording "Best of Fiddle Fever").

I have the "straight" chords, and I can take the time to sit down with the recording and figure out Barenberg's chords, but what's the point of posting at the mudcat if I can't hit you up for a shortcut now and again?

If I don't get a response, is anyone interested in having me post the chords once I do figure them out?

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: kendall
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 12:34 PM

Did you know that someone wrote words to this tune?

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 12:35 PM

I have seen at least 2 sets of words, IMO, both are awful. They destroy a beautiful tune.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: Louie Roy
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 12:49 PM

I have to ask the stupid question whatis the Barenberg chords?I've been backing up fiddlers on this beautiful tune for several years and this is something new.Louie Roy

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: John Hardly
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 01:02 PM

Lyrics Shmyrics, da mudcat's lousy wid 'em. *grin* (every other Ashokan thread here is about those lyrics -- I searched before askin')

Russ Bareberg is one of the finest guitar players to ever back a fiddle. If you listen very closely to recording of Ashokan with Darol Anger (on the afore mentioned "Best of Fiddle Fever") you will find a most tasteful use of alternative chords backing the fiddle. Barenberg also takes a fine, understated solo as well.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: GUEST,Joe Moran (UK)
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 03:11 PM

John Hardy, I'm pretty certain Russ backed Jay Arnger and Aly Bain when they played the tune on "The Transatlanic Sessions" TV program. I'll dig it out and see if I can figure anything out.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 03:24 PM

John Hardy, if you haven't got The Transatlanic Sessions - get them! Russ is playing guitar all over the place. And on mandolin.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 05:55 PM

The basic tune as published in Sheet Music is in D - it uses I IV V chords - D G A plus The Chord of C on that hanging note fopr teh climax in the second half.

Dat's Da Way I play it!

Robin

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: open mike
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 07:34 PM

Ashokan should be described as Jay Unger's not Russ B's
if we are establishing possession...

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: Leadfingers
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 07:39 PM

Open Mike - It is the bane of my life - people who attribute songs or tunes to whoever recorded them rather than who wrote them.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: John Hardly
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 08:16 PM

oh fer...

There was no attribution except to the performance and that was on the guitar part. So far nobody else has misunderstood that.

Find something real to bitch about.

Joe and tunesmith,

Thanks for the tip. I'll look for those recordings (the Transatlantic Sessions).

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: Cluin
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 08:24 PM

Robin,
There are many ways to back up a good fiddle tune like Ashokan. I like to use a few nice minor chords that can be substituted to good effect. The interplay between fiddler and accompanist makes or breaks the tune.

Chord progression I use with my fiddlin' friend (since nobody posted any chords yet).

  |D   |F#m |G   |Em  |D   |Bm  |G   |A A7|
  |D   |F#m |G   |Em  |D   |Bm  |A   |D A7|
  
  |D   |Bm  |G   |D   |F#m |Bm  |A   |A7  |
  |D   |C   |G   |D   |D   |Bm  |A   |D   | 

There are also add-on notes you can fret with some of the chords to help the guitar and fiddle sound more in sympatico too. The more you play it, the more you can find and the more you might want to leave out to keep things tasteful (for lack of a better word). Somewhere down the line, you and the fiddle may find you've changed things to some extent, but that's alright too. That's part of what makes a great tune worth doing, IMO. Another reason everybody likes doing Ashokan Farewell.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 08:34 PM

Cluin,

Those chords may work well on a guitar, but I play currently mainly the piano accordion, and some of those chord jumps are far beyond where I can handle yet - the Major & Minor chords for the same keynote are together, and the relative minors are quite a stretch apart...

D Maj to F#Min --> across 4 rows to the right & up one
then to G Maj back 5 rows & down one (G is to the left of D)... :-)

Looks interesting though, and the more you practise the hard stuff, the better you get at it... fitting in those Maj/Min jumps is something I should practise more... :-)

The version I do uses Keyboard wobble to get a vibrato effect...

The three most important words for musicans...

Practice, Practice, Practice... :-)

Robin

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: Cluin
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 08:52 PM

The nice thing about keyboard accompaniment is the ability to easily alternate between inversions of the same chord to provide a more interest sound. On the guitar it means shifting your hand position up or down the neck a lot and can leave things sounding quite choppy (for most of us of less than virtuoso status). Plus some inversions, particularly those with the 3rd in the bass don't sound so harmonic on the guitar. The overtones in the bass strings can get out of hand.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 09:00 PM

Ah, but the Piano Accordion has a Stradella Bass - and the chords are fixed tp particular buttons - no inversions or choice where in scale they are placed ... of course, if accompanying someone, one can just play right hand only...

perhaps you should skim thru my Technique: Piano Accordion for The Recycled Muso

(Nothing like self promotion!)

Robin
The FoolesTroupe Songbook!

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: Cluin
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 09:05 PM

Ah sorry. Brain fart. I read piano accordion and mind mind jumped to piano. Sorry. I'll take a spin thru your thread.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: Cluin
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 09:12 PM

Anyway, John Hardly was interested in Russ Barenerg's chords and Barenberg is a guitarist. I don't know if my chords above are helpful or not in that respect, but they aren't bad.

And I agree that Barenberg's guitar work on Ashokan should be a textbook example of how to tastefully accompany a fiddle tune on a six-string. You've heard the version with Mark O'Connor and Pinchas Zuckerman from O'Connor's "Heroes" CD, haven't you, JH?

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 09:57 PM

Here's how I do it, based on Barenberg's version on the album "Songs of the Civil War" with Jay Ungar & Molly Mason & Fiddle Fever:

D / D7 / G / Em
D / D / D / A
D / D7 / G / Em
D / D / A / D

D / D7 / G / D
D / Bm / A / A7
D / C / G / D
D / D / A / D

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: Cruiser
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 10:27 PM

I would add I like to use A7sus for 2 beats just before A7.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: Louie Roy
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 10:03 AM

Barbara I use the same chords that you posted for Ashokan and if I used any other chords to back up the Fiddler in this area they would beat you over the head with their bow

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 01:28 PM

needs more B minor chords, IMHO



D / D7 / G / Em
D / Bm / Bm / A
D / D7 / G / Em
D / Bm / A / D

D / D7 / G / D
Bm / G / A / A7
D / C / G / D
D / Bm / A / D

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: John Hardly
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 02:01 PM

well, thanks for all the participation -- I'm particularly interested in Cluin's "quirkier" version. Meanwhile, I've about nailed Barenberg's chords after all.

Anyone interested in what I came up with?

By the way, Louie Roy. Tell your fiddling friends that Ashokan isn't "traditional" and its very composer chose to be accompnied by Barenberg -- definiitely not "trad" chords. *grin*

Oh, and Cluin, I borrowed a friend's O'Connor "Heroes". I know this will sound insane 'cause Mark is nearly a musical god. I don't like his take on too many things. To my ear there's a "harshness" to his tone on most instruments. I have no right to critique him so -- he really is other-worldly in his skill -- just not a match to my ear. I do love the session work he's done better than his solo recordings (love the James Taylor sessions with Flux Douglas). I still think everyone who is serious about this kind of music should own several of O'connor's recordings -- I do. It's just a matter of degree I suppose.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: michaelr
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 07:02 PM

I'm interested, John. Please share!

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: John Hardly
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 05:01 PM

I'll try to post the chords tomorrow.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: John Hardly
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 03:39 PM

This tune is in ¾. Each "/" is a beat (NOT including the chord named). Thus XX0232/// is three beats on a D chord. Of course, if you choose…

1. the voicings are close to giving you a head start toward a fingerstyle arrangement.

2. Of the three beats the first is often sounding the bass string only. Because of this, there are a few places where you will probably NOT play it that was (f'rinstance) in those few places where each of three chords in a row has only one beat.

Barenberg also substitutes a different A7 that is still eluding me. If you are too used to a Bm, the place to substitute it back in is at the X2023X chord.

XX0232///
200232///
3X0233//
3X0033/
02203X///
XX0232///
X2023X///
3X0032///
X02030//
X02020/

XX0232///
X32210///
320003///
XX0232///
X2023X///
X02220
002020
X05450
XX0232

B

XX0232///
X32210///
320033///
XX0232//////
X20230///
X02220///
3X222X///
XX0232///
X32210///
3X0003
3X0023/
3X0033/
XX0232//////
X2023X///
X02220
002020
X05450
XX0232

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 04:01 PM

Interesting chords, John.

If you want to play Ashokan as a solo fingerstyle arrangement it works much more effectively if you transpose it all into G.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: Cluin
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 04:01 PM

Like I said, more than one way to back up a fiddle tune. Everybody has (and should have) their own style.

But if any fiddler ever tried to "beat (me) over the head with their bow" and force me to play another way, he'd soon be looking for another acc... acomp... accompa... feller what plays the guit-tar. I've played with one of the best in the world and I wouldn't take it from him even. I'll take suggestions and try different things, but in the end I'll play my instrument and you play your'n.   ;)

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: GUEST,Tongue-tangled Guest
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 05:18 PM

Hey Cluin, I have an even harder time trying to pronounce Ugh-cump-ugh-nee-ist, ur, I mean ugh-cump-ugh-nist.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 31 Jul 04 - 11:45 AM

John, is there anyway you can give the chord notations (similar to Barbara's and Murray's posts)? Or if not, can you easily write down the names of the notes instead of frets? I'm not a guitar player (piano here), and I'm curious about this arrangement.

Also, do you know the names of the chords you use in an arrangement? Or do you just use combinations of notes that sound right?

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: Dave Ruch
Date: 31 Jul 04 - 02:10 PM

In the second measure, try two beats of Am7 followed by just one beat of D7, leading you to the G chord, as I have heard Molly Mason do on the guitar in backing up this tune. It's an extremely common "substitution" in jazz & swing playing, and works so well here.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: GUEST,dged
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 12:45 PM

I personally like Cluin's use of the F#m after the D for the first two "go rounds," i.e., the "A" part, and the D7 in its place on the "B" part. To me, this seems to delay resolving the change from the D to the G, which you should get in the "B" part, when the tune as a whole is resolved, to say nothing of adding a bit of harmonic drama up front. Ungar wrote the melody, and that is incontrovertible, but there are some choices for guitar backing .... IMHO.

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: bubblyrat
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 04:03 PM

I"ve been accompanying people for some time now, as well as playing the melody (plectrum, not fingerstyle ) and I am with Cluin all the way !! That"s the way to do it, no doubt about it !!

Subject: RE: Chord Req: Barenberg's Ashokan
From: GUEST,Jimoke
Date: 07 Mar 11 - 11:30 AM

Thanks Cluin and Murray!!! I like both versions!!! What a GREAT song!!!